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Old 08-04-2014, 08:29 PM   #1
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Lets talk performance tunes for 3.7 engines

Okay my fellow stang bangers. Lets talk performance tunes. Lets air it out and people need to start putting factual quantitative numbers on performance tunes. There has been a fair amount of bama bashing on these sites and some claim bama has very conservative tunes.

I say, show us, show me. Let's have some quantitative numbers showing same car, same track, same track day, same octane, same octane tune and run three to four tunes against each other. Not four different ponies with four different tunes.

I'm talking the same car, load three or four different tunes and see which tune runs the fastest time and by how much. I already did the dyno test with my three tunes and proved that Bama holds its own and is not conservative. I have the dyno sheet to prove that and wrote a huge write up on this forum about the results.

I gave people on here quantitative numbers to show which tune netted the highest rwhp, torque and by how. Now please keep in mind these three dyno runs were performed back to back to back, same day, same weather condition, same dyno operator. It was MPT vs Steeda Vs Bama.

I purchased all three because my curiosity got to me of the true power numbers of comparing tunes. I got tired of hearing smack talk about how Bama was crap, Bama is the best, Steeda is the best, MPT is the best, etc but no numbers showing why something is better and by how much.

Based on my 2011 3.7 with my mods my dyno numbers were the following:

91 Octane Steeda tune: 289 rwhp @ 276 rwtq.

91 Octane BAMA hybrid tune: 294 rwhp @ 268 rwtq.

91 Octane MPT tune: 297 rwhp @ 276 rwtq.

So in the end the MPT netted 3 rwhp more and 8 rwtq more than the Bama hybrid tune. I certainly wouldn't call that a killing and Bama makes conservative tunes. Steeda finished last but only by 8 rwhp. Certainly not a killing by my standards.

MPT came out on top as far as dyno numbers but certainly not by much. At least I have quantitative numbers to support saying MPT netted the most rwhp; however bama came in close behind them. That's far from saying Bama is conservative considering MPT has a reputation for making quality, highly aggressive tunes for our 3.7 but my hybrid fell just 3 rwhp short. To me that shows bama doesn't make really conservative tunes.

So here is my question. If I purchase a Lund tune, how much more power am I going to get. Is Lund going to get me 350 rwhp from his tune? How much more HP and torque is VMP going to get for me over my other three tunes? How much more power is AED going to get for me on their tune?

Lets even forget dyno numbers. How much faster is a Lund tune going to make my pony run over my MPT, Hybrid, or Steeda tunes. Is Lund going to help me run 1 second faster? How about 2 seconds faster? 2 tenths faster over my MPT tune? How much faster.

How much faster is a AED tune going to make my pony run based on my mods over my MPT, Bama or Steeda tunes?

How about VMP tune? How much faster will it make my pony run in the 1/4 mile over my MPT tunes.

My point is. Lets see people on here start putting up real nunbers to compare their car using several different tunes to compare which tune nets the fastest times. One car, numerous different tunes dyno or track nunbers. Lets have sone quantitative evidence other than Lund is the best because it is or Bama is the best because it is.

Show us why tune A is so superior over all the other tuning companies.

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Old 08-04-2014, 09:21 PM   #2
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Using a Diablosport 87 tune I've run 14.04 @ 101. I have no use for dyno numbers so I don't have any. My engine is stock, no mods and I run 3.55 gears with factory tires and an aluminum driveshaft. I may install the 93 race tune at some point but I probably won't get to the track until the fall. Good post. I don't think this group is into racing/dyno tuning that much though. Costs
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:51 PM   #3
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THANK YOU THANK YOU for making this thread! I have been wanting to see comparisons like this for as long as I've been researching tunes. Couldn't have come at a better time, as my warranty just expired!

