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Old 01-01-2018, 06:34 PM   #1
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4v swap non COP

hey guys quick question i have the option to purchase a used semi built motor.

4.6 32V with c-heads
-Forged 8-bolt crankshaft from 2004 Cobra
-Race bearings
-Upgraded oil pump
-Canton trap door oil pan
-Probst forged pistons/rods
-Ford Motorsport water pump w/ head cooling crossover mod
-Billet intake spacer
-30# injectors
-Long tube headers
-Custom cold air intake

the build is 9 years old but has less than 6000 miles and about a dozen races on it. he's asking 4000 (canadian) for it. seems good... it's out of a sn95 , so no COP. Would it be fairly easy to convert to cop or use the 97 ecu if available. the reason i ask here mainly hoping scotty and stray will jump in and see if its a good swap for my 2000 gt, I know the t45 8 bolt works well .. it would need to be by tomorrow to grab it

cheers.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:11 PM   #2
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Scotty would be the one to definitively answer your questions since he just completed his 4V swap, but I don't see why you couldn't just purchase 8 Cops and convert your existing wiring to make them work just like your current 2V COPs.
I believe that you can use your existing ECU with the appropriate tune.
The price. It converts to about $3150 USD. I don't know. That seems like it may be priced on the high side for an engine built nine years ago...
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:30 PM   #3
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the age scares me a bit to. but it's clean looking and documented. it's been raced but healthy. in Canada hard to find a 4v for cheap. everything up here is so much more overpriced. really makes for a semi budget friendly build lol.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:35 PM   #4
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All you need to swap to COPs in that engine would be 4V COPs, 99-04 COP valve covers for 4V and then the normal 4V swap wiring.

Absolutely under no circumstances should you be trying to swap to another computer.

Ensure you get as much 4V stuff as you can, stuff is nickel/dime if you don't have it all.

Consider replacing the "custom cold air" with a stock CAI.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:38 PM   #5
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Yeah. It could be a supply and demand thing. That could be a smokin' deal for all i know.
As long as you are comfortable with the price and documentation, that's all that matters.
And that the engine has been stored in an acceptable environment, of course.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:40 PM   #6
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And be careful as hell and KNOW what you are looking at. If there is no paperwork on something it needs to be treated as it wasn't done or is stock no matter how adamant the seller is.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:14 PM   #7
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thanks guys. I'm gonna go see it in person tomorrow. seems good, if it all adds up. I may offer 3000 (cad) without ecu if it all looks well. have to act fast on these things around here. 4v motors are rare. forged are even more. but like you said only if documentation is real. ill see for my self tomorrow. would make for a fun swap. apparently its mustang dyno tuned at 325rwhp and 318 rwtq from a very reputable shop here in Canada. it has never seen boost either.. I don't want to get excited yet.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:23 PM   #8
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Keep us posted!
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:40 PM   #9
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didn't get off work early enough to make the hour trip out there. but asked a few more questions, turns outs out only documentation he has is of the tuning here in Canada. it was built originally in California. which is making me less enthusiastic about it. got a couple pictures sent. what do you guys think.

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Old 01-02-2018, 10:27 PM   #10
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It looks clean!
But without any documentation the value goes down.
It would be a little different, I suppose, if the engine was in a car and you could hear it run and possibly drive it.
If you want to take a gamble on it, I think that I would cut his asking price in half, at least.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:24 PM   #11
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Looks clean but the 2V in my car when I got it was clean AF and was blown to ****. No documentation=stock rebuild. And it should be priced accordingly. Also no 4V oil cooler on that thing and he's got spark plug wires on COP valve covers lol. If that thing ever saw wet weather I guarantee water got down there. Those won't seal properly.

I dunno man... if you get it for a good price then you do you. But I cannot stress enough that no documentation=no money.
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:35 PM   #12
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offered 2k. he was humming and hawing about it but said no less than 3. and as much as I would like to swap it in. with out paperwork other the dyno tune and sheets i passed on it . part of me still wants it. but the 2v is running fine for now and can focus on suspention and chassis stifining
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:43 PM   #13
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If your 2V is running great throw some MHS Stage 2 NA cams in it and rev it to 6500. Gears and chassis work/suspension and tires and that will be a very quick car.

