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Old 08-30-2013, 04:09 PM   #1
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More low end torque without gears???

I have been looking to add more low end torque to my car without immediately voiding the warranty. I absolutely will not replace the rear gears.

So far, I have came to the conclusion that:

A cold air intake doesn't do much of anything without a tune.

Headers don't do a whole lot without a tune.

An axle back exhaust does nothing besides change how the car sounds.

Basically, in order to get any power out of these cars, a tune seems to be required. Except ...

A BBK throttle body. BBK posted a video that shows huge torque gains in the lower RPMs where I am looking to add more power and without a tune thus keeping my warranty intact. Unless it does, then it looks like a tune might be in order anyways.

In the video, they display a dyno graph (at 2:18) showing a massive gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm. The peak gains however, are relatively small. A peak gain of 2ft-lbs and 4 rwhp.

Here is a link to the video -


That is where I am looking for the gains, from 1,000 - 3,000 rpm. That is where my car spends the majority of it's time, so, if these gains are true then I would have no issues shelling out the money for one.

I know that some people on here have them, some claim they do nothing, others claim they made a difference. I want to know does it work or is it a waste of money? I am not looking to improve my 0-60 or ¼ mile time, just improve the drive-ability of the car at low rpm.

I would love if American Muscle or someone else were to independently test this, by itself to see if these gains are real world or just some dyno fudging voodoo numbers.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:22 PM   #2
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a throttle body is only going to really give you gains if you combine it with a tune... And for the 3.7 it really is the gears holding the car back. On the note of not voiding the warranty, there really is not much, if anything that you can do that won't void the warranty.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:59 PM   #3
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In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
Interesting.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
lol that's as much a headers. I hope your kidding believing that crap
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
False no, but dyno numbers can be manipulated. Change the outside temp to a very cold number and you will gain alot of power without doing anything. You need to realize its marketing.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish416
In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
I wouldn't trust a companies dyno testing. They can make the gains anything they want to show. You really need to read individuals review, which are negative. A throttle body really is worthless for a N/A car.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
In the video and on youtube BBK claims the car had no tune,yet, it showed a gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm on their dyno.

So, you are calling their claim false?
Not saying they are 100% true

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

People will always do whatever it takes to sell their product... Just remember that
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #9
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With the bigger throttle body, you'll need a tune as its more air coming in. Then strapping on a steeda with the jello tube would actually be worth something. It's on a low priority on my mod list. It's after the wheels which is after the tuner which is first
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:11 PM   #10
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have fun with a nice BBK paper weight. it'll only be useful if you are FI bro
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
I have been looking to add more low end torque to my car without immediately voiding the warranty. I absolutely will not replace the rear gears.

So far, I have came to the conclusion that:

A cold air intake doesn't do much of anything without a tune.

Headers don't do a whole lot without a tune.

An axle back exhaust does nothing besides change how the car sounds.

Basically, in order to get any power out of these cars, a tune seems to be required. Except ...

A BBK throttle body. BBK posted a video that shows huge torque gains in the lower RPMs where I am looking to add more power and without a tune thus keeping my warranty intact. Unless it does, then it looks like a tune might be in order anyways.

In the video, they display a dyno graph (at 2:18) showing a massive gain of 36ft-lbs and 18rwhp @ 2,600 rpm. The peak gains however, are relatively small. A peak gain of 2ft-lbs and 4 rwhp.

Here is a link to the video -

That is where I am looking for the gains, from 1,000 - 3,000 rpm. That is where my car spends the majority of it's time, so, if these gains are true then I would have no issues shelling out the money for one.

I know that some people on here have them, some claim they do nothing, others claim they made a difference. I want to know does it work or is it a waste of money? I am not looking to improve my 0-60 or ¼ mile time, just improve the drive-ability of the car at low rpm.

I would love if American Muscle or someone else were to independently test this, by itself to see if these gains are real world or just some dyno fudging voodoo numbers.
Bro, I'm so lost with what your trying to do. I'm reading your post and your not looking to improve your 0-60 or 1/4 mile time. You only want to improve the drive ability of the car down low. What does that mean? I'm lost in the sauce boss. The throttle body alone is a waste of money and will do nothing but greatly improve your bank account being sucked 400 dollars short. Your wallet will have amazing low end spend ability should you buy the throttle body.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:21 AM   #12
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Bro, I'm so lost with what your trying to do. I'm reading your post and your not looking to improve your 0-60 or 1/4 mile time. You only want to improve the drive ability of the car down low. What does that mean? I'm lost in the sauce boss. The throttle body alone is a waste of money and will do nothing but greatly improve your bank account being sucked 400 dollars short. Your wallet will have amazing low end spend ability should you buy the throttle body.
It means that I do the majority of my driving between 1,000 - 3,000 rpm. I am looking for more torque/power in that area. I am not all that concerned with peak hp/tq numbers at this time.