Regarding how close those numbers are, yes you are right single digit differences in hp and torque don't amount to much. On top of that, I want to add that ANY experiment has a margin of error. In scientific/technical papers you will never see data reported just as a number. It's going to have a "+/-" something after the number. No measurement is a "true" measurement. My point is, the single-digit differences that you are reporting are in all likelihood NOT statistically significant. In other words, you do the same experiment on a different day, and BAMA or even Steeda might come up on top.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Okay my fellow stang bangers. Lets talk performance tunes. Lets air it out and people need to start putting factual quantitative numbers on performance tunes. There has been a fair amount of bama bashing on these sites and some claim bama has very conservative tunes.

I say, show us, show me. Let's have some quantitative numbers showing same car, same track, same track day, same octane, same octane tune and run three to four tunes against each other. Not four different ponies with four different tunes.

I'm talking the same car, load three or four different tunes and see which tune runs the fastest time and by how much. I already did the dyno test with my three tunes and proved that Bama holds its own and is not conservative. I have the dyno sheet to prove that and wrote a huge write up on this forum about the results.

I gave people on here quantitative numbers to show which tune netted the highest rwhp, torque and by how. Now please keep in mind these three dyno runs were performed back to back to back, same day, same weather condition, same dyno operator. It was MPT vs Steeda Vs Bama.

I purchased all three because my curiosity got to me of the true power numbers of comparing tunes. I got tired of hearing smack talk about how Bama was crap, Bama is the best, Steeda is the best, MPT is the best, etc but no numbers showing why something is better and by how much.

Based on my 2011 3.7 with my mods my dyno numbers were the following:

91 Octane Steeda tune: 289 rwhp @ 276 rwtq.

91 Octane BAMA hybrid tune: 294 rwhp @ 268 rwtq.

91 Octane MPT tune: 297 rwhp @ 276 rwtq.

So in the end the MPT netted 3 rwhp more and 8 rwtq more than the Bama hybrid tune. I certainly wouldn't call that a killing and Bama makes conservative tunes. Steeda finished last but only by 8 rwhp. Certainly not a killing by my standards.

MPT came out on top as far as dyno numbers but certainly not by much. At least I have quantitative numbers to support saying MPT netted the most rwhp; however bama came in close behind them. That's far from saying Bama is conservative considering MPT has a reputation for making quality, highly aggressive tunes for our 3.7 but my hybrid fell just 3 rwhp short. To me that shows bama doesn't make really conservative tunes.

So here is my question. If I purchase a Lund tune, how much more power am I going to get. Is Lund going to get me 350 rwhp from his tune? How much more HP and torque is VMP going to get for me over my other three tunes? How much more power is AED going to get for me on their tune?

Lets even forget dyno numbers. How much faster is a Lund tune going to make my pony run over my MPT, Hybrid, or Steeda tunes. Is Lund going to help me run 1 second faster? How about 2 seconds faster? 2 tenths faster over my MPT tune? How much faster.

How much faster is a AED tune going to make my pony run based on my mods over my MPT, Bama or Steeda tunes?

How about VMP tune? How much faster will it make my pony run in the 1/4 mile over my MPT tunes.

My point is. Lets see people on here start putting up real nunbers to compare their car using several different tunes to compare which tune nets the fastest times. One car, numerous different tunes dyno or track nunbers. Lets have sone quantitative evidence other than Lund is the best because it is or Bama is the best because it is.

Show us why tune A is so superior over all the other tuning companies.

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I don't even know if I would say Steeda came in last. When I looked at it I figured Steeda tied for first since torque is what you feel, not horsepower.


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Old 08-04-2014, 10:33 PM   #5
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With just a Steeda CAI and Steeda 93 tune, I ran a 13.6 @ 105.2, on factory tires and factory 2.73 gears. MT82. 1.96 60'.


Not a real dyno graph but supposedly within 3%...




Whenever I have time, which I don't think will be for some time, I will swap back to the factory intake and tune and try the test again.

