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Old 11-23-2014, 10:32 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine View Post
We both have ideologies whose goal is to protect your (and my) family ... we just see things differently.

Your point of view seems to be backed by anger and lots of exclamation points ... whereas my point of view uses statistics and evidence, and has proven things that you've said ("violent crime [in Europe] has skyrocketed") to be demonstrably false.


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And once again you have failed to answer my question!.. You just simply side step it!.. Wow!..


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Old 11-23-2014, 10:35 PM   #142
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And yes some of mine comes from a bit of anger!.. But only against people like your self who are trying to take my rights away, simply because you makes you feel better!..


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Old 11-24-2014, 12:00 AM   #143
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Your quote, " Also, your agreement that people die because of guns is ridiculous. "...is ridiculous.
That is not my quote. While I do agree that people die from guns, I also agree that they die from cars, medical malpractice, smoking, alcohol, abortion, baseball bats, falling down the stairs, etc.

I did notice that the link posted by thegreenmachine tells us that the crime has decreased 15% in Europe. However, it also says that rape has increased over 20%, and 54% increase in rapes of boy children and 25% of girl children. Now since you want to use an article from The Guardian, I will to.

Crime statistics for England and Wales: violent crime and sexual offences | News | The Guardian

This article shows that the crime stats match yours with a 13% decline in violent crimes and a 35% decrease since 1995. However, if you read this article, it states homicide and sexual offenses are not included. Also, 55% of the victims are repeat victims. It also says that knives and sharp objects are the number one tool for committing the homicides. Criminals will use whatever they can.

Also, you commented about the use of exclamation points is showing how angry gun owners are. It's not that we're angry, we're frustrated. We are all trying to understand why anti gun people feel it's ok to want to take our guns away. We have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you disagree with that, fine, then don't buy a gun. But why try to take them away from others. Just because I think old Kia cars are crap and unsafe doesn't give me the right to try to get them all off the road.

I'm sorry if my terminology of the black community offends you. When referring to American natives, they are called Indians. The people to our north are called Canadians and the ones to our south are called Mexicans. I refuse to refer to black people as African-Americans. If they were born here, they are black Americans, period! Just as I am a white American. All of this hyphenated crap is part of the fall of this great country. My neighbor is black and he is insulted when people refer to him as an African American. Why? Because he's from Jamaica. I've heard politicians refer to black people from England as African American and they've been laughed at because the person isn't even American. When corrected, they were told that the black person was English! That's it, not African-English, just English.

To end this, do I get a participation trophy for being a part of this thread? Another feel good PC thing that needs to go away.
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:17 AM   #144
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To end this, do I get a participation trophy for being a part of this thread? Another feel good PC thing that needs to go away.
Haha, I remember playing in a basketball leage when I was younger (maybe 15 years ago). Before the final game the coach brought in two boxes to the locker room. One had trophies about 2ft tall, each with our names and "League Champions" engraved on them. The second box had medals with "Runners Up" engraved on them. He said we could get the trophies if we won and the medals if we lost. You know what, we won!
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:29 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by scottmoyer View Post
That is not my quote. While I do agree that people die from guns, I also agree that they die from cars, medical malpractice, smoking, alcohol, abortion, baseball bats, falling down the stairs, etc.

I did notice that the link posted by thegreenmachine tells us that the crime has decreased 15% in Europe. However, it also says that rape has increased over 20%, and 54% increase in rapes of boy children and 25% of girl children. Now since you want to use an article from The Guardian, I will to.

Crime statistics for England and Wales: violent crime and sexual offences | News | The Guardian

This article shows that the crime stats match yours with a 13% decline in violent crimes and a 35% decrease since 1995. However, if you read this article, it states homicide and sexual offenses are not included. Also, 55% of the victims are repeat victims. It also says that knives and sharp objects are the number one tool for committing the homicides. Criminals will use whatever they can.

Also, you commented about the use of exclamation points is showing how angry gun owners are. It's not that we're angry, we're frustrated. We are all trying to understand why anti gun people feel it's ok to want to take our guns away. We have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you disagree with that, fine, then don't buy a gun. But why try to take them away from others. Just because I think old Kia cars are crap and unsafe doesn't give me the right to try to get them all off the road.

