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Old 02-20-2014, 03:45 PM   #36
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I'm not bashing shorties... I just figured, since there is not difference between LTs and shorties, sound is key, and the LTs have way more sound... It was just a question, bro, not bashing... Maybe someone knows something about them I don't...
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:46 PM   #37
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*not a difference in gains, I meant to say.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:58 PM   #38
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*not a difference in gains, I meant to say.
It's my understanding that long tube headers will provide higher performance gains over short tube headers. Certainly, I am NOT saying short tube headers are not good, its just my understanding they don't provide as high performance gains as long tube headers. How much of a difference in performance gains does the long tubes provide over shortly headers headers? I have no clue.

However with that said both long tubes and short tube headers are very beneficial for increasing power games
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:50 PM   #39
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Uh, what?

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They seem to make a much better sound. Since both LT & Shorties make no real performance gain in a NA 3.7, you might as well go for sound.
Uh, wrong. Well, the second half is.

They make the Go Pedal a lot lighter. With a tune and CAI, the uninitiated could get into real trouble. There are before/after dyno sheets floating around the forums that depict a 25-50ftlb increase in rwtq in the 2,500-4,000rpm range. I haven't put Delores on the dyno, but my butt dyno (recently calibrated) has registered a similar boost.

Traffic is kinda fun right now.

Yes, the shorties have given the catback Streets even more rumble. Rumor has it that the LT's increase rasp on the V6, although they actually provide increased rwhp at peak.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:35 PM   #40
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It creates the rumble! V8 like, not the same just kind of like it. Let me be clear our v6 will never sound like a v8. An X-pipe is more for performance but usually gives more Rasp than an H-pipe which usually makes things more deep sounding. The reason my H pipe looks the way it does ( pic on 1st page) is because it equalizes the pressure better than a straight across H-pipe or at least thats what my exhaust guy told me and I can hear that. There is no popping or harshness in my exhaust. You must realize tho that some of the deep sound in my exhaust comes from the shorty headers. Borla axle-backs give a great sound and there is no drone. I could probably delete the resonators and there still wouldn't be drone.

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Old 02-20-2014, 07:41 PM   #41
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Also put it like this. Shorty headers are for low to mid rpm torque.

Long tubes are for high rpm horsepower.

Our engines are 280-285 torque at the crank while 305 hp. Generally the hp should be lower and torque higher. We need the torque down low where a tune just can't provide sometimes. The LT give rasp but if you like the snarl, you'll love it. Pair it with straight through mufflers and you're set.

Shorties just refine the tone to a more crisp and smooth flow of the exhaust. If you want tame and semi aggressive, then these are what you go for.

I don't drive my car near redline much. Hell I barely ever touch 4k with the tunes I run. I live in the city too so cursing is just at 2k rpm. I would make more use of my power with shorties. It's personal preference but 3 axlebacks and much money later, I've learned to research your research before buying.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:49 AM   #42
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It's personal preference but 3 axlebacks and much money later, I've learned to research your research before buying.
Researching reasearch!? Madness.

I honestly just never looked into shorties after I read about low end and high end power/torque being so minor between the two, it makes now real dyno differences... Plus I'm not a personal fan of the sound. Doesn't sound bad, just prefer the other.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:47 AM   #43
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So far no luck finding the right exhaust setup. The killer is it has to be legal. I thought I heard LT's are considered off-road, what about shortys? I'm still looking at different mid pipes, but if shortys will help get the tone I'm looking for I may go that route.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:50 AM   #44
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So far no luck finding the right exhaust setup. The killer is it has to be legal. I thought I heard LT's are considered off-road, what about shortys? I'm still looking at different mid pipes, but if shortys will help get the tone I'm looking for I may go that route.
Long tubes are not off road. Off road x pipe is off road.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:53 AM   #45
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My setup is legal and technically there are no header or mid-pipes that are CARB approved that I know of. You shouldn't have a problem passing a emissions inspection as long as you keep cats on the car and go with shorty headers. It's illegal to remove the cats all together and you def. can't sell the car like that. Huge fine!
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:43 PM   #46
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That's all?! My local shop wanted $300 just to install my FRRP axle-backs!.
Hi which Ford Racing axle backs do you have? The Sports (Borla Stingers S-type) or the Touring (Borla Touring)?

