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Old 10-07-2014, 10:11 AM   #1
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91 vs 93 octane tune

Hey guys!

Was using 91 octane fuel + tune before (i have MPT & LUND RACING TUNE)

Upgraded to 93 octane recently...


was informed by lund racing that i don't need a revised tune and I can use my existing 91 octane tune.

MPT on the other hand told me that they can't revise my existing tune and I need to place a new order for a 93 octane tune.

My question: does the 91 octane tune works properly with 93 octane fuel?

Thanks guys!
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:16 AM   #2
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All honesty 91 to 93 isn't going to do anything. 2 octane points is not going to be a drastic change for a tune revision.

If that's what MPT wants though.............so be it

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Old 10-07-2014, 10:21 AM   #3
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Yes. You can use a higher octane fuel with a lower octane tune.

For example, you can use 93 octane fuel with an 87 octane tune.

You cannot, however, use 87 octane fuel with a 93 octane tune.


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Old 10-07-2014, 12:16 PM   #4
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What about 91 fuel with 93? It is only 2 octane points....Im not trying to be a smart *** BTW. I'm just asking to see if in case i needed to I could.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:19 PM   #5
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I wouldn't. There's a reason why tuners offer 91 and 93 octane tunes.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:25 PM   #6
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Edit: Didn't realize you upgraded your fuel, not tune. If you're OCD like me then get a 93 tune to match the 93 fuel but there's no problem in running 91 tune with 93 gas.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dubaighost View Post
Hey guys!

Was using 91 octane fuel + tune before (i have MPT & LUND RACING TUNE)

Upgraded to 93 octane recently...


was informed by lund racing that i don't need a revised tune and I can use my existing 91 octane tune.

MPT on the other hand told me that they can't revise my existing tune and I need to place a new order for a 93 octane tune.

My question: does the 91 octane tune works properly with 93 octane fuel?

Thanks guys!
OP, I don't mean to go way off topic on you but the fact you have a 3.7 running a MPT tune and Lund tune has peaked my interest huge. I run a 91 MPT, 91 Bama hybird and 91 Steeda tunes. I primarily run my MPT tune and absolutely love it.

Your the only person I have seen on any forum that has a 3.7 and runs MPT and Lund tune. Please tell me bro. Which tune do you like better? MPT or Lund? Which tune makes your car run the fasest 1/4 mile time if you drag strip race. Which tune MPT or Lund netted the higher rwhp and rwtq on dyno?

Which tune do you feel has a better throttle response? Which tune feels to pull harder, Lund or MPT? Which tune has better shift points? Dude this is awesome someone out there has a MPT and Lund tune on the same car and being a 3.7. Please give me the low down. I always said that I bet MPT could give Lund a run for the money and maybe even run faster times. My MPT tune is on the money.



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Old 10-07-2014, 01:07 PM   #8
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Yes. You can use a higher octane fuel with a lower octane tune.

For example, you can use 93 octane fuel with an 87 octane tune.

You cannot, however, use 87 octane fuel with a 93 octane tune.


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Old 10-07-2014, 01:12 PM   #9
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Yes but a tune from 91 to 93 will not be anything drastic enough for a actual re tune.
Thats why lund will tell you it's not needed. Other tuners who aren't that great will tell you yes you have to.

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---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Just like I guarantee you that your 93 octane most of you get is not real 93

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Old 10-07-2014, 01:27 PM   #10
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Yes. You can use a higher octane fuel with a lower octane tune.

For example, you can use 93 octane fuel with an 87 octane tune.

You cannot, however, use 87 octane fuel with a 93 octane tune.
You can use lower octane, if the knock sensor thing is left enabled in your tune.

If they disable it like most tunes do, then using lower octane (than your tune) can cause knocking/detonation. (bad)

And as others have said, you can use 93 octane with a 91 tune and it will work fine. And the way the ECU works, its adaptive so if you have a little + or - octane then it should adjust within a range.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:02 PM   #11
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I wouldn't. There's a reason why tuners offer 91 and 93 octane tunes.
I talked to BAMA once before regarding the difference in offerings and I was told that 91 isn't offered in some states i.e California and where there is 93 there is no 91. 87 and 89 are offered all over. I'm just mainly curious as to how advanced the timing is changed from a 91-93 tune...too be honest i drove out to Boston with a 91 tune drove it around with 93 and then changed to a 93 tune. didnt fell any different. I wonder if the "93 is better than 91 because its 2 points higher in octane" statement is the same as saying " Challenger SRT8s are better than Mustang GTs because they are 40+ hp more"
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:11 PM   #12
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You can use lower octane, if the knock sensor thing is left enabled in your tune.

