Swapping to a gt500 rear end - Mustang Evolution

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Old 08-26-2014, 07:49 AM   #1
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Swapping to a gt500 rear end

OK, i have read high and low and have Not really found a concrete answer for this.

I will be installing a 2011 GT500 rear end (full 8.8 axle) into my GFs 2014 v6. It is my understanding that on the other 2005-2010 V6s that the cobra pinion flange (Ford Racing Mustang Pinion Flange M-4851-B (03-04 Cobra) - Free Shipping) is needed to go from the 7.5 rear to the 8.8.

So far i cant find any threads about someone swapping the full rear on a 2011+ v6 (probably because you can just do a gear swap) but i got the axle for free and am capable of doing the swap myself, so i really just want to make sure i have everything. If the Gt500 rear is an 8.8, and the 3.7 rear is an 8.8, it "should" bolt right up correct? Or did Ford make a different flange for the v6?

Secondly, i have seen some people say "oh you just pop the new flange on and go." I have also seen "take it to a shop, they have to press the new flange on with a new crush sleeve and set the pre load and yada yada..." I am ok with doing this right the first time, but i'm wondering what is really needed and what is excessive. Thanks.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:03 AM   #2
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I have been looking into this as well and I know I read it somewhere (just can't remember where) that the full rear-ends are swappable with GTs/V6s/etc. in the later models.

Definitely interested in hearing how this goes.

Good Luck!
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:33 AM   #3
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The flange is necessary. Here AM sells it and advises it. I believe they have the install instructions as well:

http://m.americanmuscle.com/frpp-svt...mbly-0512.html

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:47 AM   #4
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I dont think thats correct though, the 05-14 V6 dont have the same axle. I have a feeling someones not taking into account the fact that the 05-10 have a 7.5 and the 11+ already have an 8.8...
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:51 AM   #5
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I did some quick digging and for some reason what I found is o the 5.0 it bolts right up but on the V6 it needs the flange. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

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Old 08-26-2014, 09:02 AM   #6
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Ehh its $30, i guess i'll just order it any ways. The second question is: is it just bolt on and go, or do i need a shop to press it on?
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:16 AM   #7
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Bolts up, no need to press it. It looks like someone with a 2014 v6 already did this swap. I can't find many details on build though.

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Old 08-26-2014, 10:49 AM   #8
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Volt-Looking like you got a slew of answers in here! I remember seeing the thread some time back and I'm trying to hunt it down but the FR Pinion Flange will definitely be necessary in order to attach your ds to the new rear. Let me know if you have any other questions!

Alex

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The flange is necessary. Here AM sells it and advises it. I believe they have the install instructions as well:

Ford Racing Mustang SVT Rear Axle Assembly M-4001-A373 (05-14 All) - Free Shipping - AmericanMuscle

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Old 08-26-2014, 11:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMAlexLazarus View Post
Volt-Looking like you got a slew of answers in here! I remember seeing the thread some time back and I'm trying to hunt it down but the FR Pinion Flange will definitely be necessary in order to attach your ds to the new rear. Let me know if you have any other questions!

Alex
Just placed my order. Not exactly on a time crunch, other than i wanted to do it this weekend, so hopefully no extra tools (like a press) are needed. I just wish i could find a thread with a picture so i could at least see how the pinion flange fits into the equation. I've looked at the 8.8 sitting in storage, and pictures of the Cobra flange and they do look quite different ... i guess thats the point of having to switch, but i guess we'll see.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:21 PM   #10
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Subscribed. Seems like this would be more cost effective since it could be done at home. How much was the axle?? I think i saw them for like $1200 somewhere but i forget. Ford wanted $900 for labour only on a gear change. Doesnt include gears, or the speedo programmer to adjust for anything above 3.31
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:31 PM   #11
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Free. Guy at work bought a spare 3.55 axle to build for his Texas mile GT500. He and i are good buddies, and i mentioned just letting us throw it in Valerie's car and giving him her axle since he basically just wanted the housing and hers only has ~1000 miles on it. Win win. Just gotta go dig my transmission jack out of storage because this ***** is HEAVY lol.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:33 PM   #12
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I always thought the 2011 up V6 had the 8.8 differential.

