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Old 12-08-2013, 05:52 PM   #1
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AeroStang Fuel Economy Challenge

Quick thread made to talk about the highest my Mustang can get on the highway.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:49 PM   #2
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Please tell me- how are you getting 40 mpg?
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:03 AM   #3
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Please tell me- how are you getting 40 mpg?
+1 and roll tide! I'm getting maybe 32-35 at 60 mph and letting it go up the hills in 6th and coasting down, no cruise control and a 93 tune. I want more lol my ob2 checker is where I get all my data from. No pencil and paper method for me
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:13 AM   #4
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I feel bad, because I want to repost for everyone- but at the same time, I do start to get tired of saying the same things over and over. I don't mean it to be rude, I love helping people improve aerodynamics- aero is the best way to help top speed, acceleration, and fuel economy.

White Lightning, from your image, it looks like you have a 5.0. That is wicked mileage for a 5.0, especially without being modified at all. Please note, I have a 3.7, but when Roush replaced my front end, they used the GT grille for the upper.

I would advise ONE, use a GPS to find out if you are really going how you go. My travel distance is off 2% from what the computer says. True, it isn't much, but I try to be as precise as possible. So, over 100 miles on my odometer, I travel 102 miles. So on a normal tank ~600 miles, I actually travel 612. Not much, but again, aiming for precision rather than accuracy.

From the second link in my signature, AeroStang, here are my modifications.

Scanguage II-2012/06/18; Awesome modification. It DOES nothing. But if gives one so much potential. Showing exactly what is going on really helps me learn what's best- I have stopped going WOT to get to speed, and now try to stick around 80% throttle when needing to change more than 30 mph, if I am changing less and there is little traffic, I do what is called driving with load. I watch the MPG gauge on the SCii, and drive getting 30 mpg up to my ideal speed. Ideal varies by speed limit, but I don't break the law unless I am willing to do the time. I stick to 4 mph over the speed limit if the speed limit is <50. I do not drive over the speed limit if it is 50 (state law in Ohio, it is our speed limit unless otherwise noted), and I do not do over 59 mph unless I have a lot of drafting potential, OR, if my engine is off. Example: I am at a stop sign getting onto a 55 mph road- 80% throttle 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, then 5th or 6th- depending on situation. In an area that is a 55 to 45 to 35 to 55, I engine off in the 55 while doing 59 and I coast into the 45 doing 49~, hit the 35 right around 39~ and by time I get to the stop light, I know to kick the engine back on (if the light will be green) or coast to the light (if it will be red). I then drive with load (30 mpg) up to 35 mph, then drive with load to 59 in the 55, unless there is traffic behind me- then I drop to 5th gear and 80% engine load to ~55 and 6th to the speed I want, then cruise control.

18" OEM 2013 Mustang GT wheels with Pirelli P Zero tires-2012/07/03; These increased me to 2% further traveling per axle rotation. Essentially, it lowered my rpm to speed by 2%. Little, but does help.

Axle Back Exhuast, Front Fascia, Front Air Splitter, Side Splitters, Grille Block-2012/07/18; HUGE difference. It felt like a different car when I got back into it. Seriously, I got out of my car and inspected it after I tried driving it, just engine idle in first gear felt like a rocket ship in comparison to before the modifications. Front fascia allegedly has such a good shape it has been banned from some racing leagues. Not sure if the guy ar Roush knew what he was talking about (since he also said CAI and axle backs on a v6 add 50 horsepower...eye roll), but there is a clear difference. The splitter has helped more when there was no underbody, I am not sure how much it really does with the underbody being totally sealed. Air dam has two points to it. Yes, it helps aerodynamics by reducing the amount of air going into the engine bay (DRAG), but it also helps keep the engine bay nice and warm. The cars have computers. They know the temperature of the air coming into the intake, and they adjust the fuel level to keep the air fuel ratio in check. Warmer air, less fuel used, colder air, more fuel used. This is evident to me through my results in testing my car's fuel economy before and after CAI. It got worse. Documentation was noted on Ecomodder.com. Side splitters help keep air above splitters up, and stops wheel well air from also coming back up the sides of the car, rather, it stays moving straight back more. I doubt it is adding a noticeable difference, but they look good, and one can see from the change in road dirt on the car that the air is behaving in a different way.

Cold Air Induction, GT/CS Rear Valance-2012/10/05; CAI lowered my fuel economy. Undoubtedly, 100%, lowered my fuel economy. Rear valance is pointless when the underbody is disgusting- total mess down there, pre underbody. The GT that Ford at NAIAS put sideways was my inspiration to fix the bottom.

Air dam & Upper Grille Block-2012/10/18; Air dam helps the air underneath be directed under the mess below the car. It does increase the frontal area, but it makes the air more smooth under the vehicle. Pointless if there is an underbody.

Antenna Delete-2013/01/06; Negligible difference. Reduces drag slightly, but would most likely only be noticed by use of wind tunnel.

