Running lean/too rich issue - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 01-25-2014, 07:30 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
bazinga11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burbs
Region: Canada
Posts: 1,404
Running lean/too rich issue

Hey felahs, Im in kind of dilemma with my '14 V6. Its manual transmission, with a CAI (meaning an extra hole not accounted for on the pipe.. As seen in the picture). The other day I was at dealership and this mechanic was like you need to cover up at that hole since it is 'after' MAF sensor (which adjust the air-fuel ratio according to amount air drawn from the filter).

He was like you're pushing in extra air unaccounted by the MAF sensor, so the air-fuel ratio reaching the engine is not the same as set by MAF sensor. He goes your warranty could get void if shiet down in future.

I have covered the hole for now. As for the driveability, it feels 'comparatively less responsive' and the grumble/revs of my engine under WOT were 'slightly' louder.

- I'm wondering if I was running too lean/rich back then (for good 5-6 months)?

- Is anyone among you guys running the same setup (uncovered hole) and if it has any disadvantages over the performance of my engine?

|| BlackOnBlack ||
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1390699555402.jpg
Views:	238
Size:	79.6 KB
ID:	145765  
bazinga11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-25-2014, 08:17 PM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
The CAI should have had a plug for you to put in that hole, recheck your instruction sheet. You were running too lean most likely with a vacuum leak.

if you had a code reader on it you could see if you "had" a "pending" too lean code. Once it would have gone into a Hard code you would have gotten a Check Engine Light. Since you never got the CEL, most likely your short and long term fuel trims moved out to the edge ading more fuel to make up for it.They can move like 20-25%

Now that you plugged it up, if it were me I would pull the battery cable for a good 30 mins or so. This will make the ECU relearn the engine behaviour all over again correctly and your performance should return.

If you have a smart phone, look into getting the APP "Torque". You can get BlueTooth OBDII DOngles on Amazon to read all your cars performance figures on the fly with it.

Art (Ps if you lost the instruction sheet, the manufacture likely has one for download on their website)
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 09:46 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
bazinga11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burbs
Region: Canada
Posts: 1,404
Thanks a lot for your insight. The funny thing is I kept getting around 28-29mpg hwy. So like if it was burning more fuel to compensate for extra air, I believer I would have gotten slightly worse mileage?

But this is what I'm thinking (and I might be wrong) - the engine was getting the same amount of fuel as per MAF data, only difference a touch more air from somewhere else.

|| BlackOnBlack ||
bazinga11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-25-2014, 09:53 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Yea thats like about right in real world, but MPG should not change if within the trim. More air, more fuel, more efficiency (MPG is about that , not just fuel consumption) so stays the same if in the trim. This probably worked because the 2013/14 units have wide band O2 Sensors later down the pipe to adjust fuel trim, that older units did not have, in the exhaust to see if the burn was too lean to add more fuel since the leak was after the MAF.

But the bigger issue is it was running on the very edge of the ECM trim adjustments (never a good thing). Also you could have sucked down some tree, leaf, stick, or small piece of metal crap into that hole after your air filter; Not ever good.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 10:03 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
bazinga11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burbs
Region: Canada
Posts: 1,404
Aye you're absolutely right! Well good thing it was discovered early without any damage (fingers crossed). I will pull the battery wire.

Also, do I have to take out a fuse or something to reset the sensor?

|| BlackOnBlack ||
bazinga11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 10:08 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Pulling the battery will be the same as removing every fuse in the car

The wideband O2 sensors the EPA likes as it adds backup to things going wrong. At the same time it helps us make good power with keeping good air.

Remember it will take a few days for your ECM to relearn everything. If you don't have snow/ice like we do; make sure to do some good but legal 0-60 on ramp runs to get it to learn what you like to do.

Art
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 10:11 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
bazinga11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burbs
Region: Canada
Posts: 1,404
Cheers thanks art

|| BlackOnBlack ||
bazinga11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 08:11 AM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Whitelightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tuscaloosa
Region: Alabama
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
Hey felahs, Im in kind of dilemma with my '14 V6. Its manual transmission, with a CAI (meaning an extra hole not accounted for on the pipe.. As seen in the picture). The other day I was at dealership and this mechanic was like you need to cover up at that hole since it is 'after' MAF sensor (which adjust the air-fuel ratio according to amount air drawn from the filter).

He was like you're pushing in extra air unaccounted by the MAF sensor, so the air-fuel ratio reaching the engine is not the same as set by MAF sensor. He goes your warranty could get void if shiet down in future.

