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Old 10-08-2014, 01:07 AM   #36
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Those probably wouldn't pass smog in California, huh? I want high flow cats, but they're crazy expensive in CA.


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Old 10-08-2014, 05:59 AM   #37
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Hello and you think with resonator instead of the Flowmaster can help to have less. Raspy sound ?


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Old 10-08-2014, 07:52 AM   #38
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What about aftermarket?
Like high flowing catted mid pipe? Definitely more power than the factory cats

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash and the moderators are complete toolbags. TMS, Go F yourselves!
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:33 AM   #39
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I'm going with the high flow cats and keeping stock resonaters. I think that will help with the sound.

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Old 10-08-2014, 09:36 AM   #40
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Most of the gains from a mid pipe come from both deleting the cats, as well as the resonators, and increasing the pipe diameter. I think you're going to end up spending a lot of money on that route and not have a lot to show for it, especially since you have to cut / weld the new Cats in.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:39 AM   #41
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With the exhaust mods Im more about sound. All of this plus ported intake mani should get me to 300

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Old 10-08-2014, 09:42 AM   #42
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In that case i'd honestly just do shorty headers and leave the factory cats. If you're unhappy with that, then i'd do the Hi-flow cats, but i feel that may be more cost effective, as well as getting you closer to that 300 whp goal.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:45 AM   #43
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So shorties, frpp x pipe, ported intake mani, 2.5 cat-back, CAI, 93 race tune, throttle body, and driveshaft.

What ball park am I in?

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Old 10-08-2014, 09:48 AM   #44
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Again, depends on the dyno lol. With no baseline its hard to say, but i can confidently say: Significantly faster than stock. I'd have you trapping about 105-107 if i had to guess... hard to tell since you're still on the 2.73s, but my Gfs auto was trapping 102 with just intake / tune / 3.73s
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:52 AM   #45
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Ordering 3.55s and all parts in 6 days. sorry forgot about that.

What is this trapping you speak of, only trapping Ive heard of has to do with either fish or drugzz lol

And is there any dynos that are more accurate than others.

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Old 10-08-2014, 10:03 AM   #46
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Ordering 3.55s and all parts in 6 days. sorry forgot about that.

What is this trapping you speak of, only trapping Ive heard of has to do with either fish or drugzz lol

And is there any dynos that are more accurate than others.

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Trap speed is that in which you're clocked when crossing (in this case) 1/4 mile line.

Most accurate dyno is the one you were on before you made any changes

You should care more about percentage increase of hp/tq then the actually too number.


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Old 10-08-2014, 10:04 AM   #47
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Ordering 3.55s and all parts in 6 days. sorry forgot about that.

What is this trapping you speak of, only trapping Ive heard of has to do with either fish or drugzz lol

And is there any dynos that are more accurate than others.

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Lol trap speed is the speed that you're going at the end of a 1/4 mile run.

So volt is estimating you'll achieve 105-107 MPH trap speeds with those mods.
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:07 AM   #48
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Haha gotchya.
So really a dyno is only to determine gains but only if you keep using the same dyno

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Old 10-08-2014, 10:14 AM   #49
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Haha gotchya.
So really a dyno is only to determine gains but only if you keep using the same dyno

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Honestly, I feel like if you want some tangible evidence of performance, go to the track.

It's way more fun and a lot cheaper.

You bought the car to go fast. Not to see what you could throw down on a dyno.
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:19 AM   #50
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The point of a dyno is to track gains, but for me I mostly prefer to see my curve. You can learn a lot about your car and how it makes power by studying a dyno curve. I agree though, take it to the track, and for $20 its a pretty good starting point of how your car is performing.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:34 AM   #51
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Once I get some control arms I'll take her to the track, plus the gears and x pipe

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Old 10-08-2014, 12:44 PM   #52
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Those probably wouldn't pass smog in California, huh? I want high flow cats, but they're crazy expensive in CA.


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Absolutly will NOT pass Ca CARB emmissions. had a buddy last year get a REFEREE ticket and failed with high flow cats. he threw every stock part on except the cats and failed the visual because it "was not a factory OEM part" CA sucks when it comes to modding your car. Even with CARb certified parts you'll get flak for it from cops and Smog stations. You could always go the tuner route and find a guy who would be willing to "PASS" you....for a price.

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So shorties, frpp x pipe, ported intake mani, 2.5 cat-back, CAI, 93 race tune, throttle body, and driveshaft.

What ball park am I in?