If they disable it like most tunes do, then using lower octane (than your tune) can cause knocking/detonation. (bad)

And as others have said, you can use 93 octane with a 91 tune and it will work fine. And the way the ECU works, its adaptive so if you have a little + or - octane then it should adjust within a range.

Reread what I said.


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Old 10-07-2014, 03:15 PM   #13
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I talked to BAMA once before regarding the difference in offerings and I was told that 91 isn't offered in some states i.e California and where there is 93 there is no 91. 87 and 89 are offered all over. I'm just mainly curious as to how advanced the timing is changed from a 91-93 tune...too be honest i drove out to Boston with a 91 tune drove it around with 93 and then changed to a 93 tune. didnt fell any different. I wonder if the "93 is better than 91 because its 2 points higher in octane" statement is the same as saying " Challenger SRT8s are better than Mustang GTs because they are 40+ hp more"
93 will work on a 91 octane tune, much like 93 would work on a 87 tune. I don't think 91 will work on a 93 tune.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:31 PM   #14
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LOL not sure why I care...its not like its that important considering Im paying .40 cheeper for 93 octane than when i was back in San Diego paying cheepest 3.78 for regular! man it sucked out there. Gas and expenses just bleed you dry.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:40 PM   #15
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Reread what I said.
Sorry, I was agreeing with you. Just pointing out that some tunes have the option to leave the knock sensor enabled as a fail safe in case you get lower octane gas somehow by accident, etc.

So technically you could put in lower octane in an emergency and the knock sensor would tell the ECU to ****** timing, but you would not want to do that obviously or whats the point of the tune!
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:07 PM   #16
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Sorry, I was agreeing with you. Just pointing out that some tunes have the option to leave the knock sensor enabled as a fail safe in case you get lower octane gas somehow by accident, etc.

So technically you could put in lower octane in an emergency and the knock sensor would tell the ECU to ****** timing, but you would not want to do that obviously or whats the point of the tune!

Oh, gotcha.

I thought you were disagreeing with me then restating exactly what I'd said lol.


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Old 10-08-2014, 05:25 AM   #17
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@kona blue



Which tune do you like better? MPT or Lund? >>>> hmmmm... its 2 different tunes altogether. The weird part is, both gets better than the other everytime I receive a revised tune from them.

Which tune makes your car run the fasest 1/4 mile time if you drag strip race. >>> haven't tried. Will do it once my turbo/procharger (+NOS) is installed.

Which tune MPT or Lund netted the higher rwhp and rwtq on dyno? >>> haven't tried as well. This will happen soon though



Which tune do you feel has a better throttle response? >>> MPT. Lund tune is quite conservative. ..

Which tune feels to pull harder, Lund or MPT? >> MPT ... perhaps because of its aggressive set up

Which tune has better shift points? > pretty much the same on WOT. Lund tune shifts very early on normal driving

Quoted from John lund (from our email conversation)

"*We optimize for both Street and race use. There’s no need to make it have tire chirping shifts all the time. It doesn’t help when racing, so why do it? As for performance goes, it is optimal for pump gas. You can only go so far with it. Getting too aggressive won’t help if the knock sensors don’t like it and pull timing."

Currently I am running my MPT. Weird because the lund tune was running good @ 5.5s 0-60 while MPT gave me a best time of 5.9s. But after receiving the revised tunes from both lund racing and MPT (after I change my tires from series 30 to 35), MPT gives me a best time of 5.3s and lund racing on the other hand is just 5.8s.

I have raised this issue to lund racing but they need to see a data log in which I am having a trouble in executing now.

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Old 10-08-2014, 08:26 AM   #18
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Currently I am running my MPT. Weird because the lund tune was running good @ 5.5s 0-60 while MPT gave me a best time of 5.9s. But after receiving the revised tunes from both lund racing and MPT (after I change my tires from series 30 to 35), MPT gives me a best time of 5.3s and lund racing on the other hand is just 5.8s.
Are you using Track Apps to record your 0-60?