I have covered the hole for now. As for the driveability, it feels 'comparatively less responsive' and the grumble/revs of my engine under WOT were 'slightly' louder.

- I'm wondering if I was running too lean/rich back then (for good 5-6 months)?

- Is anyone among you guys running the same setup (uncovered hole) and if it has any disadvantages over the performance of my engine?

|| BlackOnBlack ||

To add, call Airaid. They will send you parts. I asked for a rubber seal on the crank case valve, they sent 3! And stickers! FREE!
__________________
Any Speed over 55 mph may kill you... that's why i drive 60
Whitelightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 08:25 AM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
[OP posted: the grumble/revs of my engine under WOT were 'slightly' louder. ]

I wanted to add in review that this part was likely because you had an open hole in the tube for the sound. Sorta like the sound tube effect. Better to not worry about damaging vacuum leak.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 09:25 AM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post
The CAI should have had a plug for you to put in that hole, recheck your instruction sheet. You were running too lean most likely with a vacuum leak.

if you had a code reader on it you could see if you "had" a "pending" too lean code. Once it would have gone into a Hard code you would have gotten a Check Engine Light. Since you never got the CEL, most likely your short and long term fuel trims moved out to the edge ading more fuel to make up for it.They can move like 20-25%

Now that you plugged it up, if it were me I would pull the battery cable for a good 30 mins or so. This will make the ECU relearn the engine behaviour all over again correctly and your performance should return.

If you have a smart phone, look into getting the APP "Torque". You can get BlueTooth OBDII DOngles on Amazon to read all your cars performance figures on the fly with it.

Art (Ps if you lost the instruction sheet, the manufacture likely has one for download on their website)
If one disconnects the battery cable for the 30 minutes do you need to reinstall your tune after you reconnect the battery?
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 11:35 AM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
Black12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Prescott
Region: Arizona
Posts: 274
If you didn't get a code, it will repair. If you drove with a code that long, your in trouble. Most tuners have code read ability. You can check it yourself if you have one.
Black12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 11:54 AM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
If one disconnects the battery cable for the 30 minutes do you need to reinstall your tune after you reconnect the battery?
No, or else you would have needed Ford to reinstall the factory tune each time you had service that starts with removing battery power for safety, or folks would need re-factory tuned anytime they were stranded with a dead battery.

The ECU tunes are stored in Flash Memory. Most, but not all, self calibration memory locations are stored in battery backup memory; and will get reset with a battery outage.Then the ECU relearns its local calibration. For example, moving to Denver from New Orleans would benefit a ECU relearn process for the thinner air in Denver from below sea level in New Orleans.

Some black box data is stored in non-volatile memory for Ford or maybe even NTSB study; like as I was told unofficially "Over speed/rpm" events and certain G forces. Folks on the SVT forum have talked about this as well. One person on that forum has a Dealer Engineer friend that talks about if Ford gets sent the ECU, they can see what's been done no matter what.

I use Torque Android App to tell when the ECU has fully re-learned the local calibrations. Usually in about 100 miles and 2-3 days. You can see the progress of various functions turn from Yellow to Green. Evaporative settings seem to be the item that is always the last item to get learned while misfires get learned in an hour or even mins/secs for example.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 01:35 PM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post

No, or else you would have needed Ford to reinstall the factory tune each time you had service that starts with removing battery power for safety, or folks would need re-factory tuned anytime they were stranded with a dead battery.

The ECU tunes are stored in Flash Memory. Most, but not all, self calibration memory locations are stored in battery backup memory; and will get reset with a battery outage.Then the ECU relearns its local calibration. For example, moving to Denver from New Orleans would benefit a ECU relearn process for the thinner air in Denver from below sea level in New Orleans.

Some black box data is stored in non-volatile memory for Ford or maybe even NTSB study; like as I was told unofficially "Over speed/rpm" events and certain G forces. Folks on the SVT forum have talked about this as well. One person on that forum has a Dealer Engineer friend that talks about if Ford gets sent the ECU, they can see what's been done no matter what.

