Dyno results: MPT vs BAMA vs Stock vs Stock with fuse 47 pull - Mustang Evolution

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Old 10-04-2014, 02:24 PM   #1
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Dyno results: MPT vs BAMA vs Stock vs Stock with fuse 47 pull

Hey felahs, I have dyno date in a few hours. I'm going to do 4 dyno pulls including stock tune AFTER fuse 47 pull. There is lot of hazy information out there when it comes to having an improved throttle response on manuals, after you pull fuse 47 out for a bit. Hopefully the numbers/graph would shed some light on it.

Also, any tips or ideas? Which tunes should I datalog first? I asked the guy if i could get raw data, to go with graphs. He goes uhh we don't do data logging for the price of base pulls and would have to charge you extra? Maybe I was mistaken/didn't put it right, what does it mean by raw data? What parameters do I need?

Current mods:
Performance package
Bama 91R beta tune
MPT 87 Performance (doesn't feel like a 87 honestly)
Air raid CAI
GT500 mufflers with resonator deletes
GT500 front grill
SR short shifter with bracket
Plastidipped rims
MMD hood struts
5000k D3S and H9 HIDS

Mods waiting to go on :

BMR LCAs with brackets
CHE UCA with mount
SR springs
J&M adjustable panhard bar
Camber bolts
Stainless steel brake lines
High performance DOT 4 brake fluid
EBC Ultimax slotted rotors
Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads
SR braided hydraulic clutch line
GT500 spoiler

Mods to come

GT500 front end
Underhood dress up
Micky Thompson ET streets
Drift wheels
Turbo kit
Forged rotating assembly
Borla Stingers or Dual Shelby mufflers
2.75' over axle pipes
Interior upholstery
Custom 'Punisher' edition look

Stay tuned

EDIT: all graphs have been added to this original post now. For comparison sake, I have tried to point out HP and TQ under the curve. X at the bottom represents RPM X 1000. My own graphs are reading 1 less HP and TQ than what I have posted below in this thread.

MPT 87P and BAMA 91R beta tune are on par with each other.. difference in HP and TQ under the curve at various RPM is mere decimals!


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Old 10-04-2014, 04:01 PM   #2
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A Bama 91R vs the MPT 87P isn't a fair comparison though.

That's apples to oranges.


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Old 10-04-2014, 04:37 PM   #3
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About time

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Old 10-04-2014, 04:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
Hey felahs, I have dyno date in a few hours. I'm going to do 4 dyno pulls including stock tune AFTER fuse 47 pull. There is lot of hazy information out there when it comes to having an improved throttle response on manuals, after you pull fuse 47 out for a bit. Hopefully the numbers/graph would shed some light on it.

Also, any tips or ideas? Which tunes should I datalog first? I asked the guy if i could get raw data, to go with graphs. He goes uhh we don't do data logging for the price of base pulls and would have to charge you extra? Maybe I was mistaken/didn't put it right, what does it mean by raw data? What parameters do I need?

Current mods:
Performance package
Bama 91R beta tune
MPT 87 Performance (doesn't feel like a 87 honestly)
Air raid CAI
GT500 mufflers with resonator deletes
GT500 front grill
SR short shifter with bracket
Plastidipped rims
MMD hood struts
5000k D3S and H9 HIDS

Mods to come:
BMR LCAs with brackets
CHE UCA with mount
SR springs
J&M adjustable panhard bar
Camber bolts
Stainless steel brake lines
High performance DOT 4 brake fluid
EBC Ultimax slotted rotors
Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads
SR braided hydraulic clutch line
GT500 spoiler
GT500 front end
Underhood dress up
Micky Thompson ET streets
Drift wheels
Turbo kit
Forged rotating assembly
Borla Stingers or Dual Shelby mufflers
2.75' over axle pipes
Interior upholstery
Custom 'Punisher' edition look

Stay tuned

|| ~BlackOnBlack~ ||
Sorry bro but your dyno test doesn't mean anything. 91 race tune to 87 tune is not a fair comparison. Your test will reveal nothing important to anyone here but maybe in your mind it will.

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:09 PM   #5
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Bro that's all I have on me.. MPT wants to charge me extra bucks for a 91 tune. Theoratically speaking, there should be some difference in number between 87 and 91 from both companies. But let's see

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Old 10-04-2014, 05:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
Bro that's all I have on me.. MPT wants to charge me extra bucks for a 91 tune. Theoratically speaking, there should be some difference in number between 87 and 91 from both companies. But let's see

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MPT won't make you same tune with just 91 tune at no charge. Wow.

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:52 PM   #7
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Regardless of it being a valid comparison, I'd still be interested in the numbers.

Make sure to note the weather conditions too.


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Old 10-04-2014, 06:01 PM   #8
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I'd like to know too what if the 87 Mpt come up on top

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Old 10-04-2014, 06:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 14mustang v6 View Post
I'd like to know too what if the 87 Mpt come up on top

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I'd be willing to bet it won't.