I also would like to add, that I feel like with the factory intake and tune, on a similar pass, I could have managed a 13.9 @ 101 - 102.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:48 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sakib View Post
THANK YOU THANK YOU for making this thread! I have been wanting to see comparisons like this for as long as I've been researching tunes. Couldn't have come at a better time, as my warranty just expired!

Regarding how close those numbers are, yes you are right single digit differences in hp and torque don't amount to much. On top of that, I want to add that ANY experiment has a margin of error. In scientific/technical papers you will never see data reported just as a number. It's going to have a "+/-" something after the number. No measurement is a "true" measurement. My point is, the single-digit differences that you are reporting are in all likelihood NOT statistically significant. In other words, you do the same experiment on a different day, and BAMA or even Steeda might come up on top.
Your more than welcome and I'm glad were all having a good educational discussion. I totally agree that there is a margin for error. Totally agree that if the dyno test was done another day, Steeda may come out on top but my guess is regardless all three tunes would net very close power numbers to each other.

At least with my experiment on the dyno I had some quantitative number to show forum members that these various tunes are netting very similar power HP and torque numbers. Sure one tune will come out on top but not by much. For example, when people say bama tunes are very conservative and not aggressive, it would be nice to show why with some type of quantitative number being dyno or track times.

Lund and AED seem to be the two biggest players with the hardcore 5.0 enthusiasts but how much faster will a Lund tune make my 3.7 run over say my MPT tune? How much faster would a AED tune make my pony run over one of my other tunes?

These are questions that I don't think people have any clue other than they read on forums to buy X tune because its great but nothing to back up why its better than tune Y.

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Old 08-04-2014, 10:56 PM   #7
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I would expect that by now, Bama, MPT and Steeda have the 3.7 pretty dialed down and I would expect they are all within 5 rwhp/tq of each other. Which, Kona's dyno numbers prove.

I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed yet, is the transmission tuning. I believe this is what will generally make or break a tune for the automatics, which the majority of members seem to have.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:57 PM   #8
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With just a Steeda CAI and Steeda 93 tune, I ran a 13.6 @ 105.2, on factory tires and factory 2.73 gears. MT82. 1.96 60'.


Not a real dyno graph but supposedly within 3%...




Whenever I have time, which I don't think will be for some time, I will swap back to the factory intake and tune and try the test again.

I also would like to add, that I feel like with the factory intake and tune, on a similar pass, I could have managed a 13.9 @ 101 - 102.
So your 93 Steeda tune gave you a 13.6 run 1/4 mile. Thats a great run.

Now try loading up a 93 race tune from Bama on your car, same mods and how fast did you run it.

Now load in your 93 MPT tune and see how fast you run the 1/4 mile in.

Now load up your 93 Lund tune and see what your 1/4 mile time is.

Now load up your 93 AED tune and see what your 1/4 mile time is.

Now load up your 93 VMP tune and see what your 1/4 mile time is.

Now take all your times with the different tunes and see which tune netted you the fastest 1/4 mile time. Now you can say based upon your experiment and the raw data Tune X is the best.

Problem is, people don't do that and we don't ever get quantitative numbers to show why a particular tune is better than others tunes. I want too see results and some type of quantitative number even knowing there is a margin of error.

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Old 08-04-2014, 11:17 PM   #9
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I would expect that by now, Bama, MPT and Steeda have the 3.7 pretty dialed down and I would expect they are all within 5 rwhp/tq of each other. Which, Kona's dyno numbers prove.

I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed yet, is the transmission tuning. I believe this is what will generally make or break a tune for the automatics, which the majority of members seem to have.
You my friend hit the nail on the head and excellent point. Transmission tuning and its shifts points. Dyno test ain't gonna show that. You need track numbers. I have already showed dyno results and how close the power numbers produce but how about the transmission tuning and shift point's.
1/4 mile track times will show that. Which tune makes the car run the fastest time and by how much. My educated guess would be my 91 MPT tune would net me the fastest 1/4 mile time but not by much. Being that I have an automatic I'm guessing the time difference between my MPT, Steeda and Hybrid tune would be 1 tenth second difference and not sure that much.