I use Torque Android App to tell when the ECU has fully re-learned the local calibrations. Usually in about 100 miles and 2-3 days. You can see the progress of various functions turn from Yellow to Green. Evaporative settings seem to be the item that is always the last item to get learned while misfires get learned in an hour or even mins/secs for example.
I just paid the 5 dollars for the Torque app. The thing is way cool. It monitors tons of things. I hope its accurate which according to its reviews, its amazing. I just purchased on eBay a Bluetooth OBII connector. What graph on torque do you use to see if the ECU has fully learned its local calibrations?
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 04:10 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
If you swipe your fingers to the left from the Torque Realtime screens; one of the stock screens will appear just after the screen with 0-60/1/43 mile times. Its called Emissions Readiness s/DTC. It will simply say waiting for OBD connection until you get one.

If you get one of the "finicky" dongles sold, dont despair. Some have problems pairing and you keep getting Blue Tooth Pairing request, you put in the "1234" code and it simply keeps repeating while your in Torque. I have two, one works O-ok the other is finicky like many reviews talk about.

If its finicky, put Torque in adapter status mode, and when if it asks for the pairing code a second time, remove the dongle and put it back in the ODB socket(rebooting it). The next request for the pairing code should then work.

Art
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 05:14 PM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
bazinga11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burbs
Region: Canada
Posts: 1,404
Hey Art, so I tried unhooking the battery wire. Turns out I don't have the 'tools' needed to do so lol. I'm wondering you know what fuse(s) I can unplug to reset the calibration you were talking about? -so that it can re learn the driving behavior

|| BlackOnBlack ||
bazinga11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 05:38 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post
If you swipe your fingers to the left from the Torque Realtime screens; one of the stock screens will appear just after the screen with 0-60/1/43 mile times. Its called Emissions Readiness s/DTC. It will simply say waiting for OBD connection until you get one.

If you get one of the "finicky" dongles sold, dont despair. Some have problems pairing and you keep getting Blue Tooth Pairing request, you put in the "1234" code and it simply keeps repeating while your in Torque. I have two, one works O-ok the other is finicky like many reviews talk about.

If its finicky, put Torque in adapter status mode, and when if it asks for the pairing code a second time, remove the dongle and put it back in the ODB socket(rebooting it). The next request for the pairing code should then work.

Art
Thanks bro. This is the one I put an offer in.



Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20140126_183734.png
Views:	281
Size:	128.4 KB
ID:	145957
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:03 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Thanks bro. This is the one I put an offer in.
Attachment 145957
Most all the China Dongles look the same of 3 different cases, the black one you have, a another black one, and a blue one. But how it works depends on who actually copied it. You dont need to worry, either it works ok or it will work with the work around. Why didnt you just buy it now for $3 more? They likely wont accept offers as those things sell by themselves.

Story, China sourcing of manufactured electronics. Everything looks the same but isn't in China Electronics land. I have had design requests I sent to a factory to get made in China copied by a bother in law factory and made cheaper and different circuit cheating quality in less than 90 days; but they sure looked the same.

What is even more interesting is that most RF devices are not FCC certified yet they put that on the package. What they do is use someone elses FCC-ID number on the customs package.

Art
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:16 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
Hey Art, so I tried unhooking the battery wire. Turns out I don't have the 'tools' needed to do so lol. I'm wondering you know what fuse(s) I can unplug to reset the calibration you were talking about? -so that it can re learn the driving behavior

|| BlackOnBlack ||
I would have no idea on the fuse number and its not #47, that is the fuse for the PCM transmission only. What tool are you missing to remove the cable? The forums I just googled said take the negative battery cable off and turn the headlights on to make it quicker.

I looked over some diagrams and it looks like it could be that you would have to pull more than one. I am not going to make that recommendation that you pull fuses, do what the dealer does and remove the negative cable.

AutoZone loans tools, free sometimes even (deposit required)
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:17 PM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post

Most all the China Dongles look the same of 3 different cases, the black one you have, a another black one, and a blue one. But how it works depends on who actually copied it.

Story, China sourcing of manufactured electronics. Everything looks the same but isn't in China Electronics land. I have had design requests I sent to a factory to get made in China copied by a bother in law factory and made cheaper and different circuit cheating quality in less than 90 days; but they sure looked the same.

What is even more interesting is that most RF devices are not FCC certified yet they put that on the package. What they do is use someone elses FCC-ID number on the customs package.

Art
So hopefully it will work. Lol.
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #20
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
So hopefully it will work. Lol.
Likely it will work ok or it will work with the work around reboot like my blue one needs.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:47 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post

Likely it will work ok or it will work with the work around reboot like my blue one needs.
Is this the one you have. Its on eBay.



Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20140126_194752.png
Views:	289
Size:	172.9 KB
ID:	145969
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 06:58 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Is this the one you have. Its on eBay.
Attachment 145969
As I said, you cant tell by what it looks like. Frankly mine looks like that with a different sticker, but again, 10 units that look alike probably have 3 different systems inside them or different manufacture.

Just dont worry about it, get one and use it. Frankly I use Amazon not FeeBay, better customer service. BTW I paid about $19.95 for mine, but that's immaterial.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 07:44 PM   #23
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post
As I said, you cant tell by what it looks like. Frankly mine looks like that with a different sticker, but again, 10 units that look alike probably have 3 different systems inside them or different manufacture.

Just dont worry about it, get one and use it. Frankly I use Amazon not FeeBay, better customer service. BTW I paid about $19.95 for mine, but that's immaterial.
Lol. Well, if I have any issues with it I'll turn to my go to guy. YOU ! Lol. Your the only person I have heard uses this. It looks super awesome and monitors a bunch of things. How accurate have you found the monitors to be?
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 08:43 PM   #24
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Lol. Well, if I have any issues with it I'll turn to my go to guy. YOU ! Lol. Your the only person I have heard uses this. It looks super awesome and monitors a bunch of things. How accurate have you found the monitors to be?
Torque is used by all kinds of folks in the tuner scene for years, and since it gets the PID data from your car, its as accurate as your cars sensors are! [the OBDII port sends serial data to the bluetooth device that sends it to your smartphone that sends the numbers to the app on the phone, the numbers wont change]

Many dislike the EPA, they have political issues for sure and I don't like their anti-lead issues, wetlands private property grabs, and many other things; but they gave us OBD and OBDII that has allowed this tuning and monitoring of our cars. A great outcome on making these systems keep our cars automatically running correctly, or tell us what is wrong with them.

The CPU speed in your smart phone you use will determine update speed to the displays or your data logging.
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 09:18 PM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
2011 Kona Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Region: Maryland
Posts: 7,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post

Torque is used by all kinds of folks in the tuner scene for years, and since it gets the PID data from your car, its as accurate as your cars sensors are! [the OBDII port sends serial data to the bluetooth device that sends it to your smartphone that sends the numbers to the app on the phone, the numbers wont change]

Many dislike the EPA, they have political issues for sure and I don't like their anti-lead issues, wetlands private property grabs, and many other things; but they gave us OBD and OBDII that has allowed this tuning and monitoring of our cars. A great outcome on making these systems keep our cars automatically running correctly, or tell us what is wrong with them.

The CPU speed in your smart phone you use will determine update speed to the displays or your data logging.
Sounds awesome. Glad its accurate.
2011 Kona Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 10:21 AM   #26
Registered Member
Regular
 
Whitelightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tuscaloosa
Region: Alabama
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtU View Post
I would have no idea on the fuse number and its not #47, that is the fuse for the PCM transmission only. What tool are you missing to remove the cable? The forums I just googled said take the negative battery cable off and turn the headlights on to make it quicker.



I looked over some diagrams and it looks like it could be that you would have to pull more than one. I am not going to make that recommendation that you pull fuses, do what the dealer does and remove the negative cable.



AutoZone loans tools, free sometimes even (deposit required)

I believe he is talking about the positive side. I needed to remove my battery for charging, well not really needed, but wanted to. I couldn't get the positive off. It has a few extra bolts and looks like fuses on it.
__________________
Any Speed over 55 mph may kill you... that's why i drive 60
Whitelightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2014, 03:29 PM   #27
Registered Member
Regular
 
ArtU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Region: Ohio
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelightning View Post
I believe he is talking about the positive side. I needed to remove my battery for charging, well not really needed, but wanted to. I couldn't get the positive off. It has a few extra bolts and looks like fuses on it.
Yea that is true, with the extra charging post, and maybe fusible links part? But the website info say to take the negative cable off the battery.

Art
ArtU is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Found my compression issue 86TBarHatch 1979-1995 Mustang GT 2 12-24-2011 03:36 PM
EVAP issue plaguing Mustangs! fluffyGT06 General Mustang Discussion 2 12-01-2011 12:56 PM
fuel issue Robbie94gt 1979-1995 Mustang GT 7 11-20-2011 05:22 PM
mustang drivability issue wss003 1979-1995 Mustang GT 2 11-02-2011 09:14 PM
gauge issue mrc 1996-2004 Mustang GT 3 09-13-2011 09:14 AM

» Like Us On Facebook



03:22 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.