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Old 11-21-2013, 05:42 PM   #1
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5.4 DOHC Swap

Well I'm getting my build list put together as I am starting my build.. I didn't want it to be a plan old boring swap with a 5.0 or what not.. So what I'm doing...

A 5.4 DOHC with an automatic trans in a foxbody.. It's gonna be a big project and a lot of parts but I want it to stand out when I'm done..

This is the roller I'm picking up.. Pretty much already gutted for me to start fresh.. The paint won't stay.

The 5.4 is out of a 00 Lincoln nav. Which will be rebuilt late December.. If my guy stays on track.. PP job on heads cams and the goodies..

4r70w auto trans... With a 99-04 8.8..

Then build from the ground up.. And info ideas thoughts welcome..
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:49 PM   #2
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Gonna be awesome! Which direction are you going Street, strip, road course?
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:00 PM   #3
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I have a friend who did this in a 96, but he has a 90mm turbo. That car is ridiculous.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:01 PM   #4
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Cant wait to see the finished outcome!!
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:05 PM   #5
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Your throwing the whole engine in there right?
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:15 PM   #6
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You'll need to get axles in that 8.8. 5.4 is a torque monster and it will blow that rear end and the 4r70 quick if you don't upgrade. You will also need a PI swap converter because the converter will multiply torque too much.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:14 PM   #7
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You'll need to get axles in that 8.8. 5.4 is a torque monster and it will blow that rear end and the 4r70 quick if you don't upgrade. You will also need a PI swap converter because the converter will multiply torque too much.
Rear end will be built.. A place called bronco connection in my town will be doing that.. PI swap converter? What you mean.

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

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Gonna be awesome! Which direction are you going Street, strip, road course?
There's not many strips Around here so mainly street..

---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

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Your throwing the whole engine in there right?
I'm not sure what you mean but yes..

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

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I have a friend who did this in a 96, but he has a 90mm turbo. That car is ridiculous.
There's a 98 cobra shell I'm going to look at, I want something more diffrent tho.. so I think I want the 88
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:18 PM   #8
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Think I may have found my wiring harness and ecu.. 100$
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:29 PM   #9
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Think I may have found my wiring harness and ecu.. 100$
Looks like its gunna be a good winter lol and u picked up another car haha ur gunna have a full stable soon
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:50 PM   #10
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You'll need an entire wiring harness from a modular if you want to keep it EFI and you'll want the harness to be a 99-up, preferably an 03/04 harness. And there is more than just the engine harness. There is the trans harness, the ECU harness, the dash harness and the body harness. For the ECU you should get an automatic Mach 1 SYM2 ECU if you are going to have the computer shift it. is because when you get into the 10s or faster the ECU is not going to be able to keep up and shift before you bounce off the limiter. Unless you get the SYM2 which is the fastest processor made before the 2005s.

PI swap converter... there is no such thing as a "swap converter" its just a stall converter and PI=Precision Industries. They're known as one of the best in the business but for my money I'd get one from Freakshow Performance in Texas. His triple discs are just as good and he only charges $600 vs $1200.

I would also suggest looking into a manual valve body and shifting the car yourself to avoid any/all wiring issues besides the main engine harness. As far as the trans itself, a 4R out of a 97.5-03 is going to be good for about 500 to the wheels with a good cooler. The 04s got the 4R75w which is much stronger. After 01 or 02 you also did not have a VSS provision anymore so since the fox has a mechanical speedo you'd need one with that provision or get an aftermarket electronic speedo that uses the OSS signal.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:52 PM   #11
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You'll need an entire wiring harness from a modular if you want to keep it EFI and you'll want the harness to be a 99-up, preferably an 03/04 harness. And there is more than just the engine harness. There is the trans harness, the ECU harness, the dash harness and the body harness. For the ECU you should get an automatic Mach 1 SYM2 ECU if you are going to have the computer shift it. is because when you get into the 10s or faster the ECU is not going to be able to keep up and shift before you bounce off the limiter. Unless you get the SYM2 which is the fastest processor made before the 2005s. PI swap converter... there is no such thing as a "swap converter" its just a stall converter and PI=Precision Industries. They're known as one of the best in the business but for my money I'd get one from Freakshow Performance in Texas. His triple discs are just as good and he only charges $600 vs $1200. I would also suggest looking into a manual valve body and shifting the car yourself to avoid any/all wiring issues besides the main engine harness. As far as the trans itself, a 4R out of a 97.5-03 is going to be good for about 500 to the wheels with a good cooler. The 04s got the 4R75w which is much stronger. After 01 or 02 you also did not have a VSS provision anymore so since the fox has a mechanical speedo you'd need one with that provision or get an aftermarket electronic speedo that uses the OSS signal.
Yes the wiring harness I'm going to pull from a 03 GT..