Thats just my guess but MPT would take the win for the fastest time but not by much. I will say that MPT has the transmission tuning down perfect and unbelievable. People on here who have MPT tune know what I'm talking about. The transmission shifts are absolutely amazing and perfect. The downshifting and engine braking when the car is slowing down is absolutely unbelievable.

The only way I can describe it is my automatic sounds like and acts like a manual only a perfect no error manual. I think very few humans could work a manual what MPT has done with its automatic 3.7 tune.

I say this with no disrespect to bama or other tuning vendors because my hybrid tune shifts excellent and i am very happy with Steeda and Bama.

Since you mentioned a excellent point about the tuning of the transmission and its shifts points that's where I believe MPT will come out a little ahead of its competition.



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Old 08-04-2014, 11:19 PM   #10
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The other thing I'd love to see compared like that is CAI vs. stock. Every other factor held constant. Settle that debate about whether they make a difference or not.

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Old 08-04-2014, 11:22 PM   #11
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I would have, if I had more than 2 passes and more than 1 tune on the car.

I have seriously considered an MPT tune, if I do, I will certainly provide my feedback on it.

The problem with running at the strip is that it will never be consistent (at least in a manual car, like mine). There are simply too many variables involved.

Here is what I did and I feel it shows the difference in each tune. I just put the car in 3rd gear (remember it's a manual) and stood on it. Then counted off the time from a certain MPH to another MPH. It clearly shows the difference the tune makes. With no driver or track variables.




Doing the same in an auto would be much easier and show the difference in shifting between the various tunes.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:23 PM   #12
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The other thing I'd love to see compared like that is CAI vs. stock. Every other factor held constant. Settle that debate about whether they make a difference or not.

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Amen brother. I totally agree. I would like to see someone run a 1/4 mile with just a tune and no CAI. Then install a CAI same day, load the new tune in for the CAI and see yiur your 1/4 mile time.

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See just an example bro but me runing a bama tune against your say Lund tune doesn't show which tune nets a faster time becauee my car may be modded different, have different suspension setup and a weight difference. So racing against each other doesnt give the answers we need.

We need, same car, same driver, same weight, same weather conditions with loaded various tunes. Now we have quantitative numbers showing realistic data which tune nets the fastest time and is number 1.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:28 PM   #13
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The other thing I'd love to see compared like that is CAI vs. stock. Every other factor held constant. Settle that debate about whether they make a difference or not.

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I can vouch for the Steeda CAI. You have to run a tune. My car ran like complete crap and my AFR was extremely lean, like 15.5+ in just normal driving (stoich is 14.7). So I know that it makes a difference, assuming the tune provides the added fuel.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:33 PM   #14
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I would have, if I had more than 2 passes and more than 1 tune on the car.

I have seriously considered an MPT tune, if I do, I will certainly provide my feedback on it.

The problem with running at the strip is that it will never be consistent (at least in a manual car, like mine). There are simply too many variables involved.

Here is what I did and I feel it shows the difference in each tune. I just put the car in 3rd gear (remember it's a manual) and stood on it. Then counted off the time from a certain MPH to another MPH. It clearly shows the difference the tune makes. With no driver or track variables.




Doing the same in an auto would be much easier and show the difference in shifting between the various tunes.
Bro, your so right it hurts. Manual is no good and not accurate enough for a test like this. This test needs the car to be automatic. I thought the very same thing as you about manual. To many variables with a manual and its not consistent.
My automatic is perfect every time. I just slam my right foot down on the gas pedal till it hits the floor. At the same time I lift up off the brake. Away we go, bro. The tunes do the rest. You can't mess up. Its consistent and only way to do it.

