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Old 12-09-2013, 04:01 PM   #1
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Too much HP

All the recent talk about increased horsepower has got me wondering. At a certain point, HP/weight gets out of hand. I know of many people with the performance models that rarely take them out. When they try to give it a little gas, if they are not on their toes, it can get out of control. The stability control systems will help, but there are some concerns. If too many people cannot handle the power, the government and insurance companies may start restricting performance. The Shelby GT350 due out soon, may be an attempt to make a better handling car with minor sacrifices in HP. It gets rid of the outdated engine of the GT500 and replace it with a high performance version of the 302. With less weight up front, they can make a much better track performer with great balance.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #2
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All the recent talk about increased horsepower has got me wondering. At a certain point, HP/weight gets out of hand. I know of many people with the performance models that rarely take them out. When they try to give it a little gas, if they are not on their toes, it can get out of control. The stability control systems will help, but there are some concerns. If too many people cannot handle the power, the government and insurance companies may start restricting performance. The Shelby GT350 due out soon, may be an attempt to make a better handling car with minor sacrifices in HP. It gets rid of the outdated engine of the GT500 and replace it with a high performance version of the 302. With less weight up front, they can make a much better track performer with great balance.
The gt500 is using an engine that was designed less than 3 years ago. Surely, it is based on an older design but the same technology available on the 5.0 is available on the 5.8. The difference lies more in the way the engine is designed. The 5.0 is not a engine made for making torque comparably to the 5.4 of the past and the current 5.8L. I think the 5.8 going away in the newer models is due to the fact that they are changing the body style to a more narrow, uglier front end that can't comfortably fit a 5.8L. Couple that with the fact that Carroll Shelby passed away and the timing couldn't be any better.

Cars these days are literally computers with engines. They are no longer engines with computers on them, and I mean that in the sense that literally every aspect of the car can be controlled electronically. You can no longer just jump the ignition wire to start it up and use a screwdriver to dial in the perfect setting on the carb. Cars have things like hill assistance, stability control,variable tuned suspension, traction control, all-wheel anti lock braking, lane change blind spot sensors, back up cameras, and GPS all built in. Tell someone that all this was possible back in 1990 and they would pull out their beeper and start laughing at you. The technology is there, but the problem is that people's brains aren't increasing with the technology. The road is more dangerous than it ever has been and the ability to reach high speed quickly only makes that worse. Having said that, cars are safer than they EVER have been. I think overall, they will make what sells and everything is trial and error. Some people may prefer less power and better handling. Others like myself prefer more power and a car that challenges you to drive it with it's power. That's the glory of owning a car. It can literally be whatever you want it to be. And the technology makes it easier for that to be every single day.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #3
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The gt500 is using an engine that was designed less than 3 years ago. Surely, it is based on an older design but the same technology available on the 5.0 is available on the 5.8. The difference lies more in the way the engine is designed. The 5.0 is not a engine made for making torque comparably to the 5.4 of the past and the current 5.8L. I think the 5.8 going away in the newer models is due to the fact that they are changing the body style to a more narrow, uglier front end that can't comfortably fit a 5.8L. Couple that with the fact that Carroll Shelby passed away and the timing couldn't be any better. Cars these days are literally computers with engines. They are no longer engines with computers on them, and I mean that in the sense that literally every aspect of the car can be controlled electronically. You can no longer just jump the ignition wire to start it up and use a screwdriver to dial in the perfect setting on the carb. Cars have things like hill assistance, stability control,variable tuned suspension, traction control, all-wheel anti lock braking, lane change blind spot sensors, back up cameras, and GPS all built in. Tell someone that all this was possible back in 1990 and they would pull out their beeper and start laughing at you. The technology is there, but the problem is that people's brains aren't increasing with the technology. The road is more dangerous than it ever has been and the ability to reach high speed quickly only makes that worse. Having said that, cars are safer than they EVER have been. I think overall, they will make what sells and everything is trial and error. Some people may prefer less power and better handling. Others like myself prefer more power and a car that challenges you to drive it with it's power. That's the glory of owning a car. It can literally be whatever you want it to be. And the technology makes it easier for that to be every single day.
+1, too much HP us when you can't control a launch, struggle to drive said car, or blackout.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:02 PM   #4
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We need more hp and less computer systems. People that die while driving them are simply thinning the gene pool.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:38 PM   #5
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We need more hp and less computer systems. People that die while driving them are simply thinning the gene pool.
Lol! This
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #6
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The 5.4 is going away, IMHO. Ford is trying to consolidate as much as possible. The 5.4 is not going to play well with the future, and certainly not the 5.8. The new car is larger than the old, and I have to think it could be fitted in the engine bay. I think that Ford is looking to make turbos their key to the future.

