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Old 09-09-2014, 09:03 PM   #1
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Catless xpipe pros and cons?

What's the good or bad going wi th catless x pipes?

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Old 09-09-2014, 09:45 PM   #2
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There are a million diffrent threads on this bud..

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Old 09-09-2014, 09:50 PM   #3
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Just please stop putting a "s" on x - pipe.

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Old 09-09-2014, 09:59 PM   #4
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What's worse Rap, "x-pipes" or "axlebacks"
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabberBlue1993 View Post
What's worse Rap, "x-pipes" or "axlebacks"
Lmao, if If i had to choose the one that drives me nuts, it would be " x-pipes"
But " axlebacks" is a close secound.

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Old 09-10-2014, 04:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post
Lmao, if If i had to choose the one that drives me nuts, it would be " x-pipes"
But " axlebacks" is a close secound.

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Old 09-10-2014, 04:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14mustang View Post
What's the good or bad going wi th catless x pipes?

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As opposed to what other setup? Is it going to be coupled with shorty or lt headers, or stock manifolds? Does your state require emissions testing? If you wish for us to give you a detailed answer, we need a bit more info on your plans. Or you can do as one member said and find one of the many of threads about exhaust. They're out there. ME Forum Search
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:20 AM   #8
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Sorry question was very broad. I have no emissions so that isn't an issue. The pros and cons is in reference to if it causes any damage due to lack of back pressure or other reasons. Is the x pipe a good choice over the catted x pipe performance wise?

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Old 09-10-2014, 08:00 AM   #9
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Don't worry about back pressure.

The one thing a cat-less x-pipe is going to do is make your exhaust sound hella raspy. That's the biggest turnoff for me.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:28 AM   #10
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Didnt realize lack of back pressure was ever an issue.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post
Just please stop putting a "s" on x - pipe.

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I was just going to be a smart *** lol, but turns out "x-pipes" actually is a thing? ... kinda
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:48 AM   #12
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Cons are it's sounds raspy(but also depends on the rest of the set up) , it leaves a smell (some actually like it). And depending on where you are it won't pass inspections.

Pro are more hp out of the x pipe over a catted pipe.


As for rasp it won't sound that bad as some May make it seem. Now it you add headers remover resonator and muffler delete then you would have the nastiest sounding mustang.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:14 AM   #13
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Older engines it was always a bad thing to have no back pressure. That's why I asked.

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Old 09-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #14
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Thats actually a myth, back pressure doesnt make torque, airspeed velocity does. Typically a smaller pipe will have allow a higher velocity, and therefore create more low end power (torque) at the expense of choking flow at the top end. Go to a larger pipe and velocity suffers, but top end flow is improved.

With the ability to tune the cams on these engines however, you do not really see that, and you will only gain power by opening up the exhaust. It really is some pretty clever technology.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Thats actually a myth, back pressure doesnt make torque, airspeed velocity does. Typically a smaller pipe will have allow a higher velocity, and therefore create more low end power (torque) at the expense of choking flow at the top end. Go to a larger pipe and velocity suffers, but top end flow is improved.

With the ability to tune the cams on these engines however, you do not really see that, and you will only gain power by opening up the exhaust. It really is some pretty clever technology.

This.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:32 AM   #16
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For me the biggest con is rasp.

Ive never really noticed any thing special about mid pipes. If you get one in a catback, great. Would I just replace the mid pipe, probably not unless I got a real good deal on one.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:45 AM   #17
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Wow cool. Thanks for the info on the flow. so catless it is. Anyone done catless with stock muffler or any gains ditching the stock mufflers and going with a brand name.

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Old 09-10-2014, 11:47 AM   #18
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I had that set up and it was a perfect sound not to raspy.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:48 AM   #19
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Nice. Does a full exhaust system add performance or is it just the x pipe and headers that matter on this engine?

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Old 09-10-2014, 11:52 AM   #20
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The mufflers are not going to add any hp. The only time you will notice a difference is when you get well over 800hp and will need a straight through muffler.

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Old 09-10-2014, 11:53 AM   #21
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I figured as much.

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Old 09-10-2014, 12:00 PM   #22
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Just header and x or h pipe does the difference. The 3 inch the rest is sound
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:06 PM   #23
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Ok cool. Thanks everyone.

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Old 09-10-2014, 12:12 PM   #24
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Just header and x or h pipe does the difference. The 3 inch the rest is sound
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:18 PM   #25
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Hey if you are interested in what Voltwings was saying about back pressure and velocity, here is an excellent write-up on the topic: Myths about "back-pressure"
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:20 PM   #26
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Ok cool I will read that.

