TR3650 Experiment - Mustang Evolution

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Old 08-08-2016, 04:34 PM   #1
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TR3650 Experiment

I have had a whining noise that has now begun to rattle in my transmission. I am almost certain it is an input shaft bearing. The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed. It is the opposite of what one would expect with a throw out bearing (I would love to have a throw out bearing that has gone bad vs a transmission problem).

I changed the fluid when I first purchased the car around March or April of this year. The fluid needed to be changed, so I could not evaluate it like I would have liked. The fluid level was not low. I am running Dextron III, which is what Ford originally called for.

Now for my experiment:
I am considering backing the car into my ramps, or pulling the shifter, and adding a bottle of Lucas Trans Fix. This will overfill the case. I am not planning to drive the car over full for long, but I am curious to know if bathing the gears and bearings in the "special sauce" of fluid and trans fix will help me locate the noise by quieting things down.

Is my idea a waste of time? I do not have any pumps to worry about. My only real harm is frothing of the fluid, or over hearing due to extra stress on the transmission as it fights to churn through the fluid.

The car is not driven far, and most of the time I am at stop signs and red lights.

Any ideas, suggestions, or comments are welcome.

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Old 08-08-2016, 08:24 PM   #2
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Any suggestions before I head out to pull my shifter and dump in some Lucus Transmission Fix?

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Old 08-08-2016, 08:46 PM   #3
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Noise going away when the pedal is pressed=TOB. It stops spinning when your foot is on the floor because the clutch is not spinning.

Also the "secret sauce" or whatever is just ppl trying anything to quiet down the problematic original 3650s that came out from 01-04. Having had a rebuilt 3650 with all the TSBs done to it, there is no need for all that stuff.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:51 PM   #4
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Noise going away when the pedal is pressed=TOB. It stops spinning when your foot is on the floor because the clutch is not spinning.

Also the "secret sauce" or whatever is just ppl trying anything to quiet down the problematic original 3650s that came out from 01-04. Having had a rebuilt 3650 with all the TSBs done to it, there is no need for all that stuff.
The noise increases with RPM, and it appears to go away in 4th. I could be wrong. The noise could be hidden by road noise after that.

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Old 08-08-2016, 10:01 PM   #5
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How does the Centerforce TOB stack up against the Ford part?

I have to admit that I am hesitant to believe I have an issue with the internals of the transmission. I cannot rule out the possibility though.

As for the transmission; It shifts like it should. The only grinding I have ever experienced was on a downshift from 5th to 4th. The grinding has only occurred a total of about three times in the four months I have owned the car. The grinding was on a downshift to pass a slower driver every time.



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Old 08-09-2016, 03:43 AM   #6
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Before over filling, run synchromesh instead of dex iii and see if that solved anything.

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Old 08-09-2016, 10:30 AM   #7
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Before over filling, run synchromesh instead of dex iii and see if that solved anything.

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I have considered that.

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Old 08-09-2016, 08:54 PM   #8
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I am almost certain I have an input bearing going out. I am not a transmission tech by any means, but something is not right.

As soon as I let the clutch move to the top to engage I get a bearing noise. In 1st through 3rd the transmission whines. In 4th gear the transmission is quiet. As soon as I change to 5th the whine comes right back.

I pulled the shifter and looked in and around the transmission for metal shavings. I did not see anything.

Just for the sake of doing it, I added a 1/4 bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix. Nothing changed in terms of noise, but the shifting actually smoothed out a bit. I am running an MGW shifter. The notchiness should be normal. Lol

So far I have only driven the car 10 miles. After about 50 miles I will drain the fluid level with the fill plug if it is over filled. If I see debris I will let you guys know.

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Old 08-10-2016, 02:16 AM   #9
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I have to wonder whether or not the pilot bearing would have a similar symptom to what I have?

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Old 08-10-2016, 11:08 AM   #10
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There's other threads about this on the forum with detail about preload on the throw out bearing, when the pilot bearing makes noise, and the general noiseless of a tr3650

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Old 08-10-2016, 12:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenixignition View Post
There's other threads about this on the forum with detail about preload on the throw out bearing, when the pilot bearing makes noise, and the general noiseless of a tr3650

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I have looked at them all as far as I know.

If you have an answer and understand the noise, I would like to hear your opinion or idea.

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Old 08-10-2016, 12:52 PM   #12
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My car is starting to make the same sounds that you have described.
The only way to know for sure what the cause is, is to remove the transmission and check the bearings. And really, both the TOB and pilot bearing should be replaced as a set any time that the transmission is removed.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:14 PM   #13
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My car is starting to make the same sounds that you have described.
The only way to know for sure what the cause is, is to remove the transmission and check the bearings. And really, both the TOB and pilot bearing should be replaced as a set any time that the transmission is removed.
I can't disagree with you there. My biggest hurdle is that I only have a set of 8" ramps to pull the car up on.



