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Old 08-26-2014, 11:04 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by WileECoyoteGT View Post
I can at least give you all hard facts on the before and after on a CAI vs stock air box on a 2013 GT - 7HP and that was with it tuned to use more air. ......

I could probably reapply that same custom CAI tune for the stock air box/high flow K&N filter and get the same HP gain.

So in conclusion.... plenty of air available to either setup so a tune that forces the engine to suck in more air through a higher flow filter is the real HP gain. Whether its an enclosed or open box IMO makes no difference.

Use that $350 for better upgrades....or instead make a generous donation to WileECoyoteGT
I am doing so right now. I'm using the same tune I used for my airaid and it feels do much better with the box but I feel a higher flow filter will allow me to gain a bit more top end.
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:55 AM   #142
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As of this weekend, I'll be making 592HP with 525lbs torque via a new S/C running off the factory air box.

OR

I can make 600HP and 530lbs torque and run the risk of pumping in moisture from the intake when water is pouring into my hood vents - with the addition of a $350 CAI. Off course you can put a plate over the CAI to protect from the rain thus restricting the airflow. Who else sees the stupidity in that?

There are smart upgrades and cant see past tomorrow upgrades.
1. I was making an example for the sake of the v6 guys.
2. You cant compare what that airbox will do boosted vs Na
3. How much power you make is not only based on your intake set up, but also your pulley size. You could go up to a 6" intake, but if you're not pullied to maximize that airflow, then of course it wont make a difference in power. That however, is not relevent to this conversation.

Also, i have a CJ set up on my car, with an 1100 cfm filter ... this thing is massive, and sits near the vents on my '13 GT, and so far i miraculously have avoided any moisture on it . The heat of the supercharger would evaporate any water long before it damaged anything on your car. Id just be worried about getting the MAF dirty at most.
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:09 AM   #143
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Get a 11-12 and no hood vents there. Problem solved. Lol

Sent from my naked Johnson. The third real non Boss 227
I will say it again, there is a motor change in 2013 that Ford felt the vents needed to be there. Unless you replace the hood with one that cools as well, its a bad idea, and also wont match the front nose right either.
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:09 PM   #144
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Get a 11-12 and no hood vents there. Problem solved. Lol

Sent from my naked Johnson. The third real non Boss 227
Ha! Alternate option - time to get a GT500! Need to fertilize the money tree...
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:59 AM   #145
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:14 AM   #146
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The Ford Engineer saying the piece Ford Engineering made is the best you can get who'd have thunk it.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:20 AM   #147
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The Ford Engineer saying the piece Ford Engineering made is the best you can get who'd have thunk it.

I haven't seen a better one yet.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:24 AM   #148
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Then you don't know what you're looking for. The stock intake is not bad, and I would imagine it flows quite well ... to an extent. There will come a point where a larger diameter pipe / MAF section + open element filter will have a higher flow potential. This is probably not on a stock car, or even a mild bolt on car though, this is probably the person with headers, TB, cat delete ... Everything works "fine" at stock power levels.

Obviously apples to oranges since we're comparing a Boss to a v6, but do you think that intake would suffice if the Boss were cammed with long tubes and full exhaust? You're trying to tell me the car would gain negligible horsepower from an after market intake? That's more or less my point, its just a sales pitch from the Ford Racing team. Dont get me wrong, Ford Racing makes some badass parts, but you have to take statements like that with a grain of salt.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:51 AM   #149
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Then you don't know what you're looking for. The stock intake is not bad, and I would imagine it flows quite well ... to an extent. There will come a point where a larger diameter pipe / MAF section + open element filter will have a higher flow potential. This is probably not on a stock car, or even a mild bolt on car though, this is probably the person with headers, TB, cat delete ... Everything works "fine" at stock power levels.

Obviously apples to oranges since we're comparing a Boss to a v6, but do you think that intake would suffice if the Boss were cammed with long tubes and full exhaust? You're trying to tell me the car would gain negligible horsepower from an after market intake? That's more or less my point, its just a sales pitch from the Ford Racing team. Dont get me wrong, Ford Racing makes some badass parts, but you have to take statements like that with a grain of salt.