I don't really know for sure but from what I have been reading the 2011 up 3.7 V6 uses the same differential (8.8)as the gt but the standard ratio is 2.73. The performance gears are 3.31. The V6 also shares both manual and automatic transmissions but with different gear ratios with the gt.
I have only heard this about a million times since 2010 just before the 2011 3.7 305 HP V6 came out.
Someone needs to clue me in if I read this wrong over the years.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
I don't really know for sure but from what I have been reading the 2011 up 3.7 V6 uses the same differential (8.8)as the gt but the standard ratio is 2.73. The performance gears are 3.31. The V6 also shares both manual and automatic transmissions but with different gear ratios with the gt.
I have only heard this about a million times since 2010 just before the 2011 3.7 305 HP V6 came out.
Someone needs to clue me in if I read this wrong over the years.
Ronnie

That is all correct. My question is the flange going from the driveshaft to the new rear end. Why Ford chose to make a separate flange for the V6 is beyond me, but oh well. It was $50 with 3 day shipping (want it for this weekend) so i guess i really cant complain if i end up not needing it and sending it back.

I've done more suspension / control arms than i can count, so i'm very familiar with taking the entire rear end apart, except for the driveshaft, so hopefully this experience is fairly smooth and painless.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:45 PM   #14
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Yeah, let us know how it goes. I was actually looking at that swap later on down the line of my build.

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Old 08-26-2014, 12:45 PM   #15
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VoltWings

You say your girl friends V6 is a 2014
Why would you change the whole assembly?
I'm just wondering & CONFUSED.
Ronnie

She seems to alredy have the 8.8 inch differential.
Mustang 7.5” & 8.8” Rear End & Axle Info
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
You say your girl friends V6 is a 2014
Why would you change the whole assembly?
I'm just wondering & CONFUSED.
Ronnie

She seems to alredy have the 8.8 inch differential.
Mustang 7.5” & 8.8” Rear End & Axle Info

3.55 > 2.73, it was free, and i have the tools to do it? We road race our cars, and the 2.73 are just WAY too long to function on a track, even going down to a 26" tire, so it really just worked out.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:46 PM   #17
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Swapping to a gt500 rear end

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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
3.55 > 2.73, it was free, and i have the tools to do it? We road race our cars, and the 2.73 are just WAY too long to function on a track, even going down to a 26" tire, so it really just worked out.

Not tryin to threadjack but what would be a 26" tire on a 17" rim? And what ratio would that make the rear end act like
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:49 PM   #18
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11+ V6 already has an 8.8,


Bullitts are better than Bullets
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
11+ V6 already has an 8.8,


Bullitts are better than Bullets
Yep, that's true but that's not the point of the swap.

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by JoeyM91 View Post
Yep, that's true but that's not the point of the swap.

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I guess I don't see the point then.


Bullitts are better than Bullets
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
I guess I don't see the point then.


Bullitts are better than Bullets
Stronger overall rear end, heavy duty carrier, ford racing diff, 3.55 or 3.73 gears, traction lok carbon clutch packs and stronger axles. It saves a lot of labor and cost to swap the whole rear axle rather than piece together the stock one.

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:59 PM   #22
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I thought a GT/Boss rearend and V6 were interchangable... why would the V6 need a cobra flange and a GT not need it?
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:02 PM   #23
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This is a Gt500/ Cobra rear end, not the one on the GT or boss. As to why the 5.0 doesn't and the V6 doesnt, I can't find a good answer. My best guess is due to the shape of the u joint on the V6 versus the 5.0.