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Old 08-11-2016, 04:46 AM   #14
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As far as I can remember, tremec and ford both said that some bearing noise is normal when cold. Mine makes a weird squealing sound when I start the car and continues until the transmission gets warm. The sound disappears when I push down on the clutch pedal.
The other noise that it makes is mostly in 5th gear. I really can't describe the noise because it sounds like a grinding noise, but it definitely doesn't not sound like grinding gears. Think of the sound you hear when you drink something thru a straw and run out of drink, and it makes that noise thru the straw. Add more sound and make it deeper and louder, and that's roughly the sound it makes it 5th gear. Been doing this for 2 years or longer now. And still shifts and works just fine. So... idk really.

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Old 08-11-2016, 09:48 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by fenixignition View Post
As far as I can remember, tremec and ford both said that some bearing noise is normal when cold. Mine makes a weird squealing sound when I start the car and continues until the transmission gets warm. The sound disappears when I push down on the clutch pedal.
The other noise that it makes is mostly in 5th gear. I really can't describe the noise because it sounds like a grinding noise, but it definitely doesn't not sound like grinding gears. Think of the sound you hear when you drink something thru a straw and run out of drink, and it makes that noise thru the straw. Add more sound and make it deeper and louder, and that's roughly the sound it makes it 5th gear. Been doing this for 2 years or longer now. And still shifts and works just fine. So... idk really.

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Your description sounds worse than mine.

My noise does not go away when the car warms up. I drove 150 miles and the transmission sang the entire trip.

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Old 08-11-2016, 12:55 PM   #16
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I forgot to add that when I drain and filled the transmission, I first put in the tsb recommended amount, and it was noisy in overdrive the entire time. I added up to the original factory fill amount and the sound was greatly reduced.

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Old 08-11-2016, 01:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by fenixignition View Post
I forgot to add that when I drain and filled the transmission, I first put in the tsb recommended amount, and it was noisy in overdrive the entire time. I added up to the original factory fill amount and the sound was greatly reduced.

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I may check the level later on to make sure everything is still where is should be, and not low for some reason.

I just changed the fluid less than 2000 miles (3 months ago).

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Old 08-12-2016, 06:22 PM   #18
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TR3650 Experiment

If it was me, I wouldn't bother putting anything other than Dex 3 or Mobil 1 ATF. I've put in RP synchromax and Pennzoil synchromesh and neither have shifter smoother than Mobil 1 ATF IMO. RP felt like it was nibbling on damn near every shift lol. Pennzoil never seemed as smooth as Dex 3 or Mobil 1 to me. I change mine once per year, so I'm going to go ahead and run Dex 3 from now one. It just seems like these trannys prefer the basics.


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Old 08-12-2016, 07:07 PM   #19
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If it was me, I wouldn't bother putting anything other than Dex 3 or Mobil 1 ATF. I've put in RP synchromax and Pennzoil synchromesh and neither have shifter smoother than Mobil 1 ATF IMO. RP felt like it was nibbling on damn near every shift lol. Pennzoil never seemed as smooth as Dex 3 or Mobil 1 to me. I change mine once per year, so I'm going to go ahead and run Dex 3 from now one. It just seems like these trannys prefer the basics.


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I've used everytihng, Syhchromesh in a fresh 3650 with the TSBs done is smooth as you can get.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:25 PM   #20
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I've used everytihng, Syhchromesh in a fresh 3650 with the TSBs done is smooth as you can get.


Nope! Not in my opinion. Mine was replaced in 2012, so it's an "updated" TR3650. Both Dex 3 and Mobil 1 ATF were much better cold and completely warmed up. That's what I experienced anyway. The synchros in the TR3650 just don't need any fancy additive type lubricants for them to work best. Besides, it's not on the Tremec preferred list.


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Old 08-15-2016, 12:57 AM   #21
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Being the Mobil 1 fan that I am, I will likely replace the fluid with Mobil 1 when I drain the fluid to check for debris.

I am going to locate some screen mesh and then drain the fluid through a funnel. Once that is complete I am going to take my time and pour the fluid into another container, allowing the fluid to pass through an old white cotton t shirt, or a few coffee filters if the fluid will flow through the material.

If there is any type of metal I should be able to find it.

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Old 08-15-2016, 08:37 PM   #22
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My transmission use to grind into 2ND raper when cold. As it warmed up it was easier to shift into 2ND but it would occasionally grind into 2ND even when warm. It was also make a constant hissing sounds, kinda like a leaking brake booster when in 5th. After replacing the fluid with Royal Purple synchromesh, the grinding has disappeared even when cold but it still hisses when in 5th. The hissing doesn't bother me that much. But I do hear my throw-out bearing and the compression springs in the clutch plate making noise when up shifting at low rpm.

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