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Old 09-10-2014, 02:58 PM   #27
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Altering the stock x-pipe will do two things:

1) Increase volume/rasp and top end power (the resonators attached to the x-pipe are very restrictive)
2) decrease low end power

The VVT in our cars for a given tune does not change if you change the x-pipe, and power below 3000rpm is greatly diminished. If you don't care about anything under 3000rpm, by all means change out the x-pipe.

A simple test I ran is I set my rev limiter to 3000rpm around town. With the the aftermarket pipe I had a lot of trouble getting up to the speed limit. With the stock x-pipe I had no trouble whatsoever. That said, the "feel" of the aftermarket pipes when going wide open "feels" significantly better.
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:31 PM   #28
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Ok do what about an x ouoe with high flow cats and full exhaust? Ă—same loss in low end and what would the high end loss be with cats over catless

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Old 09-10-2014, 03:33 PM   #29
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On a phone with a broken screen so spelling errors are hapoening.

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Old 09-11-2014, 08:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveWire003 View Post
Altering the stock x-pipe will do two things:

1) Increase volume/rasp and top end power (the resonators attached to the x-pipe are very restrictive)
2) decrease low end power

The VVT in our cars for a given tune does not change if you change the x-pipe, and power below 3000rpm is greatly diminished. If you don't care about anything under 3000rpm, by all means change out the x-pipe.

A simple test I ran is I set my rev limiter to 3000rpm around town. With the the aftermarket pipe I had a lot of trouble getting up to the speed limit. With the stock x-pipe I had no trouble whatsoever. That said, the "feel" of the aftermarket pipes when going wide open "feels" significantly better.

So you ran the test using the same tune? That's your problem, exhaust gas pulses are very sensitive to timing events, which is why you need a re tune to optimize them. Clever in theory, but your testing is flawed.

I'll elaborate. When the exhaust gas leaves one cylinder, it basically is in a high pressure zone until it reaches the collector, which is a low pressure zone. When you have opposing pressure zones, the pressure tends to move from high to low, and will actually travel back up an adjacent runner of a cylinder that hasn't fired yet. This pressure zone will then hit the closed exhaust valve of that cylinder and start moving back down the runner towards the collector again. If these events are timed properly, the pressure wave will be moving away as the exhaust valve is opening, and that pressure wave will actively pull a vacuum on the cylinder (this is where the term "tuned length headers" comes from), and evacuate the spent exhaust gases much more efficiently.
The beauty of the Ti-vct, is that we can control when those events occur, and optimize a given set up. If you change the exhaust without changing those timing events, you can see how the pressure waves would not be arriving at the proper time to adequately scavenge the cylinders; hence, your perceived loss of low end.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:30 AM   #31
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I want to agree with you Volt, but the fact of the matter is that tuning companies are NOT changing tunes other than turning off the rear O2 sensors.

Unfortunately I have not data logged during these tests to compare to my current tune which has been revised extensively to actually see if the VVT has been adjusted at all. Just going on word of mouth that the only changes that are done when going from stock to aftermarket midpipe is the state of the rear O2 sensors.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:49 AM   #32
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Then what's the point of the tune? That's where probably 75% of the power comes from on these cars, so i'm going to have to disagree with that.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:45 AM   #33
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Bigger question would be what's the point of VVT if the tuning companies aren't applying that first V. Maybe what LiveWire is saying is that the tuning companies have not yet played with VVT to tune specifically for mid pipes yet? Or are you saying they don't adjust valve timing at all, in any tunes? I would find the latter hard to believe, as well. But the former, I can see that.

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Old 09-11-2014, 10:52 AM   #34
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Look Volt, I agree with everything you are saying and an argument is not what I want, just a flow of correct information.

Bama, MPT, AED (I need to verify this one, heard from a fellow 5.0 member) have stated all they change for a midpipe, is the rear O2. Everything else is taken care of in the base tune.

To which I must wonder, when datalogging, what variable would you tune the VVT against to see if it is optimal or not?
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #35
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Look Volt, I agree with everything you are saying and an argument is not what I want, just a flow of correct information.

Bama, MPT, AED (I need to verify this one, heard from a fellow 5.0 member) have stated all they change for a midpipe, is the rear O2. Everything else is taken care of in the base tune.

To which I must wonder, when datalogging, what variable would you tune the VVT against to see if it is optimal or not?
Yeah so you are saying what I thought, that they do adjust VVT in the base tune but not for mid pipes. Makes a lot of sense. Which we all agree is not ideal because the mid pipes should be tuned for pressure harmonics. There is no argument.

For your question, just a total blind guess here, what do you think about tuning it against back pressure? I've never tuned so I have no clue, but Voltwings has so maybe this will get the ball rolling for discussion.

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