Why is ford trying to get rid of v6? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 07-18-2014, 07:00 AM   #1
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Why is ford trying to get rid of v6?

Ok so the new specs came out for the ecoboost at 310 hp and 320 to torque and v6 is 300 hp and 280 torque? I'm not much of an expert when it comes to the new engine, but they stated those numbers for 93 octane fuel. Why is ford deliberately and precisely trying to get rid of the v6? I still think, though, that it'll outsell the ecoboost. What do you guys think?


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Old 07-18-2014, 07:18 AM   #2
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There should be a limit to how many threads a person can start.. damn dude. But their pushing the 4cyl because it appeals more to the international market. Fuel economy is starting to become priority #1 when it comes to purchasing a new car. I think once people realize how powerful/ economic the 4cyl is the 6 will start to phase out. Although I think ford will always produce the 6 cyl it wont be as popular as the 4. Personally I don't care either way because when the time comes to trade in my 3.7l, its all v8's for me from then on.
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Old 07-18-2014, 07:37 AM   #3
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There are still a lot of people that will take a V6 over a 4 cylinder

The V6 will be with the Mustang for a long time to come. It's not like they will only use it for a Mustang but for other cars in the line as well as trucks.
They keep talking about a SVT performance model coming out in 2016 and I'm guessing it will be a twin or single TURBO V6 engine powered Mustang that will probably push about 425 HP or more.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:34 AM   #4
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OP is right, they are trying to squeeze it's numbers down. A deciding factor on my purchase of a 2014 Coupe was the fact that there was no Performance Pack offered on the 2015 V6, only the Ecoboost 4. That and the fact that I really didn't want to buy the first year production.

The auto manufacturers are under tremendous pressure to get the mpg up across the board. The more gas sippers they sell, gives them breathing room on the higher performance models, trucks, larger cars. etc.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:16 PM   #5
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I read that the v6 was only available in the 2015 in North America. Europe and everywhere else will get the EB4 and the 5.0 only. No V6 for them.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:54 PM   #6
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I can see the numbers on the eco being better because it has a turbo.. slap a turbo on the v6..

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Old 07-18-2014, 03:09 PM   #7
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And if you want a Premium it is the 4 or the V8, no V6 even in the states from what I read.
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:16 PM   #8
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It's silly and inefficient to offer 4 different engines in a car with lower production numbers. I love my V6 but I would've bought this Turbo 4 if it was available. I don't care whats under the hood, I like the Mustang because it's a RWD coupe.
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:33 PM   #9
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There should be a limit to how many threads a person can start.. damn dude. But their pushing the 4cyl because it appeals more to the international market. Fuel economy is starting to become priority #1 when it comes to purchasing a new car. I think once people realize how powerful/ economic the 4cyl is the 6 will start to phase out. Although I think ford will always produce the 6 cyl it wont be as popular as the 4. Personally I don't care either way because when the time comes to trade in my 3.7l, its all v8's for me from then on.
He must be collecting welfare, to have the time to sit around all day and post threads!
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:45 PM   #10
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He must be collecting welfare, to have the time to sit around all day and post threads!

An engineer on welfare? Mmm... I think not.


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Old 07-18-2014, 05:00 PM   #11
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With the 3.5 eco currently available and used in the Taurus and f-150, I'm not sure the 3.7 has a bright future in the ford family. But it really makes no sense to kill a pretty new motor, but that being said something drastic has to change with the 3.7 (maybe ecoboost) because the 300hp that these great motors have already seem to be getting left behind spec wise when compared to the new eco 4 and the much more powerful 3.5 eco.

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Old 07-18-2014, 05:04 PM   #12
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He must be collecting welfare, to have the time to sit around all day and post threads!
Or in Ina rush to get to 50 posts for all the discounts :p
Lolol jk jk