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Not sure i would do a "cat-back".
1. they aren't even real "cat-backs" like a lot of the CAI that are sold for are cars are more of a short ram route and just suck in the air from inside the engine bay. they dont even have filters that sit in front of the air snorkle.
2.These cat backs are just over axel pipes with mufflers. a true cat-back would be a midpipe-over axels-mufflers. Now I could be 100% wrong but Ive been under the impression that changing your over axel pipes isn't going to do anything posative for you unless you go F/I (Procharger or Turbo). You'd most likely LOSE power. Again i could be wrong...

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Again, depends on the dyno lol. With no baseline its hard to say, but i can confidently say: Significantly faster than stock. I'd have you trapping about 105-107 if i had to guess... hard to tell since you're still on the 2.73s, but my Gfs auto was trapping 102 with just intake / tune / 3.73s
100% agree (I wish we had "LIKE"/ "DISLIKE" buttons on here lol) Power numbers dont mean squat. My buddy from high school had a Luxus IS350. Car comes with a 11.5-12:1 comp ratio 3.5L 305 hp engine and 4.08:1 rear end ratio with a 6 speed auto. 3 different times he co-workers manual M3 (2012). Stock for Stock. I was in the car 2 of those times. hwy roll 45-100mph beat him. Now comparing power to power the Lexus shouldnt have even been able to keep up but its 100% power to weight. Gears help adjust where the power is on the rpm range which in turn helps in acceleration. Higher the gear, the faster the acceleration but your top speed will drop. (this makes me want to switch from 3.31to 3.73s lol).
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #53
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Again, depends on the dyno lol. With no baseline its hard to say, but i can confidently say: Significantly faster than stock. I'd have you trapping about 105-107 if i had to guess... hard to tell since you're still on the 2.73s, but my Gfs auto was trapping 102 with just intake / tune / 3.73s
^^^this
Depends on the dyno
I put down 460whp, but compared to other dynos, my reading would have been low.
A stock 5.0 on the dyno I was on put down 340 (manual trans)
Average 5.0 puts down 370 whp
dynos are great for before/after comparrisions, but comparing different dynos in different conditions is not going to provide an accurate comparison of the cars

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:26 PM   #54
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That makes more sense. I'm just tryning to smoke v8s honestly. Numbers on a machine I guess aren't that important

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Old 10-08-2014, 09:36 PM   #55
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That makes more sense. I'm just tryning to smoke v8s honestly. Numbers on a machine I guess aren't that important

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Numbers on a machine are important when you do a baseline run, that way you have a baseline number, and you can track your results

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Old 10-08-2014, 10:33 PM   #56
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Should have done that from the beginning.
But I guess I could before the x pipe, headers, and ported mani.

I know somewhere thats not too expensive for 3 pulls
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:51 AM   #57
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something else i just thought of. you could always get higher compression pistons. I think MMR sells them. it's no simple bolt on but if you really want to make power N/A then thats one way. Not sure if anyone has done thins yet, i know a couple have had their cams reground but not sure how well it worked.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:06 AM   #58
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I've seen the forged kit on mmr or 4.0 stroker on supersix but what kind of gains would you expect? Is it worth the money? I do plan to but a lpf turbo kit in a year or two

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Old 10-09-2014, 10:20 AM   #59
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an increase in torque is proportional to an increase in displacement. Lets say you make 300 whp at 6500 rpms, that means you're making 242.5 wtq at 6500 rpms
Horsepower = (tq x rpm)/5252
and going from 3.7L to 4.0L is an 8% increase roughly. Flip the math back around, 242.5 *1.08 = 261.9. 262 wtq @ 6500 rpms now gives you about 324 whp all else equal.

Next, a 1 point increase in compression is worth about 4% increase in power, all else equal. Keep in mind, when changing compression and displacement, the effects will not compound exactly, so this is some ricer-esque math. 324 whp X 1.04 though gives you about 337 whp.

Now, heres my problem with all this. That is a LOT of money, for what is essentially 40 whp. Now, with the compression and displacement increases the car would be incredibly torquey, but 11.5:1 compression is just too much for pump gas i feel. This means youd basically need to run E85 or some sort of higher octane full time. It also assumes the other components in your build can flow enough to make use of the displacement and compression.


