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Old 09-11-2014, 11:28 AM   #36
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I'm wondering if something is just being misunderstood somewhere? You could log G/s to see if the motor is physically pulling more air in, Na motors like large amounts of overlap, because of those pressure zones i explained earlier. When the exhaust pulse is pulling a vacuum on the cylinder to excavate the exhaust gases, and both valves are open (overlap) you will also be pulling fresh intake air into the cylinder (Which would be registered at the MAF).

I talked with my tuner about this, and we added a few more degrees to the exhaust cam when i added my shorty headers (AED tuned 5.0). The principle should be the same as with a mid pipe, but as long as you are seeing G/s increase, the motor is pulling in more air and making more power. The tuners also likely have VAST amounts of dyno experience and have a ball park they like to start every car at, hence, when they say things are covered in the "Base tune."
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:31 AM   #37
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The easiest way to find a difference would be in the low end torque. I can datalog My Gfs v6 tonight, maybe 2000-4000 rpms in 3rd, and look at the commanded cam advance for both cams. If someone can get me an identical log from a stock tune car we can see the differences there.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:34 PM   #38
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Ok, i got two logs tonight from ~2000 to ~4500 in 3rd on my GFs car. 1 log with the stock tune, and one with the MPT. This doesn't show any adjustments being made for a catless mid pipe, which i know was the initial point of the discussion, but i suppose it is a starting point.

Also, i am having some trouble getting excel to behave how i want it to and was wondering if someone could give me a hand? I am trying to make the X-axis of a graph "RPMs" and make the Y-axis "load," so it would be representative of how most tables are set up in a tune (on a load vs rpm axis) and we can quickly and easily compare the changes. With the rpm and load on the axis' we can plot cam advance / ******, as well as spark advance and see what changes are being made for the tunes. As soon as i (or someone) can get this data in a displayable format i'll be sure to get it posted.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Ok, i got two logs tonight from ~2000 to ~4500 in 3rd on my GFs car. 1 log with the stock tune, and one with the MPT. This doesn't show any adjustments being made for a catless mid pipe, which i know was the initial point of the discussion, but i suppose it is a starting point.

Also, i am having some trouble getting excel to behave how i want it to and was wondering if someone could give me a hand? I am trying to make the X-axis of a graph "RPMs" and make the Y-axis "load," so it would be representative of how most tables are set up in a tune (on a load vs rpm axis) and we can quickly and easily compare the changes. With the rpm and load on the axis' we can plot cam advance / ******, as well as spark advance and see what changes are being made for the tunes. As soon as i (or someone) can get this data in a displayable format i'll be sure to get it posted.


You can send it to me (you already have my email). But I'm leaving tomorrow and arriving Saturday, so I probably won't get to it until Sunday. If someone else can do it before then, then please volunteer.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:41 AM   #40
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Honestly from what I've experienced with off road x/y pipes and catted ones unless your making a lot of power modern factory/ aftermarket cats will not hinder performance. Now take a cat from 20-30 years ago and you may see a difference.

From what I've read the main reason why people go with catless pipes is for 1 of 2 reasons. Either 1 they like the sound or 2 they dont want to fork over the extra money for aftermarket cats when upgrading their exhaust.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:15 AM   #41
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You can send it to me (you already have my email). But I'm leaving tomorrow and arriving Saturday, so I probably won't get to it until Sunday. If someone else can do it before then, then please volunteer.

You the man, i'll send them this afternoon. I can do a great many things in excel, but graphs does not seem to be one of them haha. I doubt this thread will get much traffic over the weekend, so do your thing man.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:49 PM   #42
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I'd be happy to help out, are you trying to recreate tables for spark and cam timing based on RPM and load?
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:56 PM   #43
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So if I get the catless x pipe....I need to get the car dyno tuned for premium results and not use a canned tune?

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Old 09-12-2014, 08:21 PM   #44
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You'll be spending $400 + for 5-10 HP lol

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Old 09-12-2014, 08:22 PM   #45
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The catless x pipe is 250 and the tune is 300 but wouldn't the pro tune on a dyno be better than the canned tune in many ways other than just hp?

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Old 09-12-2014, 08:50 PM   #46
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I'd be happy to help out, are you trying to recreate tables for spark and cam timing based on RPM and load?



Yes, I suppose the Y axis would essentially need 2 "axis." One for load, and the other for the cam and / or spark values. Basically, most of the tables in a tune are designed on a load vs rpm grid, I figured that would be the best way to be able to easily see and interpret the data. Unfortunately, that seems to be beyond what I can do in excel haha.

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The catless x pipe is 250 and the tune is 300 but wouldn't the pro tune on a dyno be better than the canned tune in many ways other than just hp?

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There is no point to pay for a dyno tune for a minor bolt on v6, and email tune will be just fine.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:13 PM   #47
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Even a full bolt on engine wouldn't benefit from a dyno tune?

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Old 09-12-2014, 10:27 PM   #48
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Even a full bolt on engine wouldn't benefit from a dyno tune?

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Depends on the extent to your mods.
I have a dyno tune.

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Old 09-13-2014, 10:37 AM   #49
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I just though a dyno tune was always the best route. I have an 80mm throttle body, bbk headers, steeda intake, driveshaft, soon to be catless xpipe. Would a dyno tune be a waste with those mods?

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Old 09-13-2014, 12:48 PM   #50
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I just though a dyno tune was always the best route. I have an 80mm throttle body, bbk headers, steeda intake, driveshaft, soon to be catless xpipe. Would a dyno tune be a waste with those mods?

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I wouldn't say waste of money, but benefit to cost ratio would be munjal here. I'd suggest doing 3-4 datalogs, and send it to mpt to nail a custom tune down specific to your car. Do it a few times till you're satisfied with your tune, I'm sure it wouldn't take long

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Old 09-13-2014, 12:58 PM   #51
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^^ this. Your mods are nothing special, its nothing they haven't seen 100 times.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:06 PM   #52
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How do you data log with an sct x3

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Old 09-13-2014, 01:48 PM   #53
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How do you data log with an sct x3

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Email mpt to send you a configuration file ( it is a list of PIDs aka engine parameters), load up it on SCT live wire on your computer, connect sct to OBD and through USB to your computer. Begin logging. This is just a quick run down, your email will have detailed instructions.

They will ask you to log a few WOT pulls and such. To go with that, I'd also suggest doing few street logs - (mellow acceleration/driving the way you usually drive everyday) since this is how you'd be using your car majority of time. It will help your tuner to make a tune that will complement your driving habits.

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