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Old 09-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #1
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Nightmare

Okay, so far, haven't had the best of luck modding this mustang. I have owned and modded many cars over the years. Always upgraded the wheels and never had any trouble. Until now.

Back in April, upgraded the wheels and tires and purchased black lug nuts to mach the charcoal wheels. The car was aligned and everything appeared to be in order for the back wheels, never had to remove them for any reason.

While driving down the road at 5mph i felt a slight wobble, next thing I new the driver's side back wheel came off the car. The car fell on the frame and slid about 100'. I saw the back wheel roll past me and down the road. Unbelievable. These things arent supposed to happen on a newer car.

So While waiting for the tow truck, I called my mechanic and asked what causes this, he said that overtightened lug nuts cause that. He said he never seen that happen on a rear wheel. Usually misalignment or hanging brakes cause the wheel no to roll straight and will make that kind of issue more apparent. So the truck driver showed up and we took two lug nuts off the other tires, which he was able to break loose with a tire iron with out a great amount of pressure. He said the lug nuts seemed to be tightened down about right. I looked around the road and found one of the lug nuts that fell off. Looking inside the nut, it appeared that the thread on the nut stripped on the inside. Could the aftermarket lug nuts be cheaply made and cause this problem? Has this happened to anyone here but me? Take a look at the pics, you can see 3 of the studs stripped and the rest that did not strip broke off
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:07 AM   #2
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Re: Nightmare

Two things can cause this. One: Over-tightend lug nuts to the point they stretch the stud and they eventually fail. Two: More light likely, they weren't tightened enough and slowly worked loose over time. When they made some gap between the wheel and the hub, you felt the vibration as it wobbled and ripped itself free from the car.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:33 AM   #3
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Re: Nightmare

Former Discount Tire guy here....
Sanguin has it right, both can cause it. More likely a lower than required torque of the wheels is the culprit.

ALSO!!!....After you put on aftermarket wheels for the 1st time, its imperative that you go back and re-torque the wheels after 50 or so miles.

Lower than ideal torque, NON-hubcentric wheels (common) and not checked after some street miles is likely the cause. I can tell you that if a "shop" put those wheels on for you, you do have some game for legal recourse. DT in its earlier years saw a lot of "wheel-offs" that would cost the stores a decent bit of $ if they couldnt provide documentation to the wheels being torqued, at what lb, and calibration certs on their torque wrenches. thats all covered now.


*edit: Couple more things...whats the white crap all over the hub? And factory hubs have these little annoying tabs on one or two of the studs. I can see one still attached on the stud at the 1oclock position. We were Always told to take this off on aftermarket wheels to ensure a perfectly snug fit against the hub. On older cars we also used a wire brush to get rid of any flaking or rust for that perfect fit. A gap as small as a business card between the wheel and the hub could cause enough vibration to do exactly what happened to you.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:53 AM   #4
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Wow, you are really not having any luck with this car. I feel like every time you come on here you have another bad story to tell. Sorry man!!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:57 AM   #5
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Re: Nightmare

Sorry to hear and see that
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:42 AM   #6
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They may not have been torqued to exact spec but they were on tight enough. I check lug nuts and tire pressure every time I change the oil. I last checked them a couple of months ago. The wheel rolled perfectly straight up until just before falling off. The tabs I'm not sure about. The white stuff is the primer off the wheel. They were not completely sprayed and the back side of the wheel is a primer off white/grey color. They came like that from AM, where I ordered everything from.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

I looked at the picture to see what tab you are talking about. That tab needs to be there, its the only thing holding the brake rotor completely flat againt's the hub. Without it, possible for the rotor to be slightly off.

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

Also, if they were undertightened the lugs would have spun off, not stripped off. That makes sense doesnt it?

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

Also the studs are stripped at the beginning where the wheel hubs is not at the ends. Any other thoughts on that?
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:40 AM   #7
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Re: Nightmare

epic fail man !
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:31 AM   #8
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Re: Nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Stallion 11 View Post
They may not have been torqued to exact spec but they were on tight enough. I check lug nuts and tire pressure every time I change the oil. I last checked them a couple of months ago. The wheel rolled perfectly straight up until just before falling off. The tabs I'm not sure about. The white stuff is the primer off the wheel. They were not completely sprayed and the back side of the wheel is a primer off white/grey color. They came like that from AM, where I ordered everything from.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

I looked at the picture to see what tab you are talking about. That tab needs to be there, its the only thing holding the brake rotor completely flat againt's the hub. Without it, possible for the rotor to be slightly off.

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

Also, if they were undertightened the lugs would have spun off, not stripped off. That makes sense doesnt it?

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

Also the studs are stripped at the beginning where the wheel hubs is not at the ends. Any other thoughts on that?
What I see in the pics tells me that the lug bolts snapped off.
There is no evidence on the hub that shows the nuts came loose and the wheel was wobbling before it fell off the car.
My guess is that you got the wrong lug nuts and they were over torqued.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:41 AM   #9
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Re: Nightmare

How the hell did you manage to keep it on the road! Verry sorry to see this happen to you. My suv had two lugs pop off before, after a slight wobble, they didnt pop the stud off they just flew off, i think they were undertightened. Completely stripping off seems like it might have been those lugs. It seems way too sudden, there shouldnt have been a quick wobble then bang these things usually give you plenty of time to react.