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Old 07-18-2014, 05:26 PM   #13
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As others have said it doesn't make sense to offer 3-4 different engines in a lower production car. The V8 is for ford to shine on performance while the other more 'economical' option is meant to provide a good balance of power and fuel economy' which is probable why there making the transition to the I4 turbo. I love my V6 but honestly I would take the turbo 4 any day if I knew I could get it for the price I paid for my V6. Same power, probable better fuel economy, easier to get more power out of. I don't see why everyone things the move from the V6 to the turbo 4 is so bad. I mean I realize most of us in this section have V6's and like our cars but lets be realistic, put both cars in front of you and if you weigh the options of the 2, I cant think of any reason to get the V6.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:56 PM   #14
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It's all about the EPA average. If you want the V8 to be in the Mustang you have to sell as many 4 poppers as possible. The V6 won't get the average that they need. It's not about what engine is preferred or what's better. It's about keeping the V8 alive. Aluminum body panels would help a great deal but, they are difficult to produce and are very expensive. Tooling has to be designed for that specific metal and can not be shared. Also body shape and design will be specific to the type of metal. Aluminum will be more flat, shallow, and less curves. It's very difficult to draw automotive aluminum. It can not be welded either. The epoxy Mustang awaits!
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:01 PM   #15
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It's all about the EPA average. If you want the V8 to be in the Mustang you have to sell as many 4 poppers as possible. The V6 won't get the average that they need. It's not about what engine is preferred or what's better. It's about keeping the V8 alive. Aluminum body panels would help a great deal but, they are difficult to produce and are very expensive. Tooling has to be designed for that specific metal and can not be shared. Also body shape and design will be specific to the type of metal. Aluminum will be more flat, shallow, and less curves. It's very difficult to draw automotive aluminum. It can not be welded either. The epoxy Mustang awaits!
Ahhh, maybe I'm not understanding your last point about aluminium can't be welded?(welder 19 years)

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---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

You can weld it and spot weld it. Sheet metal aluminium can be formed just like C.R.S ( cold rolled steel) it just takes more care because its a softer metal than steel and can more easily damaged during fabrication. But you are right it would be more costly!
http://m.cartalk.com/blogs/jim-motav...ight-wars-heat



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Old 07-19-2014, 12:59 AM   #16
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I don't think Ford's trying to get rid of the V6. I think what they're trying to do is appeal to their European consumers. What do they favor over there? Turbo 4 cylinder or high hp 8+ cylinder cars. Either way, I've got my 3.7L. And if/when I trade it in, it'll be for a V8.

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Old 07-19-2014, 05:50 AM   #17
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I think that once the eco 4 comes out and if its a hit with the general public, here and over seas, the 3.7 specs in its current state, and being out powered by its little brother with better fuel mileage won't have a long and bright future. In the end what sells is what will stay and what doesn't might just go way of the dinosaur. I hope I'm wrong because I love my 3.7.

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Old 07-19-2014, 08:46 PM   #18
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:27 PM   #19
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In some places in Europe taxes and registration are based on the size of the engine (I remember when we were in London discussing it with some of the people there). So a smaller displacement engine makes more sense there - so the ecoboost gets the same power as the V6 but with smaller displacement, and reduced taxes/registration fees over the bigger V6.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:24 PM   #20
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OK. Weld automotive aluminum. No sir. I was in charge of tooling for Ford stamping aluminum hoods and if you would like to show us how, we would really appreciate it. The reps from Alcoa would also be very appreciative. There is not one weld on any Crown Vic or Grand Marq hood in existence. Neither the Mustang hood. The AUDI is all aluminum and zero welds. FYI Automotive aluminum is unique. Like rivets in an airframe. Never a weld. Read up on it. Not trying to beat anyone up, just sharing the facts.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:38 PM   #21
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OK. Weld automotive aluminum. No sir. I was in charge of tooling for Ford stamping aluminum hoods and if you would like to show us how, we would really appreciate it. The reps from Alcoa would also be very appreciative. There is not one weld on any Crown Vic or Grand Marq hood in existence. Neither the Mustang hood. The AUDI is all aluminum and zero welds. FYI Automotive aluminum is unique. Like rivets in an airframe. Never a weld. Read up on it. Not trying to beat anyone up, just sharing the facts.
Can you specify what grade is automotive aluminium? I personally weld 5052 sheet metal from .030 to .250. We also spot weld 5052 aluminium on a regular basis.. I do not work in the automotive industry but do work in the sheet metal industry and aluminium is very weldable.. Not trying to beat anyone up either just curious as to why some grades would not be used in the auto industry. I mean t 6061 aluminium is aircraft grade aluminium and is highly weldable, just curious as to why something like that wouldn't be used in the auto industry? There are many different grades of aluminium.


At the very least 5052 sheet would be a great candidate for panels welded or not to reduce weight, but like I said earlier it would be more costly. Welding and spot welding aluminium is not a trade secret as any experienced welder will tell you. I'm not a tool and die maker but I am a certified C.W.B tig welder. Just saying.