The 49 state issue could be that Kali requires the stock cats be installed in the stock location (or so a Kali person told me yesterday that had short headers on a Camaro)

The Ford Touring are 50 state and the Ford SPorts are 49 state. I have the sports they sound great.

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Old 02-21-2014, 06:42 PM   #47
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Long tubes are not off road. Off road x pipe is off road.
On AM it says "intended for of road use only". So I figured they were considered "off road". Please correct me if I'm worng, as I'm still pretty new to this.
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Hi which Ford Racing axle backs do you have? The Sports (Borla Stingers S-type) or the Touring (Borla Touring)?

The 49 state issue could be that Kali requires the stock cats be installed in the stock location (or so a Kali person told me yesterday that had short headers on a Camaro)

The Ford Touring are 50 state and the Ford SPorts are 49 state. I have the sports they sound great.
Art
I have the Sports. Loved em' for the first 2 weeks, then they seemed to get really tame. I still love the deeper tone they give off, just wish they projected a little more. Also, I should of mentioned this earlier but I reside in Missouri. So emissions are probably more lenient then Cali.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:50 PM   #48
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On AM it says "intended for of road use only". So I figured they were considered "off road". Please correct me if I'm worng, as I'm still pretty new to this.

I have the Sports. Loved em' for the first 2 weeks, then they seemed to get really tame. I still love the deeper tone they give off, just wish they projected a little more. Also, I should of mentioned this earlier but I reside in Missouri. So emissions are probably more lenient then Cali.
If you keep CATS of any kind, and the maker says 49 state legal you should be ok on the legal issue you asked about.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:46 PM   #49
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Thumbs up Is this your setup your asking about?

[QUOTE=ToP;1951067]So I have been trying to do some research on the BBK Catted X-pipe, but unfortunately I can't find much info on it. Has anyone had any experience with this setup? I'm looking to add more of a growl to go with my FRRP, but am hesitant to drop that much money on something without getting others advice first. I also realize that taking off the stock cats are a big no-no, but are the cats that come with the BBK pipe still legal? BBK's website is alittle fuzzy, claiming that "THE CONVERTERS ON THESE PIPES ARE 49 STATE LEGAL - BUT NOT LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA AS OF JAN 1st 2010".

I think I have the setup your asking about. 2013 V6, BBK Ceramic Headers(Shorties), BBK Catted Exhaust and the Ford Racing Sport Axle-Back Exhaust (Illegal in CA.)

Growls grate, very little noise if out cruising. You can talk and not have that loud humming noise.

If your not moving to California, you shouldn't have a problem. Not sure on where you live on the smog requirements if you have them.

Hope this answers your questions.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:27 AM   #50
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Do you have a sound clip NewMstang? I'm not sure if this has been done, but we should create a thread with just sound clips of exhaust systems. Basically what mods you have and the system, then a video clip. I think it would make researching a lot easier.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:37 AM   #51
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Do you have a sound clip NewMstang? I'm not sure if this has been done, but we should create a thread with just sound clips of exhaust systems. Basically what mods you have and the system, then a video clip. I think it would make researching a lot easier.
That is actually a really good idea... That'd probably kill about eighty percent of exhaust set up questions. Where would it be posted though? Model specific to narrow it down, or in the general categories?
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:13 AM   #52
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Early on AJ mentioned a GT H pipe. I did that. Great sound on start up. Reving it sound mran an burley start driving and st 3k rpm you sound like a single exhausted race truck...you know the dude in Tacomas that get there little 4x4 lifted and done up to look like baja racers?....ya, no good. Looking to put back the factory hybrid pipe along with the H to see what that dounds like...

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Old 02-22-2014, 11:14 AM   #53
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That is actually a really good idea... That'd probably kill about eighty percent of exhaust set up questions. Where would it be posted though? Model specific to narrow it down, or in the general categories?
Ive seen one online...ill look through my bookmarks to see....
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:05 PM   #54
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I think I have the setup your asking about. 2013 V6, BBK Ceramic Headers(Shorties), BBK Catted Exhaust and the Ford Racing Sport Axle-Back Exhaust (Illegal in CA.)