I'm sorry if my terminology of the black community offends you. When referring to American natives, they are called Indians. The people to our north are called Canadians and the ones to our south are called Mexicans. I refuse to refer to black people as African-Americans. If they were born here, they are black Americans, period! Just as I am a white American. All of this hyphenated crap is part of the fall of this great country. My neighbor is black and he is insulted when people refer to him as an African American. Why? Because he's from Jamaica. I've heard politicians refer to black people from England as African American and they've been laughed at because the person isn't even American. When corrected, they were told that the black person was English! That's it, not African-English, just English.

To end this, do I get a participation trophy for being a part of this thread? Another feel good PC thing that needs to go away.
That's exactly your quote, re read what you wrote. Your opening sentence last paragraph. If it isn't yours than who's is it lol? But you do make some valid points. Its all good we just have different opinions.

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Old 11-24-2014, 05:32 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by scottmoyer View Post
That is not my quote. While I do agree that people die from guns, I also agree that they die from cars, medical malpractice, smoking, alcohol, abortion, baseball bats, falling down the stairs, etc.



I did notice that the link posted by thegreenmachine tells us that the crime has decreased 15% in Europe. However, it also says that rape has increased over 20%, and 54% increase in rapes of boy children and 25% of girl children. Now since you want to use an article from The Guardian, I will to.



Crime statistics for England and Wales: violent crime and sexual offences | News | The Guardian



This article shows that the crime stats match yours with a 13% decline in violent crimes and a 35% decrease since 1995. However, if you read this article, it states homicide and sexual offenses are not included. Also, 55% of the victims are repeat victims. It also says that knives and sharp objects are the number one tool for committing the homicides. Criminals will use whatever they can.



Also, you commented about the use of exclamation points is showing how angry gun owners are. It's not that we're angry, we're frustrated. We are all trying to understand why anti gun people feel it's ok to want to take our guns away. We have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you disagree with that, fine, then don't buy a gun. But why try to take them away from others. Just because I think old Kia cars are crap and unsafe doesn't give me the right to try to get them all off the road.



I'm sorry if my terminology of the black community offends you. When referring to American natives, they are called Indians. The people to our north are called Canadians and the ones to our south are called Mexicans. I refuse to refer to black people as African-Americans. If they were born here, they are black Americans, period! Just as I am a white American. All of this hyphenated crap is part of the fall of this great country. My neighbor is black and he is insulted when people refer to him as an African American. Why? Because he's from Jamaica. I've heard politicians refer to black people from England as African American and they've been laughed at because the person isn't even American. When corrected, they were told that the black person was English! That's it, not African-English, just English.



To end this, do I get a participation trophy for being a part of this thread? Another feel good PC thing that needs to go away.

And last I checked, rape and most especially Homicide, some form of violence was used!.. Kinda hard to kill someone with out it being Violent!.. Lol. And you are right about the Anti Gun crowd!.. And every Law Abiding citizen has a right to Buy, Own, and Carry a firearm if they so choose!..

As for me!.. I do have my CPL and I do carry!.. I will protect my family by any means necessary!..


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Old 11-24-2014, 08:06 AM   #147
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FastFord, that is not my quote. My quote did not say agreement. It said argument.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:51 AM   #148
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Any way you loo at it-Guns a dangerous and people kill with them

If you remember or ever read your BIBLE Cain murdered his brother Abel with a shot to the head

GUN??? No I think it was a rock. Maybe a gun, No, A rock, and owning and carrying a rock should not be allowed because they kill people.

The moral of this story is the old saying""GUNS DON:T KILL PEOPLE---PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"""" and when they want to kill someone they will use any method at their disposal at the time.

And I do have to add, Gun events in countries that rid ownership of guns by honest law abiding citizens such as suicides and accidental shootings have almost disappeared. But crime went way up. Robberies, Muggings etc. are out of total control in England and Australia.

Most of the shootings in America are drug related, Gang related, Suicides, Police shooting criminals, Law abiding citizens shooting burglars Criminals shooting jiffy store employees ( They can't have a gun for protection) Here in Florida they go after tourists ( They also don't have a gun)
The anti gun idiots add all of the gun related violence into one lump including self defense shootings to alter the facts.

