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Old 06-10-2012, 06:34 PM   #1
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This is why you wax your car...

Love it.





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Old 06-10-2012, 06:37 PM   #2
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

yes...too true
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:58 PM   #3
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

Although you cannot equate a products beading ability to protection and durability, if an applied product continues to `bead' water, one wash after another, then that would prove that whatever it is that is causing high surface tension is not washing off.

How can you tell when a paint surface protection has diminished to a point that it is no longer being protected?

Scientific explanation

? Water (H2O) is a polar molecule, composed of two hydrogen (H2) atoms bonded to a single oxygen (O2) atom. Water molecules adhere to each other, this is called cohesion.
? Water molecules also can be attracted to other substances, such as metal or dirt, especially if they have some static charge on them, this is called adhesion.
? Some substances are not attracted to water, and even repel it. These include oils, fats and waxes; these are called non-polar substances.
? When water falls on an un-waxed paint surface, the forces of adhesion and cohesion are almost in equilibrium, and the water spreads out

A wax or sealant, when applied properly to a clean paint surface, fills in the larger surface fissures and layers the whole surface. The chemical structure of the wax prevents water from penetrating to the surface of the car. Because the wax itself is hydrophobic (literally repels water), the forces of adhesion are much less than the forces of cohesion. So, water is more likely to bead higher and rounder than on a surface without wax / sealant

Non-scientific explanation
a) If the paint surface feels dry (your hand or a cloth drags), it?s an indication that there?s nothing left between you and the paint finish. Glazes, waxes and polymer?s create a finish with less friction (surface tension) than the paint itself.
b) A suggestion from a polymer product manufacturer [To test your wax / sealant you must measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) without any polish/wax applied Next, measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) within 24 hours after initially applying your polish/wax. This is your starting point. This will also be the gauge for determining the water beading (longevity, duration and changes) for that specific product. As the water beads start to diminish (get wider and shallower and loses contact angle), the polish/wax and its film protection factor is going away, Once the water beading is the same as before you apply your product, the polish/wax and its protection are gone] [Sal Zaino]

Conclusion- water beading is indicative but not conclusive proof of protection

Note - durability can fluctuate dependent upon environmental conditions and the products used between waxing/sealing (quick detailer (QD) car wash concentrate that contains a wax, spray wax, etc)

c) Indications that the products durability may be diminishing- (contact angle varies) when the water beads become noticeably larger in diameter with a flat, concave or an irregular shape usually indicate that the surface tension of the wax or sealant is diminishing. Or when dust, dirt or bug residue becomes more difficult to wipe off with a quick detailing spray are indications that it may be time to renew the protection

d) Slickness- slide a micro fibre towel across a horizontal surface to see how much resistance there is, if there has been a significant reduction from what you experienced previously the durability is probably diminishing

e) Sheeting or water beading- the self cleaning (sheeting) ability of the hydrophilic polymer seems to be much better than the hydrophobic organic wax (beading) effect, as it may accelerate the oxidation when drying after rain.

There are some disadvantages to water beading (hydrophobic) as opposed to the sheeting effect (hydrophilic) of a polymer, when they are dried by ambient temperature they cause ?spotting? (if the rain contains calcium it will leave a white residue) The other is there could be over a pint of liquid trapped within the beads over the paint film surface area, if they contain acid from industrial fall out (IFO) this could increase the time the acidic solution remains on the paint surface compared to ?water sheeting?.

The beads have a very small surface area, so the sun will increase the surface temperature very rapidly; many chemical compounds react to slight heating and an oxidizing process. Now you have acid + water + oxygen + ozone + heat; all of which equates to a highly concentrated acidic solution, which causes a concave indentation (acid etching) to the paint surface

Any product can be reformulated by a Chemist or product formulator with active surface agents (surfactants) either ionic (?sheeting?) or non-ionic (?beading?) that alters the surface tension and causes water to ?sheet? or ?bead? to satisfy consumer demand. But if a product beads on initial application and after a period of time starts to sheet water (or vice-versa) it is normally indicative that the wax/sealant protection has diminished.