I don't know what I'm looking for? Show me an intake that draws cooler air in a more efficient way.

Yeah, at a certain point you'll need an intake that's capable of drawing more air, but no one was talking about a cammed/super/turbo charged/sprayed car. Of course you'd need a different intake for that. Probably need different tires, different driveshaft, different exhaust, and a host of other different things.

For what it's supposed to do, it is the best there is.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:59 AM   #150
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Yeah, at a certain point you'll need an intake that's capable of drawing more air, but no one was talking about a cammed/super/turbo charged/sprayed car. Of course you'd need a different intake for that.

You say that now as if it is obvious. However, during many discussions, a cold air intake is looked down upon both modded and Unmodded. Anyone who dares says a cold air intake is good for anything besides bling is tossed to the wolves
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:16 AM   #151
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You say that now as if it is obvious. However, during many discussions, a cold air intake is looked down upon both modded and Unmodded. Anyone who dares says a cold air intake is good for anything besides bling is tossed to the wolves

If you throw in other variables then at a certain point the stock intake won't have the capacity to get the most out of other mods. This should be obvious, but I can't assume what most people should find to be obvious. But this is starting to turn into a straw man argument.

In an unmodded car (and even a car with a few bolt ons), the stock intake is the best intake.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:25 AM   #152
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CAI is still a good thing

The engine will only use the amount of air it needs at any RPM. The stock air box is OK and will feed as much air as the engine can use. Excellent at the lower RPM's.
Where the CAI (Any of them) is good, Not only for eye candy but is capable of flowing a lot more unrestricted air at the upper RPM's.
The thing is, How often do you run your engine wide open for any length of time?
Look back at some of Bucko's post where he modified his air tube to eliminate the silencer and use the covered stock air box. He eliminated the restrictions. And improved his top end air intake.
Airaid now sell a tube you can replace the stock air tube with that does just what Bucko did. It allows you to use your covered air box which takes in air from the grill area.
I know I sure don't need a CAI on my V6 3.7 Mustang but It sure looks great when I pop my hood open. Plus, it sounds really great when I floor it.
A wast of $$$$$-- Sure it was, but I like it and that's all that really counts to me. I do go out in my garage and pop the hood open every once in a while to just admire how nice my engine looks.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:39 AM   #153
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1. I don't know what I'm looking for? Show me an intake that draws cooler air in a more efficient way.

Yeah, at a certain point you'll need an intake that's capable of drawing more air, but no one was talking about a cammed/super/turbo charged/sprayed car. Of course you'd need a different intake for that. Probably need different tires, different driveshaft, different exhaust, and a host of other different things.

2. For what it's supposed to do, it is the best there is.
1. Do you have empirical data to support that, or is it simply word of mouth? Tell you what, we're taking my Gfs v6 to the track Friday (weather permitting) and i'll log every single run. We will do a few with her air raid, and a few with her stock airbox. I bought it for her because she wanted it, not because i expected gains, but this will be interesting to see if a difference is in fact made.

Things i will be looking for:
A. IAT. The air raid is plastic, so the tube should not heat soak, similar the the OEM piece. The argument comes in that after market kits pull in "hot air," but the air raid utilizes the factory duct from the bumper and has a heat shield that "seals" against the hood. We will see what difference (if any) there is.

B. MAF G/s. Her car only has an intake / tune and 3.55 gears (irrelevant to power production) at this point, but it will at least be a starting point. I'll log the Measured G/s using the stock air box for a few pulls, and then log the Air raid. If the intake is making more power, it can only be because the car is bringing in more air, and you will see an increase in measure G/s. This may just need to be a baseline of sorts, because her car will be getting headers and cat deletes eventually ... the only thing that makes this tricky is as the weather gets colder, measured G/s will naturally go up as the air gets more dense any ways.