Crime is every ware and is not going to just go away if guns are outlawed. It will just get worse.
An Armed society is a Polite society is not just a saying. It is a fact of life.

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Old 11-24-2014, 10:17 AM   #149
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FastFord, that is not my quote. My quote did not say agreement. It said argument.
Yes you are correct, it is argument not agreement. I will correct it in my post.

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Old 11-24-2014, 10:36 AM   #150
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Where do yall store CCWs in this thing?

See next post.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:13 AM   #151
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Where do yall store CCWs in this thing?

Sure glad I didn't have to take the two deer I got this past weekend down with a rock. That would have been much more difficult...Two less deer on the road for our fine ME members to hit with their Mustangs, possibly injuring or killing themselves and or their families. Thank God for having the proper tool to get the job done.


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Old 11-24-2014, 11:36 AM   #152
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Sure glad I didn't have to take the two deer I got this past weekend down with a rock. That would have been much more difficult...Two less deer on the road for our fine ME members to hit with their Mustangs, possibly injuring or killing themselves and or their families. Thank God for having the proper tool to get the job done.


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You would be a Man above all others if you took down Two Deer with one Rock!... Lol. Pour Skill Dude!.. Lol.


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Old 11-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #153
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You would be a Man above all others if you took down Two Deer with one Rock!... Lol. Pour Skill Dude!.. Lol.


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Ha!! I was thinking two rocks, one for each deer!!


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Old 11-24-2014, 03:36 PM   #154
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That is not my quote. While I do agree that people die from guns, I also agree that they die from cars, medical malpractice, smoking, alcohol, abortion, baseball bats, falling down the stairs, etc.

I did notice that the link posted by thegreenmachine tells us that the crime has decreased 15% in Europe. However, it also says that rape has increased over 20%, and 54% increase in rapes of boy children and 25% of girl children. Now since you want to use an article from The Guardian, I will to.

Crime statistics for England and Wales: violent crime and sexual offences | News | The Guardian

This article shows that the crime stats match yours with a 13% decline in violent crimes and a 35% decrease since 1995. However, if you read this article, it states homicide and sexual offenses are not included. Also, 55% of the victims are repeat victims. It also says that knives and sharp objects are the number one tool for committing the homicides. Criminals will use whatever they can.

Also, you commented about the use of exclamation points is showing how angry gun owners are. It's not that we're angry, we're frustrated. We are all trying to understand why anti gun people feel it's ok to want to take our guns away. We have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you disagree with that, fine, then don't buy a gun. But why try to take them away from others. Just because I think old Kia cars are crap and unsafe doesn't give me the right to try to get them all off the road.

I'm sorry if my terminology of the black community offends you. When referring to American natives, they are called Indians. The people to our north are called Canadians and the ones to our south are called Mexicans. I refuse to refer to black people as African-Americans. If they were born here, they are black Americans, period! Just as I am a white American. All of this hyphenated crap is part of the fall of this great country. My neighbor is black and he is insulted when people refer to him as an African American. Why? Because he's from Jamaica. I've heard politicians refer to black people from England as African American and they've been laughed at because the person isn't even American. When corrected, they were told that the black person was English! That's it, not African-English, just English.

To end this, do I get a participation trophy for being a part of this thread? Another feel good PC thing that needs to go away.
The article I cited did note that violent crime rate (excluding homicide) AND the homicide rate have been falling in the UK. Even the article you cited noted that violent crime has been decline in the UK and homicide has been falling for the last decade. The only reason I brought up those points because is because Eturner stated that in the Europe – “Violent Crime has Sky Rocketed!..” - Clearly something objectively not true. You are right that the article did note an increase in rapes, especially against children. These are usually committed by people the children know (often times "friends" and relatives of the parents) when supervision is not around, and are not the kind of crimes where a gun battle would drive off a would be attacker.

If you are concerned about children, again it is EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRATED that areas which have more gun availability have more children dying from gun deaths, controlling for other factors - Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths, suicide, and... - PubMed - NCBI

As far knives being the number one tool for committing homicide in the UK ... of course it is because they don't have guns! While people still do kill, you don't see the same kinds of senseless mass shootings that you do here.