Growls grate, very little noise if out cruising. You can talk and not have that loud humming noise.



If your not moving to California, you shouldn't have a problem. Not sure on where you live on the smog requirements if you have them.



Hope this answers your questions.

Thanks for the response, this is precisely what I was looking for. Do you happen to have any sound clips/videos you can share? So far I'm sold on the shorty headers, but worried about the x pipe being too high pitch or "ricer".
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:16 PM   #55
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Look up long tubes with resonators before you buy.

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Old 02-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #56
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ToP...here you go...
http://v6mustangperformance.com/prod...p-compilation/

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Old 02-22-2014, 01:01 PM   #57
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Lets talk about the loss of low end that Long tubes cause. In fact they can make low idle surges and other low end issues, including stall outs. Some tunes will compensate for that by cranking the idle up to 900rpm from the ~633ish norm.

Long tubes are for strip cars, or street/strip cars that see the strip lots of times a month. The huge HPR gains are at high RPMs on these 3.7 revvers, lots of peak gains on long tube headers, BUT at Peak; not Twin Peaks like the girls in red halter tie tops and khaki shorts.

Short tubes are for street cars, and street cars that only occasionally see the strip as their major objective. HPR and TRQ gains are not the peek numbers at high RPM, instead they push up the HPR/TRQ curve at the low/mid end, which is what street V6 cars need. Nice low end growl enhancement also.

Also, if you really want to know what an exaust sounds like, videos won't tell you. I have done extreme sports videos for 20 years and the camcorders don't pick up the sound like in real life. Thundering Huge SuperSonic Rockets in person thumping the shock wave into your chest do not sound the same, even on Discovery TV when Keri Byron is filming them; they have less bass and more whoosh. [Google Discovery LDRS 2011]

SO visit car shows and meets to hear in person how the exhausts sounds, that is what I ended up doing. My exhaust sounds like crap on cameras but in person has had GT owners asking how to make their car sound like mine while cruising in the lot.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:21 PM   #58
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I don't know, I didn't notice a bit of low end loss of power or stalling... Maybe small numbers on the dyno, but nothing you'd notice by feel. And you're referring to street racing or something?

However, I do agree with hearing it in person for the thread author. Videos do absolutely no justice for loud exhausts.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:32 PM   #59
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Do you have a sound clip NewMstang? I'm not sure if this has been done, but we should create a thread with just sound clips of exhaust systems. Basically what mods you have and the system, then a video clip. I think it would make researching a lot easier.
Sorry no sound clip. There are tons of clips in You Tube. Look for a sound clip with the Ford Axlebacks and the BBK X pipe. Then the Headers will give you more of a deeper sound. They hadn't released the BBK Shorties, so I had the Catted X-Pipe and Ford Axlebacks. Sound just purred.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ToP View Post
So I have been trying to do some research on the BBK Catted X-pipe, but unfortunately I can't find much info on it. Has anyone had any experience with this setup? I'm looking to add more of a growl to go with my FRRP, but am hesitant to drop that much money on something without getting others advice first. I also realize that taking off the stock cats are a big no-no, but are the cats that come with the BBK pipe still legal? BBK's website is alittle fuzzy, claiming that "THE CONVERTERS ON THESE PIPES ARE 49 STATE LEGAL - BUT NOT LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA AS OF JAN 1st 2010".

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.bbkperformance.com/products/2011-14-mustang-v6-short-mid-x-pipe-with-converters.html?car_motor_key[]=1700&car_motor_key[]=1717
You didn't mention where you live. Find out if there is a Mustang Club in your area. One of their members might be running the same setup your interested in.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:04 PM   #61
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Lets talk about the loss of low end that Long tubes cause. In fact they can make low idle surges and other low end issues, including stall outs. Some tunes will compensate for that by cranking the idle up to 900rpm from the ~633ish norm.

Long tubes are for strip cars, or street/strip cars that see the strip lots of times a month. The huge HPR gains are at high RPMs on these 3.7 revvers, lots of peak gains on long tube headers, BUT at Peak; not Twin Peaks like the girls in red halter tie tops and khaki shorts.