Look again at the horsepower formula: Hp = (Torque x rpm) / 5252 and tell me if you think it is easier to get horsepower by increasing torque, or by increasing rpms? If you can have power hold just 500 rpms longer, you will see substantially more power compared to trying to scavenge a couple of torques here and there. Allow the set up to breathe, and then spin the ***** as long as its making power. I wouldnt think twice about spinning this motor to 7500 rpms with the right supporting mods.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:49 AM   #60
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Now, heres my problem with all this. That is a LOT of money, for what is essentially 40 whp. Now, with the compression and displacement increases the car would be incredibly torquey, but 11.5:1 compression is just too much for pump gas i feel. This means youd basically need to run E85 or some sort of higher octane full time. It also assumes the other components in your build can flow enough to make use of the displacement and compression.
I know for a fact the Acura RSX Type S back in 2006 had a 12:1 comp ratio and spun up to 8k rpm on 91octane. Also the new 2015 Mustang GT (2015 Ford Mustang | View Full Engine Specifications | Ford.com)
has an 11:1 comp ratio (vs the V6's 10.5:1)and runs on 87 octane. Now to add an even more impressive feat. there is the Kia Cadenza. 3.3L V6, 12:1 comp ratio and runs on 87!


I think it is very doable with the right tune. you'd most likely have to get a dyno tune done right after install to prevent detonating. All in all it just a matter of do you want boost on stock internals/forged intyernals or do you want a high comp. bored N/A V6?
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:51 AM   #61
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Now, heres my problem with all this. That is a LOT of money, for what is essentially 40 whp. Now, with the compression and displacement increases the car would be incredibly torquey, but 11.5:1 compression is just too much for pump gas i feel. This means youd basically need to run E85 or some sort of higher octane full time. It also assumes the other components in your build can flow enough to make use of the displacement and compression.
I know for a fact the Acura RSX Type S back in 2006 had a 12:1 comp ratio and spun up to 8k rpm on 91octane. Also the new 2015 Mustang GT (2015 Ford Mustang | View Full Engine Specifications | Ford.com)
has an 11:1 comp ratio (vs the V6's 10.5:1)and runs on 87 octane. Now to add an even more impressive feat. there is the Kia Cadenza. 3.3L V6, 12:1 comp ratio and runs on 87!


I think it is very doable with the right tune. you'd most likely have to get a dyno tune done right after install to prevent detonating. All in all it just a matter of do you want boost on stock internals/forged intyernals or do you want a high comp. bored N/A V6?
Bazinga, if your going to install a turbo in the next year or two why dont you just pause the modding save up and then get the turbo sooner? HELL! start parting out your aftermarket mods and have even more money to get the turbo.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:00 AM   #62
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I believe the 2015 GT calls for 91 octane. I know for sure the ecoboost does.

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Old 10-09-2014, 11:04 AM   #63
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The Acura is impressive, no doubt about that, but the rest of your post is easily "argued" so to speak; though i prefer to view these more as discussions .

The Mazda skyactiv motors run a 14:1 compression ratio but its also direct injection, so that gives things an interesting twist. Compression however, is not the end all, be all of performance; its what you intend to do with it that really matters. you'll have an incredibly efficient engine either way, but are you going for MPG or horsepower?
Yes the GT has an 11:1 compression ratio and can run on 87 octane in stock and mildly bolted form, but who trying to make power is running 87? Maybe you could get by with a 11.5:1 compression motor on 93 pump gas, but its not going to accept timing very well, which defeats the whole purpose of bumping up in the first place.

This comparison is a bit apples to oranges because one is PI and the others are DI, but the majority of my point remains the same. The neon SRT-4 has a static compression ratio of 8.1:1, and they'll often run upwards of 32-34* of timing. The chevy cobalt SS turbo has a 9.1:1 and they'll only run about 24-26*. Mazdaspeed3 is 9.5:1 and you're not going past about 18-20* of timing ... Higher compression is less friendly to increases in cylinder pressure, but i agree, the whole point is moot. If going turbo, just do that on the stock motor.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:44 AM   #64
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I believe the 2015 GT calls for 91 octane. I know for sure the ecoboost does.

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Ya, i didnt see that. I was thinking it was the same as the 2012. Even the 13-14 i think requires or recommends premium 91 or 93
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The Acura is impressive, no doubt about that, but the rest of your post is easily "argued" so to speak; though i prefer to view these more as discussions .

The Mazda skyactiv motors run a 14:1 compression ratio but its also direct injection, so that gives things an interesting twist. Compression however, is not the end all, be all of performance; its what you intend to do with it that really matters. you'll have an incredibly efficient engine either way, but are you going for MPG or horsepower?
Yes the GT has an 11:1 compression ratio and can run on 87 octane in stock and mildly bolted form, but who trying to make power is running 87? Maybe you could get by with a 11.5:1 compression motor on 93 pump gas, but its not going to accept timing very well, which defeats the whole purpose of bumping up in the first place.