UltraGuage Install-2013/02/23; UG is great for monitoring, or passive use, but is not ideal for testing or frequent adjusting.

Kill Switch Install-2013/03/17; Allows me to kill engine by the switch when it is not needed. Red light ahead? Kill it. Coasting down hill? Kill it. Stop sign at the bottom of the hill? Kill it. I bump start to restart, so the start does not see any extra use (except at occasional long redlights. My general rule based on engine fuel consumption, is that engine idling for 30 seconds = an engine start. To be clear, if I were to turn my engine off for 20 seconds, I would use more fuel to restart it than would be used idling for that time. If I do not need my engine for more than 30 seconds, why waste the fuel? Kill it. Very helpful on hills on the highway. Cruise at 59 mph to the top of the hill, then kill it on the way down. I often find I have to bump start, then down shift to slow the vehicle down because my speed starts to get excessive. She's actually been faster with the engine off downhill than engine on lol (96 vs 93, respectively).

Premium Fuel Only-2013/04/13; Not sure why I made the switch. I really don't care about the cost of fuel, since at the time I was beating 30 mpg city, so I thought I'd try it out. My daily driver sees about 65 mpg average (record low 54, record high 81), so I really couldn't care less about the cost of fuel.

Lower grille block-2013/05/11; OSP pulled me over for not having a front plate. They didn't give me a ticket (obviously), but they said they have to start cracking down, and asked me to do something so they don't have to pull me over for it. SO, built a lower grille block with the LP at the center, and poly carbonate coming down the sides. Couldn't calculate the difference without a lot of testing, but simple thought process will show it does. Are you faster running with an open parachute, or faster running without it?

Swapping Single Piece Air Dam for New Two Piece-2013/06/01; Air dam was removed for a wider version, made of two pieces.

Full Underbody-2013/06/05; Air dam was removed, and full underbody is in place. Starts at front fascia in three portions, fish scale style, first piece for easy removal on oil changes, the second under the main cabin, and third along suspension and into the rear valance. It is WICKED to see how great it works. Driving in snow or just after cleaning it, and one can see the snow packed onto the rear, or how there will be some dirt on the nose, no dirt on the sides, and the rear end looks like it was never washed before lol

I have a hard time quantifying what a single modification does, because I do not remove my old modifications to test it vs stock. I have been finding modifications that aerodynamically work, and incorporating them. If I see even the slightest increase or it is obvious it works/doesn't hurt (removing antenna, how can that HURT mpg?), then I keep it. If it doesn't work, remove it. So on my developing website, I do have a section going tank by tank and showing my test results, with the difference from past modification. But for example, the rear valance. It was changed before I had the full underbody- so how could I know the difference? Main reason for it was that it looked better, and had A design to it, not just a chunk of plastic. Does it do anything? It should guide the air back more efficiently, but I couldn't say for certain. An underbody? Yes. That is a simple absolute, a flat underbody is more efficient than countless chunks hanging down and getting in the way of the air, and curves and dips and a mess that makes the flow more turbulent and less laminar.

