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Old 06-17-2014, 11:11 PM   #386
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That's true but that vette shouldn't have been getting pulled on after 2nd gear, and it clearly was falling behind.

I know the difference between a fast roll car and a fast strip car. That vette was planted after 2nd gear, even lightly modded it should have started catching up to that mustang let alone with forced induction.
True but idk if he was on street tires, the prep conditions of the track could have hurt him alot. Plus manual - vette and auto mustang.

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Old 06-17-2014, 11:13 PM   #387
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I've been loosely following this thread for a few weeks now.
Judging from the videos it looks like the mustang ran at least a 12.5, and there is no way in hell that c7 is procharged. As previously stated, why no under the hood glance, whistle from the procharger, or slips? Dyno numbers would help too. It doesn't seem slow by any means, just the claim that it can beat a procharged c7 is ridiculous. Like.... absolutely out of this world ridiculous.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:15 PM   #388
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I've been loosely following this thread for a few weeks now.
Judging from the videos it looks like the mustang ran at least a 12.5, and there is no way in hell that c7 is procharged. As previously stated, why no under the hood glance, whistle from the procharger, or slips? Dyno numbers would help too. It doesn't seem slow by any means, just the claim that it can beat a procharged c7 is ridiculous. Like.... absolutely out of this world ridiculous.
Read my previous post. This is stang killers c7. Look it up.

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Old 06-17-2014, 11:22 PM   #389
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Read my previous post. This is stang killers c7. Look it up.

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The driver of the c7 must shift worse than a 16 year old girl on her first day of drivers ed. There is absolutely no way that a procharged c7 should lose to a turbo 3.7, whether its manual-auto or anything. If I was him I'd be beyond crazy that I spent $70,000~ on a procharged c7 that loses to a turbo 3.7, or go get driving lessons.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:24 PM   #390
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The driver of the c7 must shift worse than a 16 year old girl on her first day of drivers ed. There is absolutely no way that a procharged c7 should lose to a turbo 3.7, whether its manual-auto or anything. If I was him I'd be beyond crazy that I spent $70,000~ on a procharged c7 that loses to a turbo 3.7, or go get driving lessons.
You have alot to learn buddy.


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Old 06-17-2014, 11:49 PM   #391
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OK well go talk to anyone that was there and the driver of the c7 who's name is Justin Keith otherwise know as stang kilr. He had the Camaro before. Also not a mid 12s car by any means pretty sure stock c7s run faster than that. My car is moving out good if you see other videos you can see it beat a lot of things than that with more horsepower. I have never gone to the dyno only street tuned it figured videos would be enough but I guess not. No worries track slips this weekend and probably dyno numbers if we can make it to both. The only reason we haven't posted is because we get a lot of questions and a lot of misled things so want to release everything at once and no one can say any thing and all there is is proof. It happened though and I beat him, ask anyone that was there that weekend multiple videos and multiple people who saw also here's a picture of under his hood.

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Old 06-18-2014, 01:31 AM   #392
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Here's some more stuff too. Top picture my car on the left. Bottom picture procharger

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Old 06-18-2014, 04:54 AM   #393
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Clamphier, you know haters gonna hate. Keep on fine tuning and keep the rest of us who care updated on the kit and your progress.


I don't know your dyno numbers (don't really care) but one thing is a fact you beat the procharged vette, the Z28 on the bottle and other various cars in your videos.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:56 AM   #394
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Clamphier, you know haters gonna hate. Keep on fine tuning and keep the rest of us who care updated on the kit and your progress.


I don't know your dyno numbers (don't really care) but one thing is a fact you beat the procharged vette, the Z28 on the bottle and other various cars in your videos.

^This, it's always gonna be hard for some to believe a 3.7 V6 mustang beat anything with more horsepower no matter what you do to it because they are stuck on that "its a V6 mustang" thing. I say well done sir and keep it up!
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:09 AM   #395
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You're also forgetting. Peak numbers mean nothing.
The vette has a pushrod motor...
The 3.7 is essentially a modular motor.
Tivct means adjustable lsa, the 3.7 has a much nicer torque curve, and turbo has a lot more torque than a procharger.

Another thing you should note, c7 has irs vs the mustang's SRA.
We can launch much harder than the vette can,
and the vette is built for roll racing, not so much hooking

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Old 06-18-2014, 10:29 AM   #396
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Thanks guys I appreciate it, been getting a lot of comments back and fourth but at least it's got people thinking! It fun and it beats things and I'll keep getting videos for you guys and keeping yall updated! Should have numbers and time slips this weekend probably!

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Old 06-18-2014, 10:39 AM   #397
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Here's some more proof. Look at the wheels on the c7, and look at their fb page (stang killr)
Same thing.
Doubt there was another red c7 with those exact wheels at okc.