Short tubes are for street cars, and street cars that only occasionally see the strip as their major objective. HPR and TRQ gains are not the peek numbers at high RPM, instead they push up the HPR/TRQ curve at the low/mid end, which is what street V6 cars need. Nice low end growl enhancement also.

Also, if you really want to know what an exaust sounds like, videos won't tell you. I have done extreme sports videos for 20 years and the camcorders don't pick up the sound like in real life. Thundering Huge SuperSonic Rockets in person thumping the shock wave into your chest do not sound the same, even on Discovery TV when Keri Byron is filming them; they have less bass and more whoosh. [Google Discovery LDRS 2011]

SO visit car shows and meets to hear in person how the exhausts sounds, that is what I ended up doing. My exhaust sounds like crap on cameras but in person has had GT owners asking how to make their car sound like mine while cruising in the lot.
I have long tube headers and never really noticed any low end loss. I do have some occasional idle surges when the car is in park and idling however never has it stalled. No idle surges when there is any load on the exhaust. If someone does get long tubes just tell the tuning company to turn your idle up too 800 or 900 and issue solved. I love the tone in my long tubes and x pipe. My car is not a strip car and used as a semi DD. I love the sound and power the long tubes gave me. With my other mods and tune I have power down low , mid and high range. I live in a rural area so majority of my driving is highway and speeds in excess of 65 mph plus. I don't see many traffic lights in my area so I'm not concerned about the most power from a dig, although I haven't noticed a loss of low end.

The low end power is really a easy fix. Just cheat the system and add 3:73 or 4:10 gears and low end issues are no more. I would much rather have my power mid to high because that's where I spend 99% of my driving time. Perhaps if someone drives in a urban environment that would be different but love my long tubes.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:33 PM   #62
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I have long tube headers and never really noticed any low end loss. I do have some occasional idle surges when the car is in park and idling however never has it stalled. No idle surges when there is any load on the exhaust. If someone does get long tubes just tell the tuning company to turn your idle up too 800 or 900 and issue solved. I love the tone in my long tubes and x pipe. My car is not a strip car and used as a semi DD. I love the sound and power the long tubes gave me. With my other mods and tune I have power down low , mid and high range. I live in a rural area so majority of my driving is highway and speeds in excess of 65 mph plus. I don't see many traffic lights in my area so I'm not concerned about the most power from a dig, although I haven't noticed a loss of low end.

The low end power is really a easy fix. Just cheat the system and add 3:73 or 4:10 gears and low end issues are no more. I would much rather have my power mid to high because that's where I spend 99% of my driving time. Perhaps if someone drives in a urban environment that would be different but love my long tubes.
+1
I agree with this whole heartedly. I'm just waiting on my 3.73 gears to get in, bought them for other reasons, though. Not because of any power loss at low RPMs.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:46 PM   #63
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I have long tube headers and never really noticed any low end loss. I do have some occasional idle surges when the car is in park and idling however never has it stalled. No idle surges when there is any load on the exhaust. If someone does get long tubes just tell the tuning company to turn your idle up too 800 or 900 and issue solved. I love the tone in my long tubes and x pipe. My car is not a strip car and used as a semi DD. I love the sound and power the long tubes gave me. With my other mods and tune I have power down low , mid and high range. I live in a rural area so majority of my driving is highway and speeds in excess of 65 mph plus. I don't see many traffic lights in my area so I'm not concerned about the most power from a dig, although I haven't noticed a loss of low end.

The low end power is really a easy fix. Just cheat the system and add 3:73 or 4:10 gears and low end issues are no more. I would much rather have my power mid to high because that's where I spend 99% of my driving time. Perhaps if someone drives in a urban environment that would be different but love my long tubes.
Hi Kona, I totally agree with everything you have here, it is 100% correct. But many Daily drivers cannot have the issues of 3.73-4.10 and 900 rpm idles that kind of car setup has. Heck my friend in the late 70s finally had to give up the idea that 4.56 gears on his 396 hemi so doing to him driving to work everyday.

Now today with out newer tech its not that bad, and folks like you can drive it everyday. But others may not be able to. Idle surges and stalls happen, unless as you point out jackin' the idle up. Also Dyno pulls show some minor low end loss.

Dyno pulls show low end curve pushups on short headers. So the choice should be what the user wants. You like what you want and that's super Kewl. But it may not work for others. Again, my post was to point out to folks the choices are very open in today's aftermarket, just make sure you get what you want.

