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Old 08-22-2014, 03:35 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by shunc01 View Post
I gave up on steeda I sent them an email like 2 weeks ago and never responded to me. I email Mpt yesterday and got an answer early today.

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Yikes, did you call them? Try to hit up that guy who posts on here. He might be able to set something up.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:50 PM   #142
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Hey, kind of good news. I just talked on the phone with the dyno shop. They have the raw data, but they guy who ran shunc's dyno just doesn't know how to pull it off the computer. He's going to have one of his colleagues send it to me, but he says they are really busy right now. It would be nice if they send it today so we can work on it over the weekend. Will let you all know.
Well looks like they didn't get it to me today. Pity, because I could have used the weekend to work on it.

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Old 08-22-2014, 10:06 PM   #143
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That sucks...
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:38 PM   #144
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Forgive me for taking two months to do this. The move consumed much more of my life than I thought it would. I got the raw data from shunc's dyno shop and analyzed it in Excel. Here are my graphs.











There is some interesting stuff going on from 3500-6000 RPM, so I decided to calculate the areas under the curve in that region alone, both for torque and horsepower. Since the number of the AUC is kind of arbitrary (technically tq-rpm and hp-rpm), I normalized the number to the maximum of the three, which was MPT for both torque and hp. So for the graph below, you interpret the number as being the percentage that stock and Steeda are of MPT's number. In other words, stock is producing about 95% of the torque and hp as MPT from 3500-6000 rpm, and Steeda is producing 99%.





I'm pretty new to doing all this, so go ahead and let me know if you are curious about more information and I'll be happy to play around with it more. I just spent 3 hours after work doing all this and didn't even get off my seat once, so I'm having fun with it. I'll send the Excel file I made to Voltwings and shunc01 by email right now.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:45 PM   #145
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So in the end your saying and your graphs show that MPT kicked a$$ and is the real deal. Lol

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Old 10-21-2014, 09:49 PM   #146
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So in the end your saying and your graphs show that MPT kicked a$$ and is the real deal. Lol

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Yes it wins out in the 3500-6000 range, but it doesn't kick Steeda's a$$ by any stretch of the imagination. Steeda is only 1% behind. But MPT's way low in the 2500-3400ish range. I don't know what's up with that, do you guys running MPT feel it lower than the others down there? I could go run the numbers (and I definitely will tomorrow) but frankly I'm really hungry and want to go home and eat dinner. I stayed at the office to do this.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:10 PM   #147
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Yes it wins out in the 3500-6000 range, but it doesn't kick Steeda's a$$ by any stretch of the imagination. Steeda is only 1% behind. But MPT's way low in the 2500-3400ish range. I don't know what's up with that, do you guys running MPT feel it lower than the others down there? I could go run the numbers (and I definitely will tomorrow) but frankly I'm really hungry and want to go home and eat dinner. I stayed at the office to do this.
I don't feel any lag from mine. Then again you need a larger data pool to get good comparisons.

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Old 10-22-2014, 12:22 AM   #148
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Nice thanks. Always like reading data

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Old 10-22-2014, 05:19 AM   #149
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Yes it wins out in the 3500-6000 range, but it doesn't kick Steeda's a$$ by any stretch of the imagination. Steeda is only 1% behind. But MPT's way low in the 2500-3400ish range. I don't know what's up with that, do you guys running MPT feel it lower than the others down there? I could go run the numbers (and I definitely will tomorrow) but frankly I'm really hungry and want to go home and eat dinner. I stayed at the office to do this.
Thank you Sakib I appreciate your time doing this.. As far as my butt dyno MPT is far better compared to my steeda. The power starts at 2000 rpm to 3500 with no lag at all. I tried my steeda but went back to Mpt right away cos I can't justify using it compared to my MPT. Thanks again sir.

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Old 10-22-2014, 06:04 AM   #150
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I'm thinking about doing custom tune, but have to wait till I get my ported manifold. We're doing a group but if anyone is interested let us know me and Fintile are doing it and I think grabberblue1993 too. 700 if you want supersix to supply upper and lower manifold already ported and if you send the stock manifold back you'll get 200 in return so 500 total plus 5% for the group buy. This is from Tom that I spoke too he agreed with it.

