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Old 09-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #36
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Yours was with a 91 octane tune and your an automatic too. What's the results for a manual transmission and 93 octane I wonder?

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Yeah, I run 91 octane tunes but time of dyno had 93 octane in my tank. A manual and 93 ocatne tune should get around 15% higher

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Old 09-05-2014, 02:42 PM   #37
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Wow 15% puts me where I want to be and then some. Thanks for all the help guys

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Old 09-05-2014, 03:01 PM   #38
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Wow 15% puts me where I want to be and then some. Thanks for all the help guys

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Yeah, sweet bro. Go get some. Lol! Once you get 300 rwhp you will want 350. Then , 400 rwhp you will want. Then you will want 500 rwhp. Then 600 rwhp. Never enough. Ha ha ha. Its like money. No matter how many millions or billions a company makes in profit each year, they always want more. Give me more, more, more, more more. Lol

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Old 09-05-2014, 03:10 PM   #39
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Yeah, I run 91 octane tunes but time of dyno had 93 octane in my tank. A manual and 93 ocatne tune should get around 15% higher

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15% between manual and auto?!?
I'd say that with these transmissions, they're more like 5-10

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Old 09-05-2014, 03:12 PM   #40
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It's anywhere from 10-20%. Some say 12-18%, generally accepted is 15%
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #41
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Any one have a manual with 93 tune and the mods I listed

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---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

And can attest to the final numbers

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Old 09-05-2014, 06:52 PM   #42
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15% between manual and auto?!?
I'd say that with these transmissions, they're more like 5-10

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You could be right bro. For some reason I always thought around 15% loss more was the rule of thumb. 😝

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Old 09-05-2014, 08:28 PM   #43
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It's 15% from the crank I believe and then there's some complicated math after that for autos. Sakib or someone could explain it its been explained to me numerous times on here I just don't understand it will enough to explain it

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Old 09-05-2014, 09:18 PM   #44
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Here is my list mods. Do this and you should get over 300 rwhp with a manual. I got 297 rwhp with my auto 3.7. I got 294 rwhp 91 Bama tune

91 MPT Tune
Airraid CAI
BBK ceramic long tube headers
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I dyno'd 304HP 291TQ with almost same....
93 Race Tune (Bama)
Airrraid CAI
BBK Ceramic Long Tube Headers
BBK Thottle Body
BBK O/R Xpipe
3.31 Gears (Been debating on going to 3.55s but going ProCharger in March. Ill decide later)

Yes the BBK TB got me over the hump. I was 299 on 2 diff pulls and we popped that on real quick.



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Old 09-05-2014, 09:34 PM   #45
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It's 15% from the crank I believe and then there's some complicated math after that for autos. Sakib or someone could explain it its been explained to me numerous times on here I just don't understand it will enough to explain it
I could explain it all over again, but really it doesn't matter. The thing is that crank hp calculations are estimates. We don't really know how much is being lost due to friction losses in the drivetrain... to really know that you'd have to do research on the components themselves and only Ford engineers will be able to do that. People just use these percentages as ball-park estimates. So no point in getting too nit-picky about the numbers/calculations.

That said, you guys are saying some stuff upstairs that is incorrect. It's not a 15% difference in between manual and auto. Manuals lose ~10-15% from the crank to the wheels. Autos lose ~15-20% from the crank to the wheels. I don't know where you guys got the 15% difference between the two thing, I never heard of that before, that is way too much. Even if you went to the opposite extreme cases of both (10% for manual and 20% for auto) that's still only an 11.1% difference between the two.

Finally, just for completeness sake, I will put the formulas here. With the note, again, that they are estimates. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that manuals lose 15% and autos lose 20%. Here are the formulas for calculating the crank hp if you are given the wheel hp (the number you get from the dyno):

Auto: crank = wheels/0.8
Manual: crank = wheels/0.85

Here's the best article I found online that explains drivetrain losses. It's excellent. Read this and you will understand why this is not a simple answer: Drivetrain Power Loss - The 15% "Rule"- Modified Magazine
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:49 PM   #46
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I FINALLY UNDERSTAND

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Old 09-05-2014, 10:50 PM   #47
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What dynos are you guys using? Do you guys have graphs?
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:54 PM   #48
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I dyno'd 304HP 291TQ with almost same....
93 Race Tune (Bama)
Airrraid CAI
BBK Ceramic Long Tube Headers
BBK Thottle Body
BBK O/R Xpipe
3.31 Gears (Been debating on going to 3.55s but going ProCharger in March. Ill decide later)

Yes the BBK TB got me over the hump. I was 299 on 2 diff pulls and we popped that on real quick.



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My torque was a good bit lower than yours at just 276 rwhp. Lol

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Old 09-05-2014, 10:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by fission View Post
I dyno'd 304HP 291TQ with almost same....
93 Race Tune (Bama)
Airrraid CAI
BBK Ceramic Long Tube Headers
BBK Thottle Body
BBK O/R Xpipe
3.31 Gears (Been debating on going to 3.55s but going ProCharger in March. Ill decide later)

Yes the BBK TB got me over the hump. I was 299 on 2 diff pulls and we popped that on real quick.



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U have lower gears, tb, and 93 not 91 so I could see that

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Old 09-05-2014, 11:09 PM   #50
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U have lower gears, tb, and 93 not 91 so I could see that

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Torque is irrelevant of what gears you have. They only help you 'to get through' rpms faster. Smaller gears = more revolutions.

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Old 09-05-2014, 11:14 PM   #51
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I know that's why his numbers were higher the lower the gears the higher numbers...