Here is a link that will explain how 80% of all aluminium grades are weldable and how the only 2 grades that are not are aerospace grade aluminium.

http://www.thefabricator.com/article...luminum-alloys


I also invite you to "read up" on this as G.M currently uses this technology to spot welding aluminium on some of their current cars and plans on aggressively pursuing it. It has ALWAYS been possible to spot weld/weld most any grade of aluminium, it was just not robust enough to use in a quick moving assembly line. You can't exactly stop a multi million dollar assembly line every 10-15 minutes to check and clean the tips, doesn't make economic sense, and G.M has engineered a way to make that happen. We have been spot welding aluminium since I could remember, and G.M uses the exact same principal but with their ringed electrode tips, they haven't re invented the wheel, just found a way to make it practical in mass production. In an era where efficiency and mpg are king in the auto world, light weight aluminium is the future and will make its way into our cars more and more each year. High end manufacturers like lambo and ferrari have been using welded aluminium chassis for years amongst other light weight very strong materials, its now trickling down to the masses as weight becomes a serious disadvantage to the all mighty mpg. Again this isn't a schooling just sharing experience and facts.

http://media.gm.ca/media/us/en/gm/ne...4_welding.html

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Old 07-21-2014, 07:35 AM   #22
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This thread went south.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:37 AM   #23
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This thread went south.
Lol, I'm sorry to tread jack, just had to clarify some facts. I'm back on topic.

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Old 07-21-2014, 08:53 AM   #24
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I personally think the ecoboost is going to be a hoot. Its going to hammer quite a few cars on the track and in a straight line that car and driver hold up on a pedestal. I'm just disappointed that Ford is quickly abandoning a very reliable and economical na powerplant. Turbos come at a higher initial cost and god forbid repairs after warranty.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:08 AM   #25
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I personally think the.ecoboost is going to be hoot. Its going to hammer quite a few cars on the track and in a straight line that car and and driver hold up on a pedestal. I'm just disappointed that Ford is quickly abandoning a very reliable and economical na powerplant. Turbos come at a higher initial cost and god forbid repairs after warranty.
+1. My wife's fusion eco boost is quite powerful for a 1.5 also. I was watching the new eco 4 on a test run at the track and it looks very impressive! But what was even more surprising was how good it sounded in the cabin. The eco mustang is going to be a big hit globally for ford IMO.

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Old 07-21-2014, 09:12 AM   #26
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The v6 isnt goin anywhere. Fords gonna ecoboost it. In a few yrs. the 4 will test the waters to see how people feel about turbo mustangs then theyll boost the cyclone.

Theres no reason for them not to. Its already got a turbo in their line-up, they just need to slap it on the six
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:19 AM   #27
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Europeans love their 4 bangers. Ford did right to produce a turbo 4 to make them happy and sell cars.

For some reason, the North Americans think that power can only come in the way of displacement, so the V6 is kept and sold here.

If Ronnie is correct, we may see the 3.7 stay and get turbo'd from the factory. Otherwise, the turbo 4 owners are going to have some fun with us 3.7 owners, unless we mod them to stay a step ahead.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:28 PM   #28
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First, I don't want to hijack this post. Sorry. GM? I retired from GM! That said, I did the tooling for the aluminum hoods at Ford back in the early 90s. Automotive aluminum is still in the development days, as is the tooling. Much to learn in high yield metal forming of aluminum. Drawing aluminum is very slow and difficult to mass produce. It also has to be handled slowly and that is also a cost issue. I could write volumes on the subject. High yield steel is also a science. Heat that part up and watch what happens! If you weld aluminum, that's great have at it. Apparently your grade tolerates it. Body panel grade aluminum does not. That's OK, the epoxy that is used is better than any weld. Ford will have their hands full with an all aluminum truck. Super high volume. Back when I did it I had the best techs from BUDD company helping me along with both Reynolds and Alcoa. Every day was hell. But, we all learned a lot. Tooling and the metals are specific and won't interchange. That goes for high yield steel too.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:03 PM   #29
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The eco-boost four is what will sell overseas. Numerous factors are involved, especially the tax rate based on displacement. If they offer an eco-boost V6, it will be the new smaller V6 coming out for the F150. The 3.7 will be the base engine for a long time, unless the government make some stupid regulation. There is a possibility that this administration or another like it, could restrict the engine output HP by vehicle weight.