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Old 10-22-2014, 06:54 AM   #151
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The graph work made up my mind MPT it is! I'm calling soon! Thanks for the research.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:00 AM   #152
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Yes it wins out in the 3500-6000 range, but it doesn't kick Steeda's a$$ by any stretch of the imagination. Steeda is only 1% behind. But MPT's way low in the 2500-3400ish range. I don't know what's up with that, do you guys running MPT feel it lower than the others down there? I could go run the numbers (and I definitely will tomorrow) but frankly I'm really hungry and want to go home and eat dinner. I stayed at the office to do this.

Sakib these are amazing, this makes it so easy to interpret this data, and i'd say this forum owes you a thanks!

In regards to this statement, keep in mind that WOT conditions and part throttle conditions will be completely different. I'd imagine just putting around town at 25% throttle or less, one would never know the difference between the two tunes even existed, and even if you went WOT you likely arent doing it from 2000 rpms anyways.
What i find the most interesting is that all the tunes seem to make right about the same peak HP up top, even stock. Goes to show that you're really just gaining massive amounts of torque in the mid range (at least in this case, with these mods ...). Awesome work man, this is good stuff.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:41 AM   #153
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Definitely an eye opener. From the graph the the Steeda tune look to be the most level and flat lined curve. 200 rpm and on Steeda had the trq,AFR is also spot in. MPT makes its small hp gain over both by going leaner 3k+ that trq though is sad. 2k rpm and it's 30+ ft lbs less than Steeda. If I'm not mistaken I think it's the shift points that MPT has on their tune that everyone is jizzing their batman underwear icer. It's not faster, it's barely more powerful and to top it off its the most jumpy of the 3 tunes. I think Steeda tune with a couple datalogs would be a much better performer.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:45 AM   #154
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Those are the NICEST dyno charts I have ever seen. Viewing it from my phone was amazing compared to the standard pics of printouts, microscopic numbers and dotted lines. Good job!

Oh and your tune looked good, too! That bump in tq on the MPT looks fun.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:51 AM   #155
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Hey no problem. It was fun and I want to do this to learn more about analyzing dyno data. So if anyone has tips on what more analysis can be done, please advise, I will be happy to try.

I calculated the area under the curve for 2500-3500 RPM and the results are as expected visually - MPT is significantly lower than the rest. Steeda wins out in this range, stock is 98% of Steeda for both torque and hp, and MPT is 92% of Steeda for hp, 93% for torque. Graph:



But people say from experience, including shunc01 whose car this data is from, that MPT is stronger even in this low range. Can anyone explain what might be happening here?
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:59 AM   #156
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Definitely an eye opener. From the graph the the Steeda tune look to be the most level and flat lined curve. 200 rpm and on Steeda had the trq,AFR is also spot in. MPT makes its small hp gain over both by going leaner 3k+ that trq though is sad. 2k rpm and it's 30+ ft lbs less than Steeda. If I'm not mistaken I think it's the shift points that MPT has on their tune that everyone is jizzing their batman underwear icer. It's not faster, it's barely more powerful and to top it off its the most jumpy of the 3 tunes. I think Steeda tune with a couple datalogs would be a much better performer.
I think you might be right reg. the shift points! Unless people with manuals also "jizz their batman underwear" over the MPT tunes, lol. But I don't know, curious to know what Voltwings and others with a lot of dyno experience have to say. Volt, I understand what you are saying about performance being different in every day driving when not WOT. So shunc01, do you think MPT is still the best when you are WOT in that low-end range? I guess it's hard to say, since you'll only be 2500-3000 for a few tenths of seconds!
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #157
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I think you might be right reg. the shift points! Unless people with manuals also "jizz their batman underwear" over the MPT tunes, lol. But I don't know, curious to know what Voltwings and others with a lot of dyno experience have to say. Volt, I understand what you are saying about performance being different in every day driving when not WOT. So shunc01, do you think MPT is still the best when you are WOT in that low-end range? I guess it's hard to say, since you'll only be 2500-3000 for a few tenths of seconds!
All I can say is my Mpt compared to steeda from a low range wot is that my Mpt is more snappier, you feel that kick when you accelerate like instantly and no lag at all this is why I use it as my daily tune, now compared to my steeda from low range I can almost compare it to my stock and the worst part is its not instantaneous, the lag is killing me. From the graph that iv seen steeda and Mpt is almost identical in numbers and even steeda is higher by a point hp wise and my Mpt is a little higher tq wise. I just don't understand why my steeda tune is not as aggressive as my Mpt when they're not that far when it comes to dyno numbers.