I don't have it down to a wind tunnel science- but simple principles being applied have made a clear and definite difference.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:49 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
I feel bad, because I want to repost for everyone- but at the same time, I do start to get tired of saying the same things over and over. I don't mean it to be rude, I love helping people improve aerodynamics- aero is the best way to help top speed, acceleration, and fuel economy. White Lightning, from your image, it looks like you have a 5.0. That is wicked mileage for a 5.0, especially without being modified at all. Please note, I have a 3.7, but when Roush replaced my front end, they used the GT grille for the upper. I would advise ONE, use a GPS to find out if you are really going how you go. My travel distance is off 2% from what the computer says. True, it isn't much, but I try to be as precise as possible. So, over 100 miles on my odometer, I travel 102 miles. So on a normal tank ~600 miles, I actually travel 612. Not much, but again, aiming for precision rather than accuracy. From the second link in my signature, AeroStang, here are my modifications. Scanguage II-2012/06/18; Awesome modification. It DOES nothing. But if gives one so much potential. Showing exactly what is going on really helps me learn what's best- I have stopped going WOT to get to speed, and now try to stick around 80% throttle when needing to change more than 30 mph, if I am changing less and there is little traffic, I do what is called driving with load. I watch the MPG gauge on the SCii, and drive getting 30 mpg up to my ideal speed. Ideal varies by speed limit, but I don't break the law unless I am willing to do the time. I stick to 4 mph over the speed limit if the speed limit is <50. I do not drive over the speed limit if it is 50 (state law in Ohio, it is our speed limit unless otherwise noted), and I do not do over 59 mph unless I have a lot of drafting potential, OR, if my engine is off. Example: I am at a stop sign getting onto a 55 mph road- 80% throttle 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, then 5th or 6th- depending on situation. In an area that is a 55 to 45 to 35 to 55, I engine off in the 55 while doing 59 and I coast into the 45 doing 49~, hit the 35 right around 39~ and by time I get to the stop light, I know to kick the engine back on (if the light will be green) or coast to the light (if it will be red). I then drive with load (30 mpg) up to 35 mph, then drive with load to 59 in the 55, unless there is traffic behind me- then I drop to 5th gear and 80% engine load to ~55 and 6th to the speed I want, then cruise control. 18" OEM 2013 Mustang GT wheels with Pirelli P Zero tires-2012/07/03; These increased me to 2% further traveling per axle rotation. Essentially, it lowered my rpm to speed by 2%. Little, but does help. Axle Back Exhuast, Front Fascia, Front Air Splitter, Side Splitters, Grille Block-2012/07/18; HUGE difference. It felt like a different car when I got back into it. Seriously, I got out of my car and inspected it after I tried driving it, just engine idle in first gear felt like a rocket ship in comparison to before the modifications. Front fascia allegedly has such a good shape it has been banned from some racing leagues. Not sure if the guy ar Roush knew what he was talking about (since he also said CAI and axle backs on a v6 add 50 horsepower...eye roll), but there is a clear difference. The splitter has helped more when there was no underbody, I am not sure how much it really does with the underbody being totally sealed. Air dam has two points to it. Yes, it helps aerodynamics by reducing the amount of air going into the engine bay (DRAG), but it also helps keep the engine bay nice and warm. The cars have computers. They know the temperature of the air coming into the intake, and they adjust the fuel level to keep the air fuel ratio in check. Warmer air, less fuel used, colder air, more fuel used. This is evident to me through my results in testing my car's fuel economy before and after CAI. It got worse. Documentation was noted on Ecomodder.com. Side splitters help keep air above splitters up, and stops wheel well air from also coming back up the sides of the car, rather, it stays moving straight back more. I doubt it is adding a noticeable difference, but they look good, and one can see from the change in road dirt on the car that the air is behaving in a different way. Cold Air Induction, GT/CS Rear Valance-2012/10/05; CAI lowered my fuel economy. Undoubtedly, 100%, lowered my fuel economy. Rear valance is pointless when the underbody is disgusting- total mess down there, pre underbody. The GT that Ford at NAIAS put sideways was my inspiration to fix the bottom. Air dam & Upper Grille Block-2012/10/18; Air dam helps the air underneath be directed under the mess below the car. It does increase the frontal area, but it makes the air more smooth under the vehicle. Pointless if there is an underbody. Antenna Delete-2013/01/06; Negligible difference. Reduces drag slightly, but would most likely only be noticed by use of wind tunnel. UltraGuage Install-2013/02/23; UG is great for monitoring, or passive use, but is not ideal for testing or frequent adjusting. Kill Switch Install-2013/03/17; Allows me to kill engine by the switch when it is not needed. Red light ahead? Kill it. Coasting down hill? Kill it. Stop sign at the bottom of the hill? Kill it. I bump start to restart, so the start does not see any extra use (except at occasional long redlights. My general rule based on engine fuel consumption, is that engine idling for 30 seconds = an engine start. To be clear, if I were to turn my engine off for 20 seconds, I would use more fuel to restart it than would be used idling for that time. If I do not need my engine for more than 30 seconds, why waste the fuel? Kill it. Very helpful on hills on the highway. Cruise at 59 mph to the top of the hill, then kill it on the way down. I often find I have to bump start, then down shift to slow the vehicle down because my speed starts to get excessive. She's actually been faster with the engine off downhill than engine on lol (96 vs 93, respectively). Premium Fuel Only-2013/04/13; Not sure why I made the switch. I really don't care about the cost of fuel, since at the time I was beating 30 mpg city, so I thought I'd try it out. My daily driver sees about 65 mpg average (record low 54, record high 81), so I really couldn't care less about the cost of fuel. Lower grille block-2013/05/11; OSP pulled me over for not having a front plate. They didn't give me a ticket (obviously), but they said they have to start cracking down, and asked me to do something so they don't have to pull me over for it. SO, built a lower grille block with the LP at the center, and poly carbonate coming down the sides. Couldn't calculate the difference without a lot of testing, but simple thought process will show it does. Are you faster running with an open parachute, or faster running without it? Swapping Single Piece Air Dam for New Two Piece-2013/06/01; Air dam was removed for a wider version, made of two pieces. Full Underbody-2013/06/05; Air dam was removed, and full underbody is in place. Starts at front fascia in three portions, fish scale style, first piece for easy removal on oil changes, the second under the main cabin, and third along suspension and into the rear valance. It is WICKED to see how great it works. Driving in snow or just after cleaning it, and one can see the snow packed onto the rear, or how there will be some dirt on the nose, no dirt on the sides, and the rear end looks like it was never washed before lol I have a hard time quantifying what a single modification does, because I do not remove my old modifications to test it vs stock. I have been finding modifications that aerodynamically work, and incorporating them. If I see even the slightest increase or it is obvious it works/doesn't hurt (removing antenna, how can that HURT mpg?), then I keep it. If it doesn't work, remove it. So on my developing website, I do have a section going tank by tank and showing my test results, with the difference from past modification. But for example, the rear valance. It was changed before I had the full underbody- so how could I know the difference? Main reason for it was that it looked better, and had A design to it, not just a chunk of plastic. Does it do anything? It should guide the air back more efficiently, but I couldn't say for certain. An underbody? Yes. That is a simple absolute, a flat underbody is more efficient than countless chunks hanging down and getting in the way of the air, and curves and dips and a mess that makes the flow more turbulent and less laminar. I don't have it down to a wind tunnel science- but simple principles being applied have made a clear and definite difference.
He has a 3.7