The current Mustang has been taken over 1000 HP. My point is that the HP race may have consequences. With our legal system and trend towards a nanny government, I think that there will be too many times that some idiot will take on more than they can chew, and get someone killed. It happens every day, any way, but imagine not being able to turn off traction control to challenge yourself. Worse is the government mandating changes that restrict performance. Remember that the bad old days of detuned engines and poor performance was started by government mandates. The reality is that the future may entail self driving cars, with hands on being more and more limited. We will see little incentives for individual tastes when that happens. Likely electric motors on each wheel, with a small power plant to keep the batteries charged. Hopefully, I will be in a wheel chair by then.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #7
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The 5.4 is going away, IMHO. Ford is trying to consolidate as much as possible. The 5.4 is not going to play well with the future, and certainly not the 5.8. The new car is larger than the old, and I have to think it could be fitted in the engine bay. I think that Ford is looking to make turbos their key to the future. The current Mustang has been taken over 1000 HP. My point is that the HP race may have consequences. With our legal system and trend towards a nanny government, I think that there will be too many times that some idiot will take on more than they can chew, and get someone killed. It happens every day, any way, but imagine not being able to turn off traction control to challenge yourself. Worse is the government mandating changes that restrict performance. Remember that the bad old days of detuned engines and poor performance was started by government mandates. The reality is that the future may entail self driving cars, with hands on being more and more limited. We will see little incentives for individual tastes when that happens. Likely electric motors on each wheel, with a small power plant to keep the batteries charged. Hopefully, I will be in a wheel chair by then.
This is affecting everything. Even in the nautical world. Ships are coming with larger diesel generators meant to charge batteries and power electrical motors. Rather than the days of gas and steam turbines and gas/diesel generators to power everything else. It is a much more efficient system and also electric motors are much easier to maintain than a really shaft line. Anyways, it's not as fun for us in the automotive world, but I totally agree that this is probably where the world is going. Efficiency and reliability will play a huge part in what inspires engineers to innovate the future of the car.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:29 AM   #8
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I've always maintained that the average schmuck does not need a 300hp sedan and honestly I believe there should be a class license system. Call it big gov't if you want, would make me feel better if some idiot who can barley drive a Pruis was not allowed behind the wheel of a GT500. Hell if you buy a Boss (which is the perfect example of less power for more handling) you get free training at the track on how to use it. Hell I'm even for acutal ROAD tests in all states every 4 years and if you don't pass it oh well, tough ****, take the bus.

As far as performance, the reason cars were so dog**** slow back in the day was cost of manufacturing and all the emissions issues. You could go out in the late 60s and buy a Roadrunner making over 500hp easy, enter the smog regulations and have fun with your 140hp car. Better yet are the Vettes/Trans Ams making low 300s at best out of a 350. I mean if you pop the hood or look at a pic of a 70s/80s smog machine you may not be able to see the motor past the vac lines...

However, current gas prices and the fact that now you can buy a very nice (and ultra luxurious compared to even 10 years ago) base model sedan getting 40mpg for cheap is going to swing it all back the other way. Put a base model engine in a sedan with all the bells/whistels otherwise or the best engine in a base model sedan and the person buying is going to choose the low power/high tech almost every time. Also filling up once every 400 miles with a 12 gallon tank is really nice too...

