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Old 02-14-2014, 08:59 PM   #36
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Now, back on topic or /thread.[/QUOTE]


Maybe you should go to your GM forums instead of trying incite a riot here on ME, Im not a GM fan boy and never will be, try going to Camaro5 and they will probably agree with you. I dont.

In fact since you love the LS1 so much, why are you even on a Mustang forum?

As I said stock for stock, the LS1 wont run with a Coyote no matter how you look at it and try change around everything in your favor.

And you failed to mention the vaunted 305 Chevy, it wont, never did and never will run with the 4.6 Ford.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:23 PM   #37
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It seems to me like Ish is presenting facts, Scotty is backing them, and then everybody else is going "But the Mustang is the bestest thing in the world and everybody who says anything bad about it can go rot in hell!!"
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mile high JDF View Post
It seems to me like Ish is presenting facts, Scotty is backing them, and then everybody else is going "But the Mustang is the bestest thing in the world and everybody who says anything bad about it can go rot in hell!!"

This exactly^
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:29 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Vintage Iron View Post
Now, back on topic or /thread.

Maybe you should go to your GM forums instead of trying incite a riot here on ME, Im not a GM fan boy and never will be, try going to Camaro5 and they will probably agree with you. I dont.

In fact since you love the LS1 so much, why are you even on a Mustang forum?

As I said stock for stock, the LS1 wont run with a Coyote no matter how you look at it and try change around everything in your favor.

And you failed to mention the vaunted 305 Chevy, it wont, never did and never will run with the 4.6 Ford.[/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to incite a riot on this site, just stating truths.

I own a 14 Mustang, a 99 Camaro and a 93 Talon Tsi.

There was never any mention of an LS1 vs Coyote stock for stock, so I have no idea where you are coming up with this. Everyone knows the Coyote is a great engine. A fair comparison would be a Coyote vs LS3 stock for stock.

Stock internals vs stock internals, a 4.8L LSx would own a Coyote 5.0. When was the last time anyone has heard of a stock block, stock internal Coyote putting down over 1200 hp??? Never is my guess.

Stock GM LS Engine - Big Bang Theory - Hot Rod Magazine

As for your fascination with the 305, it hasn't been in a new car since 1993.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:51 PM   #40
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I dont have a fasination with the 305 or anything Chevrolet for that matter and if i did I would own one and be on their forum(s). I am just comparing apples to apples, Chevy doesnt, they use cubic inches to over power the 4.6's and now try with the 6.2 trying to over power the 5.0 coyote with cubic inches again. You obviously know more about engines than i do but I do know that if I am gonna compare an engine to another engine that I compare apples to apples and not oranges to apples.

So I will take my STOCK 5.0 anyday up against your STOCK LS1 or LS3 and walk you everytime.

And if you claim to have outrun a Ford GT with a LS1, back it up with video or as they say it didnt happen. I personally dont beleive it.

Thats great that you own a Mustang but why didnt you buy a Camaro since your so in love with Chevy?
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:51 PM   #41
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Theres always so much butthurt in these threads. Thats why i read them.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:54 PM   #42
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:06 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by PonyBoyV6 View Post
Theres always so much butthurt in these threads. Thats why i read them.

Im not butthurt about anything I am just saying back it up if you outran a Ford Gt with photos or video, anyone can claim anything. So videos or it didnt happen and a Ford GT wasnt even made for the 1/4 mile to begin with.

And the LS1 isnt the only engine that can put out 1200hp check you tube there are plenty of Ford engines doing the same if not more.

The LS engines are great engines no one doubts that even me but dont try and compare a 4.6 Ford against and LS1, there is no comparison. Compare the old Chevrolet 305 which sucked to a 4.6 or a 5.0 (not coyote) and the Ford wins everytime but Chevy people refuse to compare apples to apples they only campre something when its in their favor, as usual.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:11 PM   #44
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Now, back on topic or /

In fact since you love the LS1 so much, why are you even on a Mustang forum?

Wow...I own two T/As and a Mustang. Should I not be out here because I own something other than what the forum is dedicated to?

I bought a Mustang because they have not made T/As since 2002 and I did not want to buy a high mileage vehicle for a Spring through Fall daily driver. I did it because I do not like the way the retro Camaros look. I love the retro look of the Mustangs. I also love the Challenger retro look. I used to own a '73 Cuda, but Dodge lost out because they didn't offer a convertible but the Mustang did.