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Old 08-27-2014, 07:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somedopebeats View Post
Not tryin to threadjack but what would be a 26" tire on a 17" rim? And what ratio would that make the rear end act like
I got her a set of 245 40 18 nitto NT01s to put on my factory 18 x 8 rims, which works out to about 25.8" for now. Eventually she'll end up on a pair of 18 x 10s like me (just couldnt afford 8 rims and tires at once) with a 295 35 18 which is about 26.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
11+ V6 already has an 8.8,


Bullitts are better than Bullets
V6 also comes with a 2.73, i want a 3.55 for her. As mentioned above, the 2.73s are WAY too long for a road course ... 50 mph in 3rd is under 3k rpms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveWire003 View Post
I thought a GT/Boss rearend and V6 were interchangable... why would the V6 need a cobra flange and a GT not need it?

The physical rear end is the same, my concern is the pinion flange to bolt the V6 driveshaft to the gt500 rear end.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #25
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I have a very "STUPID" question ?????????????????????

Why not just change the ratio in the 8.8 rear that is already in the 2014 Mustang ?

A GT 500 uses the same rear. 31 spline 8.8
Are you getting a complete "FORD RACING" Rear axle assembly???

If so, I can see why your changing the whole package.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:28 AM   #26
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It's the full ford racing rear end if I'm not mistaken. Diff, axles, gears, carbon clutch packs, etc.

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Old 08-27-2014, 08:33 AM   #27
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I see the point of changing it now

Just be certain your getting a genuine "FORD RACING" assembly. Unless your buying it new, the seller might not be selling you the real thing and just a GT assembly.
Why is the person selling it anyway?
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:51 AM   #28
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I really dont care. Again, it was FREE, and it sure as hell cant be anything worse than a stock V6 rear end. We are only interested in the 3.55 gears, anything else is just a bonus.

I have no idea why the seller sold it, but i'm not the one who bought it, see post #11.
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:29 AM   #29
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Lucky gf. Gets free gears, free Ford Racing rear axle, and free labor. And lucky you, for having a gf who's into Mustangs!

Let us know what you discover about the flange when doing the install.

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Old 08-27-2014, 09:45 AM   #30
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Lucky gf. Gets free gears, free Ford Racing rear axle, and free labor. And lucky you, for having a gf who's into Mustangs!

Let us know what you discover about the flange when doing the install.

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Hah, its bittersweet having a girl that is into track driving as well.

on the one hand she understands why i want badass tires, and is ok spending the money. On the other, she wants them too! haha Its expensive tracking 2 mustangs, but i suppose there are worse things in this world. Shes buying us a set of Corbeau seats for our next track day, i think i can install an axle haha.

To be honest, its kind of fun working on her V6. Its close enough to my 5.0 to be familiar, but different enough to be exciting.
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:36 PM   #31
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So, we got the rears swapped today, and below i'll make sort of a short walkthrough / step by step and try to list the steps needed.


First, I decided it would be best to remove the driveshaft to prevent it from binding as the axle starting shifting from removing the various pieces. There's 4 bolts on the shaft, 12 pt 12mm socket and they come right off. I just zip tied it against the exhaust to keep it from drooping down, but it wasn't really in the way.



Next, I figured the sway bar was in the way of a lot of the LCA / PHB bolts so it would be best to take that off next. Took the 4 nuts off the umm axle, strut, piece.



And next you take the 2 holding the end link off the body. Easy enough.



So, I got the LCA bolt about this far out before I realized the axle was binding it quite a bit



So I figured it was time to bust out the handy dandy trans jack and put it to work.

This baby pivots on an X and Y axis, making it extremely versatile and useful in situations like this.


Up next was removing the rear calipers / rotors. The Difficult part was that everything I could have possibly zip tied them to was being removed... so I just assembled whatever boxes I had laying around to get the job done.



Important safety tip, don't forget this hal effect sensor when taking everything out. I believe its the traction control since its measuring off the hub, but whatever, take it off.



So, lastly was the 2 bolts holding the struts on the axle, and the PHB, but I needed my GF to come out for a spare set of hands and didn't get pictures of the process. This, ladies in gentlemen though, is how you get an axle out. Granted we have done a few sets of LCAs / brackets / PHB now, so we were used to the process. Having an impact also makes the process go by faster, but it probably wasn't even 1 -1.5 hours before we had it out.