As to why we are not content with just owning guns, and want to "take your guns away," again it's because we have beliefs backed by science and evidence (not just feelings - which gun owners seem to have in abundance) that lives will be saved without them. I know that you as an individual FEEL safe with a gun. The problem is when everyone has them the evidence shows that society as a whole are less safe, with the results that people NEEDLESSLY DIE.

As to your terminology for black people, I don't think most people care whether you say black or African American even inside the black community where those terms are still up for debate. I certainly don't. Rather, it's your use of the term "the blacks." It's like using the term "negro," ... people just don't do that in 2014. If you don't get it I don't really know how to explain it you ...
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:48 PM   #155
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If you remember or ever read your BIBLE Cain murdered his brother Abel with a shot to the head

GUN??? No I think it was a rock. Maybe a gun, No, A rock, and owning and carrying a rock should not be allowed because they kill people.

The moral of this story is the old saying""GUNS DON:T KILL PEOPLE---PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"""" and when they want to kill someone they will use any method at their disposal at the time.

And I do have to add, Gun events in countries that rid ownership of guns by honest law abiding citizens such as suicides and accidental shootings have almost disappeared. But crime went way up. Robberies, Muggings etc. are out of total control in England and Australia.

Most of the shootings in America are drug related, Gang related, Suicides, Police shooting criminals, Law abiding citizens shooting burglars Criminals shooting jiffy store employees ( They can't have a gun for protection) Here in Florida they go after tourists ( They also don't have a gun)
The anti gun idiots add all of the gun related violence into one lump including self defense shootings to alter the facts.

Crime is every ware and is not going to just go away if guns are outlawed. It will just get worse.
An Armed society is a Polite society is not just a saying. It is a fact of life.

Ronnie
Cain and Abel never existed ... but yes murder does happen without guns but not to the extent and as quickly as it happens with firearms widely available. Mass shootings like the 20 very real children killed in Newtown, Mass., simply do not happen as often in societies that have banned guns.

As for your claim that "Robberies, Muggings etc. are out of total control in England and Australia," I direct you to this article - Crime rate in England and Wales falls 15% to its lowest level in 33 years | UK news | The Guardian.

It states that in the UK - "The detailed figures show not only a continued decline in the murder rate but robberies down 12%, gun crime down 6% and knife crime down 4%. Household burglaries, once the main crime concern in the 1980s and 1990s, show a further 4% fall on the crime survey."

As far the oft repeated claim that many gun shootings are law abiding citizens shooting criminals and self-defense, again this is wrong. Here is an article from HARVARD ( http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hirc/fir...nse-gun-use-2/ ) showing that -

1) "the claim of many millions of annual self-defense uses by American citizens is invalid"

2)"most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses used in escalating arguments and are both socially undesireable and illegal."

3) "Few criminals are shot by decent law abiding citizens"

Please read the entire article. If you don't believe me, will you believe Harvard?

Are you willing to modify your views now that you have been presented with evidence that shows that you are wrong? Probably not.

The funny thing with human psychology is that the more evidence people get that challenges their world views, the more they dig into their own beliefs, even if it is not correct. This is a known psychological phenomenon, but maybe being aware of it can help you overcome it.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:54 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
If you remember or ever read your BIBLE Cain murdered his brother Abel with a shot to the head

GUN??? No I think it was a rock. Maybe a gun, No, A rock, and owning and carrying a rock should not be allowed because they kill people.

The moral of this story is the old saying""GUNS DON:T KILL PEOPLE---PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"""" and when they want to kill someone they will use any method at their disposal at the time.

And I do have to add, Gun events in countries that rid ownership of guns by honest law abiding citizens such as suicides and accidental shootings have almost disappeared. But crime went way up. Robberies, Muggings etc. are out of total control in England and Australia.

Most of the shootings in America are drug related, Gang related, Suicides, Police shooting criminals, Law abiding citizens shooting burglars Criminals shooting jiffy store employees ( They can't have a gun for protection) Here in Florida they go after tourists ( They also don't have a gun)
The anti gun idiots add all of the gun related violence into one lump including self defense shootings to alter the facts.

Crime is every ware and is not going to just go away if guns are outlawed. It will just get worse.
An Armed society is a Polite society is not just a saying. It is a fact of life.