Good call on it. Someone is either going to get screwed or get really lucky with that but my money is on screwed. If it was done properly dude would have paperwork or at least some receipts.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:31 PM   #14
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I'm already running 4.10s no more gear lol. I'm almost redlined passing the finish line... so would make sense to cam it, just dont know if i wanna build the 2v or figure out a cool swap for it.. but for now i just ordered new upper and lower control arms, new struts and shocks ( went blisten hd) and steeda subframe connector im sure I'll knock close to a second off my time... last year was only GO mods, with frpp c springs , stock shocks / control arms and nt05 tires not even nt05r. I managed a best 60 ft of 2.02 so with the mentioned upgrades i would imagine a mid 1.5/1.6 and see a mid to high 11 pass. not bad on an old 2v with some juice.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:12 PM   #15
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Watch out with the upper control arms. Aftermarket uppers=snap oversteer on a street car. MM and a few other places recommend leaving the stock stamped uppers in place. Replace the axle side bushings if you do anything.

I dunno the 4V swap is stupid cheap if you have good yards around you. You could probably get 75% there at least on a Mark VIII engine vs what a set of degreed 2V cams would cost but that's a whole engine swap vs a slow weekend for a cam swap. I did the 4V more because I wanted to and that there was a stupid good deal near me. YMMV.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:17 PM   #16
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the yards around here are only okay but the prices they ask for things is ridiculous. a 4v swap is definitely a want. but again price factor weighs in and it comes to a point is it worth it or just upgrade to a 5.0 .

just wondering if in your post did you ever write a complete swap inventory. I mean I know there's a few other posts out there. but you had a few hiccups and it's fresh in the mind. wondering if you haven't posted a list of what you needed to complete the swap if you would. and then I can start pricing parts and see if its a go or no lol
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:21 PM   #17
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Well lets do the cheapest one there is... a 97/98 Mark VIII. You keep the Mark intake and everything. Pretty sure the timing cover is the same too.

-Complete 97/98 Mark VIII engine
-99+ COP valve covers
-4V COPs
-4V alternator
-99-04 Cobra stock manifolds or 96-98 with the smog ports welded shut
-EGR tube for whatever intake you have if you are keeping EGR
-99/01 Cobra style air intake
-Mark throttle and cruise cables
-4V alternator pigtail
-24lb or better injectors which should come on the Mark
-Good tuner to tune you for the 4V

Um... that's really it I think... Its a 95% drop in. You need to reverse/lengthen the COP wires and then lengthen the water temp, IAC and TPS sensor wires. And install the alternator pigtail.

If you were to go with a Cobra or Mach or Aviator you'd need a few different things but not bad.
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2000 Mustang GT Steeda #0048 34k miles. 99 Cobra 4V swapped, FTBR IRS swapped, exhaust, tuned by James Gordon.

Just because I give you advice, doesn't mean I know more than you. Its just means I've done more stupid ****.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:14 PM   #18
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Mark viii motors are 6 bolt crank, no ? I have Windsor block and t45 so some sort of adapter plate i assume
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:11 PM   #19
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Why would you need an adapter plate? You get a 6 bolt flywheel and roll. Crank has 0 to do with bolt pattern on the bell. Get a Luk flywheel for $80 off Rockauto and then your choice of clutch. I recommend the Exedy Mach 400.

Added a few more things. Exhaust manifolds should be a no brainer but put them in there anyway. EGR can get complicated with swaps sometimes but pretty straightforward. You can make your own tube anyway, its not hard. I had a spare 96-98 Cobra and a Mach EGR I got off SVTP that I mated together for mine to clear my cooling mod. Ppl just delete it all the time but many states will fail you on visual if its not there and I know some test for everything to report ready so no EGR=auto fail on the computer.

That's another thing everyone should do with the 4V, cooling mod. And not the kind that links the 2 heads together, you want one that takes the coolant out of the driver's head and moves it forward to the radiator hose. I made my own out of a spare "crack pipe" (rear coolant fitting) and $20 worth of tubing and connectors.
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2000 Mustang GT Steeda #0048 34k miles. 99 Cobra 4V swapped, FTBR IRS swapped, exhaust, tuned by James Gordon.

Just because I give you advice, doesn't mean I know more than you. Its just means I've done more stupid ****.
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