CAI vs Standard Air box with K&N - Mustang Evolution

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #1
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CAI vs Standard Air box with K&N

Please don't shoot the messenger!

Why all the noise about CAI?

A Roush Ford dealer (and he was quite technically competent) has advised that a K&N high flow filter in the standard air box is more than adequate for the GT & the V6 (BTW it is the same filter and air box). It takes air from beside the rad in the grill area thereby getting cold air. He thinks it might even be colder than the CIA's that are inside the engine compartment. With the K&N filter no tune is required although he does recommend a tune if you want a more responsive drive. He stated that most want the CIA for the noise factor, in fact the GT has a noise tube to induct the sound into the cabin.

I Know AM monitor this site and would really appreciate their input on this issue.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Impact View Post
Please don't shoot the messenger!

Why all the noise about CAI?

A Roush Ford dealer (and he was quite technically competent) has advised that a K&N high flow filter in the standard air box is more than adequate for the GT & the V6 (BTW it is the same filter and air box). It takes air from beside the rad in the grill area thereby getting cold air. He thinks it might even be colder than the CIA's that are inside the engine compartment. With the K&N filter no tune is required although he does recommend a tune if you want a more responsive drive. He stated that most want the CIA for the noise factor, in fact the GT has a noise tube to induct the sound into the cabin.

I Know AM monitor this site and would really appreciate their input on this issue.
This is personal opinion, but I think CAI's look Ricey. The stock air-box looks like hell, admittedly, but performance wise, I'll take a K & N anyday. I have one in my GT and my F-150.

Again, this is personal opinion, but I'll stick with what I know works, and that I don't have to tune.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:53 PM   #3
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I went back to stock and a paper filter. I don't notice a difference.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Impact
Please don't shoot the messenger!

Why all the noise about CAI?

A Roush Ford dealer (and he was quite technically competent) has advised that a K&N high flow filter in the standard air box is more than adequate for the GT & the V6 (BTW it is the same filter and air box). It takes air from beside the rad in the grill area thereby getting cold air. He thinks it might even be colder than the CIA's that are inside the engine compartment. With the K&N filter no tune is required although he does recommend a tune if you want a more responsive drive. He stated that most want the CIA for the noise factor, in fact the GT has a noise tube to induct the sound into the cabin.

I Know AM monitor this site and would really appreciate their input on this issue.
It's actually been proven on dyno that the K&N filter for the 3.7 makes it lose power. Only about 1-3 HP though. If your going to get a CAI get one that's tune required or your just wasting cash (unless you just want it for the looks/noise).
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:00 PM   #5
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If you are going to bring up the k&n losing hpthen the no tune cai are just as good as the ones that require a tune. They only net a few more gains

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/air-fi...ltration-test/

K&n ones flow better but filters pretty crappy. Which makes sense.


It's proven that they (cai)provide positive gains and look good to some. Combed with a tune and they are even "better".

The stock intake is a cold air intake, it's just not a as pretty as aftermarket and is made to be quiet.

The only gain for a plain k&n filter would be that it lasts a lifetime.


Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:14 PM   #6
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Also for stock airbox, look at AFE's inverted blue filter for your stock Airbox, it moves air.

Amazon.com: aFe 30-80179 Direct Fit Inverted Replacement Filter: Automotive
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #7
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If you are going to bring up the k&n losing hpthen the no tune cai are just as good as the ones that require a tune. They only net a few more gains

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/air-fi...ltration-test/

K&n ones flow better but filters pretty crappy. Which makes sense.

It's proven that they (cai)provide positive gains and look good to some. Combed with a tune and they are even "better".

The stock intake is a cold air intake, it's just not a as pretty as aftermarket and is made to be quiet.

The only gain for a plain k&n filter would be that it lasts a lifetime.

Just my 2 cents.
I'd have to disagree with the quality of the K & N as a filter. My air duct is cleaner with a properly oiled K & N over a stock filter. CAI may work equally well for a filter. Would LOVE to find a custom painted or brushed aluminum stock air box. They are big and ugly, and certainly not show-worthy.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:10 PM   #8
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I went back to stock and a paper filter. I don't notice a difference.
I noticed a drop in mid torque and my throttle was stiffer feeling when I switched back to stock. So there is something there, albeit 10-15 hp, you can tell in the upper range
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Deep Impact View Post
Please don't shoot the messenger!

Why all the noise about CAI?

A Roush Ford dealer (and he was quite technically competent) has advised that a K&N high flow filter in the standard air box is more than adequate for the GT & the V6 (BTW it is the same filter and air box). It takes air from beside the rad in the grill area thereby getting cold air. He thinks it might even be colder than the CIA's that are inside the engine compartment. With the K&N filter no tune is required although he does recommend a tune if you want a more responsive drive. He stated that most want the CIA for the noise factor, in fact the GT has a noise tube to induct the sound into the cabin.