2. Was that not my point? That it was sufficient at stock and minor bolt on power levels, but eventually could be replaced for more power? Again, my main point was that you need to take blanket statements like that with a grain of salt. Hell, i have a header back exhaust on my 5.0 with stock air box / TB (for reasons other than power). If i had access to a no tune required CAI i would do the same test on my car, and i challenge other people to do this as well so we can get some sort of data bank going for this.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:47 AM   #154
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1. Do you have empirical data to support that, or is it simply word of mouth? Tell you what, we're taking my Gfs v6 to the track Friday (weather permitting) and i'll log every single run. We will do a few with her air raid, and a few with her stock airbox. I bought it for her because she wanted it, not because i expected gains, but this will be interesting to see if a difference is in fact made.

Things i will be looking for:
A. IAT. The air raid is plastic, so the tube should not heat soak, similar the the OEM piece. The argument comes in that after market kits pull in "hot air," but the air raid utilizes the factory duct from the bumper and has a heat shield that "seals" against the hood. We will see what difference (if any) there is.

B. MAF G/s. Her car only has an intake / tune and 3.55 gears (irrelevant to power production) at this point, but it will at least be a starting point. I'll log the Measured G/s using the stock air box for a few pulls, and then log the Air raid. If the intake is making more power, it can only be because the car is bringing in more air, and you will see an increase in measure G/s. This may just need to be a baseline of sorts, because her car will be getting headers and cat deletes eventually ... the only thing that makes this tricky is as the weather gets colder, measured G/s will naturally go up as the air gets more dense any ways.

2. Was that not my point? That it was sufficient at stock and minor bolt on power levels, but eventually could be replaced for more power? Again, my main point was that you need to take blanket statements like that with a grain of salt. Hell, i have a header back exhaust on my 5.0 with stock air box / TB (for reasons other than power). If i had access to a no tune required CAI i would do the same test on my car, and i challenge other people to do this as well so we can get some sort of data bank going for this.
This will be very interesting. Looking forward to the results. Regarding changes in ambient temperature affecting the G/s, please write down the ambient temp for each run and we can normalize for it.

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Old 09-10-2014, 10:50 AM   #155
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In the same night it should be ok, i meant in regards to what the ambient would be during her next round of mods, be it cat delete, headers... It would be hard to attribute what G/s gains are from the flow mods, and what are from the cooler, denser air. Unless that is something you believe can be accounted for?
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:03 AM   #156
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All you need to do is think about it

It is not so scientific that it really matters. In the good old days of drag racing we just stuck a larger air cleaner on the carburetor for more air. It was sucking all of the air from under the hood. Later when the factories started putting air intakes that drew air from outside the hood to what they called Cold Air Intakes. We tried scoops. It really seemed not to make a difference in the ET's.( Some actually hurt ET's)
The biggest improvement that actually lowered your time was an Ice Can that we ran a copper coil fuel line through to get the gas as cold as possible. It was proved to get at least two tenths better ET then without the ice.
I was friends with a Chevy engine builder named Bill Jenkins. (Grumpy Bill) He hated some scoops because he claimed they were in a vacuum and air flow suffered. He is the one that designed the backward scoop that was at the cowl area that seemed to work as a ram air better then the ram air scoops.
It would be nice if you do your test with changing out air cleaners. I'm pretty sure your gonna find there will not be any difference.
Unless you can blow more air into the engine ---The Engine will not suck more air then it can use.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:12 AM   #157
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The test here is showing whether or not it can use more air than the stock intake can provide. Like i said, at her power levels it may not make a lick of difference, but unless someone else who is fully bolted steps up, it is what it is at this point. Either way it will prove a point: The intake either will, or will not, bring in more air.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #158
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It is not so scientific that it really matters. In the good old days of drag racing we just stuck a larger air cleaner on the carburetor for more air. It was sucking all of the air from under the hood. Later when the factories started putting air intakes that drew air from outside the hood to what they called Cold Air Intakes. We tried scoops. It really seemed not to make a difference in the ET's.( Some actually hurt ET's)
The biggest improvement that actually lowered your time was an Ice Can that we ran a copper coil fuel line through to get the gas as cold as possible. It was proved to get at least two tenths better ET then without the ice.
I was friends with a Chevy engine builder named Bill Jenkins. (Grumpy Bill) He hated some scoops because he claimed they were in a vacuum and air flow suffered. He is the one that designed the backward scoop that was at the cowl area that seemed to work as a ram air better then the ram air scoops.
It would be nice if you do your test with changing out air cleaners. I'm pretty sure your gonna find there will not be any difference.
Unless you can blow more air into the engine ---The Engine will not suck more air then it can use.
Ronnie
Ronnie, you and I must have run into each other sometime ago in Daytona. My dad sold pneumatic air staplers and nailers a long time ago (company called Senco). I used to tag with him during the summer months in the late 60's. I got to meet Smokey Yunick a few times, as he had a shop next to one that my dad had to supply and service the staplers. I was so impressed with the cars and Smokeys garage, that my dad would tell me to "leave that man alone"! Smokey knew his stuff too. He always wanted to build a better "air pump" (what he called a gasoline engine).

