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Old 08-16-2014, 01:09 AM   #1086
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Originally Posted by JoeyM91 View Post
If you don't have access to or are not willing to Dyno tune a Forced Induction car, please do not invest in it. For your own sake and your car's.

It's not an easy process to send a canned tune and expect it to just perform out of the box. It doesn't work that way.

@Clamphier, have you folks tested any Turbo-specific mufflers for more backpressure?

Also, I know I'm getting ahead of myself here, but any chance of taking a look at Twin Turbos in the future?
No we haven't tried any went through pypes. Yea not working on one just yet but it is in the future

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Old 08-16-2014, 02:07 AM   #1087
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How in the hell is the stock pump supporting 600HP on e85. With no boost a pump.

**** the 3.7 fuel sytem is better than the stock Coyote fuel sytem on e85

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we are going to leave my BAP out,
If for whatever reason the tuner says we need one, we will hook it back up and run it.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:03 AM   #1088
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@clamphier what is the exact rim+tire combo specification you have? Brand / rim - tire size?

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Old 08-16-2014, 08:31 AM   #1089
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This is on 9.5

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Do y'all just not have the tables to tune the cams? Turbo motors hate overlap, and if you're on the stock cam tables then its plain as day why the power keeps dropping on the top end? (not for your sake per se' but for everyone else's) its not uncommon for pressure in the exhaust manifolds to be 1.5 - 2x what's in the intake manifold, which basically means the overlap is forcing air back out of the cylinders. If y'all simply just tuned the overlap out on the top end i don't see why this kit wouldn't make excellent power at redline instead of peaking below 6...

^^ Just making that statement to retract my earlier posts saying the car had an obvious airflow restriction. The car DOES have an obvious airflow restriction, but its now apparent its not in relation to the mechanics of the kit, but more the tune i'm guessing...
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:26 AM   #1090
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I don't think any tuners mess with cam tuning when tuning the 3.7 cyclone motors NA or FI.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:03 AM   #1091
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I don't think any tuners mess with cam tuning when tuning the 3.7 cyclone motors NA or FI.
That's not true. MPT told me if I wanted to really optimize my manifold swap, playing with cam timing on the dyno would yield better results. He figures it would take about 2 hours remote tuning.

That's why not all tuners are created equally.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:24 AM   #1092
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That's not true. MPT told me if I wanted to really optimize my manifold swap, playing with cam timing on the dyno would yield better results. He figures it would take about 2 hours remote tuning.

That's why not all tuners are created equally.


Well I already knew all tuners aren't created equal since I have Bama, Lund and MPT. I didn't know that MPT messed with the cam tuning though. I really wish that Z would have tried out a MPT tune, I think he could beat his Lund 1/4 record.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:28 AM   #1093
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You realize 90% of tuning these motors is cam timing right? Most tuners want you to datalog intake / exhaust cam advance for a reason, there is a LOT of power to be had (or lost) when tuning the cams (especially FI). You basically have to have a good understanding of how the engine is functioning, but each application, NA, Supercharged, Turbo requires completely different cam applications. There is no "one size fits all" application, the cams need to be optimized for whatever set up you are running.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #1094
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That's what I've been saying the whole time the cam tables are weird. There is a ton of cam table map, plus we haven't had a day where we can do all the cam timing because we can't get on a good dyno. If we had a full day on a dyno thay worked we could see how the cams act and how we could fix them. We got a little better but not the best we could

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Old 08-16-2014, 12:10 PM   #1095
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You realize 90% of tuning these motors is cam timing right? Most tuners want you to datalog intake / exhaust cam advance for a reason, there is a LOT of power to be had (or lost) when tuning the cams (especially FI). You basically have to have a good understanding of how the engine is functioning, but each application, NA, Supercharged, Turbo requires completely different cam applications. There is no "one size fits all" application, the cams need to be optimized for whatever set up you are running.

anyone that knows anything about cars and tuning knows that basic info. Except I believe your wrong on one part, I don't believe for one minute the majority of 3.7 tuners are messing with cam timing to any significant degree, except MPT (confirmed by popeye). That is why there is a such a HUGE gap between my Bama, Lund and MPT tunes. All of which are 93 octane and as aggressive as the tuner would take them. Hell the only real difference I felt between Lund and Bama was the Lund pulled harder on the top end.

MPT pulls harder from start to finish and ****s all over the other two tunes. Now if you don't believe me, you can invest the money yourself into getting a fully bolted on 3.7 (minus heads/cams), and then buying 3 tunes and testing them yourself.

