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Old 09-26-2015, 08:42 PM   #36
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You have that exactly backwards Fenix.
As multi-weight oil warms up, it becomes MORE viscous, due to the molecules clinging together. You want oil to be LESS viscous when it is cold, so that it can flow more freely through the engine when all of the tolerances are still tight.
5 is a lower number than 30. The "weight" system works just like any other numbering system.
The first number signifies the weight of the oil when it is cold, and the second number is the weight when the oil reaches operating temperature.
You wouldn't go to the gym and call the big guy doing curls with a 30lb dumbbell a puss because he is not using the 5lb dumbbell like you are, would you?
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:25 PM   #37
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^^^WHAT HE SAID
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:31 PM   #38
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You have that exactly backwards Fenix.
As multi-weight oil warms up, it becomes MORE viscous, due to the molecules clinging together. You want oil to be LESS viscous when it is cold, so that it can flow more freely through the engine when all of the tolerances are still tight.
5 is a lower number than 30. The "weight" system works just like any other numbering system.
The first number signifies the weight of the oil when it is cold, and the second number is the weight when the oil reaches operating temperature.
You wouldn't go to the gym and call the big guy doing curls with a 30lb dumbbell a puss because he is not using the 5lb dumbbell like you are, would you?
Lol

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Old 09-27-2015, 10:40 AM   #39
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I'd honestly try a 10w or even 15w if it's leaking when sitting. Not going to hurt anything. Just can't be an idiot and start it and floor it like half the ppl I see leaving work every day...

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Old 09-28-2015, 09:21 AM   #40
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There is a bit of variance between oils as well.


As you put miles on the oil, it actually changes viscosity. That is because the lighter ends of the molecules will burn/boil away faster than the other parts. The lifespan of the additive package also plays a role in this.


Why that matters for us is that the conventional oil will more dramatically gain viscosity over its lifetime. It usually has much higher volatility than the synthetics are coming out with, and the viscosity changes about 3x faster according to most of the data I see regularly. There are some ultra-low volatility oils that I see which have extremely long lifespans due to their low volatility.


When running the same weight oil, I see more oil leaking with those ultra-low volatility oils than I see with even an average synthetic. These test I am referring to involve brand new engines running identical tests in the same room.


One reason you will see more leaking with synthetic is because the conventional oil is thicker for most of its lifespan.
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Old 09-30-2015, 06:49 PM   #41
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You wouldn't go to the gym and call the big guy doing curls with a 30lb dumbbell a puss because he is not using the 5lb dumbbell like you are, would you?
Yes, but that's an entirely different story alltogether.


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Old 09-30-2015, 07:00 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
You have that exactly backwards Fenix.
As multi-weight oil warms up, it becomes MORE viscous, due to the molecules clinging together. You want oil to be LESS viscous when it is cold, so that it can flow more freely through the engine when all of the tolerances are still tight.
5 is a lower number than 30. The "weight" system works just like any other numbering system.
Well, it's 2 different scales. Probably not a good way to phrase it. But bear with me for a moment. 30 weight is in fact thicker than 5 weight, yes. But cold 5 weight is thicker than hot 30 weight. But a hot 5 weight would be waaay thinner than 30 weight.


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Old 09-30-2015, 07:18 PM   #43
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I think that you are misunderstanding how multi-weight oil works. There is only one "scale".
A quart of 5W30 oil will flow as a 5 weight oil at room temperature. As that oil begins to warm up to the engine operating temperature (about 180), the molecules of the oil begin to attach together, and the oil becomes more viscous, or "thicker". In essence, the 5W becomes 30W when the oil is warm, and then becomes 5W again, once it cools back down to room temperature.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
I think that you are misunderstanding how multi-weight oil works. There is only one "scale".

A quart of 5W30 oil will flow as a 5 weight oil at room temperature. As that oil begins to warm up to the engine operating temperature (about 180), the molecules of the oil begin to attach together, and the oil becomes more viscous, or "thicker". In essence, the 5W becomes 30W when the oil is warm, and then becomes 5W again, once it cools back down to room temperature.

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Old 09-30-2015, 07:41 PM   #45
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Well room temperature isn't the standard but I think they get the point


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Old 09-30-2015, 07:48 PM   #46
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Lol.
I can't remember the exact test standards, or a lot of the other particulars on this subject!
It's really more information than most people need to know about oil.
Just put in whatever it says on the oil cap, change it every once in a while, and, most importantly, make sure that you never run out!
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:54 PM   #47
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Well yea that's what I'm saying. Just that as far as thickening is concerned, the 5w is thinner cold than a cold 30w. (Obviously) but when I said 2 scales, I only meant how 30w hot is thinner than 5w cold, because 5w hot is too thin it changes to 30w.

Really, I was just trying to emphasize that most people visualize 5w as an exact viscosity, rather than the properties of the oil. I know you understand it, I'm just having a crappy time trying to word it all.

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Old 09-30-2015, 08:28 PM   #48
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I think that you may still be a little confused about the weights.
The higher the number, the higher the viscosity. A hot 30W will not be thinner than a cold 5W under any circumstances. The 5W30 is thinner, or less viscous, when it is cold. As it heats up it becomes thicker, or more viscous, than it was when it was cold.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:30 PM   #49
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I'll have to research it again because that's not how I read it. I'll let you know a little later after I've read through it all again.

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Old 09-30-2015, 08:39 PM   #50
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http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/...motor-oil.html

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Old 09-30-2015, 10:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/...motor-oil.html

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Lol I saw it coming.