"I'm not bashing Long Tubes", just pointing out choices.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:23 PM   #64
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Hi Kona, I totally agree with everything you have here, it is 100% correct. But many Daily drivers cannot have the issues of 3.73-4.10 and 900 rpm idles that kind of car setup has. Heck my friend in the late 70s finally had to give up the idea that 4.56 gears on his 396 hemi so doing to him driving to work everyday.

Now today with out newer tech its not that bad, and folks like you can drive it everyday. But others may not be able to. Idle surges and stalls happen, unless as you point out jackin' the idle up. Also Dyno pulls show some minor low end loss.

Dyno pulls show low end curve pushups on short headers. So the choice should be what the user wants. You like what you want and that's super Kewl. But it may not work for others. Again, my post was to point out to folks the choices are very open in today's aftermarket, just make sure you get what you want.

"I'm not bashing Long Tubes", just pointing out choices.
You may be right. 900 idle setting may be a bit high. Actually, I have seen some posts of other members getting some surge issues even with BBK shorties. I'm starting to think its a BBK thing. Lol. It seems that the folks who get shorty headers do enjoy the power and sound they make. I know when I got my long tube headers , shorty headers weren't even available as an option for the 3.7.

One may get some better lower end grunt with shorties compared to long tubes. I personally spend my time driving in the 2200 rpm range on the highway so I really want mid to high power gains the most. My down low dig feels great from off the line and flooring it.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:32 PM   #65
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Hi Kona, I totally agree with everything you have here, it is 100% correct. But many Daily drivers cannot have the issues of 3.73-4.10 and 900 rpm idles that kind of car setup has. Heck my friend in the late 70s finally had to give up the idea that 4.56 gears on his 396 hemi so doing to him driving to work everyday.

Now today with out newer tech its not that bad, and folks like you can drive it everyday. But others may not be able to. Idle surges and stalls happen, unless as you point out jackin' the idle up. Also Dyno pulls show some minor low end loss.

Dyno pulls show low end curve pushups on short headers. So the choice should be what the user wants. You like what you want and that's super Kewl. But it may not work for others. Again, my post was to point out to folks the choices are very open in today's aftermarket, just make sure you get what you want.

"I'm not bashing Long Tubes", just pointing out choices.
You may be right. 900 idle setting may be a bit high. Actually, I have seen some posts of other members getting some surge issues even with BBK shorties. I'm starting to think its a BBK thing. Lol. It seems that the folks who get shorty headers do enjoy the power and sound they make. I know when I got my long tube headers , shorty headers weren't even available as an option for the 3.7.

One may get some better lower end grunt with shorties compared to long tubes. I personally spend my time driving in the 2200 rpm range on the highway so I really want mid to high power gains the most. My down low dig feels great from off the line and flooring it.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:33 PM   #66
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What the heck is with this double listing stuff. Grrrr. I swear guys, I'm not doing it on purpose.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:39 PM   #67
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What the heck is with this double listing stuff. Grrrr. I swear guys, I'm not doing it on purpose.
I think it's happening all over the site...
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:53 PM   #68
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No you don't need to change the headers to install a custom H-pipe that the exhaust shop fabricates for you. All your changing is the x-pipe portion of the mid-pipe unless you want to change the whole thing. There are no aftermarket options to do this. The only way is to fabricate one. Some have tried using the GT H-pipe with less than desirable results. Here is a quick bad video of a cold start.

http://youtu.be/sD1LmRfTnNc

Do you have more videos. I like your setup. If so What's your YouTube channel name
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:32 PM   #69
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Do you have more videos. I like your setup. If so What's your YouTube channel name

Nah I don't really have a channel. Working on getting better quality videos but my wife took the good camera with her on a trip out of the country so all I have is crappy ones for now but here is another.

http://youtu.be/C8QqH8SBET4
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:42 PM   #70
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Nah I don't really have a channel. Working on getting better quality videos but my wife took the good camera with her on a trip out of the country so all I have is crappy ones for now but here is another.

http://youtu.be/C8QqH8SBET4

What's your channel tho so I can link your video. Can't do it like this on my phone.
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