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Old 06-18-2014, 11:38 AM   #398
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You're also forgetting. Peak numbers mean nothing.
The vette has a pushrod motor...
The 3.7 is essentially a modular motor.
Tivct means adjustable lsa, the 3.7 has a much nicer torque curve, and turbo has a lot more torque than a procharger.

Another thing you should note, c7 has irs vs the mustang's SRA.
We can launch much harder than the vette can,
and the vette is built for roll racing, not so much hooking

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Are you really comparing the torque curve of a procharged C& corvette and saying that a turbo 3.7 has a better torque curve......All I can say is WOW GUY.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:22 PM   #399
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Yes, I am.
Heres why
4v will flow much better than a 2v, especially at higher rpm

Adjustable lsa means a kick *** torque curve, the pushrod motor doesn't have that.

Turbos makes significantly more torque than prochargers do

He's on e85, meaning he can advance the timing more than he could with 93, resulting in even more torque.

In addition to all that, the mustang's rear suspension is better suited for a race from a dig.

What's your argument? It's a v8?

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Old 06-18-2014, 12:28 PM   #400
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Yes, I am.
Heres why
4v will flow much better than a 2v, especially at higher rpm

Adjustable lsa means a kick *** torque curve, the pushrod motor doesn't have that.

Turbos makes significantly more torque than prochargers do

He's on e85, meaning he can advance the timing more than he could with 93, resulting in even more torque.

In addition to all that, the mustang's rear suspension is better suited for a race from a dig.

What's your argument? It's a v8?

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^This. You hit the nail on the head. Just because it is a V6 does not mean it is incapable of beating cars way over it's price point with more hp stock. The turbo in the mustang must be really mean if it can take down the cars listed in the forum.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:06 PM   #401
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I didn't mean to come off as rude in my previous posts, I still just find it incredulous that the 3.7 can beat a procharged c7. The numbers this turbo kit must be putting out have to be 475 HP+ 475 TQ+. How are you able to compensate for the insane temperature under the hood? Is this turbo only for the track or can this be used for street driving? The cost of this kit I believe would be about 10k when taking in all these factors. I don't know I didn't build it I've never seen it I am just speculating. Answers to those questions would be good plus a dyno sheet. Again, not calling you out or trying to attack your build, I just am speculative and these are my questions, I'm sure a lot of other people are wondering these same things.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:32 PM   #402
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3.7 turbo mustang

We are estimating around those numbers we haven't gone to the dyno to prove it. Literally through injectors in it street tuned it for a day and took it to OKC. It's not really any more temperature that's what the intercooler helps with really only runs a degree or two hotter than stock. No for sure street I rarely go to the track it is my only car and my daily!

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Old 06-18-2014, 01:33 PM   #403
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Yes, I am.
Heres why
4v will flow much better than a 2v, especially at higher rpm
This shows how little you know and maybe you should read some more and find out before you spew such nonsense. The LT1 heads flow incredible numbers.

Adjustable lsa means a kick *** torque curve, the pushrod motor doesn't have that.

Turbos makes significantly more torque than prochargers do


Again the V8 is making more torque and power way down low before the V6 and turbo wake up. You have zero clue about this subject obviously.

He's on e85, meaning he can advance the timing more than he could with 93, resulting in even more torque.


Ok E85 wow whatever.

In addition to all that, the mustang's rear suspension is better suited for a race from a dig.



The vette would still run down the stang on the big end. That is what gives this video plenty of question marks.

What's your argument? It's a v8?
I drive a V6 and also own an 347 so it has nothing to do with the number of cylinders. I am a car guy plus I have a warrior which has 2 cylinders so no bias here.

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It seems like you have no idea. Your argument has no basis and you have no clue about the new LT1 motor.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:36 PM   #404
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Also smurf look at all dyno sheets from every car turbo compared to Procharger. The tq on turbos are significantly higher

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Old 06-18-2014, 01:44 PM   #405
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We are estimating around those numbers we haven't gone to the dyno to prove it. Literally through injectors in it street tuned it for a day and took it to OKC. It's not really any more temperature that's what the intercooler helps with really only runs a degree or two hotter than stock. No for sure street I rarely go to the track it is my only car and my daily!

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I guess the question is whether you can run that safely and not destroy your car after a year or 2 of daily driving. Like I said, dyno that and after some safety and wear-and-tear tests, you will have a lot of interested people in it for the price. About $1,000 cheaper than the Hellion kit and it seems superior to it (Hellion is overpriced crap IMO). I haven't checked up on CFM's turbo, but I guess they gave up on it?
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:51 PM   #406
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Well I've been driving around on it for about 3 months and race it 4-5 nights a week. I bet we have every bit of 400+ full throttle pulls and race after race. The motor is taking a beating and we are just turning up boost slowly to see what it can handle on 6-9 pounds it seems pretty safe and will smoke 5.0s and a lot of other things on the street. I also have over 7000 miles on the turbo kit which is about half of what most people drive a year. Plus ours comes with a top of the line turbo triple ball bearing oil less turbo and install is about 2 and a half hours. Once we started posting stuff on ours seemed to kick start them but haven't seen anything in a while

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Old 06-18-2014, 01:52 PM   #407
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I understand turbos but so that "other's" know the C7 makes more than 350 torque to the wheels from 2500 rpm till 6k........that is STOCK.


