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Old 12-08-2013, 12:14 PM   #36
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I Reread this. You do know the "miracle mustang" was just a base v6 Mustang, right?

So you dont understand how beneficial it is at highway speeds to reduce the parachute affect of the engine bay, and direct that air to the sides, and bove the car, rather than being a big Para chute.

Okay...so do you know anything about Roush? Or the last year they developed their own front fascias? Because its slipperiness is why I bought it.

I guess you also dont understand what a completely flat underbody does. You may have never encountered or been underneath a Ford GT, Audi R8, Gallardo, or other vehicle that uses it. It doesnt have much affect, you know...it does nothing and is only for show. Which is why only high speed car with careful development have it.

And apparently you dont understand how much fuel engines use. Why stopping your engine at times when its not needed helps, like the future Corvettes, and most hybrids.

The side splitters are probably negligible. The rear diffuser isn't the hugest development over the original, but with the full underbody, it works.

Let me some dates that work for you, so we can get this setup.
I have a pretty good understanding of aerodynamics UltArc. You see, my other hobby is aviation. Aerodynamics are important on fast airplanes. Slow airplanes? Not so much.
I also have a fair understanding of fuel consumption.
If I didn't have this knowledge, I would have never made that bet.
You referred to a few exotic cars as an example of aerodynamics on automobiles. You have a Mustang. It doesn't have a top speed anywhere near a Ford GT or a Lamborghini.
Aerodynamic mods aren't very effective until you reach "terminal velocity" , about 120 mph.

Pick any time of year that you feel comfortable doing this UltArc. But I'd find a long, slightly downhill road, with a hell of a stiff tailwind, if you want to win this bet...
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:28 PM   #37
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Why are you guys even arguing this? This thread was based on what you actually get mpg wise. Not what is possible if you do a bunch of different crap to change it and dive certain miles doing certain crap.

Just drive, fill up and record your mpg, like this.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #38
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I have to check my schedule at my department and my job. I would say now let's shoot for March 1st. I'd like to do it sooner to put this to rest, but holiday and winter is busy with theft and accidents.

This will be nice. I see that it is just a hobby, since terminal velocity isn't a definite, it is relative to several factors, and our cars top out considerably higher than 120. Oh, and aerodynamic drag is greater than rolling resistance by about ~25 mph.

And those under bodies and mine do greatly differ. Jacks GTs are all built to suck to the ground, increasing downforce and giving better traction and stability, while mine is designed to let the air flow as smoothly as possible underneath. Why my car will be spotless, but the rear end is a total dirt disaster.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:37 PM   #39
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Why are you guys even arguing this? This thread was based on what you actually get mpg wise. Not what is possible if you do a bunch of different crap to change it and dive certain miles doing certain crap.

Just drive, fill up and record your mpg, like this.
Lol.
You're right.
I'm bored...

Start a new thread when you get your car ready UltArc...

My car gets 26 mpg on the freeway.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:39 PM   #40
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Mine too, I usually get anywhere from 16-23 in the city/rural, and about 24-27 on the highway in my 5.0
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:43 PM   #41
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Lol. You're right. I'm bored... Start a new thread when you get your car ready UltArc... My car gets 26 mpg on the freeway.
Now that I want to know how, the best I've gotten is 21mpg and we have the same car
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:51 PM   #42
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Now that I want to know how, the best I've gotten is 21mpg and we have the same car
My car is tuned to perfection and I usually have a LOT of air in my tires.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:44 PM   #43
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I actually learned a lot reading through that argument, thanks and I give props to you guys for being somewhat civil and not kicking the "I'm going to come to your house and kick your ***"-type scenario.

Back to my thread, I did the same trip when I got 27.0 mpg, although this time I only managed 23.0...

UltArc, I'm assuming since the weather was a rainy 40 degrees-ish that affected my mpg?
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #44
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I actually learned a lot reading through that argument, thanks and I give props to you guys for being somewhat civil and not kicking the "I'm going to come to your house and kick your ***"-type scenario.