Note- Dust and road soil will also have a negative impact on ?water beading?. This is often mistaken as ?wax / sealant failure

Contact Angle

[: the angle at which a liquid/vapour interface meets the solid surface].

[The contact angle is specific for any given system and is determined by the interactions across the three interfaces. Consider a liquid drop on a solid surface. If the liquid is very strongly attracted to the solid surface (for example water on a strongly hydrophilic solid) the droplet will completely spread out on the solid surface and the contact angle will be close to 0?.

Less strongly hydrophilic solids will have a contact angle up to 90?. On many highly hydrophilic surfaces, water droplets will exhibit contact angles of 0? to 30?. If the solid surface is hydrophobic, the contact angle will be larger than 90?. On highly hydrophobic surfaces the surfaces have water contact angles as high as 150? or even nearly 180?. On these surfaces, water droplets simply rest on the surface, without actually wetting to any significant extent.] [1]


An extract from one of a series of unbiased Detailing Technical Papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet

Chances are you'll learn something about detailing if you read any of these; although these articles will not improve your detailing skills, lead to a successful business or change your life. Applying what you learn from it, however, will. That's where your commitment comes in - you need to make a commitment to yourself right now that you will take action on what you learn.
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDTCM
Although you cannot equate a products beading ability to protection and durability, if an applied product continues to `bead' water, one wash after another, then that would prove that whatever it is that is causing high surface tension is not washing off.

How can you tell when a paint surface protection has diminished to a point that it is no longer being protected?

Scientific explanation

? Water (H2O) is a polar molecule, composed of two hydrogen (H2) atoms bonded to a single oxygen (O2) atom. Water molecules adhere to each other, this is called cohesion.
? Water molecules also can be attracted to other substances, such as metal or dirt, especially if they have some static charge on them, this is called adhesion.
? Some substances are not attracted to water, and even repel it. These include oils, fats and waxes; these are called non-polar substances.
? When water falls on an un-waxed paint surface, the forces of adhesion and cohesion are almost in equilibrium, and the water spreads out

A wax or sealant, when applied properly to a clean paint surface, fills in the larger surface fissures and layers the whole surface. The chemical structure of the wax prevents water from penetrating to the surface of the car. Because the wax itself is hydrophobic (literally repels water), the forces of adhesion are much less than the forces of cohesion. So, water is more likely to bead higher and rounder than on a surface without wax / sealant

Non-scientific explanation
a) If the paint surface feels dry (your hand or a cloth drags), it?s an indication that there?s nothing left between you and the paint finish. Glazes, waxes and polymer?s create a finish with less friction (surface tension) than the paint itself.
b) A suggestion from a polymer product manufacturer [To test your wax / sealant you must measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) without any polish/wax applied Next, measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) within 24 hours after initially applying your polish/wax. This is your starting point. This will also be the gauge for determining the water beading (longevity, duration and changes) for that specific product. As the water beads start to diminish (get wider and shallower and loses contact angle), the polish/wax and its film protection factor is going away, Once the water beading is the same as before you apply your product, the polish/wax and its protection are gone] [Sal Zaino]

Conclusion- water beading is indicative but not conclusive proof of protection

Note - durability can fluctuate dependent upon environmental conditions and the products used between waxing/sealing (quick detailer (QD) car wash concentrate that contains a wax, spray wax, etc)

c) Indications that the products durability may be diminishing- (contact angle varies) when the water beads become noticeably larger in diameter with a flat, concave or an irregular shape usually indicate that the surface tension of the wax or sealant is diminishing. Or when dust, dirt or bug residue becomes more difficult to wipe off with a quick detailing spray are indications that it may be time to renew the protection

d) Slickness- slide a micro fibre towel across a horizontal surface to see how much resistance there is, if there has been a significant reduction from what you experienced previously the durability is probably diminishing

e) Sheeting or water beading- the self cleaning (sheeting) ability of the hydrophilic polymer seems to be much better than the hydrophobic organic wax (beading) effect, as it may accelerate the oxidation when drying after rain.