Small question, for kill switch sakes.. Doesn't that put a lot of ware and tare on the engine.. 30 of idling isn't probably close to the fuel consumption of starting..
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:40 AM   #6
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If done incorrectly, it would put more wear on the clutch. Countless people have been bump starting and doing the same with other vehicles, usually little economy cars.

I couldn't specifically say the wear and tear it does to it, but if a rinky dink 20 year old Honda/Toyota can do it for 5-10 years and never have an issue from it, I'd like to think the Mustang can handle it.

For me, it's more about the fun of it. The challenge, and the experience. No matter if I forge the internals, turbo charge it, and fuel is $.30 a gallon, the speed limit is the speed limit. I have to drive, and it's how I have fun with it.

Some people like to max out power, a lap time, this or that, and that all is cool, it's great to have a passion, but I have fallen into the passion of maximizing the efficiency of the vehicle. Started with a car that was dieing (bad tranny, radiator, bad brakes, suspension was ready to totally go) and I had no money. So what would I do? I started driving more efficiently, carefully watching stop lights, instead of paying attention to traffic to go fast, I did it to move smoothly. Traded it in, got the Mustang, and instead of having a 10 year old car I am trying to stop from total death, I am maintaining a Mustang in as efficient way as possible.

My point is, what I may be doing in damage won't be catastrophic (blown engine, so on), and will just be replaced when it needs to be.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #7
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I have a question about that. What does the killswitch do differently from just turning the key off and on?
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #8
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I have a question about that. What does the killswitch do differently from just turning the key off and on?
Never paid attention in my stangs but in my focus when you cut the key you have to turn all the way off and back on to kill the engine and run acc. That gets quite annoying and kills the headlights at night momentarily.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #9
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I have a v6 btw. GT swap and I want to be like you in terms of efficiency.

What did you make the underbody out of? I like the fish scale idea and I have a shop to do the work in. Metal or a type of plastic? Also wanting to add the GT/CS front lower clip, the lower splitter, roush side and rear end kit and the GT/CS rear valence. Lower the car some and give it a different tire and time combo to put less load on the engine and rotational mass.

My general habit is try to get up the hill in 6th even if I lose speed, and then just coast down the hill in N. I have an automatic though
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:47 PM   #10
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Never paid attention in my stangs but in my focus when you cut the key you have to turn all the way off and back on to kill the engine and run acc. That gets quite annoying and kills the headlights at night momentarily.
Headlights stay on for me, but yepp.

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I have a question about that. What does the killswitch do differently from just turning the key off and on?
A lot of things work differently, plus, one has to keep it off for a moment so the engine totally dies. I have a stretch of 55 mph road coming to my house- so I EOC (engine off coast) to the road, bump start into 6th (~30 mph), down to 3rd, 2nd, and then WOT 2nd to 40 mph, clutch in and as I am putting the clutch in, I flip the switch. Clutching in blips the rpms, so that is why I do it while clutching in. So since my rpms are up, the key would have to be OFF longer, otherwise the engine will fire back up. I used to do it rarely, but for several stretches it was SUCH a waste. I can't imagine why anyone would want their engine on and wasting fuel when coming to a stop sign. ANYWAY, I had turn key, and while waiting for the rpms to drop low enough, I would be losing the miles. In the OFF position, miles aren't tracked. Also, it is possible to lock the steering wheel- which would be pretty bad lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
I have a v6 btw. GT swap and I want to be like you in terms of efficiency.

What did you make the underbody out of? I like the fish scale idea and I have a shop to do the work in. Metal or a type of plastic? Also wanting to add the GT/CS front lower clip, the lower splitter, roush side and rear end kit and the GT/CS rear valence. Lower the car some and give it a different tire and time combo to put less load on the engine and rotational mass.

My general habit is try to get up the hill in 6th even if I lose speed, and then just coast down the hill in N. I have an automatic though
Good looking Stang. I was going to put on a GT front fascia, but Roush made me an offer I couldn't refuse, so I sold it. I love the look of the GTs. No v6 disrespect, but all I see is a big goofy Mazda 3 smile.