For god's sake it makes more than 300 just about idle.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:53 PM   #408
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There is no question marks in the video there is two views and I beat it I don't understand where your argument is. He may get me at like 140+ because of aerodynamics but I had him the whole track

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Old 06-18-2014, 01:57 PM   #409
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I will give it to you that you beat that C7 that day for whatever reason but that is by no means some sort of measuring stick.


A kill is a kill but till I see some hard facts "proof" then it is very subjective.


Also no argument here just stating the facts.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:02 PM   #410
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Just trust me there is proof just not releasing it yet. The car moves put and apparently is making an abundance of tq. I also beat multiple 600+ cars that there are also videos of and multiple people to verify.

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Old 06-18-2014, 03:09 PM   #411
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I love the fact a base V6 mustang (I paid $19.2K for base auto) could even be in any of those races, let alone winning, for another 6-7 grand (I'm including driveshaft/tires/tuning).

Underdog sleepers have always been the most fun and annoying the crap out of people who spent upwards of 3 times what you did, never gets old.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:30 PM   #412
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That's basically all the fun anyways I didn't go expecting to hang with a lot of that let alone win. Actually surprised myself! Plus still get 30-35 mpg (if you can keep your foot out of it) I can't at all! But the kit is available check it out I'm sure you've seen the videos then we also have a Facebook page killer 6 or check out the website at lpfbuilt.com

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Old 06-18-2014, 03:47 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alrefire View Post
Yes, I am.
Heres why
4v will flow much better than a 2v, especially at higher rpm

Adjustable lsa means a kick *** torque curve, the pushrod motor doesn't have that.

Turbos makes significantly more torque than prochargers do

He's on e85, meaning he can advance the timing more than he could with 93, resulting in even more torque.

In addition to all that, the mustang's rear suspension is better suited for a race from a dig.

What's your argument? It's a v8?

The heads have around the same amount of flow. The best I could find is that the Cyclone 3.7 and Ecoboost 3.5 both flow over 300 cfm - http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...ne-tech-v2.pdf

The new LT1 in the C7 flows 319 cfm - given it's a direct injection engine, therefore the heads were designed with tumble and swirl for better flame propagation. It actually flows less than the LS3 heads - LT1 & L86 6.2L Gen V V8 cylinder head flow data

That said, flow numbers are only one aspect of many that go into making cylinder heads perform well.


This pushrod engine (C7 LT1) does have continuously variable valve timing. Meaning a kick *** torque curve, on top of it's massive displacement advantage.

Turbo's can make more power than prochargers. However, that vette should have more than enough low end power ( 800 - 3,000 rpm ) to more than offset whatever advantage the turbo 3.7 would have. Once that vette starts building boost, it should absolutely dominate that 3.7 in every way possible, especially the 3.7 at low psi.

Even with E85, the torque advantage is still massively in favor of the vette.

Look at this dyno from a completely stock c7 with just a procharger @ 7 psi - C7 completely stock with procharger @ 7 PSI 91 octane

Looks like this vette is putting down about 420 rwtq and 200 rwhp @ 2500 rpm, all this on just 91 octane. I seriously doubt a turbo 3.7 on E85 will do that.


It's generally true that an IRS is less preferred on the drag strip than a solid axle. However, I know way, way to many people who have ran 9's and 10's on stock suspension vettes than guys who have ran 10's on stock suspension Mustangs.

Also, the C7 has already ran 9's on stock suspension. I don't believe any Mustang has ever done that.


I also want to address the fact that clamphier likely has one of the fastest 3.7s in the world. No question on that. It's just that given the very limited data and the claims that have been made, it all seems a bit ... fabricated.

For instance, racing a procharged c7 that put down around 590 whp then sharing a drag strip video of two 12 second cars. When this procharged c7 was getting pulled on more and more after every shift... It's just not possible regardless of if it's setup as a roll race car or not. I own a roll race car, the ET is slow but it's trapping 10 MPH faster than most cars with my ET. I could believe a race where the mustang gets the lead but that vette would be covering ground mighty quick, which your video shows otherwise.