Back to my thread, I did the same trip when I got 27.0 mpg, although this time I only managed 23.0...

UltArc, I'm assuming since the weather was a rainy 40 degrees-ish that affected my mpg?
Your engine performs the best when the air is cool and dry...
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:29 PM   #45
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I actually learned a lot reading through that argument, thanks and I give props to you guys for being somewhat civil and not kicking the "I'm going to come to your house and kick your ***"-type scenario.

Back to my thread, I did the same trip when I got 27.0 mpg, although this time I only managed 23.0...

UltArc, I'm assuming since the weather was a rainy 40 degrees-ish that affected my mpg?
Colder weather and denser air is harder to travel though, so yepp. Do you keep your tires aired up? If you don't keep on it, that is pretty common to influence it.

Make sure you do hand calculations, too. My in car gauge is always wrong (last fill up was 38 mpg, and it only read 33.x).
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:38 PM   #46
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Your engine performs the best when the air is cool and dry...
I was thinking so. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
Colder weather and denser air is harder to travel though, so yepp. Do you keep your tires aired up? If you don't keep on it, that is pretty common to influence it.

Make sure you do hand calculations, too. My in car gauge is always wrong (last fill up was 38 mpg, and it only read 33.x).
Ah, thanks. I kept up with my tire air pressure in my last 'stang, I've been meaning to with my GT. What's the most optimal mpg tire air pressure you'd recommend?

I don't really worry ab mpg, so I usually just use the on-board mpg calculator because I'm lazy. Next time I go on a trip I'll attempt to go by hand.
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:43 PM   #47
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Colder, more dense air also has a negative affect on the engine regarding mileage. A warn engine (NOT overheating) with warm air (not hot, or overheating it) will be more fuel efficient. Less power/peak performance, but better use of the fuel.
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:44 PM   #48
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In my mach I am getting 22-24 with city and highway and getting on it every now and then cause who can baby there car all the time
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #49
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I was thinking so. Thanks.

Ah, thanks. I kept up with my tire air pressure in my last 'stang, I've been meaning to with my GT. What's the most optimal mpg tire air pressure you'd recommend?

I don't really worry ab mpg, so I usually just use the on-board mpg calculator because I'm lazy. Next time I go on a trip I'll attempt to go by hand.
You should go by hand, mine is always off by at least 10%, but normal drivers usually see closer to 5%.

Tire pressure is subjective. A tire is built and designed to handle over 400% of the air pressure it is labeled as max. DO NOT LOAD IT TO that amount, but they are designed that way. Since I know my tires, Roush installed them with <5 miles on the rim/tire set, I trust them to go up to 40% past sidewall max. It also gives a stiffer ride. I can post or PM you some research on tire pressures. 40% is on the high end of what I would advise, but sidewall max should always be kept for basic road driving.

Keep in mind road conditions will affect tire pressure and the car. Higher pressure, more feel of the road. More feel of bumps. The bumps have the force of the car on them, which is why one shouldn't go too crazy with the PSI.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:05 PM   #50
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Colder, more dense air also has a negative affect on the engine regarding mileage. A warn engine (NOT overheating) with warm air (not hot, or overheating it) will be more fuel efficient. Less power/peak performance, but better use of the fuel.
Not on an engine that is running correctly. The thermostat keeps the engine at a constant temperature. There are more oxygen molecules in cold air. More oxygen=more power and efficiency.

I'm feeling good about my chances on this bet UltArc. Im fully expecting that you're going to post some pics of the "Hot Air Intake" that you've installed on your car...
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:13 PM   #51
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Not on an engine that is running correctly. The thermostat keeps the engine at a constant temperature. There are more oxygen molecules in cold air. More oxygen=more power and efficiency.