Some of us just like American cars in general, no matter what label is on it.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:15 PM   #45
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Wow...I own two T/As and a Mustang. Should I not be out here because I own something other than what the forum is dedicated to?

I bought a Mustang because they have not made T/As since 2002 and I did not want to buy a high mileage vehicle for a Spring through Fall daily driver. I did it because I do not like the way the retro Camaros look. I love the retro look of the Mustangs. I also love the Challenger retro look. I used to own a '73 Cuda, but Dodge lost out because they didn't offer a convertible but the Mustang did.

Some of us just like American cars in general, no matter what label is on it.
Thats not my point. My point is dont sit around and bash Ford's in general if you own something else. I also love some GM cars and Mopar's but I dont sit around knock them on Mopar or Chevy forums....

Here ya go, here is a 1200hp 4.6 Ford.

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Old 02-14-2014, 10:28 PM   #46
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Here is a 428 Ford small block 1500hp




and a 1200hp 4.6 Ford

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Old 02-14-2014, 10:32 PM   #47
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And here is the new Copo Camaro vs Cobra Jet Mustang. Camaro loses.

So we can go tit for tat all day long on who has the best engines and still wont prove anything. But at least you get my point.

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Old 02-14-2014, 10:42 PM   #48
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Lol this thread keeps getting better and better. Why the hell is anyone comparing the stock LS1 to stock Coyote? And if that is the case does the LS1 get a handicap for being a mid 1990s design? As for the LS3, Coyote walks it in what? If its in a Vette I'll take the Vette. Also the ZL1 is a better road course car than the GT500, just saying.

I think most of all I just don't get the fanboyism and the ridiculous idea that if you like Mustangs you can't like a Camaro or TA as well. Why would I not take a serious look at an all aluminum small block paired to a wide ratio T-56 if I wanted a fast straight line car for cheap? Not everyone wants a $400/mo car payment for one vehicle. If you are looking to go fast for not a super lot of money its pretty much impossible to beat a LS1 F-body.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:54 PM   #49
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As for the LS3, Coyote walks it in what?

The Coyote 5.0 walks the LS3's in the 1/4 all day long.

I can agree if I had to choose between a 4.6 and a LS1 I take the LS1, but it would be hard to stomach. I would have to hold my nose to drive it. If its a Coyote or LS1 I take the Coyote or even a 5.0 pushrod motor, cause they as cheap to build if not cheaper than a LS1.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:09 PM   #50
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I have beat a couple of camaros with the mach 1 I used to have including a new SS oh and a ws6, but I also got beat by a camaro with an lsx supposedly pushing 500hp but he only pulled like 2 cars on me. Pulled half a car on that new SS with just a catback, short throw shifter and frpp aluminum drive shaft, don't know if it was auto or stick but it wasn't all that.

I was sure that an NA mach 1 was a drivers race with an ls1 stock for stock so Idk where this "it has to have a supercharger in order to beat and ls1" came from.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:31 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Vintage Iron View Post
I dont have a fasination with the 305 or anything Chevrolet for that matter and if i did I would own one and be on their forum(s). I am just comparing apples to apples, Chevy doesnt, they use cubic inches to over power the 4.6's and now try with the 6.2 trying to over power the 5.0 coyote with cubic inches again. You obviously know more about engines than i do but I do know that if I am gonna compare an engine to another engine that I compare apples to apples and not oranges to apples.

So I will take my STOCK 5.0 anyday up against your STOCK LS1 or LS3 and walk you everytime.

And if you claim to have outrun a Ford GT with a LS1, back it up with video or as they say it didnt happen. I personally dont beleive it.

Thats great that you own a Mustang but why didnt you buy a Camaro since your so in love with Chevy?
You aren't comparing apples to apples, you are comparing horsepower per displacement which I mentioned with examples in my second post in this thread.

Stock for stock, a Coyote would pull away from an LS1 Fbody. Nobody on earth would argue that fact. An LS3 Camaro is a different story and basically comes down to a drivers race.

However, mod for mod, an LSx is cheaper to get more power out of and is simply capable of more power.

A full bolt on and cam'd LS1 can and will run with a full bolt on Coyote. This is well known.