Aluminum can be welded, look at any pontoon boat. It just is not efficient to do so. The welds tend to weaken the metal at the joins. Chemical bonding is much more reliable, and less cost.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:45 AM   #30
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First, I don't want to hijack this post. Sorry. GM? I retired from GM! That said, I did the tooling for the aluminum hoods at Ford back in the early 90s. Automotive aluminum is still in the development days, as is the tooling. Much to learn in high yield metal forming of aluminum. Drawing aluminum is very slow and difficult to mass produce. It also has to be handled slowly and that is also a cost issue. I could write volumes on the subject. High yield steel is also a science. Heat that part up and watch what happens! If you weld aluminum, that's great have at it. Apparently your grade tolerates it. Body panel grade aluminum does not. That's OK, the epoxy that is used is better than any weld. Ford will have their hands full with an all aluminum truck. Super high volume. Back when I did it I had the best techs from BUDD company helping me along with both Reynolds and Alcoa. Every day was hell. But, we all learned a lot. Tooling and the metals are specific and won't interchange. That goes for high yield steel too.
Op, sorry last time.

Aluminium in the auto industry has been around for over 50 years, so it not in the development stages, certain process on how to mass produce it on an assembly line is, but not the material itself. Second its not just the aluminium grade that I weld that's weldable, its 80% of them, that excludes aerospace aluminium. There is a 4 digit code that represents its chemistry and density. There are different grades for different process of manufacturing that will serve different functions. My whole statement was about how aluminium is weldable and has been around for decades in the auto industry. Like someone stated in another thread, just because you haven't done it doesn't mean its not possible as your former employer does it now and has done it years past, also as in the link I posted for you (2012 article). Being a former tool and die maker I'm sure metallurgy is something you had to learn in trade school like I did that explain density and % of elements in certain metals to understand why or why not they can be used it certain applications and, in my case, also how weld zones (heat zones) will change the molecular structure in that area and how to address it.

Again I don't want to argue with you, I'm just trying to say aluminium and most any grade can be welded and does exist in the auto world and has for many years.

Op, again I'm sorry, this is my last post on this topic.

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Old 07-22-2014, 05:24 PM   #31
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I was at the dealer the other day talking to the service center manager about the new ecoboost 4 mustang. He was worried about the heat building up and how the mustang would react (I'm here in Texas). He said that the ecoboost trucks have been good for them with the large engine bays, but the SUV's like the escape with the smaller ecoboost engines and small engine bays that don't allow for much heat to escape are about half of the new car problems they work on right now. I doubt ford will really push fleet sales on the 4 cyl until they know it will be as reliable as the 6, but I don't know anything about that.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:53 PM   #32
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I don't think there will be much of a problem.

I had a John Cooper Works Mini that was Turbo charged and never had a problem with heat. If you look, They have a very small engine compartment.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CUBuffalo View Post
I was at the dealer the other day talking to the service center manager about the new ecoboost 4 mustang. He was worried about the heat building up and how the mustang would react (I'm here in Texas). He said that the ecoboost trucks have been good for them with the large engine bays, but the SUV's like the escape with the smaller ecoboost engines and small engine bays that don't allow for much heat to escape are about half of the new car problems they work on right now. I doubt ford will really push fleet sales on the 4 cyl until they know it will be as reliable as the 6, but I don't know anything about that.
The thing is even though its a small sports car you have to remember they fit the 5.0 DOHC engines which are huge. The 2015's will be similar in size so the Mustangs engine bay is actually a lot bigger then a fusion or focus. I mean look at a picture of a V6 mustang the first time I popped the hood I was shocked how much room is in there with the DOHC V6. I think if I tried there are certain places I could stand in the engine bay.

Even so I don't see how extra room in the engine bay would make a difference with heat. I would think it would be more important on how well the air flows in and out of it that would matter more then empty space around the engine.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:39 PM   #34
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I think the 3.7 in it's current form is seriously towards the end of it's life.

The new F150 has dropped the base 3.7, going to a less powerful 3.5 NA V6 making 280hp and 250lb-ft, along with a 2.7L EcoBoost V6. The 2.7 EB V6 will make 325hp and 375lb-ft.

Carry over engines are the 3.5 EB and the 5.0 V8.


With this news, I would guess that the 3.7 has maybe 2 or 3 years left before it will be replaced across Fords lineup.

That said, Ford should have just had the carryover 3.7, the 2.7 EB V6 and the 5.0.
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