I'm feeling good about my chances on this bet UltArc. Im fully expecting that you're going to post some pics of the "Hot Air Intake" that you've installed on your car...
I am glad you're not backing out, I'll be crediting you for paying for my Guinness attempt this August. This is my CAI,

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Quite dirty. It lowered my fuel economy switching to it, but WOT feels less restrained.

Any reference on why cold air makes an engine more fuel efficient?
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #52
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I was thinking so. Thanks.



Ah, thanks. I kept up with my tire air pressure in my last 'stang, I've been meaning to with my GT. What's the most optimal mpg tire air pressure you'd recommend?

I don't really worry ab mpg, so I usually just use the on-board mpg calculator because I'm lazy. Next time I go on a trip I'll attempt to go by hand.
The short answer is... I have 35psi in the rear and 40psi in the front.
Don't use too high of a tire pressure as it can SERIOUSLY effect the way your car handles.
And for god sakes, NEVER EVER TRY TO INFLATE YOUR TIRES 4 TIMES THE MAXIMUM TIRE PRESSURE THATS POSTED ON THE SIDEWALL. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!
People have been killed by tires exploding...

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

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I am glad you're not backing out, I'll be crediting you for paying for my Guinness attempt this August. This is my CAI,

Attachment 140365

Quite dirty. It lowered my fuel economy switching to it, but WOT feels less restrained.

Any reference on why cold air makes an engine more fuel efficient?
I just explained why...

Are you alright UltArc?
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:17 PM   #53
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The farthest iv gone on a tank was about 400 miles to Vegas, cruzing... But regularly about 200 city. With a sixxer
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:22 PM   #54
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The short answer is... I have 35psi in the rear and 40psi in the front.
Don't use too high of a tire pressure as it can SERIOUSLY effect the way your car handles.
And for god sakes, NEVER EVER TRY TO INFLATE YOUR TIRES 4 TIMES THE MAXIMUM TIRE PRESSURE THATS POSTED ON THE SIDEWALL. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!
People have been killed by tires exploding...

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------



I just explained why...

Are you alright UltArc?
I have learned your idea of science is an equal sign, "more power = more efficient," lol, but do you have a source? It is usually a third party that is credible, often through repeated tests with only one variable (the one in question) changing. So thank you for your complex and in depth explanation ( = ), but do you have a SOURCE?

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post

The short answer is... I have 35psi in the rear and 40psi in the front.
Don't use too high of a tire pressure as it can SERIOUSLY effect the way your car handles.
And for god sakes, NEVER EVER TRY TO INFLATE YOUR TIRES 4 TIMES THE MAXIMUM TIRE PRESSURE THATS POSTED ON THE SIDEWALL. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!
People have been killed by tires exploding...

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------



I just explained why...

Are you alright UltArc?
Agreed, on the %. I don't go past 40, I would never advise so high as 400%. That is approaching the max.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:43 PM   #55
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I imagine right now you're looking at Google and trying to figure out why warm air is better for an engine regarding fuel economy, or how you can spread misinformation that makes it seem that cold air is the way.

Here is the simplest explanation I can find: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5195115AAZF2yz

It's really pretty simple, but let me know if you need more help with it. I can explain it more on our twenty hour trip together
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:50 PM   #56
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I have learned your idea of science is an equal sign, "more power = more efficient," lol, but do you have a source? It is usually a third party that is credible, often through repeated tests with only one variable (the one in question) changing. So thank you for your complex and in depth explanation ( = ), but do you have a SOURCE?

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------



Agreed, on the %. I don't go past 40, I would never advise so high as 400%. That is approaching the max.
This is the internet. Google it.
This isn't something that I pulled out of thin air UltArc. (Excuse the pun) People have understood the science of the internal combustion engine for more than a century now.
If you need a refresher, I suggest reading all of cliffyk's posts.

400% of 50psi is 200psi.
You'd have to be insane to try to inflate your tire to that! Providing you could find a compressor that would do it, of course.
Again, the maximum inflation number on the sidewall is there for a reason.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #57
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This is the internet. Google it.
This isn't something that I pulled out of thin air UltArc. (Excuse the pun) People have understood the science of the internal combustion engine for more than a century now.
If you need a refresher, I suggest reading all of cliffyk's posts.