Ronnie
All I can say is WOW LOL. Great mentality!!!

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Old 11-24-2014, 09:12 PM   #157
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Wow Mister Fast Ford

Does the truth scare you that much you have to insult me?????????
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:24 PM   #158
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Oh Ronnie. Lol. Don't get your nickers in a knot, there was no insult towards you carry on. Remember polite society. Besides its not nice to call anti gun people idiots. No one has called pro gun people idiots here, we like you just express our opinions that's all. Just because some of us don't believe in arming everyone like you do doesn't mean you have to get nasty.

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Old 11-24-2014, 09:59 PM   #159
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Cain and Abel never existed ... but yes murder does happen without guns but not to the extent and as quickly as it happens with firearms widely available. Mass shootings like the 20 very real children killed in Newtown, Mass., simply do not happen as often in societies that have banned guns.

As for your claim that "Robberies, Muggings etc. are out of total control in England and Australia," I direct you to this article - Crime rate in England and Wales falls 15% to its lowest level in 33 years | UK news | The Guardian.

It states that in the UK - "The detailed figures show not only a continued decline in the murder rate but robberies down 12%, gun crime down 6% and knife crime down 4%. Household burglaries, once the main crime concern in the 1980s and 1990s, show a further 4% fall on the crime survey."

As far the oft repeated claim that many gun shootings are law abiding citizens shooting criminals and self-defense, again this is wrong. Here is an article from HARVARD ( http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hirc/fir...nse-gun-use-2/ ) showing that -

1) "the claim of many millions of annual self-defense uses by American citizens is invalid"

2)"most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses used in escalating arguments and are both socially undesireable and illegal."

3) "Few criminals are shot by decent law abiding citizens"

Please read the entire article. If you don't believe me, will you believe Harvard?

Are you willing to modify your views now that you have been presented with evidence that shows that you are wrong? Probably not.

The funny thing with human psychology is that the more evidence people get that challenges their world views, the more they dig into their own beliefs, even if it is not correct. This is a known psychological phenomenon, but maybe being aware of it can help you overcome it.

So what's stoping you from overcoming yours?...


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---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
Does the truth scare you that much you have to insult me?????????

Ronnie

I'm with you Ronnie!..


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Old 11-24-2014, 10:01 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine View Post
Yes, I agree that this is a friendly discussion, as you can see I love these kinds of discussions, they don't anger me at all.

I'm quite aware of what the Constitution has to say about slavery (I'm a history teacher). Slavery was a tricky topic, liberals pushed to end the practice while conservatives wanted to keep it. While it did not ever mention slavery as a result, it did recognize the legal existence of unfree labor when it stated in the 3/5 clause that unfree individuals would count as 3/5 of a person in those states' congressional representation. This clause was pushed by slave states to increase their representation in the government. Certainly not the kind of language of a perfect document. I was just simplifying things to show that the Constitution never was, or is a perfect document. It was a very progressive document for its day, but was certainly never intended by the framers to be a be all end all.

As for why I am against your right to own a gun, it's because people die as a result. I already cited a study showing that looser gun laws are statistically correlated with more gun deaths amongst children after controlling for outside factors. And some states do have looser gun laws, I would never dream of "carrying and concealing" here in NY.

Just saying people should take better care of their weapons doesn't cut it. Unfortunately there is no IQ test when purchasing a firearm. In fact, the NRA even opposes common sense gun safety laws like mandatory storage of firearms (NRA Asks: What Kind Of Idiot Would Keep His Gun In A Safe Where His Children Can’t Even Get To It? | Wonkette).

Quite simply, the US has more gun deaths per capita than other countries because guns are more available here - U.S. Has More Guns – And Gun Deaths – Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News. It's not because Americans are any crazier than Canadians (I've met quite a few wacky Canadians), it's because guns are more widely available. And please I don't want another person saying that these gun deaths are criminals being killed, the children being killed in the study I cited showing increased deaths amongst children with looser gun laws are not criminals.

Eventually, the US will catch up to other advanced industrialized nations and ban or significantly curtail guns. Just as we were one of the last western nations to ban slavery, we will be one of the last to ban guns, but it will happen. Australia just recently took a large number of guns off their streets - with predicable results, gun deaths declined - http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf.

