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Old 08-18-2014, 08:51 PM   #106
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What filter is that?
The AME posted above
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:41 PM   #107
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Oh I don't know about top speed, but I believe down force improves acceleration by increasing traction, due to the increased normal force on the tires (fiction force = coefficient of friction x normal force). That's the point of spoilers. Anyone who knows for absolute certain, please chime in. I'm pretty confident but not 100% sure.

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Downforce only works at speed and it does sacrifice speed for stability.


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Old 08-18-2014, 09:52 PM   #108
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Downforce only works at speed and it does sacrifice speed for stability.


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Cool, thanks. That makes more sense because the spoiler couldn't be doing that much as you are building up from low speed.

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Old 08-18-2014, 11:17 PM   #109
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Sorry typos, changed my post above, it is Afe filter.

aFe 30-80179 Direct Fit Inverted Replacement Filter
Thx for the correction...will check that one out.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:39 AM   #110
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Great, lets plug up the vents Ford added due to engine heat issues, they are there for a reason. Then once your vents to release the heat are plugged up, lets feed the engine all that hot air ! [The CAIs do not really seal well to your hood and suck i the hot air. They are also known as Hot air intakes. I know I tried a CAI on my 2013 V6, increased air temps was a result. No open CAI is in my 2013 GT now, I use the aFe air filter for the stock box, has more area then the factory or K&N filters.
I really didn't think multiple people would make a big deal out of it, but to clarify the 'plug' doesn't plug the entire driver-side hood vent. Just enough to rechannel water away from the open element filter.

And c'mon here. 2011 and 2012 GT's don't have those vents and they're fine. How functional are those hood vents anyway, besides for looks?
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:34 AM   #111
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I really didn't think multiple people would make a big deal out of it, but to clarify the 'plug' doesn't plug the entire driver-side hood vent. Just enough to rechannel water away from the open element filter.

And c'mon here. 2011 and 2012 GT's don't have those vents and they're fine. How functional are those hood vents anyway, besides for looks?
Good point.

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Old 08-19-2014, 07:20 AM   #112
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Good point.
Here is the difference. 2011-2012 engines used oil squirters on the piston skirts. Ford found #8 cylinder had higher heating problems. Ford removed the oil squirters in the 2013+ engines and replaced the pistons with coated ones. Added the heat vents to reduce the heat problem, and got more HPR due to less oil windage.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:32 PM   #113
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Here is the difference. 2011-2012 engines used oil squirters on the piston skirts. Ford found #8 cylinder had higher heating problems. Ford removed the oil squirters in the 2013+ engines and replaced the pistons with coated ones. Added the heat vents to reduce the heat problem, and got more HPR due to less oil windage.
So do you suggest not going with an aftermarket hood unless it has heat extractors? I also thought ford corrected the problem with the #8? Good info, I was under the impression #8 failure was due to aftermarket tuning.

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Old 08-19-2014, 01:16 PM   #114
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Here is the difference. 2011-2012 engines used oil squirters on the piston skirts. Ford found #8 cylinder had higher heating problems. Ford removed the oil squirters in the 2013+ engines and replaced the pistons with coated ones. Added the heat vents to reduce the heat problem, and got more HPR due to less oil windage.
Wow, interesting.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:58 PM   #115
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So do you suggest not going with an aftermarket hood unless it has heat extractors? I also thought ford corrected the problem with the #8? Good info, I was under the impression #8 failure was due to aftermarket tuning.
I would suggest that you provide the same level of underhood cooling the stock hood provides.