I painted my calipers a little over a month ago and set the torque to 80ft lbs, its been about 1k and i checked the torque just now and theyre good
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:25 AM   #10
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Re: Nightmare

the torque being "tight enough" vs the torque being correct is an important difference. If im not mistaken, this car is 100ftlbs.

Not saying this is the only possibility, but if they were under torqued plus another issue it could quickly multiple the failure rate. you prob had some wobble before you knew it (rear wheels youll feel in your butt not the steering wheel), and the lugnuts began to slowly spin loose, after some time they had come loose enough to cause enough free play and wobble that a couple of them slid all the way off and stripped the ends, and then finally what was left snapped off from the extreme wobble you felt right before failure.

anyway, all sorts of sucky man...I feel for ya. But, you and it are both still alive
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:28 AM   #11
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Oh man good to hear your ok
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:16 PM   #12
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If it got stripped it was either over torqued or bad lug nuts
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:38 PM   #13
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Re: Nightmare

Alludc is correct 100 ft.pounds torque



A big problem is that some of these guys use an air wrench that puts the wheels way to tite and stretch the hell out of the studs. They are to lazy to pull out their torque wrench.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:54 PM   #14
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Re: Nightmare

Did you recently break-up with your girlfriend or start dating a new girl? Looks like someone loosened three lugnuts and broke the other two.

Sure you weren't doing faster than 5 mph? 100 feet with the rear of the car dragging on the road, is a lot of distance?

Checked on the internet about defective lugnuts?
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:29 PM   #15
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I know 15 lbs of torque isn't much but I believe the manual states 85 ft lbs. I have had that toque spec for my 11 and 07.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:54 PM   #16
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Re: Nightmare

100 ft-lb, on pg 246 of the owner's manual for 2011, and pg 253 for the 2012, and pg 290 for the 13.

... and 15lbs makes a lotta diff.

youll see after your wife gets preg.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alludc
100 ft-lb, on pg 246 of the owner's manual for 2011, and pg 253 for the 2012... no reason to change for 13 fellas. and 15lbs makes a lotta diff.

youll see after your wife gets preg.
Lmfao
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alludc
100 ft-lb, on pg 246 of the owner's manual for 2011, and pg 253 for the 2012, and pg 290 for the 13.

... and 15lbs makes a lotta diff.

youll see after your wife gets preg.
Lmao, thanks for correcting me with class brother. I will make sure to torque mine down a little more tomorrow.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:16 PM   #19
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Re: Nightmare

I will too. I did a 300km trip today and they still are nice and snug at 80 ft lbs but i guess.i can torque a bit more
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:35 PM   #20
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Re: Nightmare

I would think maybe the lugnut bottom out before it was fully seated,,but your other rims are ok,,why only that side,,was any other ones loose??If it was a bad lugnut i would think you find something wrong with the other rims
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:07 AM   #21
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Re: Nightmare

I think "Mymustang is 100% correct:
[QUOTE][I would think maybe the lugnut bottom out before it was fully seated,,but your other rims are ok,,why only that side,,was any other ones loose??If it was a bad lugnut i would think you find something wrong with the other rims /QUOTE]

My personal opinion is that whoever installed your wheels did not fully tighten down that wheel. Something may have distracted them when they were finishing your car and they probably just plain forgot to tighten up that last wheel.

If it was bad lugnuts (or bottomed out) it would show on other wheels, Check all of the other wheels with your torque wrench and give us the results.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:12 PM   #22
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Update:

I count my blessings. The car dropped on the brake rotor and anti sway bar. I pulled the ebrake and was able to fight the steering and get the car off the road. It slid atleast 100 ft, comming to a stop maybe 10 ft from a light pole. By some miracle, and yes an actual miracle, no damage was done to the car. None.

I replaced the wheel studs and put my factory lugs back on. I noticed the lug nuts that were on the car were noticeably smaller than the factory lugs. They bottom out and just barely grab the face of the wheeI. Is it possible they shipped lug nuts for a different year mustang????

Anyways, I torqued them down to 90ft lbs. 100 seems to tight and 80 is too light. Anything more than 90 seems like it starts digging into the face of the wheel and you are pushing it way past the point where it's firmly tightened down. The torque in the manual is for the stock setup btw. I have driven about 100 miles and checked the torque on all the wheels, no probs so far.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #23
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Re: Nightmare

wheel torque is wheel torque. its to be 100ft lbs on your, regardless of the wheel being a stock wheel or aftermarket. if its digging in the face of the wheel, then either you again have teh wrong lugnuts (should be a tapered end), or you are just being paranoid. set em to 100, check em again in 25-50 miles, and love happily ever after.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:30 PM   #24
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Re: Nightmare

I drove about 1k torqued at 80 ft lbs after painting my calipers, after this post i rechecked them and they were still ok, but i torqued them to 100 for good measure and drove another 200 miles, all good still.