Here is a screenshot from BBK's video that I posted in my original post. This screenshot was taken at 2:13 from that video.


BBK claims that the car is 100% stock and that a tune is not required for their TB.


It clearly doesn't show much, if any gains over 4,500 rpm. However, below that, where they have 2,600 rpm marked, that is a huge gain. Notice that the car is "supposedly" putting down 235.27ft-lbs of torque with the throttle body. Stock, it is "supposedly" putting down 199.37ft-lbs at the same RPM.

Now here is where it gets tricky and some people seem to get lost..

Stock, the car only puts down a peak (maximum) of 238.42ft-lbs on this dyno. The BBK TB only puts down 240.59ft-lbs for a difference of .... 2.17ft-lbs which is easily within the realm of error.

However, compare the torque curves of the stock run to the TB run, in the lower RPM (2,100 - 4,000) the TB is making a significant difference in both horsepower and torque. Also keep in mind that at just 2,500 rpm, the TB is "supposedly" making more torque than the stock car does until 4,200 rpm. Therefore improving drive-ability of the car at lower rpm. While not making any signifigant gains past 4,300 rpm.

So for someone like me who typically spends most of their time driving the car at half throttle or less, I might see a substantial difference, more than someone who drives consistently at or near the red line.

I am just looking for someone that has one to see if they can attest to the low rpm performance of the TB as I know it does relatively nothing for peak hp/tq. Or did BBK pull some dyno manipulation/number fudging in order to produce these results.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:23 AM   #13
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Looks like someone wasn't 100% WOT on the low end in first pull
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post

It means that I do the majority of my driving between 1,000 - 3,000 rpm. I am looking for more torque/power in that area. I am not all that concerned with peak hp/tq numbers at this time.

Here is a screenshot from BBK's video that I posted in my original post. This screenshot was taken at 2:13 from that video.

BBK claims that the car is 100% stock and that a tune is not required for their TB.

It clearly doesn't show much, if any gains over 4,500 rpm. However, below that, where they have 2,600 rpm marked, that is a huge gain. Notice that the car is "supposedly" putting down 235.27ft-lbs of torque with the throttle body. Stock, it is "supposedly" putting down 199.37ft-lbs at the same RPM.

Now here is where it gets tricky and some people seem to get lost..

Stock, the car only puts down a peak (maximum) of 238.42ft-lbs on this dyno. The BBK TB only puts down 240.59ft-lbs for a difference of .... 2.17ft-lbs which is easily within the realm of error.

However, compare the torque curves of the stock run to the TB run, in the lower RPM (2,100 - 4,000) the TB is making a significant difference in both horsepower and torque. Also keep in mind that at just 2,500 rpm, the TB is "supposedly" making more torque than the stock car does until 4,200 rpm. Therefore improving drive-ability of the car at lower rpm. While not making any signifigant gains past 4,300 rpm.

So for someone like me who typically spends most of their time driving the car at half throttle or less, I might see a substantial difference, more than someone who drives consistently at or near the red line.

I am just looking for someone that has one to see if they can attest to the low rpm performance of the TB as I know it does relatively nothing for peak hp/tq. Or did BBK pull some dyno manipulation/number fudging in order to produce these results.
Would you rather trust people trying to sell a product, or people with actual experience in this subject? Just my .02
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:49 AM   #15
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My choice...Buy gears. More torque all of the time. At any rpm and any gear.

To be honest, you (seem to) keep fighting to convince us the throttle body will work. If you want it and think it will work, buy it.

---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Lol..I should have paid attention to the title...

If no gears is your choice and you need to try this throttle body out, go for it.

But I would not.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:28 AM   #16
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Almost 40ft torque for a TB!!! If that was really true people would be buying those left and right
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:32 AM   #17
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I love my 2.73! Aw who am I kidding! They suck! But for me a TB, shorties, and some big, meaty tires will suffice along with LCA. Then maybe once I replace the engine I'll do a gear swap. Don't forget the spacer and cold air intake too! That's about all the engine work I'll do.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:40 AM   #18
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I love my 2.73! Aw who am I kidding! They suck! But for me a TB, shorties, and some big, meaty tires will suffice along with LCA. Then maybe once I replace the engine I'll do a gear swap. Don't forget the spacer and cold air intake too! That's about all the engine work I'll do.
What!!
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:41 AM   #19
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Almost 40ft torque for a TB!!! If that was really true people would be buying those left and right
+1000000!

