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Old 06-19-2014, 01:41 PM   #36
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Lol, how about any Chrysler product?
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:31 PM   #37
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Why is it that GM has now asked the courts for liability protection on this latest round of recall issues?

Because they know they are in for a huge amount of claims.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:37 PM   #38
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Again, all manufacturers have a vested interest in protecting their name and brand. GM is being "accused" of trying to cover it up. It has not been proven that was the intent. Did Ford cover up the Firestone tire issue by passing blame to Firestone and not admitting it was their idea to run the tires at too low of an air pressure and with the wrong suspension calibration? Did Ford cover up the fact that they knew the Explorer was prone to roll overs? During testing they found that it was and that's why they lowered the air pressure of the tires to 26. Do you consider this a cover up.

Again, all manufacturers have issues with something that we like to gripe about, but 13 people have died supposedly because of this ignition issue and 250 died because of the Firestone/Explorer issue. The ignition issue is caused by consumer related causes while the rollovers weren't. I'm sure the ignition parts passed all tests when tested under "normal" use tests. Adding a ton of keys, tags, and other junk to a key ring is beyond the manufacturer specs.

An example would be overloading a pickup truck. It's designed to hold 1/2 ton and you load it with 3/4 ton of merchandise. You then try to drive it as if it were unloaded and the truck overheats and things break. Is it the manufacturers fault that the truck failed or the consumer for overloading it?

Bumping the key fob with your knee and shutting off the car should never happen anyway, not even under "extreme" circumstances. Under inflating tires is stupid yes, but GM was just ****ty engineering. Did you see the worker who came out and said that he knew of the issues and presented them to the company but they told him to be quiet?
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:17 AM   #39
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GM has a culture that rewards managers for their incompetence. There are numerous stories that show how they treat good engineers poorly. It is typical of the mega organization bureaucratic failure. Government is a prime example by the way they reward managers that play the game, over those who are effective and benefitting the public. The VA scandal is typical of what goes on with large management groups interested in their own fortunes over all else.

GM is the worse of the American manufacturers, but some of the European and Asian companies have done worse.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:55 AM   #40
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I was talking to a friend yesterday that has a '13 SS. He said his knee is 5-6" from the key fob when he's driving so he didn't understand how someone's knee is hitting the key. I asked him to pretend he put cruise control on and moved his foot off the thottle back to the seat. This brought his knee up near the key. Is this what's happening with the Camaro? I can do the same thing with the Mustang. One report said that GM announced a tall person sitting too close to the wheel is the only instance of the knee hitting the key. This sounds like they are reaching to find fault. Any tall person sitting too close can hit their knee on the fey fob, steering column or dash.

Also, you turn the key clockwise to start the car. How does a knee hitting the key force the bottom of the key to rotate counter clockwise? I think they are over scrutinizing things now that the government has bee involved in this company. We all know the government can't run a successful business and full of cover ups and scandals. Is gov't motors another failed attempt by the gov't to run a business? They did run it since 2009
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:18 AM   #41
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I was talking to a friend yesterday that has a '13 SS. He said his knee is 5-6" from the key fob when he's driving so he didn't understand how someone's knee is hitting the key. I asked him to pretend he put cruise control on and moved his foot off the thottle back to the seat. This brought his knee up near the key. Is this what's happening with the Camaro? I can do the same thing with the Mustang. One report said that GM announced a tall person sitting too close to the wheel is the only instance of the knee hitting the key. This sounds like they are reaching to find fault. Any tall person sitting too close can hit their knee on the fey fob, steering column or dash.
I drive my friends 2013 1LE Camaro quite frequently. I'm 6'3 with a 36" inseam and my knee is not anywhere close to the key in any normal driving situation. That said, I can raise my knee up enough to hit the key and turn the car off, it's not something that would happen by accident however.