I make most of my gear out of polycarbonate. Think cardboard, but made of plastic. Lowering the vehicle will help quite a bit in terms of aero and efficiency. I have noticed some Fords will use more fuel in N than D. My ex's Escape was like that.

D puts the engine into DFCO (fuel cut off), so the injectors aren't firing- while N keeps the engine idling, and sometimes kicks up the engine idle (hers would DFCO around ~900, but N would kick it up to ~1200).

The automatic will be more challenging for FE. For the average person, usually an auto is better, but for complete control, the standard is usually better. I will look for some build photos of my underbody. I think I did 3 versions, all essentially the same, just new boards and wiser choices in attaching.

If you're near Ohio, I might be able to hook you up with some board. The easiest thing to do for large builds like this is to find a sign shop, and get to know them. Visit a few times, chat it up, let them know you are interested in buying some board. The 2nd or 3rd time stopping by and chatting, ask how much they would charge for misprints. My father gets unlimited boards- I actually have built a few sources, and it's kind of gotten out of hand lol. I will post up some more photos.

Oh, and note you CAN still do a kill switch- I just advise a protective cap. And, you won't be able to bump start (I don't think, nor do I advise), but for some stretches/traveling, it may be worthwhile. Just put it in N, kill it, then while in N, start the engine when you're ready, then back to D.

I would advise tracking your fuel use to see the patterns, and watch how you're doing. Fuelly is decent, but I prefer EcoModder. I use both, and FuelEconomy.gov, as they all offer something unique.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #11
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My current supply:



Original build for rear end flow control:



Current model:


Note, the rubberized coating on the top and sealing the sides looks different dry, and the sides are now sealed the same way but with a silver version of the same product. All of the ties are now clipped, too.

Upper Grille block on the Insight (doesn't have to look good...it's a Honda):



Mirror Delete:





Still looking for the underbody photos- but as you can see, anything can be done with polycarbonate lol
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:10 PM   #12
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I've seen your post in the past and it got me into the whole fuel efficient concept. You can have power and still get good mpg. I remember the grille blocks and you made it so that the holes in te grille were blocked off. So does the air come from the giant gapes in the lower grille? Does it run hotter? That also polycarbonate, or was that metal?

I've seen rear flow type things on some semi trucks on the rear of the trailer and they have lower trailer skirts to keep the air moving smoother. Also, I'm down south in Alabama.

This new ME layout on the iPhone is so confusing lol
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
I've seen your post in the past and it got me into the whole fuel efficient concept. You can have power and still get good mpg. I remember the grille blocks and you made it so that the holes in te grille were blocked off. So does the air come from the giant gapes in the lower grille? Does it run hotter? That also polycarbonate, or was that metal?

I've seen rear flow type things on some semi trucks on the rear of the trailer and they have lower trailer skirts to keep the air moving smoother. Also, I'm down south in Alabama.

This new ME layout on the iPhone is so confusing lol
I actually block my lower and upper, for a while now. Air gets in from all the little openings, everywhere. Especially so when moving. I don't really sit still long enough to see if it would over overheat. I never got the needle to tip closer to Hot than Cold, temps bounce between 212 and 220. Yes, it runs warmer, but warmer helps fuel economy to a point (an overheated engine does not run well, but cars this new and maintained don't overheat easily-never happened to me, not even running 440 miles on the highway, which is when I hit 46+).

I guess the question of it running hotter is a yes no. No, it doesn't hit any temperatures it wouldn't normally hit, but yes, because it reaches it's preferred temperature faster, and keeps it better.

It's pretty cool, truckers have used grille blocks to keep their engines warm for decades (some people will tell you it doesn't work ), and now the smarter companies are even using the kammbacks



and side skirts.



Grille blocks on a few vehicles:

Race built 5.0




A few of these keep bigger openings, but for how much air they need, combined with the lack of other openings for air to passively move through, it makes sense.

Not sure on the layout issue, Android for me.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:18 AM   #14
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My current supply:



Original build for rear end flow control:



Current model:


Note, the rubberized coating on the top and sealing the sides looks different dry, and the sides are now sealed the same way but with a silver version of the same product. All of the ties are now clipped, too.

Upper Grille block on the Insight (doesn't have to look good...it's a Honda):



Mirror Delete:





Still looking for the underbody photos- but as you can see, anything can be done with polycarbonate lol
sorry for the bold but is THAT THING REAL OR HAVE I HAD TOO MUCH ALCOHOL?

---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

[QUOTE=Whitelightning;1892435]+1 and roll tide! I'm getting maybe 32-35 at 60 mph and letting it go up the hills in 6th and coasting down, no cruise control and a 93 tune. I want more lol my ob2 checker is where I get all my data from. No pencil and paper method for me[/QUOTE

Getting better mileage is nice but all the C**P your doing just isn't worth it. I want to put on the cruise control on my automatic and listen to the radio while going down the road.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:44 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=NewMtang;1900365]sorry for the bold but is THAT THING REAL OR HAVE I HAD TOO MUCH ALCOHOL?