There are some disadvantages to water beading (hydrophobic) as opposed to the sheeting effect (hydrophilic) of a polymer, when they are dried by ambient temperature they cause ?spotting? (if the rain contains calcium it will leave a white residue) The other is there could be over a pint of liquid trapped within the beads over the paint film surface area, if they contain acid from industrial fall out (IFO) this could increase the time the acidic solution remains on the paint surface compared to ?water sheeting?.

The beads have a very small surface area, so the sun will increase the surface temperature very rapidly; many chemical compounds react to slight heating and an oxidizing process. Now you have acid + water + oxygen + ozone + heat; all of which equates to a highly concentrated acidic solution, which causes a concave indentation (acid etching) to the paint surface

Any product can be reformulated by a Chemist or product formulator with active surface agents (surfactants) either ionic (?sheeting?) or non-ionic (?beading?) that alters the surface tension and causes water to ?sheet? or ?bead? to satisfy consumer demand. But if a product beads on initial application and after a period of time starts to sheet water (or vice-versa) it is normally indicative that the wax/sealant protection has diminished.

Note- Dust and road soil will also have a negative impact on ?water beading?. This is often mistaken as ?wax / sealant failure

Contact Angle

[: the angle at which a liquid/vapour interface meets the solid surface].

[The contact angle is specific for any given system and is determined by the interactions across the three interfaces. Consider a liquid drop on a solid surface. If the liquid is very strongly attracted to the solid surface (for example water on a strongly hydrophilic solid) the droplet will completely spread out on the solid surface and the contact angle will be close to 0?.

Less strongly hydrophilic solids will have a contact angle up to 90?. On many highly hydrophilic surfaces, water droplets will exhibit contact angles of 0? to 30?. If the solid surface is hydrophobic, the contact angle will be larger than 90?. On highly hydrophobic surfaces the surfaces have water contact angles as high as 150? or even nearly 180?. On these surfaces, water droplets simply rest on the surface, without actually wetting to any significant extent.] [1]

An extract from one of a series of unbiased Detailing Technical Papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet

Chances are you'll learn something about detailing if you read any of these; although these articles will not improve your detailing skills, lead to a successful business or change your life. Applying what you learn from it, however, will. That's where your commitment comes in - you need to make a commitment to yourself right now that you will take action on what you learn.
Haha read first paragraph then scrolled down and down and down and...
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:17 PM   #5
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

LOL....yeah.
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:54 PM   #6
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDTCM View Post
Although you cannot equate a products beading ability to protection and durability, if an applied product continues to `bead' water, one wash after another, then that would prove that whatever it is that is causing high surface tension is not washing off.

How can you tell when a paint surface protection has diminished to a point that it is no longer being protected?

Scientific explanation

? Water (H2O) is a polar molecule, composed of two hydrogen (H2) atoms bonded to a single oxygen (O2) atom. Water molecules adhere to each other, this is called cohesion.
? Water molecules also can be attracted to other substances, such as metal or dirt, especially if they have some static charge on them, this is called adhesion.
? Some substances are not attracted to water, and even repel it. These include oils, fats and waxes; these are called non-polar substances.
? When water falls on an un-waxed paint surface, the forces of adhesion and cohesion are almost in equilibrium, and the water spreads out

A wax or sealant, when applied properly to a clean paint surface, fills in the larger surface fissures and layers the whole surface. The chemical structure of the wax prevents water from penetrating to the surface of the car. Because the wax itself is hydrophobic (literally repels water), the forces of adhesion are much less than the forces of cohesion. So, water is more likely to bead higher and rounder than on a surface without wax / sealant

Non-scientific explanation
a) If the paint surface feels dry (your hand or a cloth drags), it?s an indication that there?s nothing left between you and the paint finish. Glazes, waxes and polymer?s create a finish with less friction (surface tension) than the paint itself.
b) A suggestion from a polymer product manufacturer [To test your wax / sealant you must measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) without any polish/wax applied Next, measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) within 24 hours after initially applying your polish/wax. This is your starting point. This will also be the gauge for determining the water beading (longevity, duration and changes) for that specific product. As the water beads start to diminish (get wider and shallower and loses contact angle), the polish/wax and its film protection factor is going away, Once the water beading is the same as before you apply your product, the polish/wax and its protection are gone] [Sal Zaino]