This comparison is a bit apples to oranges because one is PI and the others are DI, but the majority of my point remains the same. The neon SRT-4 has a static compression ratio of 8.1:1, and they'll often run upwards of 32-34* of timing. The chevy cobalt SS turbo has a 9.1:1 and they'll only run about 24-26*. Mazdaspeed3 is 9.5:1 and you're not going past about 18-20* of timing ... Higher compression is less friendly to increases in cylinder pressure, but i agree, the whole point is moot. If going turbo, just do that on the stock motor.
True, the Kia i mentioned before is a GDI engine (Gasoline Direct Injection) and i don't believe the timing is too high on the Acuras but Im not very sure.

I do see your point now. Given the 3.7 is running 10.5:1, runs on 87 and get 305 hp is primarily due to timing and a lot of it from what i gather. changing the compression may make things so delicate that you would need a much higher octane fuel to keep the timing benefits and even then your saying that its not worth while given the price to do such a job.

On another note then if you wanted to put boost on, getting forged internal at a lower comp ratio (9.5:1;8.5:1) would be much more beneficial to whoever is putting the money into the setup....right? lol
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:08 PM   #65
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Ya, i didnt see that. I was thinking it was the same as the 2012. Even the 13-14 i think requires or recommends premium 91 or 93


True, the Kia i mentioned before is a GDI engine (Gasoline Direct Injection) and i don't believe the timing is too high on the Acuras but Im not very sure.

I do see your point now. Given the 3.7 is running 10.5:1, runs on 87 and get 305 hp is primarily due to timing and a lot of it from what i gather. changing the compression may make things so delicate that you would need a much higher octane fuel to keep the timing benefits and even then your saying that its not worth while given the price to do such a job.

On another note then if you wanted to put boost on, getting forged internal at a lower comp ratio (9.5:1;8.5:1) would be much more beneficial to whoever is putting the money into the setup....right? lol

There is always a trade off. Higher compression will make more power and have better transient (off boost) response, but will be limited to what it can run in regards to both knock and keeping the head attached to the block. You're 100% correct though, typically big boost builds will go down to a 9.0:1 or 9.5:1 compression ratio.

For a street car i'd stick near stock compression, but if you're looking to break hearts and records then dropping it down is probably best
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:41 PM   #66
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I think turbo kit is the way to go. Wouldn't even mess with internals I don't think.

3k is a lot of money for 40 whp you are right.
Better off spending that on internals and nitrous kit

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Old 10-10-2014, 12:04 PM   #67
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I know for a fact the Acura RSX Type S back in 2006 had a 12:1 comp ratio and spun up to 8k rpm on 91octane. Also the new 2015 Mustang GT (2015 Ford Mustang | View Full Engine Specifications | Ford.com)
has an 11:1 comp ratio (vs the V6's 10.5:1)and runs on 87 octane. Now to add an even more impressive feat. there is the Kia Cadenza. 3.3L V6, 12:1 comp ratio and runs on 87!


I think it is very doable with the right tune. you'd most likely have to get a dyno tune done right after install to prevent detonating. All in all it just a matter of do you want boost on stock internals/forged intyernals or do you want a high comp. bored N/A V6?
Bazinga, if your going to install a turbo in the next year or two why dont you just pause the modding save up and then get the turbo sooner? HELL! start parting out your aftermarket mods and have even more money to get the turbo.
The RSX Type S had a 11:1 compression not 12:1.
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Old 10-10-2014, 01:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by smurf stang View Post
The RSX Type S had a 11:1 compression not 12:1.
Then i was lied to...little ricers

I'm feel like Im banging my head against a wall here about the whole over axel piping question. Some say it wont change anything for powerr to change them and others are saying that your exhaust should be even all the way through, meaning if you get a 2.5" mid pipe then you will want to get 2.5" overaxels....
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Old 10-10-2014, 02:15 PM   #69
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Well yes the best way to do it would to have nice uniform piping. The stock piping has crimps and bends and little inconsistencies all over the place. Now is it going to net you a ton of power no but everything helps when you start looking for every ounce.


Most of the power is locked up in the stock manifold design and the cats.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:39 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf stang View Post
Well yes the best way to do it would to have nice uniform piping. The stock piping has crimps and bends and little inconsistencies all over the place. Now is it going to net you a ton of power no but everything helps when you start looking for every ounce.


Most of the power is locked up in the stock manifold design and the cats.
Question now is if there is a way to have the cats removed without creating that nasty raspy metallic sound
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