---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
+1 and roll tide! I'm getting maybe 32-35 at 60 mph and letting it go up the hills in 6th and coasting down, no cruise control and a 93 tune. I want more lol my ob2 checker is where I get all my data from. No pencil and paper method for me[/QUOTE

Getting better mileage is nice but all the C**P your doing just isn't worth it. I want to put on the cruise control on my automatic and listen to the radio while going down the road.
Yepp lol, best tank is 81 mpg (but it could be a fluke), when I beat the crap out of it, I get 65 mpg lol. Here is a guy who pulled 124 mpg out of a stock Insight, just awesome driving (2254 miles on a 13.x gallon tank!): Honda Insight Hybrid Wins Hypermiling Competition with 124 Miles per Gallon : TreeHugger. Now if they took the MIMA system, added my aero modifications, and had Wayne Gerdes driving...geeze.

And the work on the AeroStang wasn't too difficult at all. For how cheap it is, and a little elbow grease, that makes a car faster and more fuel efficient...it's pretty worth it. That's cool you just chill and enjoy the ride, but I get bored. The worst thing in the world to me is a flat, straight road.

Eisenhower Interstate Highway System -Frequently Asked Questions

It's a pretty wide spread belief (many people have told me, is why I say that) that roads are "required" to have turns to keep from drivers falling asleep, or highway hypnosis, or whatever. Clearly that is not true, but like many people, flat and straight is boring. I want to interact, and keep busy. Like with the Insight, it's a standard (gear lever), three pedals, phantom clutch on/off switch, manual brake regen switch, and kill switch (in final process now).
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:58 AM   #16
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Had a friend drive the entire length of I55 (~1000 miles) in his tdi passat on one tank of gas. I know his mpg was over 70mpg on an unmodified car, just used driving techniques. I've applied a few methods on my Focus and have an upper grill block from the same polycarbonate material. I have an endless supply from the random signs people place on properties I maintain. I think I might just stockpile for a bit and attempt an underbody pan. I have 70k miles of data to compare to so why not...
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #17
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Very cool. I've beaten a 1,000 km tank, but not even close to that

That would be cool to see. Is your data consistent, to be able to see a difference? Often people will do a modification and then while testing it out they accidentally drive more smoothly or more carefully, and their modifications improvement is artificially improved by driving technique. I have grown to like the standard ABA testing, but I rarely do it because I hate working hard on something and then ripping it off my car. If you race (drag/auto cross/track) it would be cool to see if there were any changes in times.

I never got around to taking mine to the strip.
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=NewMtang;1900365]sorry for the bold but is THAT THING REAL OR HAVE I HAD TOO MUCH ALCOHOL?

---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
+1 and roll tide! I'm getting maybe 32-35 at 60 mph and letting it go up the hills in 6th and coasting down, no cruise control and a 93 tune. I want more lol my ob2 checker is where I get all my data from. No pencil and paper method for me[/QUOTE



Getting better mileage is nice but all the C**P your doing just isn't worth it. I want to put on the cruise control on my automatic and listen to the radio while going down the road.

Not worth it? I get nearly 32-35 mpg and my car is mostly highway? I'm not in it for performance, I'm in it for the heritage and legacy of owning a 50 year running car and to show people wrong; that a pony car can get insane mileage.

I'm deleting my antenna and adding new splitters next. Every bit helps. Why not?

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
Very cool. I've beaten a 1,000 km tank, but not even close to that

That would be cool to see. Is your data consistent, to be able to see a difference? Often people will do a modification and then while testing it out they accidentally drive more smoothly or more carefully, and their modifications improvement is artificially improved by driving technique. I have grown to like the standard ABA testing, but I rarely do it because I hate working hard on something and then ripping it off my car. If you race (drag/auto cross/track) it would be cool to see if there were any changes in times.

I never got around to taking mine to the strip.



Do you glue the plates together? Or do you Have them tightly woven or tied together. Trying to develop it on paper first
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc
Very cool. I've beaten a 1,000 km tank, but not even close to that

That would be cool to see. Is your data consistent, to be able to see a difference? Often people will do a modification and then while testing it out they accidentally drive more smoothly or more carefully, and their modifications improvement is artificially improved by driving technique. I have grown to like the standard ABA testing, but I rarely do it because I hate working hard on something and then ripping it off my car. If you race (drag/auto cross/track) it would be cool to see if there were any changes in times.

I never got around to taking mine to the strip.
This is in my dd focus. I drive the same 60 miles 5 days a week. I leave for work at 545am and leave work after the traffic subsides in the evening so my data is about as precise as I can do it without running machinery. I also have weeks like this one where i've done over 1000 miles of highway driving on the same exact route. Focus sucks at highway though, only averaging 31 mpg at 78 mph.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:10 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=Whitelightning;1900638]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMtang View Post
sorry for the bold but is THAT THING REAL OR HAVE I HAD TOO MUCH ALCOHOL?