Conclusion- water beading is indicative but not conclusive proof of protection

Note - durability can fluctuate dependent upon environmental conditions and the products used between waxing/sealing (quick detailer (QD) car wash concentrate that contains a wax, spray wax, etc)

c) Indications that the products durability may be diminishing- (contact angle varies) when the water beads become noticeably larger in diameter with a flat, concave or an irregular shape usually indicate that the surface tension of the wax or sealant is diminishing. Or when dust, dirt or bug residue becomes more difficult to wipe off with a quick detailing spray are indications that it may be time to renew the protection

d) Slickness- slide a micro fibre towel across a horizontal surface to see how much resistance there is, if there has been a significant reduction from what you experienced previously the durability is probably diminishing

e) Sheeting or water beading- the self cleaning (sheeting) ability of the hydrophilic polymer seems to be much better than the hydrophobic organic wax (beading) effect, as it may accelerate the oxidation when drying after rain.

There are some disadvantages to water beading (hydrophobic) as opposed to the sheeting effect (hydrophilic) of a polymer, when they are dried by ambient temperature they cause ?spotting? (if the rain contains calcium it will leave a white residue) The other is there could be over a pint of liquid trapped within the beads over the paint film surface area, if they contain acid from industrial fall out (IFO) this could increase the time the acidic solution remains on the paint surface compared to ?water sheeting?.

The beads have a very small surface area, so the sun will increase the surface temperature very rapidly; many chemical compounds react to slight heating and an oxidizing process. Now you have acid + water + oxygen + ozone + heat; all of which equates to a highly concentrated acidic solution, which causes a concave indentation (acid etching) to the paint surface

Any product can be reformulated by a Chemist or product formulator with active surface agents (surfactants) either ionic (?sheeting?) or non-ionic (?beading?) that alters the surface tension and causes water to ?sheet? or ?bead? to satisfy consumer demand. But if a product beads on initial application and after a period of time starts to sheet water (or vice-versa) it is normally indicative that the wax/sealant protection has diminished.

Note- Dust and road soil will also have a negative impact on ?water beading?. This is often mistaken as ?wax / sealant failure

Contact Angle

[: the angle at which a liquid/vapour interface meets the solid surface].

[The contact angle is specific for any given system and is determined by the interactions across the three interfaces. Consider a liquid drop on a solid surface. If the liquid is very strongly attracted to the solid surface (for example water on a strongly hydrophilic solid) the droplet will completely spread out on the solid surface and the contact angle will be close to 0?.

Less strongly hydrophilic solids will have a contact angle up to 90?. On many highly hydrophilic surfaces, water droplets will exhibit contact angles of 0? to 30?. If the solid surface is hydrophobic, the contact angle will be larger than 90?. On highly hydrophobic surfaces the surfaces have water contact angles as high as 150? or even nearly 180?. On these surfaces, water droplets simply rest on the surface, without actually wetting to any significant extent.] [1]


An extract from one of a series of unbiased Detailing Technical Papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet

Chances are you'll learn something about detailing if you read any of these; although these articles will not improve your detailing skills, lead to a successful business or change your life. Applying what you learn from it, however, will. That's where your commitment comes in - you need to make a commitment to yourself right now that you will take action on what you learn.
Detailed image forum? That is interesting. I guess it's time to throw way my wax and polishes. I like the fact about the bugs.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #7
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

The fact of the matter is that time wins every time. All you can do is slow that process. A well waxed car is easier to clean and keep clean. You can either put in more time every now and again by waxing and protecting or wash more frequently, using as much time or more.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:41 PM   #8
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by illestdomer2005 View Post
The fact of the matter is that time wins every time. All you can do is slow that process. A well waxed car is easier to clean and keep clean. You can either put in more time every now and again by waxing and protecting or wash more frequently, using as much time or more.
It should only take about 25-30 minutes to wash the Mustang down. I agree waxing has many benefits though.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ford