I'm still for stricter licenseing though. If anything else killed 40,000+ people in the USA each year it would be outlawed tomorrow. Hopefully self driving cars are a reality and affordable in 20-30 years to keep the yenta talking on her phone and drinking coffee and doing her makeup all at the same time from killing you or me because she's too stupid just drive.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #9
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The scariest thing on the road is a teenager in the inside lane, talking on a cell phone (amend that to a teenager texting in the inside lane). A college town is a lesson in terror.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:16 PM   #10
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The scariest thing on the road is a teenager in the inside lane, talking on a cell phone (amend that to a teenager texting in the inside lane). A college town is a lesson in terror.
+1, a girl in my school , that I like, was behind me on the highway, texting, fixing her hair, etc.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:13 PM   #11
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+1, a girl in my school , that I like, was behind me on the highway, texting, fixing her hair, etc.
And you were driving on hwy, but watching that girl texting, fixing her hair etc. You're detail oriented bro :p
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:25 PM   #12
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And you were driving on hwy, but watching that girl texting, fixing her hair etc. You're detail oriented bro :p
I was just checking my rearview mirror... A bit more often(:
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:03 AM   #13
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the problem with automated vehs is that they will eventually be mandated and then those of us that do enjoy driving will be relegated to being passengers or driving strictly on tracks, I just hope it takes longer than 30 years to get there and then actually driving after age 80 wont be as big a deal to me..
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:26 AM   #14
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My sister got her driver license in DC without having to do a parallel parking test. This is in a city where the vast majority of parking spaces are parallel.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:05 AM   #15
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the problem with automated vehs is that they will eventually be mandated and then those of us that do enjoy driving will be relegated to being passengers or driving strictly on tracks, I just hope it takes longer than 30 years to get there and then actually driving after age 80 wont be as big a deal to me..
To tell you the truth I'd rather have automated vehicles be mandatory after some of the stuff I've seen. I'll take my racecar to the track or find a closed down road to drive on or if they offer some sort of test to be able to activate a manual drive feature I'd do that too.

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My sister got her driver license in DC without having to do a parallel parking test. This is in a city where the vast majority of parking spaces are parallel.
I can parallel park but I hate it and avoid it and IMO its not really that critical as long as you are a safe DRIVER. In NJ you can fail one section of the driving test so you don't have to be able to parallel park here either as long as you pass everything else.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:48 PM   #16
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To tell you the truth I'd rather have automated vehicles be mandatory after some of the stuff I've seen. I'll take my racecar to the track or find a closed down road to drive on or if they offer some sort of test to be able to activate a manual drive feature I'd do that too.

I can parallel park but I hate it and avoid it and IMO its not really that critical as long as you are a safe DRIVER. In NJ you can fail one section of the driving test so you don't have to be able to parallel park here either as long as you pass everything else.
Thats bs. The us is far to lax on driving tests. Many more people should be walking or riding a bike.

They should also make a reverse course mandatory. It would fail 90% of the drivers on the road.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #17
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Thats bs. The us is far to lax on driving tests. Many more people should be walking or riding a bike.

They should also make a reverse course mandatory. It would fail 90% of the drivers on the road.
Like I said mandatory ROAD tests every 4 years. And yeah 90% of ppl would fail the reverse test. "Sir, you failed automatically when you didn't look when you backed up".
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:49 PM   #18
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I do think that it would help to get certain people off the road. I would gladly pay part of the cost to find someone to drive my sister around, rather than see her wreck another car. 55 and not a clue.
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Old 12-11-2013, 03:37 PM   #19
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All of the aforementioned problems will be solved with the autonomous cars.
They already have cars that will park themselves. You may want to look into one Scotty, since you're having trouble parallel parking.
Probably, you won't even need a license to operate an autonomous vehicle. It will do everything. Even pay the speeding tickets I guess. I wonder how insurance will work?
Hmmm, I wonder what the army of lawyers who work for the various automakers are thinking about all of the liability that an autonomous car could create...
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:05 PM   #20
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All of the aforementioned problems will be solved with the autonomous cars.
They already have cars that will park themselves. You may want to look into one Scotty, since you're having trouble parallel parking.
Probably, you won't even need a license to operate an autonomous vehicle. It will do everything. Even pay the speeding tickets I guess. I wonder how insurance will work?
Hmmm, I wonder what the army of lawyers who work for the various automakers are thinking about all of the liability that an autonomous car could create...
The problem with autonomous cars would be they'd have to be like quadruple redundant and run constant self checks which I guess would be fine. And you'd have to have autonomous cars ONLY roads with some sort of way to keep morons with non autonomous cars off.

And I can parallel park like a boss, I passed my driving test 100% at 17 yrs old in a stick shift (parents refused to let me learn on an auto which I am grateful for). My sister... not so much lol.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:42 PM   #21
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This is what I've been saying for years.
They need to make people do a behind the wheel test at ages 16 (or whatever your state is), 20, 25, 35, 45, 55, 60, 65.... Then have a written test for everyone every 5 years. You get 2 tries at each test and if you fail both tried you lose your license and must wait 3 months for every subsequent test.
Also, cell phones should be outlawed while operating a vehicle. No speakerphone, no Bluetooth headset, no texting, etc. The punishment for this is taking both the behind the wheel and written test ASAP.
Since I'm on this topic I will tackle the jacked up speed limits. A speed limit should be something that 90% of drivers on that road will not exceed, not the other way around. So for example, say you are on a highway and the speed limit is 90mph, I sure don't foresee 10+% of drivers wanting to exceed that. The reason I want to see this is 1) many speed limits were set decades ago and are irreverent to the cars today, 2) studies have shown that when speed limits go up in rural and highway environments, wrecks go down (this came from a video I saw on Jalopnik) , 3) people drive distracted because they are bored, so let's give then a reason to pay attention, and most importantly 4) SPEEEEEEED.
Is there anything that you want me to rant on as well?

