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Old 10-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #1
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Thumbs up Can i beat an 04 V8?

Guess ill be honest when first got my mustang i raced my friends 8v 2004 mustang. We were the same for about 20-30Mph then he passed me. Took a video of it too. Lol but he's broke. His cars all stocked. And all I've been doing up grading. I dont think i can beat him just yet. But i am not sure. So what i have so far are, new performance tires, Accel coil pack, NGK G-Power Platinum Spark Plugs, Taylor Street Thunder 8mm Spark Plug Wires , Cool air intake, changed oil, And to tie it all together i have a SCT x3 tuner with bama's three custom tunes. I plan to get shorty headers, new exhuast system and maybe a more performance made throttle body. Do you guys personally think i'll be able to out run him?
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:02 AM   #2
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Gearssss. You'll need gears. He's got torque on you. Get 4.10's


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Old 10-04-2014, 01:14 AM   #3
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I doubt it. Stock he has 260 HP and you have 210 HP plus I believe the 2004 models are lighter then the S197s. As far as your mods go to go through what you listed:

new performance tires - Tires only help if you have traction issues, I don't have traction issues with my 14 V6 so I doubt there would be any with the same model with 100 less HP.
Accel coil pack - Dont add HP
NGK G-Power Platinum Spark Plugs - Dont add HP
Taylor Street Thunder 8mm Spark Plug Wires - Dont add HP
Cool air intake - With the tune your probable adding 10-15 HP

Even with full exhaust and a TB I doubt that will put you anywhere near 260 and even if you got close to his HP, he is lighter and has more torque.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:31 AM   #4
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Alright gears. Got it. And star I've read that spark plugs add hp and I never said that any of them gave me hp. I was saying how my performance changed and would any of it help me. And his car isn't lighter. Our race proves it for me to be able to keep up with him for a bit. You forget his cars a v8. His engine is heavyer then mine. Their for he's not light. His cars old also. He doesn't take car of it he mostly lost hp over time I'm almost certain he doesn't have 260 hp anymore. He's for sure lost hp. Not enough for me to win against him but I'm just pointing out how we size up against each other
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:53 AM   #5
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I doubt it. Stock he has 260 HP and you have 210 HP plus I believe the 2004 models are lighter then the S197s. As far as your mods go to go through what you listed:

new performance tires - Tires only help if you have traction issues, I don't have traction issues with my 14 V6 so I doubt there would be any with the same model with 100 less HP.
Accel coil pack - Dont add HP
NGK G-Power Platinum Spark Plugs - Dont add HP
Taylor Street Thunder 8mm Spark Plug Wires - Dont add HP
Cool air intake - With the tune your probable adding 10-15 HP

Even with full exhaust and a TB I doubt that will put you anywhere near 260 and even if you got close to his HP, he is lighter and has more torque.

Not at all....every one of those mods adds power to the 4.0 and you can easily have more than 260hp with full bolt ons. I dynoed at 210rwhp with a cai, 90 octane ethanol free race tune, tb spacer, Pypes mid muffler catback, accel coil pack, Taylor 8mm wires and platinum plugs


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Old 10-06-2014, 09:53 AM   #6
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Not at all....every one of those mods adds power to the 4.0 and you can easily have more than 260hp with full bolt ons. I dynoed at 210rwhp with a cai, 90 octane ethanol free race tune, tb spacer, Pypes mid muffler catback, accel coil pack, Taylor 8mm wires and platinum plugs


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I'm sorry but the 4.0 is just another engine and unless the factory coils, plugs, and wires are bad they are not going to add horsepower unless your making unusual high HP compared to stock.

And with your mods your making 210. Assuming a 10-15 % drivetrain loss that still only puts you at 235-240 hp which is still short of the 260. Plus he has the advantage with torque.


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Old 10-06-2014, 09:59 AM   #7
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10%??? No drivetrain is 15-20% and I'm an auto so more like 20% bud....