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Old 10-22-2014, 12:03 PM   #158
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Graph > Numbers. Look at where Sakib broke out the torque for us. Even though the peak numbers are close, MPT has a 5-8 WTQ advantage from roughly 3700 to like 5500, which is a difference you will certainly feel during a pull.

Another thing could be how they have the applied pedal position adjusted. When tuning big turbos that are inherently laggy, i can adjust the throttle to a much higher percentage than the actual applied pedal position, making the car feel extremely responsive.
For example, instead of a 1:1 relationship where 25% pedal travel = 25% throttle open, i can set it where 10% pedal travel is 25% open, 15% pedal travel is 30% open, and so forth. This way the car will "feel" faster at any given pedal input, even though you're really not making any more power. This may not be the reason the MPT tune feels better, but its one of the only things i can think of effecting it. An easy way to check would be datalogging applied pedal position vs actual pedal position for both tunes. I know i'm a broken record with this, but it does take a lot of guesswork out of things haha.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #159
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Graph > Numbers. Look at where Sakib broke out the torque for us. Even though the peak numbers are close, MPT has a 5-8 WTQ advantage from roughly 3700 to like 5500, which is a difference you will certainly feel during a pull.

Another thing could be how they have the applied pedal position adjusted. When tuning big turbos that are inherently laggy, i can adjust the throttle to a much higher percentage than the actual applied pedal position, making the car feel extremely responsive.
For example, instead of a 1:1 relationship where 25% pedal travel = 25% throttle open, i can set it where 10% pedal travel is 25% open, 15% pedal travel is 30% open, and so forth. This way the car will "feel" faster at any given pedal input, even though you're really not making any more power. This may not be the reason the MPT tune feels better, but its one of the only things i can think of effecting it. An easy way to check would be datalogging applied pedal position vs actual pedal position for both tunes. I know i'm a broken record with this, but it does take a lot of guesswork out of things haha.
Will be data logging this weekend will see how those numbers are with correlates to my dyno. It make sense that MPT might have changed there shift points to make it feel faster but not hp wise but tq. Youre logic make perfect sense but will never know how MPT makes you "feel" faster..
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:16 PM   #160
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Another thing could be how they have the applied pedal position adjusted. When tuning big turbos that are inherently laggy, i can adjust the throttle to a much higher percentage than the actual applied pedal position, making the car feel extremely responsive.
For example, instead of a 1:1 relationship where 25% pedal travel = 25% throttle open, i can set it where 10% pedal travel is 25% open, 15% pedal travel is 30% open, and so forth. This way the car will "feel" faster at any given pedal input, even though you're really not making any more power. This may not be the reason the MPT tune feels better, but its one of the only things i can think of effecting it. An easy way to check would be datalogging applied pedal position vs actual pedal position for both tunes. I know i'm a broken record with this, but it does take a lot of guesswork out of things haha.
+1 I was thinking exactly the same thing as I was reading shunc's last post. I bet it's a pedal position adjustment.

Shunc, do you think you can get a simultaneous datalog next time you go to the dyno? (you said you're going this weekend right?) Seeing what it is these tunes are doing would help a lot to better understand the dyno results.