400% of 50psi is 200psi.
You'd have to be insane to try to inflate your tire to that! Providing you could find a compressor that would do it, of course.
Again, the maximum inflation number on the sidewall is there for a reason.
So you have no source. Please, send me something reputable on why cold air is better for fuel economy than warm air. Please?

Yes. 400% of 50 is 200. Very good! That is NOT safe, I think this is the third time I have posted that. 40% over is 20 psi extra, which would come to 70. I run 56 psi on my 40 max sidewall p zeros. 26k and never an issue.

For knowing so much about engines, you do know what an air to fuel ratio is, right?

You know an engine tries to maintain that ratio, right?

You know cold air is denser, right?

You know warm air has less molecules per space, right?

When cold air goes into the engine, more fuel is used to keep the AFR ideal. When warm air goes in, less fuel is needed to keep the AFR. I implore you to find any source. Anything beyond you just saying 'cause. It has been well proven over and over again, and I didn't know people actually refuted it...
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #58
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I imagine right now you're looking at Google and trying to figure out why warm air is better for an engine regarding fuel economy, or how you can spread misinformation that makes it seem that cold air is the way.

Here is the simplest explanation I can find: Why does hot air give you better gas mileage? - Yahoo Answers

It's really pretty simple, but let me know if you need more help with it. I can explain it more on our twenty hour trip together
I'm so sorry about this OP...

Is that the best that you could come up with UltArc?
The counter-argument for that is: The engine is not running correctly like that, therefore, it is not making as much power, hence, it will take more fuel to do a given amount of work. There have been textbooks written on this subject by minds that are much greater than ours.

Here's my final word on this:
If all of these "tricks" were legitimate mods to increase fuel economy, you would see them on every new commuter car made .
The engineers that work for the automobile manufacturers aren't stupid.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:11 PM   #59
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So you have no source. Please, send me something reputable on why cold air is better for fuel economy than warm air. Please? Yes. 400% of 50 is 200. Very good! That is NOT safe, I think this is the third time I have posted that. 40% over is 20 psi extra, which would come to 70. I run 56 psi on my 40 max sidewall p zeros. 26k and never an issue. For knowing so much about engines, you do know what an air to fuel ratio is, right? You know an engine tries to maintain that ratio, right? You know cold air is denser, right? You know warm air has less molecules per space, right? When cold air goes into the engine, more fuel is used to keep the AFR ideal. When warm air goes in, less fuel is needed to keep the AFR. I implore you to find any source. Anything beyond you just saying 'cause. It has been well proven over and over again, and I didn't know people actually refuted it...
1 time you say it's designed to safely handle over 400% the you say it's no where near safe..... So what is it
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:27 PM   #60
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1 time you say it's designed to safely handle over 400% the you say it's no where near safe..... So what is it
Its designed to handle it, yes. Your tires could be there, then hit a bump, and explode. So yes it is designed to handle that, but it's not a very good idea to put something to it's max, then push it further. There also isn't much gain when you go past a certain point.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

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I'm so sorry about this OP...

Is that the best that you could come up with UltArc?
The counter-argument for that is: The engine is not running correctly like that, therefore, it is not making as much power, hence, it will take more fuel to do a given amount of work. There have been textbooks written on this subject by minds that are much greater than ours.

Here's my final word on this:
If all of these "tricks" were legitimate mods to increase fuel economy, you would see them on every new commuter car made .
The engineers that work for the automobile manufacturers aren't stupid.
That's a good point. Using warm air must do nothing but ruin the engine, while using cold air must help fuel economy. Is that why every economy car uses a cold air intake? Is that why every Mustang comes with one already? The Mustang crowd loving fuel economy must be why it is a top seller on American Muscle.