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------

Looks like I completely forgot what this thread was about, so I will just leave you with a little quote. "If you can leave 2 solid black lines from the exit of one corner to the start of the next, only then do you have enough power."
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:32 PM   #22
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I think this thread was about parallel parking or something like that.

The problem that I have with the cellphone laws is that it becomes a little intrusive for my taste. I know that they are distracting and texting DEFINITELY should be against the law.
Regarding having conversations on the phone though, I don't see the difference between that and having a conversation with a passenger in the car.
What's next? No drinking bottled water while driving? No eating cookies? You can't listen to the stereo anymore? Drive with unruly kids in the car?
Im just afraid that our freedom is being chipped away so slowly that it's hard to tell...
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:05 AM   #23
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keep the autonomous cars, I would rather worry about the idiots on the roads than give up my freedom to drive and ride my motorcycles where,when and in the manner I choose.

get in a veh punch in a destination and go along like a lemming, no thanks, you can have the swaddling like a baby all safe and secure from the world, me ill take actually driving.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:02 AM   #24
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I think this thread was about parallel parking or something like that.

The problem that I have with the cellphone laws is that it becomes a little intrusive for my taste. I know that they are distracting and texting DEFINITELY should be against the law.
Regarding having conversations on the phone though, I don't see the difference between that and having a conversation with a passenger in the car.
What's next? No drinking bottled water while driving? No eating cookies? You can't listen to the stereo anymore? Drive with unruly kids in the car?
Im just afraid that our freedom is being chipped away so slowly that it's hard to tell...
The difference between taking on a phone and taking in person is that it is much harder to understand the person on the phone. This requires much more attention, in turn taking attention of the road.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:44 AM   #25
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keep the autonomous cars, I would rather worry about the idiots on the roads than give up my freedom to drive and ride my motorcycles where,when and in the manner I choose.

get in a veh punch in a destination and go along like a lemming, no thanks, you can have the swaddling like a baby all safe and secure from the world, me ill take actually driving.
I totally get where you are coming from but I'm not advocating for some crazy assed gov't rule that takes away a bunch of civil liberties. What we have on a daily basis is literally millions of 2 ton missiles travelling at a high rate of speed with untrained operators. That is not something I've always been exactly comfortable with. I'm amazed MORE wrecks don't happen and its a testament to the safety features on the cars I guess. Maybe autonomous mandatory vehicles is overkill but I sure as hell see insurance rates being next to nothing if you only have a self drive vehicle in the future as well as self drive only roads/highways. Obviously you'd have grandfathered in vehicles like how classic cars before seat belts do not need a retrofit and cars over XX years are not inspectable etc...

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The difference between taking on a phone and taking in person is that it is much harder to understand the person on the phone. This requires much more attention, in turn taking attention of the road.
Yep, I see plenty of people getting REALLY into their phone conversations behind the wheel even hands free. I've said before maybe there should be some sort of signal deadening materials built into cars but then people would just roll down the windows even in 100 degree or 0 degree or raining weather. Yes we need to keep our freedoms but if its a legit danger to someone else... no, you don't have the right. I don't want my kid to be in danger because some idiot HAS to make a phone call home and has enough trouble peeing in the bowl without making a mess much less driving or driving AND talking at the same time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:46 AM   #26
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I'm not advocating for some crazy assed gov't rule that takes away a bunch of civil liberties. What we have on a daily basis is literally millions of 2 ton missiles travelling at a high rate of speed with untrained operators. That is not something I've always been exactly comfortable with.


Yes we need to keep our freedoms but if its a legit danger to someone else... no.
yes you are, if your not comfortable being on the roads, take public transit. I have ridden two wheels all over this country, grew up riding in DC traffic, when they come out with self driven cars you go right on ahead and lemming on up, ill be the outlaw motorcycle/mustang zipping past you.

the world is a dangerous place, you cant idiot proof it , lawn darts were Darwinism at work.
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