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Old 09-30-2015, 11:58 PM   #52
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Lol I saw it coming.

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I didn't mean to imply anything by that choice of an article. It was actually the first one that popped up on Google. I just thought that it was pretty straightforward and easy to understand. And it tells about all anyone ever needs to know about oil..
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Old 10-01-2015, 03:40 PM   #53
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gonna beat a dead horse here for a bit, but last i heard, which was from engineers at valvoline (possibly pennzoil) that the molecules in a synthetic oil are made the same size as ones in a conventional, and pretty much debunked that myth. The best ive always figured, is that synthetic oil has more detergents in them, and clean out the cracks filled with old buidup, thus, leaks. I know one of you said that you went from castrol, to mobil 1, and back to castrol, and experienced leaks only with mobil 1. all i know is that mobil1 is slightly thinner than castrol conventional. even if they are both 5w30. but its a minimal difference. cant really explain what happened there.
Okay, Castrol GTX is sub-par in how well it maintains its viscosity. It is twice as volatile than Mobil 1, the lighter parts of the chemical makeup and the additive package are burned easier.

So when you have 1,500 miles on Castrol 5w-20, the oil in the engine has an actual viscosity of damn gear lube.

The reason you guys see more leakage with synthetic oil is because it generally STAYS at its rated viscosity way longer.

I urge more of you to look up the data on some of these oils and then just spend like 30 seconds thinking about how they might act differently in the car due to each characteristic. Idk why everybody is so fixated on Mobil 1, either. I agree it is above average in certain ways, but it is not the best in any of them.
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:27 PM   #54
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Shame. I always thought castrol gtx was a great oil. Can you link to a few of these analysis sheets? I stopped using mobil 1 for motorcraft synthetic blend 5w30, and now your saying that one isn't good. Stop crushing my dreams.

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Old 10-01-2015, 04:29 PM   #55
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Oh and btw I'm still sticking by what I said about oil gets thinner as it warms up. I'll find writeups later when I have a mouse and keyboard.

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Old 10-01-2015, 05:25 PM   #56
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Actually room temp is the standard for the first number. All oil even synthetic is molasses at 0c

I've linked before but here is a comprehensive article from the ferrari forums by Dr Ali Haas about oil. Everything you will ever need to know.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

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Old 10-01-2015, 05:50 PM   #57
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Shame. I always thought castrol gtx was a great oil. Can you link to a few of these analysis sheets? I stopped using mobil 1 for motorcraft synthetic blend 5w30, and now your saying that one isn't good. Stop crushing my dreams.

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There is nothing wrong with Castrol oil. I have used it for years without a single oil related problem.


Lol.
You have great conviction when it comes to this oil weight discussion Fenix.
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Old 10-01-2015, 05:55 PM   #58
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There is nothing wrong with Castrol oil. I have used it for years without a single oil related problem.


Lol.
You have great conviction when it comes to this oil weight discussion Fenix.
I just don't want you to take it the wrong way and think I'm mad or anything. If I keep reading and come to the same conclusion as you, then I'm okay with rolling with it.


But I'm still convinced it 5w30 flows faster when hot.

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Old 10-01-2015, 07:43 PM   #59
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Mobil1 ES came to my rescue today~
My radiator fan died, temps starting rising. My saving grace was that it happened on the road to my house.
Protection is in there somewhere. I'm glad i had it.
Drained and refilled with 5W-20 after new fan was installed. On the road again!
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:23 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=straybullitt;2296331]You have that exactly backwards Fenix.
As multi-weight oil warms up, it becomes MORE viscous, due to the molecules clinging together. You want oil to be LESS viscous when it is cold, so that it can flow more freely through the engine when all of the tolerances are still tight.
5 is a lower number than 30. The "weight" system works just like any other numbering system. [QUOTE]

Partially correct.

In cold temps, the oil acts like SAE 5 weight oil.
In hot temps, the oil acts the way that straight SAE 30 weight would act, instead of acting like straight SAE 5 weight.

Multigrade oil is indeed less viscous at hotter temps, but it is no longer acting like SAE 5 weight after it warms up. It is acting the same way that SAE 30 weight would act at that temperature, which is still less viscous than SAE 5 is in cold temps.
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:28 PM   #61
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I just don't want you to take it the wrong way and think I'm mad or anything. If I keep reading and come to the same conclusion as you, then I'm okay with rolling with it.


But I'm still convinced it 5w30 flows faster when hot.

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You are correct. It is less viscous at hot temps than it is at cold temps. The point of multigrade oil is not to literally increase viscosity with temperature. The point is to have it lose less viscosity at higher temps.

5w-30 is thinner at cold temps than straight SAE 30 weight is.
5w-30 is thicker at hot temps than Straight SAE 5 weight is.

This is a good read about it
Oil Viscosity Explained
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:44 PM   #62
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You are correct. It is less viscous at hot temps than it is at cold temps. The point of multigrade oil is not to literally increase viscosity with temperature. The point is to have it lose less viscosity at higher temps.

5w-30 is thinner at cold temps than straight SAE 30 weight is.
5w-30 is thicker at hot temps than Straight SAE 5 weight is.

This is a good read about it
Oil Viscosity Explained
I was gonna post that one, but there was another article i couldnt find that explained it in simpler terms. I found it at some point when i was reading an article from cliffyk's website talking about the negatives of 5w20.
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:49 PM   #63
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It looks like you guy's theory hinges largely on the Viscosity Index.
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:29 AM   #64
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It looks like you guy's theory hinges largely on the Viscosity Index.
It is a factor
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