There is plenty of true information and misinformation on the #8 issue available that I read though many times while trying to get to sleep
Facts are that cylinder does not get cooled as much as the others. Folks without tunes had #8 failures. Tunes removing knock sensors made the problem worse.
Ford changed serious ways things to the engine pistons in 2013, including removing the oil squirters to piston skirts, and putting in coated pistons; and by coincidence, working heat extractors in the hood. Idling in 95 degree weather the air over my hood has huge heat mirage coming out the vents and things really get better when moving forward. The vents work.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:13 AM   #116
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For this entire topic (I read it all in 3 mins). I have to say based on personal experience that the CAIs that are vastly available for the 3.7 all do about the same job, regardless of whether or not they have heat shield and rubber to inclose it to the hood. The gains are all give or take 5 hp (which is not noticable while just driving) and yes they provide more air and trq is increased a bit more, but all in all. I am much happier with the stock airbox and K&N filter. Way more responsive than just the factory paper filter and the car feels smoother than it ever did with the CAIs.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:46 PM   #117
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For this entire topic (I read it all in 3 mins). I have to say based on personal experience that the CAIs that are vastly available for the 3.7 all do about the same job, regardless of whether or not they have heat shield and rubber to inclose it to the hood. The gains are all give or take 5 hp (which is not noticable while just driving) and yes they provide more air and trq is increased a bit more, but all in all. I am much happier with the stock airbox and K&N filter. Way more responsive than just the factory paper filter and the car feels smoother than it ever did with the CAIs.
EXACTLY the same experience and setup I had with both my V6 and GT. With the GT at least, once the aftermarket CAI was removed, the car seemed less jerky at WOT and smoother overall. We'll see how the S/C runs with the stock airbox when I get it installed next week.

Nice to have a post from someone who -ACTUALLY- experienced the before and after of a part they are talking about...rather than talking out their ***.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:15 PM   #118
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EXACTLY the same experience and setup I had with both my V6 and GT. With the GT at least, once the aftermarket CAI was removed, the car seemed less jerky at WOT and smoother overall. We'll see how the S/C runs with the stock airbox when I get it installed next week.

Nice to have a post from someone who -ACTUALLY- experienced the before and after of a part they are talking about...rather than talking out their ***.
So I'm not the only crazy one who noticed this!! LOL, I will say with a S/C or turbo you WILL want a CAI. The amount of air pulled in by a turbo and how fast it spools relies heavily on velocity. Slightly more narrow from cone filter and matched pipe diameter to turbo/ supercharger intake bore. Really helped my custom turbo setup I had on my previous car.
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:04 AM   #119
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So I'm not the only crazy one who noticed this!! LOL, I will say with a S/C or turbo you WILL want a CAI. The amount of air pulled in by a turbo and how fast it spools relies heavily on velocity. Slightly more narrow from cone filter and matched pipe diameter to turbo/ supercharger intake bore. Really helped my custom turbo setup I had on my previous car.
Been on the fence with a S/C and CAI. The kit actually includes just the high flow K&N filter. My issue is the air vents on the GT leak directly onto the filter during a rain.

Independent testing was performed on the edelbrock kit and the gain was only 10HP. $350 for 10HP isnt worth it to me....especially when Im already getting near 600! If I was a hard core tracker, would probably think it was worth it. DD for me with an occasional track run.

Would love to hear a scientific opinion on open vs closed CAI. Seems to me that air rushing into a fixed area chamber would provide an overabundance of air.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:02 PM   #120
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Just out if curiosity I wanted to see what the stock airbox was pulling in temp wise. I can't imagine a cold air intake doing any better...

Note the ambient air temp vs intake air temp

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Old 08-25-2014, 10:09 PM   #121
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It's exactly the same...what app or program are you using for this?
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:14 PM   #122
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Exactly.

Unless they start making cold air intakes that can actually make the air colder than it is outside, it can't get any better than the stock one.

I use Dash Command on my iphone with a wifi dongle in the OBDII port. It's great. Measures more stuff than I could even list.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:15 PM   #123
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^ pointless is more ways then I even want to type.

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Old 08-25-2014, 10:21 PM   #124
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Just out if curiosity I wanted to see what the stock airbox was pulling in temp wise. I can't imagine a cold air intake doing any better...