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Old 09-06-2014, 01:50 AM   #52
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What dynos are you guys using? Do you guys have graphs?
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Old 09-06-2014, 02:48 AM   #53
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Hate to be "that guy", but those dyno numbers don't mean much if you can't get it to the pavement or don't understand how to handle that power efficiently without ham fisting shifts or blowing your tires off.

Time spent there would be more beneficial than theory crafting dyno numbers.

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Old 09-06-2014, 06:09 AM   #54
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i'm just curious as to how so many guys are breaking the 300rwhp with mild bolt ons ... Unclenard has full bolt ons with super six motor sports ported heads and intake manifolds and is making 308rwhp thats why i'm asking what dynos were used and for graphs.. i know when my car was NA with full bolts ons it was making 275rwhp on a dyno jet
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:42 AM   #55
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Yours is an auto

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Old 09-06-2014, 08:24 AM   #56
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:50 AM   #57
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What fast Ford is getting at is the peak numbers on the dyno is not as useful as what the shape of the curve is. Don't get hung up on the number, it rally isn't so meaningful. And man, check out his thread "project code red". His car makes the hp it does for more than being an auto.

Joey is 100% right. HP numbers is not what your goal should be. making your car fast on the track is your goal. The dyno is just a tool to help you understand where your car needs help, and you do that by looking at the whole curve, not by aiming for a high peak number.

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Old 09-06-2014, 09:23 AM   #58
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You could be right bro. For some reason I always thought around 15% loss more was the rule of thumb. 😝

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Allow me to rephrase what I said...
The difference between auto and manual is around 5%
Manual has close to 15% loss, and auto has close to 20%

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Old 09-06-2014, 09:24 AM   #59
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10-15% is a huge difference in power between an auto and manual.

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Old 09-06-2014, 10:33 AM   #60
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....

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Old 09-06-2014, 11:19 AM   #61
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Allow me to rephrase what I said...
The difference between auto and manual is around 5%
Manual has close to 15% loss, and auto has close to 20%

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Yes that is what I was trying to explain and what Sakib hopped in and explained so well.
Same thing we were saying, just lost in translation.

14mustang.... what? Read the posts plz.
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:22 AM   #62
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10-15% is a huge difference in power between an auto and manual.

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This is completely incorrect.

On average, an automatic car loses 15 - 20% of it's crank rated power getting to the ground. A manual loses 10 - 15% of it's crank rated power getting it to the ground. The difference is likely to be around 5%.

That is why generally, a stock automatic will dyno somewhere around 245 rwhp + or - 10 rwhp, typically. A stock manual car will dyno around 260 rwhp again + or - 10 rwhp.

Not all dyno's are calibrated the same and not all dyno's are the same. So going from a Dynojet to a Mustang dyno can give you vastly different numbers. I have witnessed people getting pissed because they missed whatever number they were shooting for. Then they drive across town and magically they gain 30 rwhp on a different dyno. All because of two different dynos with different calibrations and different ways of measuring the power.

A dyno is a tuning tool. Don't get caught up in the numbers.

Here is a video showing how easily dyno numbers can manipulated -





If you want to know how much power your car has, run it at the strip. Generally a 280 - 300 rwhp 3.7 should trap around 104 - 107 mph, with a 1500 or less DA and a decent driver.
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:41 AM   #63
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Hate to be "that guy", but those dyno numbers don't mean much if you can't get it to the pavement or don't understand how to handle that power efficiently without ham fisting shifts or blowing your tires off.

Time spent there would be more beneficial than theory crafting dyno numbers.

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Read this, good info in that thread

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforu...rtia-dyno.html

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Old 09-07-2014, 06:47 AM   #64
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There was a delay in my posting. Internet is not perfect

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Old 09-07-2014, 03:17 PM   #65
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I know numbers aren't everything but 275 is alot less than 300ish. Especially when talking about tq. I want tq more than hp because that's what's needed on the low side of the power band. Which I stated earlier. So I do read the posts. I started the thread and have been following all of it. Also, the hp and tq difference between an auto and manual could easily be the difference in the dyno numbers. Yes the curve of the power band needs to be smooth and not edgy with a high soule at the end. Most tuners that are worth a crap (u get what you pay for) know this and do there jobs well. A car making 297 rwhp set the naturally aspirated v6 record at the track running a 12.7. So having that power is perfect for tracking and would be better than 275 rwhp every day. The while point of getting about 300 rwhp and close to 300 rwtq is because it makes these cars nasty and very quick. I am not seeking advice on a self tune I am trying to do
I am not a tuner. Just mechanical.

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Old 09-07-2014, 03:30 PM   #66
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The N/A record is held by smokingstanley92 who ran a 12.59 he is an automatic car.

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

FFM 3.7L V6 Mile Drag times & Dyno #'s - Page 14 - Drag Racing - FastFordMuscle.com

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------

FFM 3.7L V6 Mile Drag times & Dyno #'s - Page 14 - Drag Racing - FastFordMuscle.com
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:44 PM   #67
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With a stall comverter, a bigger gear ratio in the rear. Far from what I am talking about regards to this thread. The manuals have much better times that the autos. The auto in the mustang is a slush box. Get it tuned and it's a little better. All those times that were under 12.7 had no pictures of the slips either. Just word of mouth that it happened. Not saying it's bs but there is no solid proof

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Old 09-07-2014, 03:45 PM   #68
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Actually is a lower gear not a "bigger" one.

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Old 09-07-2014, 03:45 PM   #69
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But this thread is stupid at this point and should be closed anyways. Rapinator answered my question well

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Old 09-07-2014, 03:47 PM   #70
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Higher # is lower the actual gear is.

Just thought I throw that in there. It can be confusing lol

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