I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties, you have to understand looking at this from our perspective. It just seems too good to be true..
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:51 PM   #414
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Hey guys! How about we do this crazy thing called being patient and in a week or so we should know the actual numbers! thanks clamphier for all your hard work!
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:11 PM   #415
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Didn't know it had that!
I was talking to a friend with an ls3 about cams, and he told me his was fixed. I understand they're different motors, but I thought they were relatively similar.
Learn something new every day :p

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Old 06-18-2014, 04:41 PM   #416
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That video was also both of our worst times of the weekend. But we compared our fastest and I still had him. I'm making peak power at about 3k and it holds all the way to the shift. I don't know how it happens or how it works but should have hp numbers by this weekend or the middle of next week along with track times going Friday. I see your point and where yall are coming from that's just what happened and I promise everything is done to that car that is said. I also raced and beat multiple cars the c7 beat just as bad. I don't know what else to tell you guys minus to wait until we release everything because I don't have any dyno numbers or I would show yall!

You can look at my page and the stang kilr page and everything else that's all I can say for now until we release other numbers for you...

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Old 06-18-2014, 04:54 PM   #417
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'beating' these faster cars means nothing when evaluating a setup especially when dealing with 5-6+ hundred HP cars. When you get to that level of power the driver mod makes a lot bigger difference. It's just not possible that a high 400 - 500 HP 3500+ lb mustang Is FASTER then 3300 lb 650-700 HP C7 (assuming its not an all out drag setup). Now sure put someone who cant drive behind the wheel of the C7 and you might win a race but that doesn't mean your car is faster (2 completely different things).

You were at a drag strip obviously why not post the times? (in your post above you said that was your worst time so clearly you know what you ran) It sounds like a sick setup but you would probable get a lot more respect from people if you said 'I went to the track and ran xx.xx with a xx.xx 60 ft time opposed to boasting about beating 600+ HP cars to evaluate your cars performance.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:07 PM   #418
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Because its not done yet it's only 85% tuned and only on 16 degrees of timing which is less than stock. We did that video specifically just to race stang killer he said he wanted to race so we said sure. I'm not boasting just saying it happened. When it's fully done and tuned we are going to post numbers which will be this weekend. We just wanted to go to okc so got it majority tuned. Just thought it was cool so I posted it like I said didn't expect it to happen just wanted to say I raced it. Numbers and times coming soon

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Old 06-18-2014, 06:14 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Ish416 View Post
The heads have around the same amount of flow. The best I could find is that the Cyclone 3.7 and Ecoboost 3.5 both flow over 300 cfm - http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...ne-tech-v2.pdf

The new LT1 in the C7 flows 319 cfm - given it's a direct injection engine, therefore the heads were designed with tumble and swirl for better flame propagation. It actually flows less than the LS3 heads - LT1 & L86 6.2L Gen V V8 cylinder head flow data

That said, flow numbers are only one aspect of many that go into making cylinder heads perform well.


This pushrod engine (C7 LT1) does have continuously variable valve timing. Meaning a kick *** torque curve, on top of it's massive displacement advantage.

Turbo's can make more power than prochargers. However, that vette should have more than enough low end power ( 800 - 3,000 rpm ) to more than offset whatever advantage the turbo 3.7 would have. Once that vette starts building boost, it should absolutely dominate that 3.7 in every way possible, especially the 3.7 at low psi.

Even with E85, the torque advantage is still massively in favor of the vette.

Look at this dyno from a completely stock c7 with just a procharger @ 7 psi - C7 completely stock with procharger @ 7 PSI 91 octane

Looks like this vette is putting down about 420 rwtq and 200 rwhp @ 2500 rpm, all this on just 91 octane. I seriously doubt a turbo 3.7 on E85 will do that.


It's generally true that an IRS is less preferred on the drag strip than a solid axle. However, I know way, way to many people who have ran 9's and 10's on stock suspension vettes than guys who have ran 10's on stock suspension Mustangs.

Also, the C7 has already ran 9's on stock suspension. I don't believe any Mustang has ever done that.


I also want to address the fact that clamphier likely has one of the fastest 3.7s in the world. No question on that. It's just that given the very limited data and the claims that have been made, it all seems a bit ... fabricated.

For instance, racing a procharged c7 that put down around 590 whp then sharing a drag strip video of two 12 second cars. When this procharged c7 was getting pulled on more and more after every shift... It's just not possible regardless of if it's setup as a roll race car or not. I own a roll race car, the ET is slow but it's trapping 10 MPH faster than most cars with my ET. I could believe a race where the mustang gets the lead but that vette would be covering ground mighty quick, which your video shows otherwise.

I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties, you have to understand looking at this from our perspective. It just seems too good to be true..
All very good info.

Also cyclone heads flow in the 260 range and have the potential to flow more than 300 when ported (correctly also the best way to mess up a head).

Read here....

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/_...inderHeads.pdf

Still good job on that build.
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391 rwhp & 424 rwtq...Mustang Dyno 11.5@122mph
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:57 PM   #420
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Thanks and it will only get better with time. Going for some record breaking stuff this weekend probably

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