As for my car, it is far from stock. It puts down 436rwhp @ 6300 and 403lbs ft @ 4900 on motor and 588 rwhp and 649lb ft on a 150 shot. It's a 6 speed car with 3.42 gears and 285/40-17 tires. It traps 7.2 @ 100 in the 1/8 and 11.4 @ 129 MPH on a 150 shot and 12.8 @ 115 on motor both with terrible 60's and traction issues. Again, normal tires not DR or cheater slicks because of the stock 10 bolt. The car was built as a 50 - 150 roll race car and is very effective at that. For the record, it is one of the fastest M6 stock 10 bolt cars in the world.

I'm sorry that I can't go back in time and record a race that took place several years ago to please you.

I can post a video of my car going from 50 - 140 in a single gear without nitrous with a rough tune under 4500 rpm. Remember, that is just one gear as I was data logging and without the nitrous. Also, don't mind all the lights on my dash being lit up, like I said, I was in the process of tuning it.



As for the videos you posted, they stand no purpose.

Those aren't naturally aspirated and they are not stock bottom end, stock block engines either. Those are fully built race engines.

The one I posted is over 1000 hp without nitrous, turbos or superchargers. The link I posted, if you had bothered to read was a 4.8L GM truck engine from a junkyard that they strapped a pair of big turbos to and set out to blow it up to see what it's limits were. When they dyno'd over 1200 hp, they decided to crack it open and see what condition it was in.

Again, that was a stock block, stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons and stock rings that are found in every 4.8L GM truck engine. That is absolutely amazing, regardless of what part of Detroit your car comes from.

The internals of the Coyote are known to let go around 700 rwhp. The 4.6's (except the 03-04 Cobra) are known to let go around 450 rwhp.


I am not trying to argue that the Camaro is better than a Mustang, that comes down to personal preference. I thought the 2014 Mustang was a better car than a 2014 Camaro for what I was looking for, hence why I bought one.

Fact is, until 2011 with the new 3.7 and 5.0, Ford was seriously behind the times. The 2002 Fbodys were the fastest affordable ($35,000 or less) muscle cars available until the Challenger SRT and 2009 Camaro SS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red5.0 View Post
I was sure that an NA mach 1 was a drivers race with an ls1 stock for stock so Idk where this "it has to have a supercharger in order to beat and ls1" came from.
Tests by motortrend.
Mach 1 was tested at 0 - 60 in 5.2 and 13.6 @ 105 in the 1/4. 2002 Camaro SS was tested at 0 - 60 in 5.0 and 13.5@ 107.4 in the 1/4.

Close enough to be a drivers race, however, the SS is starting to put distance on the Mach 1. Mod for mod, it gets ugly quickly for the Mach. No doubt, the Mach 1 was the best NA Mustang until the Coyote 5.0.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:33 PM   #52
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Should change the name of the thread to Has anyone beat a mustang so all the camaro babys can jerk off together... pretty much the case anyway.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:45 PM   #53
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Whats the point of this entire argument?

4.6 2v < LS1
4.6 4v = LS1 (about, since there was that thing with the 99 4vs that caused them to produce less power, but was fixed with the recall)
LS1< 5.0
LS2< 5.0
LS3=5.0

Once you start modding its all who has the deeper pocket.

/thread.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:45 PM   #54
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You aren't comparing apples to apples, you are comparing horsepower per displacement which I mentioned with examples in my second post in this thread.

Stock for stock, a Coyote would pull away from an LS1 Fbody. Nobody on earth would argue that fact. An LS3 Camaro is a different story and basically comes down to a drivers race.

However, mod for mod, an LSx is cheaper to get more power out of and is simply capable of more power.

A full bolt on and cam'd LS1 can and will run with a full bolt on Coyote. This is well known.

As for my car, it is far from stock. It puts down 436rwhp @ 6300 and 403lbs ft @ 4900 on motor and 588 rwhp and 649lb ft on a 150 shot. It's a 6 speed car with 3.42 gears and 285/40-17 tires. It traps 7.2 @ 100 in the 1/8 and 11.4 @ 129 MPH on a 150 shot and 12.8 @ 115 on motor both with terrible 60's and traction issues. Again, normal tires not DR or cheater slicks because of the stock 10 bolt. The car was built as a 50 - 150 roll race car and is very effective at that. For the record, it is one of the fastest M6 stock 10 bolt cars in the world.

I'm sorry that I can't go back in time and record a race that took place several years ago to please you.