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Old 08-05-2014, 12:00 AM   #15
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I can vouch for the Steeda CAI. You have to run a tune. My car ran like complete crap and my AFR was extremely lean, like 15.5+ in just normal driving (stoich is 14.7). So I know that it makes a difference, assuming the tune provides the added fuel.
Makes sense, I understand and agree. A CAI should require a tune because the stock tune doesn't know what to do with the increased air flow, even with the MAF. I guess the test would have to be as Kona described: first stock intake WITH a tune, then CAI with a tune for the CAI. Cannot compare stock without a tune to CAI with a tune, that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Your video is great, thanks for that. Steeda doesn't seem to get as much attention on this forum as BAMA and MPT do, though they are for sure just as serious contenders. I like how Steeda has a relationship with Ford, it gives me more confidence for safety.

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Old 08-05-2014, 08:10 AM   #16
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Makes sense, I understand and agree. A CAI should require a tune because the stock tune doesn't know what to do with the increased air flow, even with the MAF. I guess the test would have to be as Kona described: first stock intake WITH a tune, then CAI with a tune for the CAI. Cannot compare stock without a tune to CAI with a tune, that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Your video is great, thanks for that. Steeda doesn't seem to get as much attention on this forum as BAMA and MPT do, though they are for sure just as serious contenders. I like how Steeda has a relationship with Ford, it gives me more confidence for safety.
The relationship between Steeda and Ford is one of the main reasons why I went with them. Anything happens to my car, I still sort of have a warranty.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:41 AM   #17
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Great write up, Kona Blue - as always!

Thanks for putting real life information out there and comparing (3) of the best tuning companies out there! Glad to see all of the V6 tunes are so close to each other. I think if you add any other tuning companies to this you're going to see the same results. I'm confident our tune will be on par with just about every tuning company out there!

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Old 08-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #18
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Great write up, Kona Blue - as always!

Thanks for putting real life information out there and comparing (3) of the best tuning companies out there! Glad to see all of the V6 tunes are so close to each other. I think if you add any other tuning companies to this you're going to see the same results. I'm confident our tune will be on par with just about every tuning company out there!

-Dan
Dan, I couldn't agree more with you. I suspect one could compare Lund, AED, VMP, Brenspeed to Bama or MPT and the nunbers would all be very close to each other. I had spoken to a highly reputable local dyno tuner in my area and he told me not to waste my money on a dyno tune from him.

There is only so much safe power a tuner can acheive on a particular engine regardless of who the tuner is. No way a Lund tune is gonna give my 3.7 engine 330 rwhp and 300 plus rwtq when my hybrid tune is 294 rwhp and MPT is 297 rwhp.

Now, will a Lund tune give me 301 rwhp over my 297 rwhp and do safely? Maybe! Maybe not however not worth it to me to spend another 200 dollars on a maybe or to squeeze a few extra rwhp

Will Lund tune make my pony 2 tenths faster in the 1/4 mile over my Bama hybrid tune? Maybe! Maybe only 1 tenth faster it will be. Its certainly not worth it to me too spend 200 more dollars for a Maybe. Remember, I don't track race or drag race my pony. I drive to and from Wally World and some doctor appointments. In my daily world and universe 2 tenths faster to the next traffic light doesn't mean anything. 1 to 2 tenths faster to park in Wally Worlds parking space doesn't mean anything.

Now if Lund can make my car run 1 to 2 seconds faster in a 1/4 mile over my MPT, Steeda or Hybrid tune then sign me up Lund. Ill pay $200 dollars for that. Now my butt can feel 2 seconds of difference when going to Wally World. Ba ha ha ha



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Old 05-06-2015, 07:10 PM   #19
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Thought it might be worth mentioning that Lund is not very good at tuning the 3.7.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:59 PM   #20
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I am on the fence with switching. I have a Bama 93Race tune. I was thinking $70 to gain 1-3 hp and 3-7 torque is not too bad of an investment when considering other options. Wasn't sure if Bama's V2 tune would be competitive enough to just stay with them or switch.

It is June now with still no ETA on when the V2 tune will be out for the V6. So I don't want to hold my breath for this.
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