The issue as I have been told, is that with the key being a switchblade type key, that people who have a crap ton of keys and other things on their key chains can pin that between the dash and their knee, putting downward force on the key and thus turning the car off, which seeing some peoples key chains is very likely to happen in any car.

GM is basically paranoid at this point and wanting to squash any and all future problems, before they become problems.

This video does a great job of showing the issue and how much you would have to go out of your way to turn the car off.

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Old 06-23-2014, 09:46 AM   #42
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If there was stuff on the key it would be easy

That was a great video. The thing was there was not a bunch of crap hanging off the key like most people have. If there was it would be easy for that lady to hit it with her knee and shut it off.
It still should NOT have been covered up for years by GM executives even if they thought it was a driver problem and not a hardware problem.
If I did have a GM car with that stupid looking huge key I would not have guessed something like this could ever happen.
I remember when you had the ignition switch on the dash. That is where it should have been all along.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:49 PM   #43
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I didn't realize the key is inserted at the 3-6 o'clock position. When the key is on, it's sitting at 10-4. That is a crappy position. I thought it was like my other cars with a more straight up config when in the "on" position.

You do realize that GM is not the only one with that huge key, right? Many Ford cars have it also. Look at the size of this fob for the new Fusion. It's not even open here!!! Now flip it open and look how large that key is! Do you seriously expect me to believe that this issue can only happen to GM. Plug that monster in, put a 6' 2" person sitting too close to the wheel like in the vide and see if his knee does the same thing on the Fusion. I bet it does!

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Old 06-23-2014, 04:22 PM   #44
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That's an intelligent response. Is it you that feels butt hurt? Grow up. I'm trying to prove that all manufacturers have their issues and if anyone thinks differently, they need to do more research. I've been a GM guy my entire life and this is my first Mustang. Within 400 miles, I had an engine tick and suspension squeak that required the rear axle be replaced. It's so common that there are many threads about it on these forums, so don't think there aren't issues across the board.



I just tried my Mustang key to see where it sits and when I'm driving, the key is about 2" from my knee. I could easily bump the key just by moving my leg if I put cruise control on. The big difference is the position of the key when it's on. The Mustang key is at 7 and 1. It's almost impossible to hit the bottom of the key to the point where it would turn the ignition off. Any key sitting almost horizontal when "on" is stupid regardless of who the manufacturer is. I see the Ford F150 has it horizontal also. Not sure I understand that thinking.

Just curious since you've been a GM guy your life you said. What made you switch to Ford for your latest car?


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Old 06-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #45
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I like the Mustang better than the new Camaro as far as styling, sound and cost. I also like the new Challenger better than the new Camaro. I should clarify that I've always been a Chevy guy, not always GM. I've also always enjoyed the Mustangs and was a fan of the '86 and also the '93. Not so much the '94 on up, but I almost brought home a 2003 GT/Mach 1 back in '03.

When looking for a new car, I started looking at the V6 Mustang because it looked better in base configuration than the base V6 Camaro. I moved up to a V8 and knew I couldn't get an SS for the same price. I have my complaints of all manufacturers, Chevy included. I'm not that closed minded. Plus, this is the car my son wanted. He's 16 and when we looked at all the variables, he was the most comfortable with the Mustang as a new car. He didn't like the visibility out of the Camaro. His first choice was an IROC-Z or Trans Am, but his mother said they were too old. He then decided on a 2006 GTO and she said that it might be too new, but old enough to be traded in/sold because of issues or problems. With that, the decision was made that we go new. There's not much American made performance out there that appealed to him. I raised him well and I think we made the right choice. That doesn't mean my next truck will be a Ford, but since I don't like the look of the Chevy, it won't be that either!!!
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:43 PM   #46
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I like the Mustang better than the new Camaro as far as styling, sound and cost. I also like the new Challenger better than the new Camaro. I should clarify that I've always been a Chevy guy, not always GM. I've also always enjoyed the Mustangs and was a fan of the '86 and also the '93. Not so much the '94 on up, but I almost brought home a 2003 GT/Mach 1 back in '03.