---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------




Not worth it? I get nearly 32-35 mpg and my car is mostly highway? I'm not in it for performance, I'm in it for the heritage and legacy of owning a 50 year running car and to show people wrong; that a pony car can get insane mileage.

I'm deleting my antenna and adding new splitters next. Every bit helps. Why not?

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------






Do you glue the plates together? Or do you Have them tightly woven or tied together. Trying to develop it on paper first
Heck yes! My signal was not altered by removing the antenna- what altered my signal was Best Buy cutting the radio wire But agreed, one single thing may not make a difference we can calculate, but like Tony Defeo said, "Don't look for one place to lose 100 pounds, look for 1600 places to lose an ounce."

I can NOT find about 14k images right now. Which includes my underbody images. What I did to attach it was map out the exact points I wanted to attach it. I then took these metal chunks, very flat, kind of looks like an "E."

I was going to try to describe it, but instead I will "make it."

1|A
--
2|B
--
3|C

Imagine that is all one piece (don't imagine the numbers or letters). I would hold the polycarbonate up in the place I want, then use a permanent marker to out line it. Then, a knife and a candle would slowly turn it (try not to tear the PC), and make a hole on one side, slight puncture on the other. Remember, you want to keep the PC in as good of a condition as possible. The better you treat it now, the longer it will hold. I have had zero issues with any builds, but I also over build. These slight punctures will occur at 1, 2, 3, A, B, and C. Slide a zip tie (I use at least 75 lb strength) through 2. Wrap it over whatever it is connecting to, such as the frame or K bar or whatever, then bring it back through B, put the metal piece up, and then secure the zip tie into itself. Keep it loose, so you have space to work on 1/A and 3/C. You do the middle one first because it will hold the piece in place. Do the other two sides, and it will hold up. The reason I did this, is because there will be other forces acting on the underbody. It's not always just air smoothly floating underneath. So that it why each point I attach with, has three holds. Also, instead of the PC being pulled on by one point (two openings), or three points (six openings), it has one larger multi angle chunk, which spreads the force- making it less likely for the PC to tear.

One thing to keep in mind, is that you want to fish scale it so the front end covers the middle, middle covers the rear, and rear tucks/integrates with the rear end. This can be great, or bad. Great if you can do it one sitting, start at the rear, work your way forward. But, if you can't finish it in one sitting, an underbody can act like a big parachute if air is flowing underneath and has no escape route. You may notice I leave openings in my builds. My underbody does integrate with my rear valance, some parts under, some above, alternating. BUT, the sides at the rear are specifically open so if I am getting air underneath, it can escape. I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything, and know I can make a mistake- so I try to give myself some leeway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn View Post
This is in my dd focus. I drive the same 60 miles 5 days a week. I leave for work at 545am and leave work after the traffic subsides in the evening so my data is about as precise as I can do it without running machinery. I also have weeks like this one where i've done over 1000 miles of highway driving on the same exact route. Focus sucks at highway though, only averaging 31 mpg at 78 mph.
That doesn't seem bad at all. What year?
Ford Focus MPG Reports | Fuelly
EcoModder Fleet list - EcoModder.com

Details: Aerofocus - 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 Fuel Economy - EcoModder.com


Nice little build on a Focus air dam & front section belly pan.
Ford Focus front belly pan - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:18 PM   #21
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I know its not bad. I'm used to getting 33-34 daily when I behave myself. It's just turning too many rpm's at highway speed.
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:12 AM   #22
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White Lightning & lowflyn, thought you might like this, and thought others might gain value from it.



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Old 12-16-2013, 09:38 PM   #23
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Found my images!

Backing up to Ramps


Prepping the board to be attached


Close up of attachment design



Look at how dirty this underbody is! C'mon Ford


Attaching



Secured, but not tightened (to maintain work space)


Laying the line, not tightening yet


What it should look like attached (view from ground)


Rear sway bar attachment point




Working rear to front

Mostly done

Upper grille block after almost a year


For a 2012 standard V6 Mustang, aerodynamic drag is greater than rolling resistance before 5 mph (Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com)
, while the V8 sees the same standard (Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com). Please note, these numbers are based on summer conditions and summer fuel.
If one can improve the v6 (~280 hp) CD by 10%, the top speed (if only limited by power and aerodynamics) increases from 165-170 to 170-175 (Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com). The v8 (~380 hp to wheels) seeing a 10% difference would go from 185-190 to 195-200 (Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com).
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:44 PM   #24
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So start at the front, then middle and then least. What's that piece of metal on the signs? Just to help it stay attached? Now that I see this.... I'm a vast over thinker
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:55 PM   #25
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So start at the front, then middle and then least. What's that piece of metal on the signs? Just to help it stay attached? Now that I see this.... I'm a vast over thinker
At one point I made the diagram with the numbers and letters. That spreads the force out so its not pulling on just one small section.

The same force spread out holds it better. I just want to make sure it doesn't come off, and this works for my build.