Unbelievable there was no damage....not even your rear bumper? You have to replace the rotor im guessing, it has to be warped!
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #25
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Re: Nightmare

I was just looking at the picture of your hub and was wondering if the two missing broken off studs were found at the scene. If they were not found I would think that they were twisted off when who ever put the wheels on had the air wrench at a power that was way to much for wheel nuts. They probably fell off and a couple of the other nuts were stripped out and only one nut was the only thing holding that wheel on.It may have been stripped a little too.

I can think of no other way this could have happened. Why would two studs be broken completely off and the other three remaining with the threads all stripped out? Only way over tightening could have caused this. There is no other explanation.

As probably every mechanic probably has seen before: When the lug nuts are only snuged up and not torqued enough and a wheel comes off the studs are usually still intact. The studs would be stripped at a point from the rim but usually never the actual nuts.

When doing Hot Laps at any speedway they always check wheel torque at inspection. They use the tech inspecters calabrated torque wrence.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #26
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Re: Nightmare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Stallion 11 View Post

[/COLOR]I looked at the picture to see what tab you are talking about. That tab needs to be there, its the only thing holding the brake rotor completely flat againt's the hub. Without it, possible for the rotor to be slightly off.[COLOR="Silver"]
That tab is only on there to hold the rotor during the assembly process. With a stock wheel it doesn't present a problem because the back of the stock wheel has a recess that clears that tab. The rotor will lay flat and not be off when you remove the tab (when you replace the rotors you don't put that tab on the replacements, they don't even ship with that little ring to put on the car). So it isn't needed. Remove it and when you tighten up the lug nuts the wheel and rotor will be flat against the hub.

But most aftermarket wheels are flat on the back and that tab presents an issue then. It causes the wheel to ........wobble
because it isn't lying flat on the rotor hat with that tab. So you may have had the torque correct but the wobble caused just by that tab and not getting the wheels down flat could have been enough to finally break off the two lugs as it shifted around while driving.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #27
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Re: Nightmare

Good point Jim but the wheel on the other side was fine. If it was caused by the Tab sticking out I would think the other wheel would also have the same problem. If the lug nuts were bottoming out all of the wheels would have the same problem.

I'm thinking either the person installing the wheels may have did something else with that air gun or maybe another person used it (while the installer was balancing that last tire) and did not turn down the power for that last wheel.

Way to many Mustang owners have put on aftermarket wheels to not have a problem showing up a long time ago. Also it is easy to spot if a wheel is not truly seated when installing it on any car.

I guess we will never really know exactly how this one wheel out of the four on the car did this. I'm just happy no one got hurt and the car was not damaged other then the hub and roter.

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Old 09-12-2012, 09:34 PM   #28
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Re: Nightmare

It may be that you only have one wheel affected .......................so far.

I would carefully inspect each of the lugs on the other three to see if there is any sign of wear from the wheel wobbling with that tab. And remove those tabs. All you need is a needle nose pliers to grab it and twist it off.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:55 AM   #29
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Re: Nightmare

How about it RED STALLION:

Did you remove the other Wheels and see if they were over tight or the Tab JimC is mentioning caused the problem?

You need to keep us informed on what the problem turned out to be. You may save someone from this happening to them in the future.

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Old 09-13-2012, 02:00 PM   #30
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I purchased these from AM mounted and balanced on the wheels. I had some work done with the front suspension and my mustang guy took the front wheels off only and put the back on using an air impact gun. I put the back tires on myself and if 100 ft lbs is what the stock setting is I would have to have gone past that to over tighten. I guarantee you they were not overtightened and all three of the other wheels seemed to be okay. I think the aftermarket lug nuts were for a different mustang and not the 10-12 models. I replaced all lug nuts on all tires with the stock lugs and they are not the same size/depth as the aftermarket lugs that failed. The aftermarket lugs were noticeably smaller, like 1/3 smaller. I found 1 lug that was stripped on the inside. So 3 stripped and slipped, the other 3 remaining snapped off with the wheel studs still attached.

The sway bar took on most of the beating and the rotor is fine. Only thing broken was the studs. Car drives fine now. As far as the tabs I will have to remove them. I have checked to torque 3 times and it seems to have stayed right on track for all 4 wheels. I will check with Ford and AM about the tourque specs before I change it. Aftermaket wheels may not necessarily have the same specs as

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

...... The stock setup
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #31
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Re: Nightmare

Thanks for the feedback on your nightmare. American Muscle should be able to tell you if a different torque spec is needed. I'm really happy that your car is up and running again.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:28 PM   #32
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I called AM just to check. I was advised to torque them down to 100 ft lbs. looks like it is the same as factory after all.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:51 PM   #33
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Re: Nightmare

kinda like the 8yr Discount Tire Corporate guy said in the 3rd post....
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:54 AM   #34
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Yes. Looks like you were right on the tourque.

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

Or whoever said 100ft lbs was, I cant read through this post again
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