I'd like to hear from the people who have dyno tuned there 3.7 cars and find out to what degree there dyno tuners have been playing with cam timing.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:31 PM   #1096
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anyone that knows anything about cars and tuning knows that basic info. Except I believe your wrong on one part, I don't believe for one minute the majority of 3.7 tuners are messing with cam timing to any significant degree, except MPT (confirmed by popeye). That is why there is a such a HUGE gap between my Bama, Lund and MPT tunes. All of which are 93 octane and as aggressive as the tuner would take them. Hell the only real difference I felt between Lund and Bama was the Lund pulled harder on the top end.

MPT pulls harder from start to finish and ****s all over the other two tunes. Now if you don't believe me, you can invest the money yourself into getting a fully bolted on 3.7 (minus heads/cams), and then buying 3 tunes and testing them yourself.

I'd like to hear from the people who have dyno tuned there 3.7 cars and find out to what degree there dyno tuners have been playing with cam timing.


I've done my fair share of research, and my girlfriends tune is from MPT on her 3.7. The only other thing the tuners could be doing is maybe bumping up the ignition advance and leaning out the AFR a tad... there's not a whole lot else to it. An even easier way than having someone waste a ton of money on tunes is simply having people post datalogs and comparing the cam timing PIDs. Would literally take 15 minutes to sort through all 3 logs, but that's neither here nor there /threadjack.


Also, to reiterate my point, apparently anyone who has tuned a procharger seems to know how to work the cams, since every procharger pulls to redline. Disregard the numbers, since every dyno is different, and the cars are running various levels of mods / boost / etc, and focus more on the powerband. Again, I am NOT here to take anything away from this turbo kit, I am merely making a point.








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Old 08-16-2014, 01:15 PM   #1097
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My steeda tune also plays with the cam timing... It is a great Tune. Pulls hard literally from 1500-7500 RPM. I trapped a 105.69 in over 2k DA. Gus used to tune their, and he wrote me a nasty custom tune over the period of 10 data logs over like 2 years and it pulls to 7500 RPM hard. Amazing customer service, and he really didn't have to do all he did. too bad he doesn't work there anymore

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Old 08-16-2014, 01:16 PM   #1098
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I've done my fair share of research, and my girlfriends tune is from MPT on her 3.7. The only other thing the tuners could be doing is maybe bumping up the ignition advance and leaning out the AFR a tad... there's not a whole lot else to it. An even easier way than having someone waste a ton of money on tunes is simply having people post datalogs and comparing the cam timing PIDs. Would literally take 15 minutes to sort through all 3 logs, but that's neither here nor there /threadjack.


Also, to reiterate my point, apparently anyone who has tuned a procharger seems to know how to work the cams, since every procharger pulls to redline. Disregard the numbers, since every dyno is different, and the cars are running various levels of mods / boost / etc, and focus more on the powerband. Again, I am NOT here to take anything away from this turbo kit, I am merely making a point.
Oh I agree with you, that is why earlier on in this thread I asked him if anyone had messed with the cam timing to maybe help with spool up of the turbo and airflow on the top end..
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:18 PM   #1099
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My steeda tune also plays with the cam timing... It is a great Tune. Pulls hard literally from 1500-7500 RPM. I trapped a 105.69 in over 2k DA. Gus used to tune their, and he wrote me a nasty custom tune over the period of 10 data logs over like 2 years and it pulls to 7500 RPM hard. Amazing customer service, and he really didn't have to do all he did. too bad he doesn't work there anymore

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Let's see the dyno sheet. I have yet to see a NA 3.7 make power to 7,500

Not saying it's not, just have not seen it

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Old 08-16-2014, 01:20 PM   #1100
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My steeda tune also plays with the cam timing... It is a great Tune. Pulls hard literally from 1500-7500 RPM. I trapped a 105.69 in over 2k DA. Gus used to tune their, and he wrote me a nasty custom tune over the period of 10 data logs over like 2 years and it pulls to 7500 RPM hard. Amazing customer service, and he really didn't have to do all he did. too bad he doesn't work there anymore

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I was going give Steeda a try also to compare all my other tunes to, but literally the week I was going to give Steeda a call Gus had left.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:24 PM   #1101
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Let's see the dyno sheet. I have yet to see a NA 3.7 make power to 7,500

Not saying it's not, just have not seen it

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How about the times?

I ran the car shifting @ 6500 and 7500 RPM and gained over 1.5 mph in trap speed, consecutively. Shifting @6500 Rpm yielded me trap speeds similar to other 3.7s in the 103.5-104 range.

Shifting @7500 gave Me traps over 105.5 constantly

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Old 08-16-2014, 01:32 PM   #1102
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That shows something, I'm just curious on seeing it making power that high vs dropping

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Old 08-16-2014, 02:04 PM   #1103
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One part of it is because the procharger is spinning off the motor so it's going as high as it goes..... or that's what I'm assuming. Like I said we haven't messed with any tuning up top we haven't got to have a full tuning day.