I can post a video of my car going from 50 - 140 in a single gear without nitrous with a rough tune under 4500 rpm. Remember, that is just one gear as I was data logging and without the nitrous. Also, don't mind all the lights on my dash being lit up, like I said, I was in the process of tuning it.



As for the videos you posted, they stand no purpose.

Those aren't naturally aspirated and they are not stock bottom end, stock block engines either. Those are fully built race engines.

The one I posted is over 1000 hp without nitrous, turbos or superchargers. The link I posted, if you had bothered to read was a 4.8L GM truck engine from a junkyard that they strapped a pair of big turbos to and set out to blow it up to see what it's limits were. When they dyno'd over 1200 hp, they decided to crack it open and see what condition it was in.

Again, that was a stock block, stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons and stock rings that are found in every 4.8L GM truck engine. That is absolutely amazing, regardless of what part of Detroit your car comes from.

The internals of the Coyote are known to let go around 700 rwhp. The 4.6's (except the 03-04 Cobra) are known to let go around 450 rwhp.


I am not trying to argue that the Camaro is better than a Mustang, that comes down to personal preference. I thought the 2014 Mustang was a better car than a 2014 Camaro for what I was looking for, hence why I bought one.

Fact is, until 2011 with the new 3.7 and 5.0, Ford was seriously behind the times. The 2002 Fbodys were the fastest affordable ($35,000 or less) muscle cars available until the Challenger SRT and 2009 Camaro SS.




Tests by motortrend.
Mach 1 was tested at 0 - 60 in 5.2 and 13.6 @ 105 in the 1/4. 2002 Camaro SS was tested at 0 - 60 in 5.0 and 13.5@ 107.4 in the 1/4.

Close enough to be a drivers race, however, the SS is starting to put distance on the Mach 1. Mod for mod, it gets ugly quickly for the Mach. No doubt, the Mach 1 was the best NA Mustang until the Coyote 5.0.
Have definitely seen better times then those from both cars. A 13.19 at 106 for the mach by "5.0 Mustang and super fords" and I have heard of the camaros reaching 12.9 or a 13 flat just haven't searched up any magazine times to really see for myself but they definitely are a drivers race.

Oh I don't disagree with that, mod for mod the camaro is a lot cheaper and easier to make more power out of.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:47 PM   #55
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No offense taken. I get a laugh out of all the LSx threads on Ford forums.



Come to think of it, I have never seen a thread about how to make an LT1 or LSx outrun a 2v or 4v 4.6 NA Mustang on any forum ... evar.



I'm sure there would only be a single reply and it would probably be "Gas pedal .. floor it. /thread"

They don't worry about beating a termi? :O
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:49 PM   #56
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They don't worry about beating a termi? :O
Stock for stock Termi will win. But there comes the whole modded argument.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:04 AM   #57
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Stock for stock Termi will win. But there comes the whole modded argument.

Endless cycle. Can't Ricers make 1200 hp with mods too? Like wtf is the point in arguing that lol
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:07 AM   #58
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Endless cycle. Can't Ricers make 1200 hp with mods too? Like wtf is the point in arguing that lol
exactly
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:13 AM   #59
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Has anyone beat a Camaro

I don't like camaros either and will admit they are our closest rivals, but this argue meant is just stupid. At the end of the day anything can be made fast with mods, and there will always be something faster (yes even faster than the beloved ls1.)

When you see a camaro, put the rubber on the ground and smoke it. I had a v6 (2000's era) camaro rev at me the other day. I giggled because it's motor tick was louder than it's exhaust. Hehehe
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:55 AM   #60
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Can we agree that the ls1 reign of terror was taken down a notch by the coyote?

I would still buy one though I think the lt1 body looks better than the ls1 body. Doesn't matter I would take either engine





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Old 02-15-2014, 02:06 AM   #61
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Lol this thread keeps getting better and better. Why the hell is anyone comparing the stock LS1 to stock Coyote? And if that is the case does the LS1 get a handicap for being a mid 1990s design? As for the LS3, Coyote walks it in what? If its in a Vette I'll take the Vette. Also the ZL1 is a better road course car than the GT500, just saying.

I think most of all I just don't get the fanboyism and the ridiculous idea that if you like Mustangs you can't like a Camaro or TA as well. Why would I not take a serious look at an all aluminum small block paired to a wide ratio T-56 if I wanted a fast straight line car for cheap? Not everyone wants a $400/mo car payment for one vehicle. If you are looking to go fast for not a super lot of money its pretty much impossible to beat a LS1 F-body.