While I'll agree that more air in and more air out is what can produce more power, 90% of us will never reach that point where the stock airbox we have needs to be changed out. If you want purty, then buy the CAI as Ronnie states. Just don't get caught up in the hype thats out there for CAI's. Some of the earlier engines do indeed benefit from them, but Ford did do a very good job in designing the 3.7 and 5.0's air intake.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:34 AM   #159
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He was a genuis

I used to take my rig there for service. THE BEST DAMN GARAGE IN TOWN) At least that's what the sign said. Ha! Ha! ---It was a Kensworth.

I used to hang around Jack Carson's garage on US 1 in South Daytona before it was Millers. Smoky used to come in for coffee as well as Sammy Packard and Big Bill France. That was the place of choice for all of the car people to hang out and shoot the bull. Jack sold used cars but I never seen him sell one. I met a lot of Nascar big shots there Sammy Fox, Marvin Paunch, and others I can't think of right now all hung out there.
That was back in the 70's when I moved here to Florida.

When Jack died is when George Miller moved into the building. Freddy Frushey owned it at that time. George bought it from Freddy about a year or two later.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:59 AM   #160
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In the same night it should be ok, i meant in regards to what the ambient would be during her next round of mods, be it cat delete, headers... It would be hard to attribute what G/s gains are from the flow mods, and what are from the cooler, denser air. Unless that is something you believe can be accounted for?
Oh ok, sorry I read too fast and missed the half sentence where you mentioned the future bolt on mods. It will be tough to account for the differences. One thing you could do is run YOUR car on both days that you run hers, except don't change anything in your car in between. We could see how much your G/s changed due to ambient conditions and normalize her change to that.

Which track are you going to on Friday? TWS or something closer to Houston? I will be arriving in College Station on Saturday afternoon, so I'll miss you. But if you guys go to TWS later on I'd love to meet you.

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Old 09-10-2014, 12:02 PM   #161
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We'll be heading to sealy, which is I-10 on the west side of town. We're actually looking to run again at TWS in December or January, and will be sure to give you plenty of heads up. Good thought about my car ... I guess just see what % mine change by and adjust hers accordingly ... Gonna have to be real diligent with the filing in my datalogs folder haha.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:13 PM   #162
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We'll be heading to sealy, which is I-10 on the west side of town. We're actually looking to run again at TWS in December or January, and will be sure to give you plenty of heads up. Good thought about my car ... I guess just see what % mine change by and adjust hers accordingly ... Gonna have to be real diligent with the filing in my datalogs folder haha.
Sounds good. Try to resist doing mods to your 5.0 while she's getting her bolt-ons! That'll be hard for you I'm sure...

Yes a good filing system is key to doing research! It's what pulls anal-retentive OCD types like me to science. You being an accountant I bet you are good with organization.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:56 PM   #163
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Hah, when we spend all the money on her car anyways its not that hard
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #164
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1. Do you have empirical data to support that, or is it simply word of mouth? Tell you what, we're taking my Gfs v6 to the track Friday (weather permitting) and i'll log every single run. We will do a few with her air raid, and a few with her stock airbox. I bought it for her because she wanted it, not because i expected gains, but this will be interesting to see if a difference is in fact made.

Things i will be looking for:
A. IAT. The air raid is plastic, so the tube should not heat soak, similar the the OEM piece. The argument comes in that after market kits pull in "hot air," but the air raid utilizes the factory duct from the bumper and has a heat shield that "seals" against the hood. We will see what difference (if any) there is.

