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Old 12-08-2015, 01:50 PM   #1
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Stumbling startup

I've developed a stumbling cold startup. It will do it after several hours or a week or more. It turns over fine, then rpm drops down to almost stall for several seconds, then spins up to high idle. In the past, it has always had a healthy "vroom" that spins right up, so this is not right. It seems to run normal once it's warmed up.

Anybody have any ideas?

In the spring, I got a new Motorcraft IAC and the beginning of summer, a new air filter. It started up normally and ran fine afterwards, so I can't really say those are the culprits.


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Old 12-08-2015, 02:08 PM   #2
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Scan for codes.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:12 PM   #3
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Scan for codes.

So there could be some codes without throwing a CEL?


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Old 12-08-2015, 02:14 PM   #4
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Yes. Possibly.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:16 PM   #5
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Yes. Possibly.

Okay, cool. I'll do this. Hopefully there is something listed to get me started in a direction lol.


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Old 12-08-2015, 02:24 PM   #6
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I've had that happen once or twice. But I drive my car daily, so it's not sitting for too long. The RPMs went up to 1000 at start, then drop down to 500 and then I turned the key to OFF both times. Starts up completely fine the time right after it. I think I might just need a new battery
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #7
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My battery is about 2 years old. It's an O'Reilly Auto battery. Should be good, BUT if my alternator is not 100%, it might be taxing the battery. I'll check that too.


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Old 12-11-2015, 08:58 AM   #8
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Have you tried datalogging to see if anything shows abnormal??
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:18 AM   #9
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Have you tried datalogging to see if anything shows abnormal??

No, not yet. I did connect my SCT tuner and see if there was any codes. I'm not sure if that reads codes that doesn't throw a CEL. I thought I'd try anyway lol. Checked the battery and it was good. I'm going to check fuel pressure next decent day we have.


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Old 12-11-2015, 10:19 AM   #10
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No, not yet. I did connect my SCT tuner and see if there was any codes. I'm not sure if that reads codes that doesn't throw a CEL. I thought I'd try anyway lol. Checked the battery and it was good. I'm going to check fuel pressure next decent day we have.

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It reads the P1000, so I would assume so. Though, I wasn't even aware there were other codes that it'll show that doesn't show a CEL
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Old 12-13-2015, 09:22 PM   #11
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It could be a dirty Mass Air sensor. I was going to say clean the IAC but you have a new one so......
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:41 AM   #12
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Their won't be any codes if the engine light is not on , unless you have a dealership scan tool to read previous codes not stored.

If it starts fine , but the rpm drops down .. try doing a idle re-learn to set things to normal again..
But let the engine run in idle for 15 min. And again with AC on ..



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Old 12-14-2015, 01:17 PM   #13
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Their won't be any codes if the engine light is not on , unless you have a dealership scan tool to read previous codes not stored.

If it starts fine , but the rpm drops down .. try doing a idle re-learn to set things to normal again..
But let the engine run in idle for 15 min. And again with AC on ..



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There can, indeed, be active codes in the PCM without the CEL being lit.
I have seen it happen in this forum at least a dozen times.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:33 PM   #14
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No, not yet. I did connect my SCT tuner and see if there was any codes. I'm not sure if that reads codes that doesn't throw a CEL. I thought I'd try anyway lol. Checked the battery and it was good. I'm going to check fuel pressure next decent day we have.


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It will be interesting to see the results.
For the 4.6 DOHC engines, the fuel pressure should be 30-55 psi with the engine idling. With the engine off, the fuel system should hold pressure for five minutes, and lose less than 5 psi from the indicated operating pressure.
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:14 PM   #15
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P1000 is a fuse , it erases the cars memory. #20 check it

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Old 12-14-2015, 02:23 PM   #16
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There can, indeed, be active codes in the PCM without the CEL being lit.
I have seen it happen in this forum at least a dozen times.
Well yeah but they won't be current or hard codes.
They will be past codes that have been cleared.

I do this everyday at work , I know a dtc will not display if it's past , it has to be current.

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Old 12-14-2015, 02:24 PM   #17
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P1000 is a fuse , it erases the cars memory. #20 check it

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I don't have any codes at all at the moment. I just checked to see if it would read anything that might not be showing up. After I check the fuel pressure, I'll probably take it over to get scanned at a shop. It just doesn't have any other symptoms to go by.


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Old 12-14-2015, 02:26 PM   #18
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Just go to the dealer and have them do a 1 hour diag.