I agree with you on everything EXCEPT the zl1 being a better road coarse car. Yeah it beats the gt500 on some tracks but the gt500 beats it on others. As far as heat soak, you get it with every FI car. Brake fade, there really is hardly any in the gt500.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:09 AM   #62
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Why is everyone in here so scared to say something bad about camaros... every thread where camaros get brought up someone starts drooling over the damn LS1... wtf I thought this was mustang evolution not camaro evolution!

PREACH!!
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:06 AM   #63
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Should change the name of the thread to Has anyone beat a mustang so all the camaro babys can jerk off together... pretty much the case anyway.
Did you get made fun of by a bunch of LS1 owners as a teenager or something?

I think its funny on a Mustang forum when someone just starts bashing LS1s and ppl who have driven them come in and are like "no its actually a great engine" its like the end of the world.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:21 AM   #64
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Maybe you outta git'ya one of those LS1's....
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:29 AM   #65
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I really don't see why everyone got so butt hurt about this ****. The ls1 is a GREAT motor. And without the camaro mustangs more then likely wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now. And who knows, the termi might not have came to be. I do not like camaros do to them being ugly af, but you can't deny the performance of them is damn good. Who would've thought there would be fanboys on a certain forum lol
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:33 AM   #66
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Did you get made fun of by a bunch of LS1 owners as a teenager or something?

I think its funny on a Mustang forum when someone just starts bashing LS1s and ppl who have driven them come in and are like "no its actually a great engine" its like the end of the world.

I didnt start bashing the ss until others had already started talking trash about the mustang. And I noticed from other forums the same people keep jumping in on people for saying anything about their beloved ls1. I read other threads where the same thing happened but enough is enough.

I have friends with camaros and we make fun of each other every chance we get... but Im on a mustang forum and can care less about a camaro and find it amazing that so many camaro lovers are on this site.

Dont blame me for standing up to the fact that I think camaros and chevy are garage... my opinion and im sticking to it... if you like them and expect people to only say nice stuff about them anytime it gets brought up you might need to spend your time on more camaro specific forums.

I respect the notion of American Muscle between the big three but besides that Im riding with Ford whether we have the bigger baddest engines or not... whether the quarter mile times are faster or not... I grew up around muatangs and thats that.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:38 AM   #67
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And no... im not saying that if you own a chevy you cant be on this forum so dont start that argument back up. Drive what makes you happy... if someone doesnt like it ol well. Its just an opinion... no one here pays your bills or makes sure you go to church every sunday... its a discussion forum nothing more!!
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:41 AM   #68
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I thought it was a well known fact that mustangs ALWAYS needed a blower to keep up with camaros. They are a great n/a motor yes, but our cars go great with f/i. No we can't build a 900 or 1000hp stock but the modular blocks can take a lot. The right set of Pistons n rods and you can just up the boost on a little 4.6 or 5.0


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Old 02-15-2014, 10:45 AM   #69
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I didnt start bashing the ss until others had already started talking trash about the mustang. And I noticed from other forums the same people keep jumping in on people for saying anything about their beloved ls1. I read other threads where the same thing happened but enough is enough.

I have friends with camaros and we make fun of each other every chance we get... but Im on a mustang forum and can care less about a camaro and find it amazing that so many camaro lovers are on this site.

Dont blame me for standing up to the fact that I think camaros and chevy are garage... my opinion and im sticking to it... if you like them and expect people to only say nice stuff about them anytime it gets brought up you might need to spend your time on more camaro specific forums.

I respect the notion of American Muscle between the big three but besides that Im riding with Ford whether we have the bigger baddest engines or not... whether the quarter mile times are faster or not... I grew up around muatangs and thats that.
Yea there are 3-4 Chevy butt kissers in this thread...I dont get it if I loved the Chevy's so much I would hang out on Chevy forums where we could all pat each other on the *** as to what a great motor the LS1 is....
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:46 AM   #70
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Anyway back on topic.

I beat an 01 auto ss with full exhaust
02 ss auto bone stock
2010 ss catback only auto

Got absolutely demolished by a 00 z28 hci geared 6spd

And got beat by about 3 cars from 40-130 to a 2012 auto ss

All in my 04 Mach with full exhaust
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