As for the Manuel valve body I'm trying to steer clear of that.. I still want to cruise in this thing when I'm done..

Hp numbers I'm not shooting for the stars.. The motors rated at about 340 I believe.. With cams, tune and a driftnet intake I'm still less the 400 I would assume.. So I do think I'll be breaking 10s anytime soon.

I'm in the search for a wrecked 99-04 to pull everything from. Dash wiring ect.. That way it will be pretty much a 99-04 In a fox shell.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #12
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PI swap converter... there is no such thing as a "swap converter" its just a stall converter and PI=Precision Industries. They're known as one of the best in the business but for my money I'd get one from Freakshow Performance in Texas. His triple discs are just as good and he only charges $600 vs $1200.
Errrrr wrong!

How many 5.4 swaps have you done? There are torque converters made specifically for a swap from a 4.6 to a 5.4 and there is a difference. Alot of the 5.4 trucks came with the 4r100, and although that may be overkill for this build, the torque converters are different between the 4.6 and 5.4 and as you would imagine other changes were made as well. Also, there is no need to do any of these fancy wiring harness swaps you are talking about. Any custom tune can shift the car at any point you want it to first of all, and a valve body with a firm shift pressure will tighten all that up.

If you know anything about converters then you would know that they multiply torque differently. A 4.6 converter will multiply torque at 2x the rate that the 5.4 converter will and if you put that 4.6 converter on the 5.4 you will be sending over 700lbs of torque through that 4r70. It will literally eat every gear in there because they can not
handle that type of torque. Also, transmissions aren't built to handle a horsepower rating, they are built to manage torque and they all have a torque rating.

I've done 6 4.6-5.4 swaps and two of them were 4.6/ 4r70 to 5.4L motor/4r70w. I can even show you the pins that you have change on the harness. Been there.. Done that.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:26 PM   #13
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Errrrr wrong! How many 5.4 swaps have you done? There are torque converters made specifically for a swap from a 4.6 to a 5.4 and there is a difference. Alot of the 5.4 trucks came with the 4r100, and although that may be overkill for this build, the torque converters are different between the 4.6 and 5.4 and as you would imagine other changes were made as well. Also, there is no need to do any of these fancy wiring harness swaps you are talking about. Any custom tune can shift the car at any point you want it to first of all, and a valve body with a firm shift pressure will tighten all that up. If you know anything about converters then you would know that they multiply torque differently. A 4.6 converter will multiply torque at 2x the rate that the 5.4 converter will and if you put that 4.6 converter on the 5.4 you will be sending over 700lbs of torque through that 4r70. It will literally eat every gear in there because they can not handle that type of torque. Also, transmissions aren't built to handle a horsepower rating, they are built to manage torque and they all have a torque rating. I've done 6 4.6-5.4 swaps and two of them were 4.6/ 4r70 to 5.4L motor/4r70w. I can even show you the pins that you have change on the harness. Been there.. Done that.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #14
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Errrrr wrong!

How many 5.4 swaps have you done? There are torque converters made specifically for a swap from a 4.6 to a 5.4 and there is a difference. Alot of the 5.4 trucks came with the 4r100, and although that may be overkill for this build, the torque converters are different between the 4.6 and 5.4 and as you would imagine other changes were made as well. Also, there is no need to do any of these fancy wiring harness swaps you are talking about. Any custom tune can shift the car at any point you want it to first of all, and a valve body with a firm shift pressure will tighten all that up.