B. MAF G/s. Her car only has an intake / tune and 3.55 gears (irrelevant to power production) at this point, but it will at least be a starting point. I'll log the Measured G/s using the stock air box for a few pulls, and then log the Air raid. If the intake is making more power, it can only be because the car is bringing in more air, and you will see an increase in measure G/s. This may just need to be a baseline of sorts, because her car will be getting headers and cat deletes eventually ... the only thing that makes this tricky is as the weather gets colder, measured G/s will naturally go up as the air gets more dense any ways.

2. Was that not my point? That it was sufficient at stock and minor bolt on power levels, but eventually could be replaced for more power? Again, my main point was that you need to take blanket statements like that with a grain of salt. Hell, i have a header back exhaust on my 5.0 with stock air box / TB (for reasons other than power). If i had access to a no tune required CAI i would do the same test on my car, and i challenge other people to do this as well so we can get some sort of data bank going for this.

This is what I wanna see.
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Old 09-10-2014, 02:00 PM   #165
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Definitely want to see the results with just the first run. Can't imagine much or a numerical improvement in power other than throttle response. Your going to be doing stock intake and tune with CAI and stock tune?
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Old 09-10-2014, 02:03 PM   #166
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No, both tests will be done with her MPT tune since the car has gears. Not worth the hassle of de-tuning. I do not expect much peak difference either, but i agree the throttle response was improved with the CAI. Will still be interesting to put it on paper.
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:10 PM   #167
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I agree it will be hassle for her to do it with a tuned CAI, especially since she has MPT which would charge another $75 of you want to switch the tunes for the test. I wish there was someone who had a tune with stock air box and the same company tune but tuned for a CAI. Most feasible would be Steeda, with their own intake. I think Ish416 is set up for this. So if you're listening, Ish...

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Old 09-10-2014, 03:33 PM   #168
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update: So I got the Edelbrock S/C installed and did a before and after with stock airbox vs a new competition CAI. 20 HP better with the CAI and slightly better acceleration. Be aware its tuned to suck in more air.

So in conclusion on a 13-14 stock GT, a CAI is a waste of money with little gain. With a S/C and proper tune, worth the extra gains. the stock airbox flows quite well on a stock setup..I have the dyno numbers to prove it on mine pre-S/C.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:30 AM   #169
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Track is closed until October 3rd. May not get those datalogs as soon as i had hoped.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:39 AM   #170
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Track is closed until October 3rd. May not get those datalogs as soon as i had hoped.
Bummer. October 3rd is really not as far away as it sounds though. They're selling pumpkin bagels at Einstein's already...

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Old 09-11-2014, 10:45 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by WileECoyoteGT View Post
update: So I got the Edelbrock S/C installed and did a before and after with stock airbox vs a new competition CAI. 20 HP better with the CAI and slightly better acceleration. Be aware its tuned to suck in more air.

So in conclusion on a 13-14 stock GT, a CAI is a waste of money with little gain. With a S/C and proper tune, worth the extra gains. the stock airbox flows quite well on a stock setup..I have the dyno numbers to prove it on mine pre-S/C.
Great information. Thanks for sharing it!
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by WileECoyoteGT View Post
update: So I got the Edelbrock S/C installed and did a before and after with stock airbox vs a new competition CAI. 20 HP better with the CAI and slightly better acceleration. Be aware its tuned to suck in more air.

So in conclusion on a 13-14 stock GT, a CAI is a waste of money with little gain. With a S/C and proper tune, worth the extra gains. the stock airbox flows quite well on a stock setup..I have the dyno numbers to prove it on mine pre-S/C.
This is cool, can you please post the graphs?

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Old 09-11-2014, 01:14 PM   #173
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This is cool, can you please post the graphs?