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Old 10-22-2014, 12:19 PM   #161
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If you can, can you see about having the Actual and Applied pedal position PIDs logged? I dont remember what they're called verbatim but i can check when i get home. I wouldnt doubt MPTs Actual to applied ratio is >1
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:21 PM   #162
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Graph > Numbers. Look at where Sakib broke out the torque for us. Even though the peak numbers are close, MPT has a 5-8 WTQ advantage from roughly 3700 to like 5500, which is a difference you will certainly feel during a pull.

Another thing could be how they have the applied pedal position adjusted. When tuning big turbos that are inherently laggy, i can adjust the throttle to a much higher percentage than the actual applied pedal position, making the car feel extremely responsive.
For example, instead of a 1:1 relationship where 25% pedal travel = 25% throttle open, i can set it where 10% pedal travel is 25% open, 15% pedal travel is 30% open, and so forth. This way the car will "feel" faster at any given pedal input, even though you're really not making any more power. This may not be the reason the MPT tune feels better, but its one of the only things i can think of effecting it. An easy way to check would be datalogging applied pedal position vs actual pedal position for both tunes. I know i'm a broken record with this, but it does take a lot of guesswork out of things haha.
Oh I would love to check that out in my car as well...I wonder if there is a way to adjust the pedal WOT and Actual WOT. AS you said Voltwings that in the Mazdas and the drive by wire system when you "floor" it WOT its actual is only 80%, could there be any chance of increase in power if the actual was adjusted to say 90% or even 100%?

Oh if your able to, would you mind checking what my actual WOT was in my Datalog? That would be interesting to see cauuse i know I had the pedal down to the floor when logging lol.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:26 PM   #163
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Graph > Numbers. Look at where Sakib broke out the torque for us. Even though the peak numbers are close, MPT has a 5-8 WTQ advantage from roughly 3700 to like 5500, which is a difference you will certainly feel during a pull.

Another thing could be how they have the applied pedal position adjusted. When tuning big turbos that are inherently laggy, i can adjust the throttle to a much higher percentage than the actual applied pedal position, making the car feel extremely responsive.
For example, instead of a 1:1 relationship where 25% pedal travel = 25% throttle open, i can set it where 10% pedal travel is 25% open, 15% pedal travel is 30% open, and so forth. This way the car will "feel" faster at any given pedal input, even though you're really not making any more power. This may not be the reason the MPT tune feels better, but its one of the only things i can think of effecting it. An easy way to check would be datalogging applied pedal position vs actual pedal position for both tunes. I know i'm a broken record with this, but it does take a lot of guesswork out of things haha.
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+1 I was thinking exactly the same thing as I was reading shunc's last post. I bet it's a pedal position adjustment.

Shunc, do you think you can get a simultaneous datalog next time you go to the dyno? (you said you're going this weekend right?) Seeing what it is these tunes are doing would help a lot to better understand the dyno results.

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Im sorry sakib no dyno this time, but will be data logging this weekend. The next time i will be going there is when i get my custom tune and they will dyno as well to get the baseline which is my MPT and there tune. Ill wait till i get my intake mani ported.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:31 PM   #164
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Oh I would love to check that out in my car as well...I wonder if there is a way to adjust the pedal WOT and Actual WOT. AS you said Voltwings that in the Mazdas and the drive by wire system when you "floor" it WOT its actual is only 80%, could there be any chance of increase in power if the actual was adjusted to say 90% or even 100%?

Oh if your able to, would you mind checking what my actual WOT was in my Datalog? That would be interesting to see cauuse i know I had the pedal down to the floor when logging lol.
Lol not to get too off topic here, but yes, you can actually increase the Mazda's max throttle position beyond 80%. Doing so however, basically negates the computer's ability to modulate the throttle close in case of an over boost situation, so most tuners chose to leave it alone. Would rather have a safety feature in place and give up a few whp than negate the computers ability to save the motor. I cant say if the same logic applies in the mustangs, but i can certainly glance at your log when i get home.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:43 PM   #165
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Im sorry sakib no dyno this time, but will be data logging this weekend. The next time i will be going there is when i get my custom tune and they will dyno as well to get the baseline which is my MPT and there tune. Ill wait till i get my intake mani ported.