If you know anything about converters then you would know that they multiply torque differently. A 4.6 converter will multiply torque at 2x the rate that the 5.4 converter will and if you put that 4.6 converter on the 5.4 you will be sending over 700lbs of torque through that 4r70. It will literally eat every gear in there because they can not
handle that type of torque. Also, transmissions aren't built to handle a horsepower rating, they are built to manage torque and they all have a torque rating.

I've done 6 4.6-5.4 swaps and two of them were 4.6/ 4r70 to 5.4L motor/4r70w. I can even show you the pins that you have change on the harness. Been there.. Done that.
1 - You get the converter built for your build. Its not a "swap converter" it is a stall converter for your combo. You'd tell Freakshow or PI or whoever that you are using a 5.4L and they'll stall it accordingly. If you are swapping in some random assed truck converter have fun with that on a legit build...

2 - Yes, you do need the right harnesses because you are going to be swapping to modular stuff. So if you want it all to work like stock yes you do. At least the ECU, engine and transmission harnesses. Probably don't need the dash and could probably rewire some of the body harness in a fox. How is a tune supposed to work if the wiring is not correct? And no, ECUs besides the SYM2 are not fast enough to shift a big power car before it bounces off the limiter. It isn't the tune, its the HARDWARE like a public library computer is not going to be fast enough to run Skyrim or whatever. Same principle. And to swap a newer Mach ECU into even an older Modular like a 96-98 you still need to do the harness swaps, they are ONLY plug and play in 99-04 cars.

3 - Yes I know all about a better valve body/shift kit etc... Again, not what I am talking about at all. I mentioned a manual valve body because its a very viable option for a big power car where you might not want to mess with tuning shift points or converting your entire car to work with a newer automatic ECU.

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:01 PM   #15
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1 - You get the converter built for your build. Its not a "swap converter" it is a stall converter for your combo. You'd tell Freakshow or PI or whoever that you are using a 5.4L and they'll stall it accordingly. If you are swapping in some random assed truck converter have fun with that on a legit build... 2 - Yes, you do need the right harnesses because you are going to be swapping to modular stuff. So if you want it all to work like stock yes you do. At least the ECU, engine and transmission harnesses. Probably don't need the dash and could probably rewire some of the body harness in a fox. How is a tune supposed to work if the wiring is not correct? And no, ECUs besides the SYM2 are not fast enough to shift a big power car before it bounces off the limiter. It isn't the tune, its the HARDWARE like a public library computer is not going to be fast enough to run Skyrim or whatever. Same principle. And to swap a newer Mach ECU into even an older Modular like a 96-98 you still need to do the harness swaps, they are ONLY plug and play in 99-04 cars. 3 - Yes I know all about a better valve body/shift kit etc... Again, not what I am talking about at all. I mentioned a manual valve body because its a very viable option for a big power car where you might not want to mess with tuning shift points or converting your entire car to work with a newer automatic ECU. ---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ---------- Contrary to my username, I do sometimes know what I am talking about...
i like when people argue in the quest for knowledge
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:02 PM   #16
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1 - You get the converter built for your build. Its not a "swap converter" it is a stall converter for your combo. You'd tell Freakshow or PI or whoever that you are using a 5.4L and they'll stall it accordingly. If you are swapping in some random assed truck converter have fun with that on a legit build...

2 - Yes, you do need the right harnesses because you are going to be swapping to modular stuff. So if you want it all to work like stock yes you do. At least the ECU, engine and transmission harnesses. Probably don't need the dash and could probably rewire some of the body harness in a fox. How is a tune supposed to work if the wiring is not correct? And no, ECUs besides the SYM2 are not fast enough to shift a big power car before it bounces off the limiter. It isn't the tune, its the HARDWARE like a public library computer is not going to be fast enough to run Skyrim or whatever. Same principle. And to swap a newer Mach ECU into even an older Modular like a 96-98 you still need to do the harness swaps, they are ONLY plug and play in 99-04 cars.

3 - Yes I know all about a better valve body/shift kit etc... Again, not what I am talking about at all. I mentioned a manual valve body because its a very viable option for a big power car where you might not want to mess with tuning shift points or converting your entire car to work with a newer automatic ECU.