Version 2 was great for a while, until I cruised through a DEEP puddle at ~35 miles per hour. Water is much thicker than air lol. It was dragging at the rear where it was all ripped off, but the front of the rear panel (tucked under the middle pattern) held fine. I just had to drive 45-50 MPH. Any slower would drag, any faster would flap lol (I was about an hour away from home, it was removed when I got home and later rebuilt).
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:51 AM   #26
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At one point I made the diagram with the numbers and letters. That spreads the force out so its not pulling on just one small section.

The same force spread out holds it better. I just want to make sure it doesn't come off, and this works for my build.

Version 2 was great for a while, until I cruised through a DEEP puddle at ~35 miles per hour. Water is much thicker than air lol. It was dragging at the rear where it was all ripped off, but the front of the rear panel (tucked under the middle pattern) held fine. I just had to drive 45-50 MPH. Any slower would drag, any faster would flap lol (I was about an hour away from home, it was removed when I got home and later rebuilt).
I was just about to ask about if you hit a puddle or drove in the rain...idk if I could go through with doing this...imo
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:14 AM   #27
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I was just about to ask about if you hit a puddle or drove in the rain...idk if I could go through with doing this...imo
Normal puddles are fine. It keeps the under body cleaner. This was not like, so water on the ground. It was a low point in the road after a huge storm. The water was not above my hood, but water was splashing up onto my hood. I couldn't even drive in top gear, I had get to second or third to power through.

In all seriousness, I should have never driven a car I care about though it at all. The belly pan made no difference.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:34 AM   #28
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Normal puddles are fine. It keeps the under body cleaner. This was not like, so water on the ground. It was a low point in the road after a huge storm. The water was not above my hood, but water was splashing up onto my hood. I couldn't even drive in top gear, I had get to second or third to power through.

In all seriousness, I should have never driven a car I care about though it at all. The belly pan made no difference.
yeah, I understand and see the logic here, but I wouldn't/couldn't do it because it rains on off here and with that underbody piece getting wet/damp then the heat from the exhaust its just kinda sketchy for me to do it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:24 PM   #29
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yeah, I understand and see the logic here, but I wouldn't/couldn't do it because it rains on off here and with that underbody piece getting wet/damp then the heat from the exhaust its just kinda sketchy for me to do it.
I gotcha. I'm not offended, whats right from somebody may not be for another. I will be honest, I don't draw the same conclusion, I haven't had issues in Ohio with the season changing twice a day, but I also left cut outs for the exhaust, the tail pipes, and the under body works great for protecting the bottom of the vehicle for me so far. Like looking at my upper grille block, I can see the dents from rocks and bugs and junk-all stuff that normally would be smacking into/clogging/dirtying my radiator.
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Old 01-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #30
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So this was posted to track and detail what goes on with a little challenge I have had on here. 44 miles per gallon, in person, with a member on here.

To get 44 miles per gallon on the 16 gallon tank, the two of us will have to go 704 miles, since we travel 2% further than what the odometer says, it will be 691 miles (turning 704.82 miles).

Route is planned, from the station in North Western Ohio to Wilmington, North Carolina. Showing 707 miles. I want to just get it done and over with, but my current performance (generalized), to what it would be in weather better than now, giving the benefit of the doubt, would be about 10% of a loss. Since my record is only 46, 10% would easily drop me under it.

So the general plan is March, but details and further info will have to wait until we get closer, and some discussing with the gentleman (I believe).

I wanted to just edit my main post, but unfortunately it will not let me :/ , so I had to add this post.
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:19 PM   #31
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Im still here UltArc. Just let me know.

And you're buying lunch while we're on this journey...
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:41 PM   #32
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Sounds good to me! (We'll figure out a lunch cap later lol) But no drinks.... We're not making stops! Lol
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:46 PM   #33
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Lol.
Im bringing a piss jug...
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:44 PM   #34
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I was gonna bring some emptys and a little curtain lol
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:51 PM   #35
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How does the weekend of May 5th sound? Leave Friday morning, around 1000, and just head south. I wasn't sure if you wanted to run it until the tank totally goes, ~721 miles, or just go X amount of miles and go from there. I don't like to run it to E, between the fuel pump and then us having to walk to get to an E0 station, and carrying back fuel lol. I was thinking do about ~500 miles, but let me know what the minimum to suffice will be.

I wanted to April 11th for the run, but we are competing at the Green Grand Prix in NY at the Glen Watkins International raceway then. Since that is ~400 miles there, ~100 miles on the GWR, and then ~60 miles on the road course (not publicly released until the day of competition), then the ~400 miles back (over 12 hours of driving all together!) Not sure where you are coming from, my PM box fills quick, so if you want to say generals (like nearby city, or zip), and if we need to discuss details we can go by e-mail or PM. Eventually will have to do phone numbers. You can park at my house, we'll head up to the station, and then be out. 0900 should be a good time.
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