I Know AM monitor this site and would really appreciate their input on this issue.
If you go on youtube and look for "Jay Leno's Garage" and select the 2013 Boss 302 segment. Leno's guest is a Ford engineer and Jay asks him about the stock airbox.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Retrokid63 View Post
If you go on youtube and look for "Jay Leno's Garage" and select the 2013 Boss 302 segment. Leno's guest is a Ford engineer and Jay asks him about the stock airbox.
Good video. I didn't expect that question/answer would be so specific. Now, if they would just dress up that ugly plastic box!
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:03 AM   #11
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Saw something on motorweek saying not beneficial at all. Takes years to recoop cost after purchase and install. And w more power you'll be using more fuel. I've had k&n in few cars like them. Haven't bitten on this one yet but will regardless of what mw says lol. Ill have to look up the leno thing
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:36 AM   #12
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If you go on youtube and look for "Jay Leno's Garage" and select the 2013 Boss 302 segment. Leno's guest is a Ford engineer and Jay asks him about the stock airbox.
Amen. I've been making this statement for almost a year now on this site and others on how well the stock box flows. And if you want the "noise" of a CAI. then cut off the sound muffler on your stocker, seal up the hole using fiberglass matt, and paint.

Great video; around the 5 minute and 30 second time frame is when they talk about the stock airbox.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:09 AM   #13
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Amen. I've been making this statement for almost a year now on this site and others on how well the stock box flows. And if you want the "noise" of a CAI. then cut off the sound muffler on your stocker, seal up the hole using fiberglass matt, and paint.

Great video; around the 5 minute and 30 second time frame is when they talk about the stock airbox.
Well the stock air box is a cold air intake. I would say it should be common knowledge by now that it is one of the best to come from the factory on a vehicle.

IMO after seeing reviews etc, you get decent/not great/not even good gains on a dyno on an aftermarket cai, Throttle response is noticeably better,it looks good, and sounds cool to some. If they all were say $125/150 retail this would be a mute point I would think. They are pricey new.

I can attest to the looks/sound/throttle. So of you have the money to spend then do it. There are worse things to spend money on. If you don't that's cool and your car will be fine

I liked that video because that was the first time I was thinking jay may be a car guy and not a Rich celeb with nice cars. That gut had such a nice collection of cars.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #14
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^+1 on the pricing. $260 to $350 is a bit much for so little gains. It's a "gotta have it" issue that keeps the price up there. Personally, my price point is a max of $200 or less considering all the hardware involved with a CAI. It's just a tube, clamps, filter and a flimsy box for the JTL at $259. I can buy alot of other mods that work with that money. Let's see, a tuner suddenly comes to mind. $100 more with huge gains. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #15
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Amen. I've been making this statement for almost a year now on this site and others on how well the stock box flows. And if you want the "noise" of a CAI. then cut off the sound muffler on your stocker, seal up the hole using fiberglass matt, and paint.

Great video; around the 5 minute and 30 second time frame is when they talk about the stock airbox.
I do agree to this but at 6:20 they also say that the stock shifter is better than aftermarket. Bahaha yea right. I wonder what they would have to say about that if I showed them the stock rear bracket held together with zip ties. And then let him drive my boss with the MGW . I think I'd make a believer outta Jay
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:01 AM   #16
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I do agree to this but at 6:20 they also say that the stock shifter is better than aftermarket. Bahaha yea right. I wonder what they would have to say about that if I showed them the stock rear bracket held together with zip ties. And then let him drive my boss with the MGW . I think I'd make a believer outta Jay
Lol
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:10 AM   #17
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I do agree to this but at 6:20 they also say that the stock shifter is better than aftermarket. Bahaha yea right. I wonder what they would have to say about that if I showed them the stock rear bracket held together with zip ties. And then let him drive my boss with the MGW . I think I'd make a believer outta Jay
This is true. The MGW is much greater then stock.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #18
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The stock air box is very good.

As far as the K&N drop in filter is concerned it wworks very well but is much thinner then the stock Ford filter. I'm thinking the oil on the K&N drop in catches the small dirt particals. The Ford filter has much more surface area and because of that will flow just as much air.

I bought my Airaid for the looks when I open the hood. ( I had the K&N drop in already installed ) One thing I did notice as soon as I drove my car was the much better throttle response with the Airaid.

If I had to do it all over again I would just have gotten the Airaid first and saved $$$$.

I like the fact that the Airaid seals at tho top against the hood so your not pulling hot engine air into the filter. ( Most of the other brands do the same-Some don't)
I love the look of my engine compartment with the Airaid installed.



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Old 08-28-2013, 05:17 PM   #19
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Amen. I've been making this statement for almost a year now on this site and others on how well the stock box flows. And if you want the "noise" of a CAI. then cut off the sound muffler on your stocker, seal up the hole using fiberglass matt, and paint.

Great video; around the 5 minute and 30 second time frame is when they talk about the stock airbox.


Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3892277164.jpg
Views:	894
Size:	499.1 KB
ID:	126314

Is this the sound muffler on the side of the tube you are cutting off? Hope the picture attachment worked...
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:08 PM   #20
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Attachment 126314

Is this the sound muffler on the side of the tube you are cutting off? Hope the picture attachment worked...
I wondered all summer why someone just didn't sell just that part of the tube to replace that stock tube with the muffler on it. Would be simple and low cost.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #21
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I wondered all summer why someone just didn't sell just that part of the tube to replace that stock tube with the muffler on it. Would be simple and low cost.
There's a couple of stainless intake tubes on eBay, but they look like hell. Instead of being formed, they're welded in straight segments. They look very DIY.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:36 PM   #22
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http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ir-intake.html

Just found this link. Not that I would do everything the same, but shows tube which I was really wondering about.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:52 AM   #23
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Attachment 126314

Is this the sound muffler on the side of the tube you are cutting off? Hope the picture attachment worked...
Yes it was. A simple dremmel tool cuts it off cleanly, and then a fiberglass kit from your local parts store (comes with enough fiberglass matt, the fiberglass and hardner). Let it set, then use some body filler if sanding the fiverglass leaves behind a few "dimples", then sand again and paint.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:05 PM   #24
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Yes it was. A simple dremmel tool cuts it off cleanly, and then a fiberglass kit from your local parts store (comes with enough fiberglass matt, the fiberglass and hardner). Let it set, then use some body filler if sanding the fiverglass leaves behind a few "dimples", then sand again and paint.
And it gives it an aggressive sound? I would rather not cut my stocker up. I wonder if anyone wants to sell just the tube cheap?
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:25 PM   #25
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And it gives it an aggressive sound? I would rather not cut my stocker up. I wonder if anyone wants to sell just the tube cheap?
You can get the tube at this link for $68.68

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Old 08-29-2013, 02:40 PM   #26
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Thanks! I found that link the other day but I only had a couple minutes to look earlier today and didn't see it. You saved me some time!
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:43 PM   #27
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Thanks! I found that link the other day but I only had a couple minutes to look earlier today and didn't see it. You saved me some time!
My pleasure. The one for $68 is for the the manual and they have another for $76 for the automatic. Either way, it's a hell of alot less than a new CAI. About $200 less!
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:07 PM   #28
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Ya know, I'm lookin' at the Steeda CAI, and the intake hose on that guy might just work to replace the stock intake hose. Any takers on that idea?

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:04 PM   #29
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My pleasure. The one for $68 is for the the manual and they have another for $76 for the automatic. Either way, it's a hell of alot less than a new CAI. About $200 less!
I'm really just looking for sound since I don't want to tune right now for my own personal comfort level, ie warranty. Plus it sounds like the stock box flows pretty well on its own. I might pick up one of these tubes to play with and get the AFE dry filter below. What do you guys think?

http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...rtno=31-80179&
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:31 AM   #30
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If you can access those holes from inside the tube, how about stuffing some insulation down the holes and then pouring the fiberglass resin in to top off the hole? That would keep the insulation in place, keep the air from entering, save the work of cutting and repairing, and retain the stock look.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:33 AM   #31
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Just went outside and took another look. I could probably just seal those holes up from the inside with duct tape. No insulation, no cutting, and easy to undo by just taking the tape back off.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #32
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Just went outside and took another look. I could probably just seal those holes up from the inside with duct tape. No insulation, no cutting, and easy to undo by just taking the tape back off.
I feel like in theory this would be a good idea, but I don't know how the tape would hold up to the heat and humidity it would be subjected to.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #33
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Bad idea

Yes I said it: A really bad idea said it again.

Filling the holes with duct tape on the inside would not be to wise. That is unless you really want it to come loose and be sucked into the MAF. If you don't want to do it right like Bucko did I suggest you do not do it at all.

The engine sucks a tremendous amount of air and would suck the tape off as faster then you put it on.

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Old 08-30-2013, 01:15 PM   #34
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Yes it was. A simple dremmel tool cuts it off cleanly, and then a fiberglass kit from your local parts store (comes with enough fiberglass matt, the fiberglass and hardner). Let it set, then use some body filler if sanding the fiverglass leaves behind a few "dimples", then sand again and paint.
Would you say the muffler delete is more of an in the car or out of the car sound mod? I taped off the holes from the inside just to see if it made a difference, and while driving I would have to say if there was any difference it was barely noticeable. Does it affect mainly under hood sound, or will it also affect the sound coming out of my Magnaflow Streets?
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
Yes I said it: A really bad idea said it again.

Filling the holes with duct tape on the inside would not be to wise. That is unless you really want it to come loose and be sucked into the MAF. If you don't want to do it right like Bucko did I suggest you do not do it at all.

The engine sucks a tremendous amount of air and would suck the tape off as faster then you put it on.

Ronnie
If I'm not mistaken, the MAF sensor is before the resonator, so it wouldn't be the MAF sensor to worry about. It would be sucking the tape into the intake that would be the concern.
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