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Old 10-06-2014, 10:08 AM   #8
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Alright gears. Got it. And star I've read that spark plugs add hp and I never said that any of them gave me hp. I was saying how my performance changed and would any of it help me. And his car isn't lighter. Our race proves it for me to be able to keep up with him for a bit. You forget his cars a v8. His engine is heavyer then mine. Their for he's not light. His cars old also. He doesn't take car of it he mostly lost hp over time I'm almost certain he doesn't have 260 hp anymore. He's for sure lost hp. Not enough for me to win against him but I'm just pointing out how we size up against each other

I realize his car is a V8 but it's also a different body style. A 2004 mustang GT (with a v8) had a curb weight in the 3200s depending on options. While your 2005 is a s197 which were heavier then the previous generation. Your car with a v6 is minimum of 3350 although most are in the 34-3500 lbs range. Even though it's not much it's still heavier, plus he has the advantage in torque.

And just because you kept up with your friends GT doesn't mean your car is as fast as a GT. If he doesn't take care of his car maybe he can't drive well? I drive and love my V6 but I'm realistic and don't expect to be killing GTs either.


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Old 10-06-2014, 10:29 AM   #9
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10%??? No drivetrain is 15-20% and I'm an auto so more like 20% bud....


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20% is max loss, most modern autos don't hit 20. But even using that number your at 250 hp and if my math is correct that is still less then 260. Like I said I love my v6 but when people start posting about smoking GTs and talking about how spark plugs add hp it makes the GT guys laugh at us.

And like I said even if you get to 260 hp a 04 GT has a better power curve more torque and a lighter body style. 260 Hp vs 260 hp that GT will win.


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Old 10-06-2014, 10:35 AM   #10
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:27 PM   #11
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Hmm it's possible I've seen it done but you're going to need some more mods and drop a little a weight on the car. Have you taken out the spare?
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:41 PM   #12
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I didn't say i am as fast. A v8 is cleanly a better engine. but i raced him when i first got the car. I've made a lot of mods since then. And everyone i've spoken to about this has said if i add a little more horse power id be able to out run his car. His car only has a 50 hp over me. That not a lot and is alot at the same time. But as i said he doesn't take care of his car. His oil is old which lowers hp and his spark plugs are worn which slows response. I'm saying his car most likely doesn't have 260 as it might have had in the beginning. And if i was able to keep up with him in low rpm's i should at the very least be able to keep up with his mid rpm now. You over estimate his 04 v8. If these were the new 2011 then theirs no way in hell i could keep up even with a v6.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:43 PM   #13
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No, I didnt take it out the first time i raced him. I plan to race him again soon with premium gas and put my race tune on and then take out the tire.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:53 AM   #14
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I didn't say i am as fast. A v8 is cleanly a better engine. but i raced him when i first got the car. I've made a lot of mods since then. And everyone i've spoken to about this has said if i add a little more horse power id be able to out run his car. His car only has a 50 hp over me. That not a lot and is alot at the same time. But as i said he doesn't take care of his car. His oil is old which lowers hp and his spark plugs are worn which slows response. I'm saying his car most likely doesn't have 260 as it might have had in the beginning. And if i was able to keep up with him in low rpm's i should at the very least be able to keep up with his mid rpm now. You over estimate his 04 v8. If these were the new 2011 then theirs no way in hell i could keep up even with a v6.
The best way to find out is just to run him. But just a few general thoughts based on your above post.

1. Spark plugs, wires, coils, oil, tires (unless you have traction issues which you probable dont with 200-220ish HP) are not mods their general maintenance that need to be done with cars. Although some companies claim for these to have gains on generally stock cars its snake oil. your just not going to see any difference in the real world. For spark plugs or oil to have any affect on HP you will need significant amount of miles 20,000 + without an oil change for it to possible have any impact. Same goes with plugs, unless whats in their is about to go out replacing them wont have any impact. Platinum plugs don't affect HP the only real benefit is longer change intervals.

2. You asked the question and now it seems like you don't like the answer so now are taking the approach that your car isn't that great but that his car is just that much of a POS that isn't maintained. If thats the case without time slips or a video its impossible to really give an accurate opinion.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:57 AM   #15
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Can i bet an 04 V8?