By the way, I love this country and every criticism I have is geared towards improving our nation and moving us towards being a more "perfect union."
As is typical of those who are anti-gun extremist, you have taken a simplistic point of view. The issue is not gun control, but mental health and societal issues. We have a government that felt the way to 'fix' racial issues, ghettos, another ills was to give away money and housing. As with most government programs, it created more problems every time they tried to fix it. We also have neighbors to our south that are closer to be at war with us than most realize. It is like prohibition, you cannot force change on those who do not want it. Most people that advocate gun control are those who entrust government to protect them. It is impossible to ban guns. The only real solution will be to change the circumstances that creates the risk of violence in our society. The anti-gun radicals love to trot out the innocents that get kill, but there are so many ways that people die and are killed. Let's keep the issue about how to best to do what was asked.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:03 PM   #161
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Hey Fast Ford

I have been to Montreal Canada and felt safe. I rode my Harley all the way across Route 7 from west to east without any problems at all.
I have also rode across the U.S.A. with no problems at all.
In 1985 I rode down thru Mexico and back up thru Baha and the only problem I had was I don't like Mexican food so I lived on Fried Chicken.

All of this was done back in the 80's and as you know, The world was a lot different back then.

It is now 2014 and because of the way the economy is now, The street gang increase and People just plain wired and crazy here in Florida. It is pretty necessary to have some sort of protection. A Firearm seems to be the wise choice.

What I find is that people move down to Florida for the weather and find they can not find a job. They spent all of their money and really can't afford to go back where they came from. Some turn to crime to survive and feed their family's. I moved down here in 1978 and Daytona was a small city. Now it is a huge city and way more people then jobs. Crime goes up in the winter due to the hobo's and homeless coming down to just keep warm. Some of them will kill you for a dollar. We have all of the criminals that came out of Cuba when Castro let them out of the prisons and flooded Florida with them along with some really good hard working Cuban's.

Your Country and city is not safe because of your gun laws. It is just safe due to you don't have all of the criminals coming over your borders. Your country also has a lot of our American industry to keep your people working.

We used to have a great safe prosperous country but due to the stupidest, corrupt idiot thief politicians in Washington. Our way of life changed. Ever hear of N.A.F.T.A. ? It forced a lot of our industry to move to Mexico or Canada. A lot of Washington palms were greased pretty good to put that country killer through.

If you lived here and not Canada I'm betting you would have a gun in your home. Probably one in your car too.
Ronnie

PS: I don't think I ever called you or anyone that is for gun ban's an idiot. The U.S.A. and Canada are both free countries and give us the freedom to offer our opinions.

I just went back and read all of my posts and noplace at all I called you an Idiot. I did not think I did. I like keeping this a friendly discussion.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:27 PM   #162
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Sadly, there are teachers who push their personal beliefs on their students, instead of sticking to the curriculum in an unbiased manner. I have heard my stepdaughter mentioning this back when she was in high school, and know of another teacher in a different district who was finally let go for the same thing. The parents had enough. Teachers would even go as far as telling high school seniors who to vote for in elections. Completely wrong. These young kids have impressionable minds and shouldn't be brainwashed into the personal beliefs of someone in their authority who has them under their daily control for extended periods of time. I can only hope that the teacher in this thread is leaving his personal political opinions and influence out of the classroom.


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Old 11-24-2014, 10:42 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
I have been to Montreal Canada and felt safe. I rode my Harley all the way across Route 7 from west to east without any problems at all.
I have also rode across the U.S.A. with no problems at all.
In 1985 I rode down thru Mexico and back up thru Baha and the only problem I had was I don't like Mexican food so I lived on Fried Chicken.

All of this was done back in the 80's and as you know, The world was a lot different back then.

It is now 2014 and because of the way the economy is now, The street gang increase and People just plain wired and crazy here in Florida. It is pretty necessary to have some sort of protection. A Firearm seems to be the wise choice.