I need to play with mine more and see what it can really do, the couple of times I've tried it... just playing around on the street (with noone around) I got 5.3 seconds as my 0-60 - stock GT Premium Convertible. Now I didn't do anything like a burn out to heat up tires or rev. engine up, etc.. Just punched it from idle at a redlight.

That should make you feel good... your V6 is as fast as my fat stock V8.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:34 AM   #19
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Are you using Track Apps to record your 0-60?

I need to play with mine more and see what it can really do, the couple of times I've tried it... just playing around on the street (with noone around) I got 5.3 seconds as my 0-60 - stock GT Premium Convertible. Now I didn't do anything like a burn out to heat up tires or rev. engine up, etc.. Just punched it from idle at a redlight.

That should make you feel good... your V6 is as fast as my fat stock V8.
Nice. I've played with my track apps a few times. GT Premium coupe with every option except glass roof and Brembo's. 3 0-60 runs. Average of 4.7. 1st run was a 4.9, then 4.5, then 4.7.

This was from a stop light, so no real chance to heat up the tires or stage the engine any more than regular street driving.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:55 AM   #20
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@rizzle yes... track apps...

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Old 10-08-2014, 10:21 AM   #21
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Sorry, I was agreeing with you. Just pointing out that some tunes have the option to leave the knock sensor enabled as a fail safe in case you get lower octane gas somehow by accident, etc.

So technically you could put in lower octane in an emergency and the knock sensor would tell the ECU to ****** timing, but you would not want to do that obviously or whats the point of the tune!
Why would tuners disable knock sensors? Who told you that they did? It seems to me that that is asking for trouble. I don't think they would do that. In fact I have heard the opposite. Knock sensors are failsafes that enable tuners to be more aggressive while not worrying about engine damage. Every engine is a bit different.
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:45 AM   #22
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Why would tuners disable knock sensors? Who told you that they did? It seems to me that that is asking for trouble. I don't think they would do that. In fact I have heard the opposite. Knock sensors are failsafes that enable tuners to be more aggressive while not worrying about engine damage. Every engine is a bit different.
second guess what you just wrote. Some tuners do disable them bud.

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Old 10-08-2014, 01:51 PM   #23
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Do you know why they would disable the knock sensors then? Just to be mean? I don't think engine knock helps performance.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:39 PM   #24
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Do you know why they would disable the knock sensors then? Just to be mean? I don't think engine knock helps performance.
They are disabled on my car, justin from VMP also disables them on cert cars. Higher rpms can cue false knock readings in some cars so some tuners will ****** them a few degrees, or disable them

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:54 PM   #25
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Typically they function on an rpm x load grid, they're not just "on," or "off." The Mazdaspeed 3 will pull timing when daily driving to improve gas mileage, but it still shows as "kr" when logging. Its hard to explain this to some people, so sometimes i'll just turn them off below 3000 rpms and like 1.0 load for example to people dont freak out.

Also, like in Rap's case, i have seen some knock sensors that are incredibly sensitive at the higher rpms and will pull tons of timing, so i turn them off at the top end between 6000 and 7000 or so over 2.0 load. Really just depends, and is a base by base example. You just have to trust your tuner has seen enough variations that they believe they can do that safely.
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:28 PM   #26
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Thanks for the info. I did not know they were prone to false readings. I don't think BAMA turns off knock sensors though.
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:58 PM   #27
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Thanks for the info. I did not know they were prone to false readings. I don't think BAMA turns off knock sensors though.
If they don't, could it be why their tunes dont have as much "oomph" as people say MPT or Lund have?
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:11 PM   #28
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If they don't, could it be why their tunes dont have as much "oomph" as people say MPT or Lund have?
I think MPT and lund leave the sensors on.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:20 AM   #29
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Thanks for the info. I did not know they were prone to false readings. I don't think BAMA turns off knock sensors though.
Yeah, some knock sensors will pick up a lot of chatter, thats why its important everything is tight and bolted down in the engine bay. A loose exhaust, loose intake, OCC... anything that can rattle or tap on the engine can be picked up by them.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:50 PM   #30
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I haven't tuned my Mustang yet, but I actually found that my Raptor runs better on the 91-tune (using 93 octane) than it did with the 93-tune. In Texas, with our heat, I think the 93-tune is too aggressive and has diminishing returns. Now that it is cooling off I am going to swap back to the 93-tune and see if there is a difference.

Either way, unless you are trying to squeeze every .01 at the track, you probably won't notice a difference between the 91 & 93 tune.
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