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ----------

Just get gears and call it a day!
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post

It means that I do the majority of my driving between 1,000 - 3,000 rpm. I am looking for more torque/power in that area. I am not all that concerned with peak hp/tq numbers at this time.

Here is a screenshot from BBK's video that I posted in my original post. This screenshot was taken at 2:13 from that video.

BBK claims that the car is 100% stock and that a tune is not required for their TB.

It clearly doesn't show much, if any gains over 4,500 rpm. However, below that, where they have 2,600 rpm marked, that is a huge gain. Notice that the car is "supposedly" putting down 235.27ft-lbs of torque with the throttle body. Stock, it is "supposedly" putting down 199.37ft-lbs at the same RPM.

Now here is where it gets tricky and some people seem to get lost..

Stock, the car only puts down a peak (maximum) of 238.42ft-lbs on this dyno. The BBK TB only puts down 240.59ft-lbs for a difference of .... 2.17ft-lbs which is easily within the realm of error.

However, compare the torque curves of the stock run to the TB run, in the lower RPM (2,100 - 4,000) the TB is making a significant difference in both horsepower and torque. Also keep in mind that at just 2,500 rpm, the TB is "supposedly" making more torque than the stock car does until 4,200 rpm. Therefore improving drive-ability of the car at lower rpm. While not making any signifigant gains past 4,300 rpm.

So for someone like me who typically spends most of their time driving the car at half throttle or less, I might see a substantial difference, more than someone who drives consistently at or near the red line.

I am just looking for someone that has one to see if they can attest to the low rpm performance of the TB as I know it does relatively nothing for peak hp/tq. Or did BBK pull some dyno manipulation/number fudging in order to produce these results.
Bro, since you don't want to chance ruining your warranty and certainly can understand this, just enjoy your car the way it is. People are telling you the throttle body will do nothing but yet your trying to prove it does. If your so convinced , with all due respect then go buy it. Its your money, rock out.

Report back and godspeed. If your not willing to tune, not willing to install gears then your SOL on down low power. Just trying to keep it real for ya. Lol
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:57 AM   #21
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I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy these. I am simply providing the data that they are claiming to be true.

I typically don't take people/businesses at their word (hence this thread), unless they have data to back up what they claim. I know dyno graphs can be manipulated that is why I was asking for someone to post theirs. I want to believe that an increase of 36ft-lbs down low is possible from a simple bolt-on but I know this to typically not be true.

So nobody has any dyno graphs of a before and after with one of these installed?
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish416
I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy these. I am simply providing the data that they are claiming to be true.

I typically don't take people/businesses at their word (hence this thread), unless they have data to back up what they claim. I know dyno graphs can be manipulated that is why I was asking for someone to post theirs. I want to believe that an increase of 36ft-lbs down low is possible from a simple bolt-on but I know this to typically not be true.

So nobody has any dyno graphs of a before and after with one of these installed?
If you want more down-low torque get shorty headers. They are proven (individuals dyno not company) to provide significant torque gains down low and mid range (1500-4000). And they are cheap too, but a pain to install yourself.
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:58 AM   #23
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I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy these. I am simply providing the data that they are claiming to be true.

I typically don't take people/businesses at their word (hence this thread), unless they have data to back up what they claim. I know dyno graphs can be manipulated that is why I was asking for someone to post theirs. I want to believe that an increase of 36ft-lbs down low is possible from a simple bolt-on but I know this to typically not be true.

So nobody has any dyno graphs of a before and after with one of these installed?
I would be very surprised to find someone that just installed the throttle body alone and no other mods. Typically, the throttle body would be used along with other mods to compliment each other. Tune, CAI, throttle body, headers, off road x pipe, larger intake manifold , cat back or axle back exhaust. As a whole package to enhance the performance. Adding a mod like a throttle body alone and expecting better power is like baking a cake with flour only. Pretty sure you need more ingredients to complete that final cake.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:11 AM   #24
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What's the return policy? Try it out and if it does not perform as advertised, return it.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #25
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What's the return policy? Try it out and if it does not perform as advertised, return it.
AM won't return anything once it's been on your car. First hand experience with them on that. As long as its not bolted on the car, you can return it.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:27 PM   #26
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I think real world gains are 4-5 hp and 6-7 tq. AFM has a giant thread on them. I believe the consensus was it definitely gives more throttle response and some more oomph down low below 3k rpms. If i remember that was almost undisputed it was more of most thought it was too much for what it does.