It should only take about 25-30 minutes to wash the Mustang down. I agree waxing has many benefits though.
And dry it? Takes longer than that for me.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illestdomer2005

And dry it? Takes longer than that for me.
Not drying and windows. About an hour start to finish. I spend all day waxing and polishing though.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #11
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Towel dry it and use a squigy or however you spell it. And towel dry the glass to reduce water spots.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Whitelightning
Towel dry it and use a squigy or however you spell it. And towel dry the glass to reduce water spots.
Water blade lol. I actually have a water softener which helps. The absorber is the best.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 99ford

Not drying and windows. About an hour start to finish. I spend all day waxing and polishing though.
Yep, I spend about 2 hours polishing and waxing.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:10 PM   #14
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I wash project grab-her once every 2 weeks and wax every month
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:18 PM   #15
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Got a question about a spray on wax/detailer
I have turtle wax black car detailer/wax but I also have grabber blue stripes, the actual liquid sprayed is black, will this effect the color of the grabber? It also "claims" to fill in spider web scratches.
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:33 AM   #16
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

I'd watch that around the stripes....its kind of like the old 'color back' wax they had in the 90s...
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:23 PM   #17
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Agree
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #18
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

I like it so I cant even sit a towel on it without it sliding off
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDTCM
Although....
My brain hurts
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:05 PM   #20
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

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I like it so I cant even sit a towel on it without it sliding off
We have the same train of thought.....that's how I know she is good....the old slippery towel McGillicutty.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #21
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Since we are talking wax, and this sounds stupid of me to ask, but can you wax a gloss decal? And if your car is white can you use regular wax and for say my black painted parts can you use this black wax stuff meant for black cars on it? Or would it just be better to wax and polish with the same wax
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:27 PM   #22
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

I have used Meguiar's Tech wax and Mother's wax. They're all custard-colored goop. I haven't run across any black wax, but I don't know that I'd feel comfortable putting it on my silver car....let alone a white car.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:43 PM   #23
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I have used Meguiar's Tech wax and Mother's wax. They're all custard-colored goop. I haven't run across any black wax, but I don't know that I'd feel comfortable putting it on my silver car....let alone a white car.
Im talking the black on my car. (see album) it was brought down to metal then painted black. They sell some @ Walmart or any auto store and it's McGuires I believe.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:42 PM   #24
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

I'd use the same wax for everything...turtle wax ice for mine....less harsh for decals and the towel can slide from roof down windshield and across the hood (did I say I wax the glass too....?)
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:43 PM   #25
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What does everyone recommend?
I want something that can fix spider web scratches, and make a super shiny clean finish that like most say "can slide a towel down".
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:49 PM   #26
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Re: This is why you wax your car...

hmmmm....sounds like the mequiar's cleaner wax would be good for the black....but the quick detailer for your stripes. that cleaner wax is half wax/ half cleaner compound........too much on the stripes might start to discolor them.....
had to buff out a guys wide vinyl single rally stripe out on a camaro because he compounded it....bad idea...
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"What you have here sir, is a class 5 full roaming vapor, a real nasty fella!" Ray Stanz (Dan Akroyd) in Ghostbusters
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtzzoom
hmmmm....sounds like the mequiar's cleaner wax would be good for the black....but the quick detailer for your stripes. that cleaner wax is half wax/ half cleaner compound........too much on the stripes might start to discolor them.....
had to buff out a guys wide vinyl single rally stripe out on a camaro because he compounded it....bad idea...
+1 on pain in the butt camaro stripes. My dad ruined my mothers new camaro stripes and they are matte and swirled. I'll probably just wash the stripes on the side and just use the turtle wax ice like you said. I've become not so fond of the McGuires now. And I've seen your car and how it shines. I want to keep that black paint as scratch free as possible. But... It's already got scratches and it makes me sad:/
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