What I find is that people move down to Florida for the weather and find they can not find a job. They spent all of their money and really can't afford to go back where they came from. Some turn to crime to survive and feed their family's. I moved down here in 1978 and Daytona was a small city. Now it is a huge city and way more people then jobs. Crime goes up in the winter due to the hobo's and homeless coming down to just keep warm. Some of them will kill you for a dollar. We have all of the criminals that came out of Cuba when Castro let them out of the prisons and flooded Florida with them along with some really good hard working Cuban's.

Your Country and city is not safe because of your gun laws. It is just safe due to you don't have all of the criminals coming over your borders. Your country also has a lot of our American industry to keep your people working.

We used to have a great safe prosperous country but due to the stupidest, corrupt idiot thief politicians in Washington. Our way of life changed. Ever hear of N.A.F.T.A. ? It forced a lot of our industry to move to Mexico or Canada. A lot of Washington palms were greased pretty good to put that country killer through.

If you lived here and not Canada I'm betting you would have a gun in your home. Probably one in your car too.
Ronnie

PS: I don't think I ever called you or anyone that is for gun ban's an idiot. The U.S.A. and Canada are both free countries and give us the freedom to offer our opinions.

I just went back and read all of my posts and noplace at all I called you an Idiot. I did not think I did. I like keeping this a friendly discussion.
All good, you did mention "The anti gun idiots" in your post though, It didn't imply me directly, just in generalisation lol.

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Old 11-24-2014, 10:49 PM   #164
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Another interesting fact!.. While gun sales have increased here in the U.S., violent crimes have also been on the decline!.. I'm sure Mr. Green was about to point that out too!.. lol


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Old 11-24-2014, 10:58 PM   #165
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Where can I get one of these dangerous guns? My guns must be extra lazy. I once left one on the couch and it didn't do anything all day. Time to start charging these freeloading guns rent. All they do is eat (.22, 9mm, .38, .40, .45, 5.56, 7.62, .270, .308, 300BLK, 7mm, 10ga, 12ga, 20ga, 28ga) and bathe (Hoppes #9 would make a great cologne). To be fair the 7mm and 12ga do pitch in for a meal from time to time...
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:04 PM   #166
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Just gonna leave this here!.. Lol.


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Old 11-24-2014, 11:11 PM   #167
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Where can I get one of these dangerous guns? My guns must be extra lazy. I once left one on the couch and it didn't do anything all day. Time to start charging these freeloading guns rent. All they do is eat (.22, 9mm, .38, .40, .45, 5.56, 7.62, .270, .308, 300BLK, 7mm, 10ga, 12ga, 20ga, 28ga) and bathe (Hoppes #9 would make a great cologne). To be fair the 7mm and 12ga do pitch in for a meal from time to time...

^haha this x1000000
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:22 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by GrabberMeBlue View Post
Sadly, there are teachers who push their personal beliefs on their students, instead of sticking to the curriculum in an unbiased manner. I have heard my stepdaughter mentioning this back when she was in high school, and know of another teacher in a different district who was finally let go for the same thing. The parents had enough. Teachers would even go as far as telling high school seniors who to vote for in elections. Completely wrong. These young kids have impressionable minds and shouldn't be brainwashed into the personal beliefs of someone in their authority who has them under their daily control for extended periods of time. I can only hope that the teacher in this thread is leaving his personal political opinions and influence out of the classroom.
So how about being brainwashed into personal beliefs of their parents, that authority who has them under their daily control for extended periods of time? I hope that kids grow up exposed to MANY different perspectives, ideas, political parties, cultures and religions. And be able to appreciate the diversity of views in this wide world. And I hope that parents will trust that their children will be able to make up their own minds on what they believe. You know... freedom. Freedom to learn and choose what you believe for yourself, not what your mommy and daddy told you.

If not, you'll probably have a lot of stubborn people arguing on the internet and not listening to each other. Or realizing that the world is full of infinite shades of gray and not all black and white.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #169
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So how about being brainwashed into personal beliefs of their parents, that authority who has them under their daily control for extended periods of time? I hope that kids grow up exposed to MANY different perspectives, ideas, political parties, cultures and religions. And be able to appreciate the diversity of views in this wide world. And I hope that parents will trust that their children will be able to make up their own minds on what they believe. You know... freedom. Freedom to learn and choose what you believe for yourself, not what your mommy and daddy told you.