Important safety tip. The axle is heavy as hell, i'd guess about 200 lbs or more. It is very important to have a confident hold on it when moving it about.




Since my GF and I road race our cars, I decided i'd address a few things while we had it all apart, namely:
Heat tape between the gas tank and exhaust



And a finned Diff cover (as well as a much needed fluid change)



So, this flange was needed for the swap:
Ford Racing Mustang Pinion Flange M-4851-B (03-04 Cobra) - Free Shipping
However, i'd swear it was identical to the one that was on her factory V6 driveshaft. It was however, different from the GT500 unit, so it did need to be replaced.


Another thing. The V6 sway bar (and i'm assuming GT since they're the same design) WILL NOT fit on the GT500 axle, the flanges are different.


V6 / GT



GT500



To compensate for this we just plan on ordering a Whiteline sway bar, which I believe is a quality piece anyways, so its hardly a deal breaker.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/whitel...ybar-0513.html
Aside from that, its a very basic and straight forward swap, assuming you have the right tools.
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:53 PM   #32
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So, we got the rears swapped today, and below i'll make sort of a short walkthrough / step by step and try to list the steps needed.


First, I decided it would be best to remove the driveshaft first to prevent it from binding as the axle starting shifting from removing the various pieces. There's 4 bolts on the shaft, 12 pt 12mm socket and they come right off. I just zip tied it against the exhaust to keep it from drooping down, but it wasn't really in the way.



Next, I figured the sway bar was in the way of a lot of the LCA / PHB bolts so it would be best to take that off next. Took the 4 nuts off the umm axle, strut, piece.



And next you take the 2 holding the end link off the body. Easy enough.



So, I got the LCA bolt about this far out before I realized the axle was binding it quite a bit



So I figured it was time to bust out the handy dandy trans jack and put it to work.

This baby pivots on an X and Y axis, making it extremely versatile and useful in situations like this.


Up next was removing the rear calipers / rotors. The Difficult part was that everything I could have possibly zip tied them to was behind removed... so I just assembled whatever boxes I had laying around to get the job done.



Important safety tip, don't forget this hal effect sensor when taking everything out. I believe its the traction control since its measuring off the hub, but whatever, take it off.



So, lastly was the 2 bolts holding the struts on the axle, and the PHB, but I needed my GF to come out for a spare set of hands and didn't get pictures of the process. This, ladies in gentlemen though, is how you get an axle out. Granted we have done a few sets of LCAs / brackets / PHB now, so we were used to the process. Having an impact also makes the process go by faster, but it probably wasn't even 1 -1.5 hours before we had it out.





Important safety tip. The axle is heavy as hell, i'd guess about 200 lbs or more. It is very important to have a confident hold on it when moving it about.




Since my GF and I road race our cars, I decided i'd address a few things while we had it all apart, namely:
Heat tape between the gas tank and exhaust



And a finned Diff cover (as well as a much needed fluid change)



So, this flange was needed for the swap:
Ford Racing Mustang Pinion Flange M-4851-B (03-04 Cobra) - Free Shipping
However, i'd swear it was identical to the one that was on her factory V6 driveshaft. It was however, different from the GT500 unit, so it did need to be replaced.


Another thing. The V6 sway bar (and i'm assuming GT since they're the same design) WILL NOT fit on the GT500 axle, the flanges are different. Aside from that, its a very basic and straight forward swap, assuming you have the right tools.
Nice Write up!
And road racing, really cool!
I'll have to pm you about that later..
It's the kind of racing I want to set up my car for (although as of now all I can do is straight line... and because of traction issues, I can't even do that right)

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Old 09-06-2014, 11:21 PM   #33
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For sure man. We haven't been doing it that long, but i'd be more than happy to share what I know.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:12 AM   #34
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For sure man. We haven't been doing it that long, but i'd be more than happy to share what I know.
Good, because I have plenty XD
But for now.
Much needed sleep!

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Old 09-07-2014, 02:09 AM   #35
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Great write up!!
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