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Guess ill be honest when first got my mustang i raced my friends 8v 2004 mustang. We were the same for about 20-30Mph then he passed me. Took a video of it too. Lol but he's broke. His cars all stocked. And all I've been doing up grading. I dont think i can beat him just yet. But i am not sure. So what i have so far are, new performance tires, Accel coil pack, NGK G-Power Platinum Spark Plugs, Taylor Street Thunder 8mm Spark Plug Wires , Cool air intake, changed oil, And to tie it all together i have a SCT x3 tuner with bama's three custom tunes. I plan to get shorty headers, new exhuast system and maybe a more performance made throttle body. Do you guys personally think i'll be able to out run him?
Spark plugs don't add power
Spark plug wires don't add power
Cold Air intake doesn't really do much
Oil changed? Come on.....

None of that is going to really make any difference unless something is physically broke, like the car is misfiring or such.

Out of everything you listed the only things that will help are the tuner and the exhaust a little bit (if going true dual exhaust).

He makes more power than you, and a hell of a lot more torque. Also is much lighter. Don't look at peak numbers also, the car will make better power through the curve. Also Modular motors aren't prone to losing power over age like the old pushrod motors are, only unless something is actually broken. Keep up on general maintenance and they keep their power.

My 4.6 2v with a "heavy V8" weighed 3335 on a scale, so that includes gas and all other fluids (which curb weight does not include). That is with a heavier intake manifold than a GT as well as 60-70 pounds of added suspension.

Yes i'm a little biased since i have a 4.6 2v like him, but there unless he is a horrible driver he will still win.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:04 AM   #16
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Not at all....every one of those mods adds power to the 4.0 and you can easily have more than 260hp with full bolt ons. I dynoed at 210rwhp with a cai, 90 octane ethanol free race tune, tb spacer, Pypes mid muffler catback, accel coil pack, Taylor 8mm wires and platinum plugs


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100% bone stock a 4.6 2v will dyno at around 230-235rwhp/250-260rwtq.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:56 AM   #17
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My 03 gt vert with a tune, 3.73 gears, and an exhaust, would destroy a v6 with same mods, and stock for stock, it's the same thing, v6 will never keep up. It's like comparing a pedal bike to a crotch rocket. With enough money, you could make the bike win, with a jet engine and pop the crotch rockets tires. You ask who will win, then when your told that you won't, you make up more excuses. You had to expect this answer.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:50 PM   #18
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I didn't say i am as fast. A v8 is cleanly a better engine. but i raced him when i first got the car. I've made a lot of mods since then. And everyone i've spoken to about this has said if i add a little more horse power id be able to out run his car. His car only has a 50 hp over me. That not a lot and is alot at the same time. But as i said he doesn't take care of his car. His oil is old which lowers hp and his spark plugs are worn which slows response. I'm saying his car most likely doesn't have 260 as it might have had in the beginning. And if i was able to keep up with him in low rpm's i should at the very least be able to keep up with his mid rpm now. You over estimate his 04 v8. If these were the new 2011 then theirs no way in hell i could keep up even with a v6.

Try to find an intake manifold it will give you around 15hp and it will make ur car look better under the hood. Longtube headers are also the best for your car and trust me you wont regret it after you hear the new tone it gives your car
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:08 PM   #19
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My excuses were my honest thoughts and i still stand by them. I am saying what i've read and heard. The reason why i am fighting you guys on this isn't because you are saying i am going to lose but because you are saying their is no chance. I still believe i can beat if not keep up with him on low rpm's and mid rpm's. I was thinking i was over estimating him because i was told at at car shows and a few friends that my car would out run my friends with my current mods.
And to comment on star. My car was rather old when i first got it. It had 85,000 miles on it. The guy couldn't remember the last time he had change the oil. Like you said it wouldn't be a big difference in hp but still every bit counts, does it not? Like i said i still dont think i could win in the long run but still i am sure i can hold in the low to mid rpm's.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:12 PM   #20
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Can i bet an 04 V8?