Oh that's cool, no worries. Dyno is expensive! Just let me know when you do go again, the more data I can get my hands on the better. Same goes for anyone else who is going to the dyno - I'd be happy to look at your data, I just need to make sure the dyno shop pulls off the raw data from the machine and sends it to me.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #166
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Oh that's cool, no worries. Dyno is expensive! Just let me know when you do go again, the more data I can get my hands on the better. Same goes for anyone else who is going to the dyno - I'd be happy to look at your data, I just need to make sure the dyno shop pulls off the raw data from the machine and sends it to me.
Sakib, i've got tons of datalogs lying around that i use for the virtual dyno program i posted above. What exactly is it you're looking for? Or do you need the actual Torque / whp readouts? I've never bothered seeing if VD will give a detailed readout, but i may spend some time playing with it when i get home... I have quite the to-do list growing haha.

Edit: Herp derp, that was another thread. At any rate, i encourage those here to find themselves a nice flat / straight road to datalog on and play around with virtual dyno as its an incredibly useful and powerful program. http://www.virtualdyno.net
Unfortunately the last time i checked, only the Standards were supported. I'm sure you can use an automatic datalog, the numbers will jsut be wrong since the gearing is different, but the over all graph should still be the same i believe.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:55 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Sakib, i've got tons of datalogs lying around that i use for the virtual dyno program i posted above. What exactly is it you're looking for? Or do you need the actual Torque / whp readouts? I've never bothered seeing if VD will give a detailed readout, but i may spend some time playing with it when i get home... I have quite the to-do list growing haha.
What I'm trying to do is reverse engineer tunes. Not that I want to become a tuner myself and put them out of business, but as an engineer and a scientist, I want to understand what it is that the tunes are actually doing and how that affects performance. I'm not satisfied with just knowing that there is this magical device I plug into my car which delivers steroids to the little leprechauns that live inside the engine and make the car faster. I want to know what is going on from a very technical standpoint.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:05 PM   #168
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Ok, i'll dig up a couple of good logs and send you copies of the logs, as well as the VD graphs this evening.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:43 PM   #169
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Oh id love to be able to see the vurtual dyno numbers on my datalog. How would I do that? Sakib would I just send you my log file or how does this work?
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:46 PM   #170
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Download the program i linked in post #166 and just upload your datalog. It may take a second to go through it, but the software is pretty straight forward. You'll know pretty quickly if its a good log or not lol, bumps or wheel spin will put hills / valleys in the graph, but if its not bad you can still kind of interpolate around it.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:56 PM   #171
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nice...is there a phone app? My comp is no good and cant use the one at work...
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:59 PM   #172
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Not that i'm aware, i'll just plug yours in to mine when i get home.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:50 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Sakib View Post
Oh that's cool, no worries. Dyno is expensive! Just let me know when you do go again, the more data I can get my hands on the better. Same goes for anyone else who is going to the dyno - I'd be happy to look at your data, I just need to make sure the dyno shop pulls off the raw data from the machine and sends it to me.
I'll make sure to get the raw data this time for sure.. I'll be going to a different this time and they only deal with mustangs so this guy knows what he is doing. For custom dyno he is quoting me for 300 bucks max and if it's lower than 3 hours he will charge me less, it's a bit far of a drive but it's worth it. I'll keep you posted and Voltwings too.

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Old 10-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Not that i'm aware, i'll just plug yours in to mine when i get home.
Oh sweet thanks!





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I'll make sure to get the raw data this time for sure.. I'll be going to a different this time and they only deal with mustangs so this guy knows what he is doing. For custom dyno he is quoting me for 300 bucks max and if it's lower than 3 hours he will charge me less, it's a bit far of a drive but it's worth it. I'll keep you posted and Voltwings too.

Borla touring, airraid Cai, Mac ceramic shorty headers, frrp x pipe, 2010 gt500 rims, 35 % tint and more to come..
I'm coming too! I wanna get a custom tune once I get those ported intakes.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:23 AM   #175
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Well boys it's almost dyno time. Finally got the installs done and now I'm just worried about the stock DS

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