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------



Contrary to my username, I do sometimes know what I am talking about...
Lol, you realize you are talking to someone who has a 680rwhp lightning with a 4r70 swap right? It also traps 142mph with a Trans harness from a 02 4.6 f150. Has a 3500rpm stall converter built by PI, and you are correct. You can call them up and tell them "hey I'm doing a 4.6 to 5.4 swap" and they will build you a converter. I refer to it as a swap converter because they will need to know that you aren't using a 4.6 converter on a 5.4.

Also, the only difference in the ECU is the intake manifold runner control, oil sender wire and IAC location. All must be accommodated for, as well as the ECT and CHT because 5.4s measure the temperatures differently. Oh and before I forget the PATS will need to be disabled completely.

He will also need to make sure he has a 8bolt crank otherwise he will need a 5.4 flex plate also.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:07 PM   #17
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No, that isn't the only ECU difference, the processor in the Mach computer is faster than other ECUs of the time like a GT computer. Load an identical tune on both with a car making enough power and the GT computer won't be able to get the signal fast enough to shift the trans before it hits the limiter. The Mach computer will.

And if you have a 1 million HP Lightning... ok? We are talking about a foxmod mustang.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:30 PM   #18
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No, that isn't the only ECU difference, the processor in the Mach computer is faster than other ECUs of the time like a GT computer. Load an identical tune on both with a car making enough power and the GT computer won't be able to get the signal fast enough to shift the trans before it hits the limiter. The Mach computer will.

And if you have a 1 million HP Lightning... ok? We are talking about a foxbody mustang.
No we are talking about a fox body with a modular motor. Clearly you know everything I don't.. I'm out! Get your help from this guy OP
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #19
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No we are talking about a fox body with a modular motor. Clearly you know everything I don't.. I'm out! Get your help from this guy OP
Clearly...

A "foxmod" is a foxbody with a mod motor lol.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:00 PM   #20
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i like when people argue in the quest for knowledge
If your not gonna offer anything of value to my thread please don't post.. Thanks
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:06 PM   #21
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No we are talking about a fox body with a modular motor. Clearly you know everything I don't.. I'm out! Get your help from this guy OP

he is correct on the computer part, I have talked to the ford technician on what wiring harness and ecu will work.. He said bassicly any ecu but the Mach would be the best for the reason of it bing the fastest.. As for wiring harness if I go with a 99-04 engine wiring harness almost everything will up right up..

And I do plan on going with a FULL harness for everything because I want this to be a cruiser as well so dash and all.. Not I'm not gonna be making 700 lbs of tourq that's why I'm not so much worried about the trans, the trans is made to handle the power from a cobra. It will handle the 5.4 just fine.. This thing won't be doing 8 second trips down the track..
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:07 PM   #22
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If your not gonna offer anything of value to my thread please don't post.. Thanks
uhhh no I think I think I'll keep posting thanks anyways
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:19 PM   #23
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he is correct on the computer part, I have talked to the ford technician on what wiring harness and ecu will work.. He said bassicly any ecu but the Mach would be the best for the reason of it bing the fastest.. As for wiring harness if I go with a 99-04 engine wiring harness almost everything will up right up..

And I do plan on going with a FULL harness for everything because I want this to be a cruiser as well so dash and all.. Not I'm not gonna be making 700 lbs of tourq that's why I'm not so much worried about the trans, the trans is made to handle the power from a cobra. It will handle the 5.4 just fine.. This thing won't be doing 8 second trips down the track..
Curious as to why he said no to the Mach computer for the reason of it being the fastest. Wouldn't you want that? Its plug and play with any 99-04 harness except for the Termi harness.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:24 PM   #24
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Curious as to why he said no to the Mach computer for the reason of it being the fastest. Wouldn't you want that? Its plug and play with any 99-04 harness except for the Termi harness.
I think Sixpac forgot a comma in there
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:30 PM   #25
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I think Sixpac forgot a comma in there
Ah, not any ecu but the Mach... any ecu, BUT the mach would be the fastest.

Yeah you want to use the SYM2 ECU if you are considering a serious power build. Or go with a US Shift from Baumann and carb the 5.4 lol.
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