The oil won't affect horsepower, but when no changed for a while it can sludge up the engine. And I'm talking like 80k miles with only 2 oil changes. But modern engines with modern synthetics can go a very long time without oil changes.

And yea every little bit does count. But you aren't looking at any noticeable horsepower gain from spark plugs and wires and a cold air intake.


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Old 10-07-2014, 11:19 PM   #21
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The spark plug i knew didn't give hp. But i read it gave better peddle response so i thought i should put it up when i made this thread, As for the other i can honestly say i didn't feel must difference performance wise when i added them. The spark plug wires i knew i wouldn't because i had read it would only give me very little hp gains. The cool air intake i was told i'd only really feel a difference when i added a tune for it.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:48 AM   #22
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I've heard the changing the coil pack, wires and plugs DOES add hp (manufactures claim this on most of the product descriptions), however it's my understanding that it does not add hp just changed the drivability of the car. I'm sure they do make the car run a little bit better And work with the bolt ons it already has
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:30 AM   #23
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I've heard the changing the coil pack, wires and plugs DOES add hp (manufactures claim this on most of the product descriptions), however it's my understanding that it does not add hp just changed the drivability of the car. I'm sure they do make the car run a little bit better And work with the bolt ons it already has
They claim up to, so you can gain absolutely nothing in most environments and can't do anything to the manufacturer of the product.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:41 PM   #24
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I've heard the changing the coil pack, wires and plugs DOES add hp (manufactures claim this on most of the product descriptions), however it's my understanding that it does not add hp just changed the drivability of the car. I'm sure they do make the car run a little bit better And work with the bolt ons it already has
It all depends on the application. If you have a old fox body with stock components that were designed for an engine making 200 HP and you build the engine and add forced induction and are making 5-6 hundred HP. Then yeah, replacing with higher quality parts may add HP by better supporting the setup. But on a lightly modded car that is still at stock power levels your not going to see any gains as the OEM equipment was designed to support that power. Especially on newer cars with how good technology has gotten.

I can take my stock 14 V6 and add a fuel system that can support 1000 HP and performance wires and coils but it will have zero impact on HP or performance.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:33 PM   #25
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Can i beat an 04 V8?

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No, I didnt take it out the first time i raced him. I plan to race him again soon with premium gas and put my race tune on and then take out the tire.

That's a solid 15 pounds with the Jack and all you're looking at probably 20-25 pound reduction. It doesn't seem like a lot but it'll help. You'll be fine I've seen it play out a million times.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:37 PM   #26
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Spark plugs and wires don't add power, don't get tricked by what the manufacturers say.

They are general maintainence and parts that needed to be upgraded in order to make that higher power.

That's like seeing all the gains manufactures claim on bolt ons and adding them all up, when in reality you get nowhere near it.


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Old 10-09-2014, 05:01 PM   #27
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Yeah when i first raced it didn't really hit me to take out the spare XD.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:17 PM   #28
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OP you're an idiot. You're not getting it.

Had to get your attention somehow. Listen to Soccerluvr. Take general maintenance completely out of the question. That's just an excuse. The New Edge is also most definitely a lighter platform (notice I didn't say motor) and is a big advantage.

Secondly, all I'm going to say is horsepower doesn't mean sh*t. A motor makes torque - that is all it makes in reality. Focus your attention on torque, not horsepower.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:44 PM   #29
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Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.


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Old 10-09-2014, 07:05 PM   #30
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Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.


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Amen!
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:25 PM   #31
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True that is why when Bschmidty said he had torque over me i quickly agreed that i needed that.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:17 PM   #32
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If you want more torque you are going to want to stroke the motor. I'd recommend just boosting it, or give it some spray.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:37 PM   #33
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Yeah spray is your best bet. Run a 75 shot with an 8.8" rear end and you're golden


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Old 10-09-2014, 11:48 PM   #34
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I recommend getting a new car.
or pumping thousands of dollars into FI.
Or just using that money to get a new car.
Besides that you're not going to win.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:30 AM   #35
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Yeah spray is your best bet. Run a 75 shot with an 8.8" rear end and you're golden


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4.0s already have some forged internal parts. Can easily do a 125-150


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