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Old 08-16-2014, 02:41 PM   #1104
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Let's see the dyno sheet. I have yet to see a NA 3.7 make power to 7,500

Not saying it's not, just have not seen it

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Here is one right here. The graph isn't in standard form. Time is on bottom and RPM is on the side. This graph is with a bad exhaust leak and no datalogs. You see how this pulls right to 7500 and has no drop to it at all. I hope to have this car on the rollers again and I expect it to be damn near 290-295 and that is through the stock cats!
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:52 PM   #1105
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How about the times?

I ran the car shifting @ 6500 and 7500 RPM and gained over 1.5 mph in trap speed, consecutively. Shifting @6500 Rpm yielded me trap speeds similar to other 3.7s in the 103.5-104 range.

Shifting @7500 gave Me traps over 105.5 constantly
I also have a Steeda tune, I also trap 105 MPH in the 1/4 and I also shift at 7200 - 7500 rpm.

I can tell that the power stops building around 6800 RPM. However, the car still pulls very well and doesn't really seem to fall off until around 7300 rpm.

I'm sure with a full exhaust and revised tune it would pull even better up top.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #1106
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I also have a Steeda tune, I also trap 105 MPH in the 1/4 and I also shift at 7200 - 7500 rpm.

I can tell that the power stops building around 6800 RPM. However, the car still pulls very well and doesn't really seem to fall off until around 7300 rpm.

I'm sure with a full exhaust and revised tune it would pull even better up top.


Yea pretty much exactly how my car is. who tuned your car from steeda?

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Old 08-16-2014, 03:44 PM   #1107
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Yea pretty much exactly how my car is. who tuned your car from steeda?

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I was in contact with Matt, I don't believe he is the tuner. So, I'm not entirely sure. It took them several tries to get it right. So far, it's been a great tune.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:26 PM   #1108
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I believe its that the power more flatlines instead of raising / dropping, and gives you a better fallback point for each shift.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:30 PM   #1109
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One part of it is because the procharger is spinning off the motor so it's going as high as it goes..... or that's what I'm assuming. Like I said we haven't messed with any tuning up top we haven't got to have a full tuning day.

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Its because the procharger isn't seeing the same airflow restriction since there's no excessive back pressure in the exhaust manifolds like a turbo. Another thing we could do is I could datalog Sean's car with your old procharger and measure his G/s vs yours at the MAF. That way you could not only compare airflow, but power levels at that airflow.


This would basically allow you to see if you are:
1. Flowing more air and making more power (proving turbos are better)
2. Flowing the same air and making the same power (its a wash)
3. Flowing the same (or more) air and making less power (I'm right and you have an airflow restriction somewhere)
4. Flowing less air and making more power (without a generous amount of ignition advance and cam timing I don't see this happening, but who knows.)


Those are pretty much the possible outcomes and it would be really cool to compare the numbers, because then you could definitively say "at X psi our kit is '...' better than a procharger." I love poking through data like that and would be more than happy to do so.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:40 PM   #1110
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Numbers don't lie.

That is a fair agreement and it is a win win for everyone. It could even help you Connor.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:07 PM   #1111
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I've been trying to find that we were talking with sean about it just need to get together

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---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Then do his dyno comparison to our 9.5 because his should be at like 8.9 I think

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Old 08-16-2014, 06:13 PM   #1112
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It would be nice to see the exhaust properly hooked up and then run the tuning cycle and see what the numbers shake out as.

There are a majority of owners who won't consider a non exhausted kit.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:18 PM   #1113
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I've said this a thousand times the kit is coming with an exhaust only me and Hasan do not have it because we don't care.

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Old 08-17-2014, 12:24 AM   #1114
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It would be nice to see the exhaust properly hooked up and then run the tuning cycle and see what the numbers shake out as.

There are a majority of owners who won't consider a non exhausted kit.
You can always have custom exhaust made. It's really not THAT expensive.

Personally, I would do just that because exhaust and back pressure on a turbo car is a bit of a different animal than naturally aspirated cars.
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:42 AM   #1115
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We put the vband on the downpipe if he decides he wants exhaust and we will send him the mid piece that we make. But he says he loves how it sounds for now

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Old 08-17-2014, 09:37 AM   #1116
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We put the vband on the downpipe if he decides he wants exhaust and we will send him the mid piece that we make. But he says he loves how it sounds for now

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Fair enough.

Get to making that exhaust mid piece that connects to the stock exhaust, November is fast approaching and I don't want an open exhaust.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:11 AM   #1117
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We already have it made now it's going out in our next kit we are shipping out

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Old 08-17-2014, 11:46 AM   #1118
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Who is the next lucky recipient of this turbo kit you have just put together?

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Old 08-17-2014, 02:37 PM   #1119
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Some guy from Louisiana

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Old 08-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #1120
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Some guy from Louisiana

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Bigshow14? Hah, no I think if it were someone on ME we would have heard by now.

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