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:21 PM   #19
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It almost screams IAC or MAF. But as you said the IAC was just replaced, unless it's faulty, but one would think you'd have the issues sooner if it was the culprit.

As Trace said it could be a dirty MAF. Stranger things have happened. It doesn't take much effort to check and clean before taking it to the dealership. They might charge you for the diagnostic and come back with something simple like that, or worse: they cannot find a source.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:43 PM   #20
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It almost screams IAC or MAF. But as you said the IAC was just replaced, unless it's faulty, but one would think you'd have the issues sooner if it was the culprit.

As Trace said it could be a dirty MAF. Stranger things have happened. It doesn't take much effort to check and clean before taking it to the dealership. They might charge you for the diagnostic and come back with something simple like that, or worse: they cannot find a source.

Sure seems like IAC because it seems to run fine once it's warmed up. Shortly after slapping a new IAC on, I got a new air filter from JLT (whatever brand they use). I've never had an issue with the pre-oiled filters, but it makes me wonder if it was over-oiled. I'll be checking the MAF next, and go ahead and clean it. If that doesn't change anything, then I'll throw the old IAC back on and see if it repeats the symptoms.

As far as checking the fuel pressure... I've been thinking that if it was fuel related, I would experience some issues with hard acceleration and/or WOT, and I have yet to have any issues.


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Old 12-14-2015, 10:16 PM   #21
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Sure seems like IAC because it seems to run fine once it's warmed up. Shortly after slapping a new IAC on, I got a new air filter from JLT (whatever brand they use). I've never had an issue with the pre-oiled filters, but it makes me wonder if it was over-oiled. I'll be checking the MAF next, and go ahead and clean it. If that doesn't change anything, then I'll throw the old IAC back on and see if it repeats the symptoms.

As far as checking the fuel pressure... I've been thinking that if it was fuel related, I would experience some issues with hard acceleration and/or WOT, and I have yet to have any issues.


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I got one from them lying around in the garage. I too thought mine was oiled pretty heavily. It's possible some residual may be working itself onto the MAF sensor and slowly falling off as the car idles. Idk, sounds stupid but again, anything's possible.

I agree on your thoughts about it being fuel related. If the car was running lean due to poor pressure you'd notice it other than at idle when cold. Pre detonation at WOT or something,
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:26 PM   #22
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Well yeah but they won't be current or hard codes.
They will be past codes that have been cleared.

I do this everyday at work , I know a dtc will not display if it's past , it has to be current.

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A "pending" code will not trigger a CEL until whatever is causing the code occurs twice. If the malfunction does not occur two times, within a given amount of drive cycles, the CEL will remain off, and the code will disappear.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:32 PM   #23
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Sure seems like IAC because it seems to run fine once it's warmed up. Shortly after slapping a new IAC on, I got a new air filter from JLT (whatever brand they use). I've never had an issue with the pre-oiled filters, but it makes me wonder if it was over-oiled. I'll be checking the MAF next, and go ahead and clean it. If that doesn't change anything, then I'll throw the old IAC back on and see if it repeats the symptoms.

As far as checking the fuel pressure... I've been thinking that if it was fuel related, I would experience some issues with hard acceleration and/or WOT, and I have yet to have any issues.


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You are probably right about the fuel.
We just like to see everyone eliminate all of the easy and cheap things to diagnose, before we start sending you to the auto parts store to purchase random sensors that may, or may not, fix the problem.
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Old 12-15-2015, 08:37 PM   #24
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Clean the maf and also clean the throttle body good. Then do a computer reset. Bet your problem will be gone
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Old 12-15-2015, 09:36 PM   #25
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Took the cold air intake apart and cleaned the MAF. It looked fine and I didn't see signs of any excess oil from the new filter. I did all this when I got my new filter BTW. I performed the idle relearn after the new IAC as well as the new filter etc too. I left the NEG off for about 10 min while I did all this. The restart was the exact same. I am going through the idle relearn now.

Here's the startup...
http://youtu.be/G5LthVwAqN8

Listen toward the end and how it finally jumps into high idle. It's just odd that it doesn't vroom right up anymore. Makes me think there is something about to go out. A sensor or emissions module or something.


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Old 12-17-2015, 02:02 PM   #26
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I started her up yesterday and no change. I was holding out hope that the idle relearn would help.

I was thinking maybe my plugs need changed, but I did that in the spring. Plus, I would think bad plugs would show up while driving and WOT.