When looking for a new car, I started looking at the V6 Mustang because it looked better in base configuration than the base V6 Camaro. I moved up to a V8 and knew I couldn't get an SS for the same price. I have my complaints of all manufacturers, Chevy included. I'm not that closed minded. Plus, this is the car my son wanted. He's 16 and when we looked at all the variables, he was the most comfortable with the Mustang as a new car. He didn't like the visibility out of the Camaro. His first choice was an IROC-Z or Trans Am, but his mother said they were too old. He then decided on a 2006 GTO and she said that it might be too new, but old enough to be traded in/sold because of issues or problems. With that, the decision was made that we go new. There's not much American made performance out there that appealed to him. I raised him well and I think we made the right choice. That doesn't mean my next truck will be a Ford, but since I don't like the look of the Chevy, it won't be that either!!!

Ok. That's pretty cool. As I said I was just wondering, wasn't trying to make a point or anything.


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Old 06-23-2014, 05:05 PM   #47
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Yea I'm more of a Ford guy but can admire all different brands. (Vette is parents, but I've driven it and been around it a lot... I could go sit in it right now and take a pic if you want lol)
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:28 PM   #48
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Like I said before, but some don't want to hear it...All manufacturers have issues. Will you agree that Ford tried covering up the issue of the Explorer flipping over due to tire separation and placed the blame on Firestone, where more than 13 people died? A friend of mine almost died on I-95 when his tires separated, causing him to swerve into the center median where the vehicle rolled 10x. He had spinal injuries and years of therapy to get better. He was one of the first ones to experience this failure so he didn't get to partake in the lawsuit and its findings.

Here's one for you. Sound familiar?
Pattern Of Ford Cover-Ups? - CBS News

Years of lawsuits and complaints raise new questions about Ford Escape recall - ABC15 Arizona

The only reason GM is being blamed as covering it up is because it makes headlines. A cover-up improves ratings as people are now interested. The main stream media only reports what works for sensationalism. The gov't only gets involved to find answers when the media makes such a big deal about a subject, they feel they need to respond and show how they take care of the people by finding results.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:48 PM   #49
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Yea everyone covers stuff up and has issues.... I think the main reason GM is on blast is because of the bailout, everyone knows about that, so now people will be more interested.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:55 PM   #50
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Ok guys, keep it civil. Everyone can have their own opinions without resorting to mudslinging.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:02 PM   #51
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Like I said before, but some don't want to hear it...All manufacturers have issues. Will you agree that Ford tried covering up the issue of the Explorer flipping over due to tire separation and placed the blame on Firestone, where more than 13 people died? A friend of mine almost died on I-95 when his tires separated, causing him to swerve into the center median where the vehicle rolled 10x. He had spinal injuries and years of therapy to get better. He was one of the first ones to experience this failure so he didn't get to partake in the lawsuit and its findings.

Here's one for you. Sound familiar?
Pattern Of Ford Cover-Ups? - CBS News

Years of lawsuits and complaints raise new questions about Ford Escape recall - ABC15 Arizona

The only reason GM is being blamed as covering it up is because it makes headlines. A cover-up improves ratings as people are now interested. The main stream media only reports what works for sensationalism. The gov't only gets involved to find answers when the media makes such a big deal about a subject, they feel they need to respond and show how they take care of the people by finding results.