If not, you'll probably have a lot of stubborn people arguing on the internet and not listening to each other. Or realizing that the world is full of infinite shades of gray and not all black and white.

You've missed my point. It's not the place of employees of a public school system funded by tax dollars to impose their personal political beliefs on their students. They are to stick to the curriculum to be taught.

Parents are a whole different story. It's normal and expected for parents to instill their values on their children.


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Old 11-25-2014, 12:12 AM   #170
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You've missed my point. It's not the place of employees of a public school system funded by tax dollars to impose their personal political beliefs on their students. They are to stick to the curriculum to be taught.

Parents are a whole different story. It's normal and expected for parents to instill their values on their children.


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No, I got your point. You missed mine. I don't think teachers, or anyone that the children are exposed to for that matter (friends, neighbors etc) are "imposing" their beliefs on anyone. Unless thegreenmachine gives them a test question that asks "gun control should be tighter in the U.S. True or false?". And I could bet you my life he's not doing that. No one can force anyone to believe anything. Not the parents either, although of course parents can and should teach their children values. But parents should realize that the kids can grow up to follow different values than what their parents taught, and they have a right and freedom to that. Just as much as you have a right and freedom to own guns. My point is this: it is our inalienable human right to choose our own beliefs without imposition or coercion, and in order to exercise that right in the most wise and knowledgeable way, people must be exposed to a wide variety of views so that they can come to their own decisions as adults as to what they want to do.

I hope that my children someday get all sorts of different kinds of teachers. If I had my way, my children would grow up to be car-loving, God-fearing engineers/scientists who think the Beatles are the greatest band of all-time and cats are better than dogs. But I sure hope they have some teachers and friends who are car-hating atheist artists who hate classic rock and have adorable puppies. Maybe then the kids will grow up to be who they want to be rather than be a duplicate of myself. And sure, I can still wish for that they end up choosing the things that I also believe in.
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Old 11-25-2014, 12:55 AM   #171
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Just curious. Coming from an SUV to the Mustang, space is now a premium. I regularly carry a 1911 on my hip, but used to keep a small Glock 27 in one of the pockets of my SUV console. Anyone have any creative suggestions? The 1911 isn't as comfy on my side in these seats so I'd want something I could leave in the car out of sight but accessible.


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Good discussion, guys. Debate is the heart of enlightenment - even if some couldn't find a light in a match factory...

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Old 11-25-2014, 08:05 AM   #172
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No, I got your point. You missed mine. I don't think teachers, or anyone that the children are exposed to for that matter (friends, neighbors etc) are "imposing" their beliefs on anyone. Unless thegreenmachine gives them a test question that asks "gun control should be tighter in the U.S. True or false?". And I could bet you my life he's not doing that. No one can force anyone to believe anything. Not the parents either, although of course parents can and should teach their children values. But parents should realize that the kids can grow up to follow different values than what their parents taught, and they have a right and freedom to that. Just as much as you have a right and freedom to own guns. My point is this: it is our inalienable human right to choose our own beliefs without imposition or coercion, and in order to exercise that right in the most wise and knowledgeable way, people must be exposed to a wide variety of views so that they can come to their own decisions as adults as to what they want to do.

I hope that my children someday get all sorts of different kinds of teachers. If I had my way, my children would grow up to be car-loving, God-fearing engineers/scientists who think the Beatles are the greatest band of all-time and cats are better than dogs. But I sure hope they have some teachers and friends who are car-hating atheist artists who hate classic rock and have adorable puppies. Maybe then the kids will grow up to be who they want to be rather than be a duplicate of myself. And sure, I can still wish for that they end up choosing the things that I also believe in.
*Civilized gun control ends...

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Old 11-25-2014, 08:32 AM   #173
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Where do yall store CCWs in this thing?

I dunno cats are about like guns. Well mine is anyhow. It's just a benign object that sits around. It's not gonna do anything unless your grab it and wield it as a weapon.

Cleaning it is a bit more of a chore though.
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Old 11-25-2014, 09:09 AM   #174
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So what's stoping you from overcoming yours?...


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---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------




I'm with you Ronnie!..


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Old 11-25-2014, 09:21 AM   #175
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Well, I gotta tellya-all

I like cats and I like dogs

It is some people I don't like.

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