Note the ambient air temp vs intake air temp

Attachment 164382Attachment 164383


lol.... thank you. The only other thing necessary to settle the debate is if someone could compare the MAF before and after putting a CAI in. You showed that the stock air box is pulling is as cold air as possible. Now we need to see if the flow is as good as can be. Would have to be done on the same car, same day (as soon as possible before the ambient air conditions change), and replicate the exact same driving conditions (same speed on the same section of road). Does anyone have the equipment to volunteer for this?
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:25 PM   #125
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CAI vs Standard Air box with K&N

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Originally Posted by Sakib View Post
lol.... thank you. The only other thing necessary to settle the debate is if someone could compare the MAF before and after putting a CAI in. You showed that the stock air box is pulling is as cold air as possible. Now we need to see if the flow is as good as can be. Would have to be done on the same car, same day (as soon as possible before the ambient air conditions change), and replicate the exact same driving conditions (same speed on the same section of road). Does anyone have the equipment to volunteer for this?

Good thinking. I was going to say that I'd do this tomorrow night but I forgot I don't have a CAI.

It's past my bedtime.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:27 PM   #126
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Exactly.

Unless they start making cold air intakes that can actually make the air colder than it is outside, it can't get any better than the stock one.

I use Dash Command on my iphone with a wifi dongle in the OBDII port. It's great. Measures more stuff than I could even list.
Interesting, wouldn't mind getting one.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:33 PM   #127
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Interesting, wouldn't mind getting one.

All in with the dongle from Amazon and the app from the App Store I spent about $30.

Not only does it measure an *** ton PIDs, check/clear CELs, but it also has 0-60 and 1/4 timers. Lots of fun.

I'd definitely recommend it.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:55 PM   #128
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All in with the dongle from Amazon and the app from the App Store I spent about $30.

Not only does it measure an *** ton PIDs, check/clear CELs, but it also has 0-60 and 1/4 timers. Lots of fun.

I'd definitely recommend it.
Does it only work for iPhone?
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:18 AM   #129
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Just out if curiosity I wanted to see what the stock airbox was pulling in temp wise. I can't imagine a cold air intake doing any better...

Note the ambient air temp vs intake air temp

Attachment 164382Attachment 164383
Hi I do the same, but you need to "Sit" for awhile in traffic not be moving. I had "less" increase in Intake temps on the stock airbox over outside temps, and had larger increases when using the CAI that was sealed to the hood. I put the stock box back on. (that was on my previous V6 3.7) My opinion is only for Naturally aspirated applications.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #130
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I'm going to try to rig my stock air box to fit cold air intake inside of it and ensure a proper seal. And see if it makes any difference.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:04 AM   #131
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The very slight difference does not mean a thing.

The engine will only use so much air at the RPM it is running. It will not use more then it needs. A few degrees in temperature will not affect performance at all in normal driving around town.
As long as you have a CAI that connects to the grill inlet the air coming in while the car is moving will be cooler then the under hood temperature. When you are stopped the only air coming in is from the inlet and of course it will not be as cool but not enough difference to count for anything.
The stock airbox that comes on these engines are really great and as good as your going to get. A CAI is "EYE CANDY" and works just as good but looks cool when you pop the hood.
ArtU is right when he says:
Quote:
you need to "Sit" for awhile in traffic not be moving. I had "less" increase in Intake temps on the stock airbox over outside temps, and had larger increases when using the CAI that was sealed to the hood.
The thing is that when you get moving they are both about the exact same. The CAI sealed against the hood will be hotter in the hot sun because the hood gets hot while sitting still. Not a huge increase but enough to make a difference.
Ronnie

PS:
Ask your self if you need a CAI Or do you just plain want one because they look great when you pop the hood open. I decided I just plain wanted one.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:15 AM   #132
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There's definitely no denying which one looks better and sounds better, that's for sure.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:11 PM   #133
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I'm going to try to rig my stock air box to fit cold air intake inside of it and ensure a proper seal. And see if it makes any difference.
They already have this two ways