That must also be why on my economy car, the air intake is positioned to suck warm air directly next to the engine. I am willing to humor this and learn about what you are saying, but you still have not provided any source
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:41 PM   #61
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Its designed to handle it, yes. Your tires could be there, then hit a bump, and explode. So yes it is designed to handle that, but it's not a very good idea to put something to it's max, then push it further. There also isn't much gain when you go past a certain point. ---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ---------- That's a good point. Using warm air must do nothing but ruin the engine, while using cold air must help fuel economy. Is that why every economy car uses a cold air intake? Is that why every Mustang comes with one already? The Mustang crowd loving fuel economy must be why it is a top seller on American Muscle. That must also be why on my economy car, the air intake is positioned to suck warm air directly next to the engine. I am willing to humor this and learn about what you are saying, but you still have not provided any source
1st off no tire is designed to handle 400% of max psi and if you be leave that then why did a kid a discount tire get his head blown off taking a tire that was 60 psi max when he got it to 95psi
2ed what source did you give to prove your point yahoo answers that's about as reliable as Wikipedia anybody can post anything yes the first answer supports your side and u think it's the 3rd answer that goes against you in the same page
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:52 PM   #62
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Its designed to handle it, yes. Your tires could be there, then hit a bump, and explode. So yes it is designed to handle that, but it's not a very good idea to put something to it's max, then push it further. There also isn't much gain when you go past a certain point.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------



That's a good point. Using warm air must do nothing but ruin the engine, while using cold air must help fuel economy. Is that why every economy car uses a cold air intake? Is that why every Mustang comes with one already? The Mustang crowd loving fuel economy must be why it is a top seller on American Muscle.

That must also be why on my economy car, the air intake is positioned to suck warm air directly next to the engine. I am willing to humor this and learn about what you are saying, but you still have not provided any source
I can't provide a source UltArc... You're right.
The hot air intake is a good idea. I was just too ashamed to admit it. If I were you I'd run the intake on your Mustang so that it draws air directly from the exhaust manifold area. Thats where you'll get the most benefit.
And the tires? Yeah, high pressure is the way to go. 200psi might be a little much. I'd go with 185psi just to be safe. Be sure to put your ear right up to the tire while you're inflating it up to that pressure, you'll be able to hear when the pressure is "just right".
Good luck man and I'll see you next year...
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:48 PM   #63
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Thanks for the tire pressure input guys. I appreciate it. I didn't mean to light a fire though, haha. Regardless I'm still learning a little and I'd say it's still a good read and relevant to this thread. Enjoying the humor as well, but you guys may want to just agree to disagree eventually
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #64
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Whipple was about 20.5mpg fwy @ 70-72mpg; Turbonetics kit is now 23.5-24.5 @ same mph


3.50 gearing, 5/speed
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:10 PM   #65
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Just took another trip, got bored and did slight testing, below are the best mpg ratings I got at each speed;

60 mph - 30.0 mpg
70 mph - 27.0 mpg
80 mph - 23.0 mpg

I got these results by setting my cruise control on a desired speed (i.e. 60 mph), then reseting my on-board mpg calculator and cruising at the same speed for about 5-10 minutes. I keep meaning to hand calculate, but I always forget before I start the trip. Once again, 2010 GT 4.6 liter V8 auto.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:55 AM   #66
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400 Miles to a single tank. 2005 Sonic Blue V6.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:28 AM   #67
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400 Miles to a single tank. 2005 Sonic Blue V6.
So that's 25 mpg. All highway?
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:39 AM   #68
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So that's 25 mpg. All highway?
Nope, alot of stopping involved. Seriously can't go a quarter mile without a stop sign or traffic light.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:40 AM   #69
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Nope, alot of stopping involved. Seriously can't go a quarter mile without a stop sign or traffic light.
Oh well that's nice and all, but this is highway mpg thread
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:43 AM   #70
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Oh well that's nice and all, but this is highway mpg thread
Oh, in that case, it's usually between 26-28mpg. lol
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