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Old 10-04-2014, 06:46 PM   #10
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Alright guys just got home.. numbers are pretty close - within 3 ish hp from each other. But the key thing to note is power gains 'under the curve.'

Here's a quick run down, I'm going on my computer to make a bunch of graphs over layed on each other for comparisons sake. Pulls were done in 4th gear on a dynojet

MPT: 280.79/269.58 (afr 12.52) rev limiter was set at about 7200

Bama 91R: 281.82/268.26 (afr 13.1) rev limiter at 6300

Stock: 277/264.26 (afr 12.88) rev limiter was set at 5800 by ford WTF!!!

Stock after fuse 47 pull: 279.34/264.26 (afr 13.4)

Conditions: 75-78F (across runs), humidity: 35-40. Maybe graphs will give you a better idea

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---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

Bama 91R after fuse 47 pull: 280.73/269.78

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Old 10-04-2014, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
MPT won't make you same tune with just 91 tune at no charge. Wow.

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
Yup! Just a day after i got my 87 tune, I had a long chat with Ken to see if he can make me same 91 tune. He goes you will have to pay for it since they have to make an entirely new tune for 91 octane..

If this wasn't the case, you would have been watching Bama 91 vs mpt 91 on this thread. Ahhhh!!

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Old 10-04-2014, 07:12 PM   #12
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So did you use the same fuel with the MPT tune assuming you had to run 91 octane on a 87 octane tune?
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:27 PM   #13
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Yup 91 fuel.. All runs were made between 2:25 and 3:30pm

All right I'm on dyno jets software and have loaded a few graphs. Just so you guys know these are reading 1 less hp and torque than what it read on that guys computer

Here's the print showing 280.xx for mpt. My own graph are going to read 279.xx

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Old 10-04-2014, 07:44 PM   #14
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Stock vs after fuse 47 pull: you actually lose power under the curve, as per dyno results. Now why does it feel a lot of smoother and quick after you pull fuse 47, its beyond my expertise
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:55 PM   #15
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MPT vs stock: There's about 13hp and 11 lb/feet difference at 3642 rpm
Bama 91 vs stock: Same as MPT at 3643 rpm

BAMA 91 vs MPT: These are pretty much neck to neck, with difference being just in 'decimals!!!' I am actually quite surprised, I was hoping to see BAMA's 91 have at least 5-7hp under the curve advantage over MPT 87.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:00 PM   #16
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Heres BAMA 91 vs MPT 87 at 3642, 4000, 5000, 6000
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:48 PM   #17
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Dyno results: MPT vs BAMA vs Stock vs Stock with fuse 47 pull

I'm actually really surprised that a Bama 91 and MPT 87 are that close.

Nice work on getting their posted up.


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Old 10-04-2014, 09:03 PM   #18
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Yee I'm actually surprised, well not really. I knew my MPT 87 base tune was on par if not ahead (there are days when it edges out tbh.. damn adaptive learning!!). These numbers are speaking foe themselves now

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Old 10-04-2014, 09:12 PM   #19
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Heres BAMA 91 vs MPT 87 at 3642, 4000, 5000, 6000
Those apples sure look a lot like oranges!
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:33 PM   #20
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Mhmm..

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Old 10-04-2014, 09:55 PM   #21
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Notice that the gains are only up to 4500, after that they nearly mirror stock. $399 for a tuner that only gives power from 3-4500 doesn't sound like such a good deal. Think about it, after the launch, you are never seeing the gains from the tuner because your RPM never dip back down below 4.5k during WOT. However, the improvement in shifting with the automatics is well worth the price.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:32 PM   #22
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The pulls are made in gear 4, hence the graphs show data from around 3k and not from 0. As I had pointed out before, gains under the curve are more important than peak numbers. If it was an auto, I'm pretty sure the data would have been much more explanatory for power down low.

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Old 10-05-2014, 06:58 AM   #23
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Great to see some real numbers...... thanks for the write up!
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:38 AM   #24
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1. The timing components on these cars are very clever. Depending on the threshold your tuner allows, the computer will actually add timing up to the point it registers knock, and then start to back off. Having 91 octane on an 87 tune, will basically allow it to add timing similar to it being a 91 octane tune. The BASE map is still designed to run on 87, and it is NOT the same as a true 91 octane tune, but it explains why the numbers are so close. MPT has my Gfs car on a "91" octane tune, and when i mentioned we have 93 and sent some logs from the track, he said everything looked so good they did not want to push it. This leads me to believe MPT tunes a little more conservatively, but allows the computer to add timing as it sees fit to make up some of the power.

2. The car is designed to run on 87 from the factory, which is why the tunes show such little gains other than down low torque, a real tune should be done on 93 (assuming it is available) and that is where you will see major gains.

3. Rpms make the powerband. Having 1000 extra RPM from the MPT tune would make it substantially faster than the Bama tune, despite the peak numbers being close, because you will already be closer to the meat of your powerband after a shift. Area under the curve > Peak numbers.