1) use a aFe huge filter element (better than K&N) I posted before
2) see the air box I posted about before that is sealed.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:15 PM   #134
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They already have this two ways

1) use a aFe huge filter element (better than K&N) I posted before
2) see the air box I posted about before that is sealed.
Are you referring to the K&N cai That has the little box? AFE? I'll look them up might get one. I got the KN filter free. Just traded a guy my Airaid and 100 and he gave me the stock box and K&N.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:18 PM   #135
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Ask your self if you need a CAI Or do you just plain want one because they look great when you pop the hood open. I decided I just plain wanted one.
That folks is the truth
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:22 PM   #136
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Are you referring to the K&N cai That has the little box? AFE? I'll look them up might get one. I got the KN filter free. Just traded a guy my Airaid and 100 and he gave me the stock box and K&N.
Here is the closed box that opens for a car show posted
http://www.americanmuscle.com/aem-ca...12gt-NoFitment

Look this up on Amazon for the filter element I used on my V6 and now my GT in stock air box I posted
aFe 30-80179 Direct Fit Inverted Replacement Filter

http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...rtno=30-80179&
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:30 PM   #137
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The argument could be made that an open element filter has a larger surface area, and thus, a higher potential to pull in air. The stock airbox may flow enough for a fully bolted car with headers and everything, but thats not to say you wouldnt get more from having a proper sized CAI.

In a max effort Na setup, it would be best to go with a "tune required" intake, because that actually increases the size from stock and further increases the flow potential. On a basically stock car with an intake however, i doubt you would notice much (if any) difference from just a CAi, stock sized or not.

Granted it was around 50-60* out, when i got my GF her air raid for christmas, i could swear it made the car quicker, but have zero data to prove that. She liked it though so i guess thats whats important haha.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:35 PM   #138
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I can at least give you all hard facts on the before and after on a CAI vs stock air box on a 2013 GT - 7HP and that was with it tuned to use more air. Using a stock tune, there was no difference in performance. Only difference was the lack of a "sucking" sound without the CAI.

I could probably reapply that same custom CAI tune for the stock air box/high flow K&N filter and get the same HP gain.

So in conclusion.... plenty of air available to either setup so a tune that forces the engine to suck in more air through a higher flow filter is the real HP gain. Whether its an enclosed or open box IMO makes no difference.

Use that $350 for better upgrades....or instead make a generous donation to WileECoyoteGT
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:20 PM   #139
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The argument could be made that an open element filter has a larger surface area, and thus, a higher potential to pull in air. The stock airbox may flow enough for a fully bolted car with headers and everything, but thats not to say you wouldnt get more from having a proper sized CAI.

In a max effort Na setup, it would be best to go with a "tune required" intake, because that actually increases the size from stock and further increases the flow potential. On a basically stock car with an intake however, i doubt you would notice much (if any) difference from just a CAi, stock sized or not.

Granted it was around 50-60* out, when i got my GF her air raid for christmas, i could swear it made the car quicker, but have zero data to prove that. She liked it though so i guess thats whats important haha.

As of this weekend, I'll be making 592HP with 525lbs torque via a new S/C running off the factory air box.

OR

I can make 600HP and 530lbs torque and run the risk of pumping in moisture from the intake when water is pouring into my hood vents - with the addition of a $350 CAI. Off course you can put a plate over the CAI to protect from the rain thus restricting the airflow. Who else sees the stupidity in that?

There are smart upgrades and cant see past tomorrow upgrades.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:22 PM   #140
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As of this weekend, I'll be making 592HP with 525lbs torque via a new S/C running off the factory air box.

OR

I can make 600HP and 530lbs torque and run the risk of pumping in moisture from the intake when water is pouring into my hood vents - with the addition of a $350 CAI. Off course you can put a plate over the CAI to protect from the rain thus restricting the airflow. Who else sees the stupidity in that?

There are smart upgrades and cant see past tomorrow upgrades.
Get a 11-12 and no hood vents there. Problem solved. Lol

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