I will agree that they all have problems. I'm not sayin that ford is perfect by any means lol.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:52 PM   #52
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The 4 cylinder is most likely going to be the most popular....
haha sorry I didn't mean to say they wouldn't be fast or popular sadly. Id never want one. Also ive never said my car is fast because I know it is FAR from.

v8 is great v6 is ok inline 4 I just don't know I don't like the sound of it but most people tend to disagree with me. haha guess there is one in every crowd

I may not like it but ill respect it just like any ride someone puts hard work into!
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:24 AM   #53
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haha sorry I didn't mean to say they wouldn't be fast or popular sadly. Id never want one. Also ive never said my car is fast because I know it is FAR from.

v8 is great v6 is ok inline 4 I just don't know I don't like the sound of it but most people tend to disagree with me. haha guess there is one in every crowd

I may not like it but ill respect it just like any ride someone puts hard work into!
I guess you've never seen any of the crazy 2.3L builds out there. Its a way better platform that most ppl realize.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:08 AM   #54
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Stop the bickering

GM is doing all they can to solve their problems. The new boss fired 15 old a**HOLES that tried sweeping things under the table. There actually was nothing inferior about the switches but the placement of them that was the problem.
Toyota had a real problem with the floor mats as well as every old car that was ever made had. (((THEY MOVED))) and you had to reach down and pull them away from your control pedals. Even the one's you buy from Pep Boys or any other place can have that problem. I don't think a car made anyplace by any company has not had a problem or two or three but it is how they handle the problems is what matters.
Firestone and Ford had a problem with the tires """YES""" Covered up """NO""" Ford as well as Firestone sent out letters to increase the tire pressure and to go to your Ford or Firestone store for replacement tires. Neither company tried to cover up the problem. They handled it as soon as reports started coming in. I remember that 7 of the 13 deaths happened after the recall was sent out. DUH!! The problem ended up being the combination of tires, pressure and high center of the Cars involved as well as HEAT.
As with anything in life, You sometimes don't know there is a problem until you have one. Then if your smart you will fix it, If you are stupid you try to cover it up.
We are all on this Forum because almost all of us have and love our Mustangs. That does not mean we can't like other cars too.
I belong to a strictly Mustang club that a few members will dish other cars. I consider them the token idiots like the one's that were in my Corvette club. "JERKS"
I also joined a true Muscle car club and it seems there are real car guys that just love Muscle cars no matter the brand. I like this Forum because I have learned a lot and 99% of the forum members are just great people.
I would hate to see that change with a lot of name calling and hate. A good discussion don't really need that. A good argument also don't need that.
I like my V6 MCA 3.7 Cyclone Mustang a whole lot. It is really my forth Mustang. I also have had Corvettes, as well as about 100 or more others cars over my short 71 year lifetime. ((( WIMMIN- DOG's - CAR'S - Racing - Harley Davidsons - Photography - Traveling are just a few of the things I loved.
I have no room left for the just plain nasty people that don't seem to like anything at all.
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PS::: I also like a good discussion / argument once in a while. That is how we learn from each other. Agree to dis-agree is the good old American way.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:11 AM   #55
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I guess you've never seen any of the crazy 2.3L builds out there. Its a way better platform that most ppl realize.
I mean ive seen them but I guess I never got into them I just don't like the concept of a 4 banger not saying they aren't fast af just like how some people don't like v6 mustangs or any other car for one reason or anther think there is more to a mustang than how fast it is. I guess this is hard to take seriously coming from a guy with a 3.8l. sorry we disagree but I guess I disagree with most people
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:29 PM   #56
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:29 AM   #57
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I thought this was the general mustang chat room.

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Old 07-03-2014, 04:50 AM   #58
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Watching that video made me go out and look at the angle of the ignition key when it's inserted and in the "run" position in my 2011 Mustang. In no way is it in the same position of the one shown in the video (Camaro; I assume the other GM cars on recall for the same problem have this issue). As Ronnie pointed out, most folks have a ton of keys on their automotive key ring. My niece is like this. When she was staying with us during her college years, I picked up her keys, and counted over 25 keys. I asked her why so many (why would a 20 year old need 25 keys???). I then weighed it, it was almost 5 pounds of weight.

My wives BMW does not require a key in any ignition at all; she simply keeps it in her purse, and presses the start button. This is fool proof, other then if she were to leave the engine running and leave the area of the car, the information center goes nuts!
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:14 AM   #59
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Latest on the GM recall...


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