For $300 bucks it is pricey IMO. I would buy one if they were $150 but I still may if I get some extra money I feel like burning. I think it could help with my tune,cai, and lths.

I say if you have the money and or ok with getting some better throttle response and maybe a butt dyno feel downlow go for it.

That's just my 2 cents. I think I could use that money and get a new spoiler and a shorty antenna for a few more $$$s.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:55 PM   #27
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I think real world gains are 4-5 hp and 6-7 tq. AFM has a giant thread on them. I believe the consensus was it definitely gives more throttle response and some more oomph down low below 3k rpms. If i remember that was almost undisputed it was more of most thought it was too much for what it does.

For $300 bucks it is pricey IMO. I would buy one if they were $150 but I still may if I get some extra money I feel like burning. I think it could help with my tune,cai, and lths.

I say if you have the money and or ok with getting some better throttle response and maybe a butt dyno feel downlow go for it.

That's just my 2 cents. I think I could use that money and get a new spoiler and a shorty antenna for a few more $$$s.
There 400 bucks, not 300 bucks. Lol.. The OP is talking about this one mod with no other mods to go with it. Waste of money but its not my money so go for it. I would only consider a larger throttle body when and if they ever make a larger intake manifold for our V6 models.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:01 PM   #28
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There 400 bucks, not 300 bucks. Lol.. The OP is talking about this one mod with no other mods to go with it.
Dang. Why was I thinking they are $300? Oh well. I still think it would give him better throttle etc down low but for $400 I would pass and go CAI and tune which will be more bang for his buck.

I wish I did the tune right away. The shift points etc make a world of difference.

I'm outta here. Football time
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:05 PM   #29
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Dang. Why was I thinking they are $300? Oh well. I still think it would give him better throttle etc down low but for $400 I would pass and go CAI and tune which will be more bang for his buck.

I wish I did the tune right away. The shift points etc make a world of difference.

I'm outta here. Football time
Tune and CAI heck yeah but the OP doesn't want to do any mods that will ruin their factory number. They only looking to buy a throttle body and has no current mods.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:07 PM   #30
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Tune and CAI heck yeah but the OP doesn't want to do any mods that will ruin their factory number. They only looking to buy a throttle body and has no current mods.
I can't wait till mine come in!!!!
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:10 PM   #31
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Lighter wheels and tires. Every pound of rotational mass is like spinning 4 pounds. If u get 17 wheels that way 45 pounds each combined with the tire it will free up torque. Stock 17 wheels and tires way 51 pounds plus. It will handle much better too.

Every 100 lbs is 1/10 of a second in the 1/4 mile...
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:11 PM   #32
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I could be wrong, but I dont think OP is concerned about the money in regards to the part. He's got a built Z28 and a Talon he has dropped a couple of motors in. He just wants to know if the tb will provide any low end torque that will compliment the factory gearing. I can't imagine it won't help low end throttle response at the very least. May not show up on a Dyno sheet as advertised but may provide the feel your looking for
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by xxPIKExx View Post
I could be wrong, but I dont think OP is concerned about the money in regards to the part. He's got a built Z28 and a Talon he has dropped a couple of motors in. He just wants to know if the tb will provide any low end torque that will compliment the factory gearing. I can't imagine it won't help low end throttle response at the very least. May not show up on a Dyno sheet as advertised but may provide the feel your looking for
Sell the z and talon, problem solved.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:12 PM   #34
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At the very least it will help with throttle lag..
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxPIKExx View Post
I could be wrong, but I dont think OP is concerned about the money in regards to the part. He's got a built Z28 and a Talon he has dropped a couple of motors in. He just wants to know if the tb will provide any low end torque that will compliment the factory gearing. I can't imagine it won't help low end throttle response at the very least. May not show up on a Dyno sheet as advertised but may provide the feel your looking for
The factory gearing on the 11 plus v6 is horrible and your gonna need a lot more than a throttle body to help those gas crappy 2:73 gears. Lmao. Minimum tune and 3:73 gears. Lol

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

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At the very least it will help with throttle lag..
OP should leave it stock until there factory warranty is over and done with.
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