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Old 12-17-2015, 02:41 PM   #27
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Yeah, that is kinda strange how it does that on a cold start. It didn't seem like it wanted to try to die in the video, but the idle is pretty erratic for the first few seconds.
I suppose that another thing to check for is vacuum leaks.
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Old 12-18-2015, 01:55 AM   #28
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Yeah, that is kinda strange how it does that on a cold start. It didn't seem like it wanted to try to die in the video, but the idle is pretty erratic for the first few seconds.

I suppose that another thing to check for is vacuum leaks.

Most of the time a vacuum leak will trigger a lean or rich code ( depending on where its leaking) because the computer detects it in the narrowband and tries to compensate... It is weird its screaming iac but no telling, without a code its hard to say without being there hearing it run with the hood up and messin with it... The iac is so easy id see if they would exchange it for u, we had a problem at the shop 3 months ago where we put on 3 iacs from local parts store and they all where bad and we ended up getting one from the dealer and it never set a new code or anything, and bench testing it was how we figured it out


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Old 12-18-2015, 09:22 AM   #29
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I didn't do a vacuum leak check, but I inspected all the hoses. I feel like this is another that would probably show up during heavy acceleration. Reading thyreaper's post makes me feel good about believing that. I think it's time to plop the old IAC on and see what happens. Good thing I keep old parts that aren't toast lol.


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Old 12-18-2015, 10:43 AM   #30
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Or it might be the IAC. Lol
A failed IAC will not typically trigger a trouble code.
Without a code or something to point in the right direction, we are just taking shots in the dark.
This problem does scream IAC, and that would probably be the first part that I would replace. Just because it was recently a changed Motorcraft part, doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't at fault. Every one of these cars came with a Motorcraft IAC that has failed, or will fail, at some point.

It just makes me cringe when perfectly serviceable parts get replaced in an attempt to fix a difficult to diagnose problem.
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:04 PM   #31
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Whelp, it was the damn Motorcraft IAC !! Seriously just bought it over the summer from RockAuto. This is the second name-brand part that I have bought from them that was defective. The other was an ACDelco HVAC control module for my beater.

http://youtu.be/FT4IQy67JY0

Nice to hear a normal cold start out of Lorraine

Now where the hell should I buy my IAC from? The dealership was about $20 more, but I could deal with that. I'm worried about getting another dud.

Here's the bad IAC. Looks clean, nothing loose or damaged looking.







:crazy:


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Old 12-19-2015, 12:41 AM   #32
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Glad you got her fixed!

Why did you replace your IAC in the first place? I assume that is your old one on the car now?

You may be able to return the IAC to Rockauto under warranty. I think that most Motorcraft parts have at least a 12 month warranty.
This is the main problem with buying parts from Rockauto. If you need to return something, it can be a pain compared to being able to go down to your local auto parts store, or dealership, and getting an exchange part right away.

I'd see if Rockauto will warranty it, and send you another one, since the one that you have on your car seems to be working well.
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:28 AM   #33
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Glad you got her fixed!



Why did you replace your IAC in the first place? I assume that is your old one on the car now?



You may be able to return the IAC to Rockauto under warranty. I think that most Motorcraft parts have at least a 12 month warranty.

This is the main problem with buying parts from Rockauto. If you need to return something, it can be a pain compared to being able to go down to your local auto parts store, or dealership, and getting an exchange part right away.



I'd see if Rockauto will warranty it, and send you another one, since the one that you have on your car seems to be working well.

Yup, I have my old IAC in for now. The reason I bought a new one was that I was having occasional stalls when I would put the clutch in coasting up to stop light. The new one fixed that lol. I'll need to pick up IAC at some point.


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Old 12-19-2015, 12:33 PM   #34
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Glad you were able to get it resolved, and that it was something fairly simple.

I would return the defective one to Rock Auto and just buy one at your local stealership. It might be $20 but imo it'd be worth it if it means no more headaches, frustration and lost time.

And your sig pic is awesome. I'll have to remember to snap one like that at the track next year.
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:04 PM   #35
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Glad you were able to get it resolved, and that it was something fairly simple.

I would return the defective one to Rock Auto and just buy one at your local stealership. It might be $20 but imo it'd be worth it if it means no more headaches, frustration and lost time.

And your sig pic is awesome. I'll have to remember to snap one like that at the track next year.

Thanks! Haha my launch sucked really bad the after I took that shot. I was concentrating on getting a good pic and lost my mojo lol.


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