4. Was AFR measured at the tailpipe? Typically AFR will read .5 LEANER due to this placement so those are not true readings, however, they should all be consistently off so it is easy to compare. This again leads me to believe MPT is the safest tune (with the richest AFR / timing i mentioned earlier) and they use the motors RPM capability to make power. I feel that's good, Lean is mean and makes more power, but a richer AFR + a motor that loves RPMs is a better and safer means of power delivery in my book.

After seeing how this 3.7 motor holds power out to 7k+ on a few MPT tunes now, i would love to see someone with headers and cat delete spin one past 7500 rpm. If this motor is built anything like the coyote it can handle it, and i bet you see a wicked Boss-esque power band. I really feel confident about having an MPT tune on my GF's car after this thread, and thanks for gathering all the useful info. There really is a lot here if you can dig through it.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:40 AM   #25
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Here is my dyno sheet from my MPT vs Bama hybrid vs Steeda and all 91 octane tunes but my car had 93 fuel in it. I think it was taken up to 7200,rpms and locked in 3rd gear. Mine is an automatic..

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:54 AM   #26
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. Hard to find real torque readings since its kind of bumpy down low, but looks like its a wash between MPT and Steeda, but Bama is lower throughout the entire curve by far.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again because its exactly what i did on my car. Start with Bama while you're modding because its free, then when you're done, get your final tune from someone else. Makes the most financial sense to me.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:29 AM   #27
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. Hard to find real torque readings since its kind of bumpy down low, but looks like its a wash between MPT and Steeda, but Bama is lower throughout the entire curve by far.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again because its exactly what i did on my car. Start with Bama while you're modding because its free, then when you're done, get your final tune from someone else. Makes the most financial sense to me.
Your right torque wise MPT and Steeda were real close.

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:03 PM   #28
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Thanks for this Bazinga.

I find this helpful mostly from the perspective of someone who might want some to see some power gains without necessarily having to up the octane rating of the fuel I purchase.

If I can get roughly the same gain as a Bama 91 tune, using the MPT 87 and not having to buy more costly fuel on my day-to-day, that sounds like a win. Granted I'm not looking for max-possible gains, but a balance of more power for less cost. I love apples AND oranges...

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Old 10-06-2014, 01:14 PM   #29
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Thanks for this Bazinga.

I find this helpful mostly from the perspective of someone who might want some to see some power gains without necessarily having to up the octane rating of the fuel I purchase.

If I can get roughly the same gain as a Bama 91 tune, using the MPT 87 and not having to buy more costly fuel on my day-to-day, that sounds like a win. Granted I'm not looking for max-possible gains, but a balance of more power for less cost. I love apples AND oranges...

I think you misunderstood. The MPT 87 tune only matched the 87 bama tune because 91 octane was being used. On 87, the MPT tune would likely not have been as close to the Bama numbers*.

*Assuming i am right about how they address the timing tables. I am making certain assumptions here, and this should not be taken strictly as fact.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:33 PM   #30
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I think you misunderstood. The MPT 87 tune only matched the 87 bama tune because 91 octane was being used. On 87, the MPT tune would likely not have been as close to the Bama numbers*.

*Assuming i am right about how they address the timing tables. I am making certain assumptions here, and this should not be taken strictly as fact.

This.

If you'd used 91 octane fuel with the Bama tune and 87 octane fuel in the MPT tune there would be a difference. I'm sure of it.


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Old 10-06-2014, 01:39 PM   #31
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Aha! I missed the part where the fuel was the same, thanks for that.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:42 PM   #32
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Aha! I missed the part where the fuel was the same, thanks for that.
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Old 10-06-2014, 02:37 PM   #33
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So how would stock tune on 93 octane compare to 87P or 91R, with fuel correctly matching each tune? Seems to me, you might get more performance (or at least equal) with a stock tune and 93 octane than you would with 87P using 87 octane. Of course only in a "manual V6's", as original poster used. With an auto, any tune will be a performance upgrade.
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Old 10-06-2014, 02:41 PM   #34
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Dyno results: MPT vs BAMA vs Stock vs Stock with fuse 47 pull

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14mayhem View Post
So how would stock tune on 93 octane compare to 87P or 91R, with fuel correctly matching each tune? Seems to me, you might get more performance (or at least equal) with a stock tune and 93 octane than you would with 87P using 87 octane. Of course only in a "manual V6's", as original poster used. With an auto, any tune will be a performance upgrade.
I'm going to try and find the video of this.

On a stock tune with 93 octane, it puts down between 6-8 more horsepower. I forget the exact number though.


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Old 10-06-2014, 02:42 PM   #35
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That would still depend on cam timing and how large the stock tune's threshold to add timing is. All else equal, a stock car with 93 will out perform one with 87, but it will likely not be the same as a full on tune. Hard to say though, as you raise a valid point.
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