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Guess I spoke too soon as I cant find the graphs from the old runs before the S/C install...my bad!I have a buddy that co-owns the dyno shop here where it was tested, so I'll see if he still has the files and if so post them here. Since the S/C install I became less interested in my old results

However I can tell you that the difference was negligible - exactly 3-4 HP additional based on the 2 runs (enclosed shop, closed hood and simulated airflow via fan). To me open hood isnt a real world test, so did the fan simulation. Technically its a gain, but $325 for 3-4 HP is s steep price IMO!

The S/C comparison - same scenario: 2 runs, 1 with 18HP gain, the other with 20. I could really feel the difference after the CAI was installed. The updated tune took full advantage of it as well.

I hate to make blanket statements that all CAI setups are pointless on stock, my experience covers 13-14 GTs only. If you are looking for the biggest bang for the buck and could only choose 2 things go with:

1. Tune
2. Steeper gears (3.31 auto, 3.73 on manual)

The auto 3.15 number sounds low, but it actually pulls closer to 4.17 in 1st if I remember right..based on a gearing wizard in another post.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:24 PM   #174
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Guess I spoke too soon as I cant find the graphs from the old runs before the S/C install...my bad!I have a buddy that co-owns the dyno shop here where it was tested, so I'll see if he still has the files and if so post them here. Since the S/C install I became less interested in my old results

However I can tell you that the difference was negligible - exactly 3-4 HP additional based on the 2 runs (enclosed shop, closed hood and simulated airflow via fan). To me open hood isnt a real world test, so did the fan simulation. Technically its a gain, but $325 for 3-4 HP is s steep price IMO!

The S/C comparison - same scenario: 2 runs, 1 with 18HP gain, the other with 20. I could really feel the difference after the CAI was installed. The updated tune took full advantage of it as well.

I hate to make blanket statements that all CAI setups are pointless on stock, my experience covers 13-14 GTs only. If you are looking for the biggest bang for the buck and could only choose 2 things go with:

1. Tune
2. Steeper gears (3.31 auto, 3.73 on manual)

The auto 3.15 number sounds low, but it actually pulls closer to 4.17 in 1st if I remember right..based on a gearing wizard in another post.
Yes I'm on board with what you're saying. Right on. I'd just be curious to see the graphs because I'd like to see where in power band the differences are. No biggie if you can't get a hold of them. What you wrote is very helpful in itself.

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Old 09-12-2014, 10:24 AM   #175
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After seeing what is involved with removing the sound baffle the safest way, by buying another factory tube to cut and paste, the simple Airaid replacement tube looks more appealing. Spending $80+ in parts and materials plus labor on a homemade rigged job, or spend $105 shipped for Airaid 450-945 intake tube ready to bolt on? Both keeps factory tube safe and unmolested in case it needs to go back on.

Seeing no track ET gain with Airaid CAI and 4 different "87 street/performance" tunes (stock: 1/8 = 9.15 @ 78.39, 1/4 = 14.05 @ 100.51), plus the CAI rattled, tried some other things on my '14 PP manual. With no performance gains, then simply for looks and sound.


A different method, and only cost total of $95 including Airaid tube and sound tube. After two ebay sellers backordered Airaid tube on me, found same $105 price at Amazon, but they had a special offer to sign up for free card or something, and takes $40 off item. So $65 for Airaid tube shipped! Still did not give me the sound I wanted, and after debating going back to stock, tried modifying the Airaid tube with $30 sound tube. Success! Now it has the sound I was wanting, and it sounds GREAT both inside and out. Was in a hurry, and still need to remove to clean up elbow appearance a little.


None of the items others suggested using for sound tube installation in other threads were available at Ace, HD, or Lowes. Ended up getting an elbow with 3/4 female threads on one end, and OD of 1.60 on other end. This 1.60" OD fit snug inside sound tube hose. Added a 3/4 threaded male connector to elbow (connector cut in half to now be about .7" long), and also screwed this into 1" hole drilled into Airaird tube. Used permatex black plastic weld on threads, as well as smearing it outside and inside Airaid tube to smooth slight rise from threaded end barely protruding into tube. Sanded all smooth, inside and out, especially inside, to reduce obstruction to almost nothing, and what is there is very gradual rise and fall. Quick shot of black paint to blend sanded area. Probably only took 10 to 15 minutes of actual time modding the tube, including sanding.
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