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Old 12-03-2014, 08:13 AM   #246
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Hey UltArc

I just gotta know ?????

What was the point your were trying to display with the video ????????

Ronnie
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:19 AM   #247
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All this gun control talk made me laugh.

Guns beget guns i guess, seems like everyone has the need for a gun because everyone else has a gun. Only argument i see for owning a gun is "f*** off i like guns"
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:29 AM   #248
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OP, what about something like this mounted under the steering column http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B001UAM...=SS115&simLd=1 Then it is in a quick, easy place, but is still safe. Its small, discreet, and passerbys prob wont take a second look at it with the door open
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:34 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somedopebeats View Post
Only argument i see for owning a gun is "f*** off i like guns"

Haha, I like Jim Jeffries, but he got that bit wrong. Loved his show but hated the way it ended. Stupid FXx...


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Old 12-03-2014, 10:13 PM   #250
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For what it is worth, the eye witnesses were all over the place. Several of them claimed seeing Brown shot in the back. One claimed there was two patrol cars and four officers. Only one witness described the incident correctly according to the forensics. We place high value on eye witness testimony, and it is often the worse evidence. Most wrong convictions are due to eye witnesses that are mistaken.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:10 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
I just gotta know ?????

What was the point your were trying to display with the video ????????

Ronnie
Humor. The golden rule, and JT/AS golden rule are a bit different...but pretty damn funny.

Trying to liven this place up a bit!

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Old 12-04-2014, 09:42 AM   #252
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A sad fact of life

From the World Health Organization
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens per year.


Honduras 91.6 (WOW!!)
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2
And .........
The United States 4.2 !!!!!

ALL (109) of the countries above America,
HAVE 100% gun bans.

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list, because it has...NO MURDER OCCURRENCE!

However, SWITZERLAND'S law requires that EVERYONE:
1. Own a gun.
2. Maintain Marksman qualifications ... regularly .

Did you learn anything from this??

I think the message is - loud and clear...

GUN bans and restrictions...

DO NOT work!


Ronnie
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:10 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
From the World Health Organization
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens per year.


Honduras 91.6 (WOW!!)
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2
And .........
The United States 4.2 !!!!!

ALL (109) of the countries above America,
HAVE 100% gun bans.

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list, because it has...NO MURDER OCCURRENCE!

However, SWITZERLAND'S law requires that EVERYONE:
1. Own a gun.
2. Maintain Marksman qualifications ... regularly .

Did you learn anything from this??

I think the message is - loud and clear...

GUN bans and restrictions...

DO NOT work!


Ronnie

I wander what this means?!?... Lol


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Old 12-04-2014, 11:42 AM   #254
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I'm really confused myself.

I'm not sure what it means but the World Health Organization is the one's putting out this information.

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Old 12-04-2014, 11:59 AM   #255
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This isn't targeted to anyone or any particular post, but this short book should be required reading for everybody with access to internet forums: https://bookofbadarguments.com/

"An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments". A friend bought me the book in hardcover a couple months ago, but it is available in full for free at the link I gave. Nothing about liberalism/conservatism, no politics, nothing controversial. It's just an introduction to logical reasoning, in a very easy to understand and entertaining format. Teaches about how to evaluate arguments and identify poor logic. Notice how on page 38 it talks about the "slippery slope" argument (which is a "not a cause for a cause" argument, bad logic). Only 64 pages, with pictures on every other page. I finished the whole thing in about an hour. It's currently ranked #1 on Amazon in the Logic & Language category: An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments: Ali Almossawi, Alejandro Giraldo: 9781615192250: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:16 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
From the World Health Organization
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens per year.


Honduras 91.6 (WOW!!)
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2
And .........
The United States 4.2 !!!!!

ALL (109) of the countries above America,
HAVE 100% gun bans.

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list, because it has...NO MURDER OCCURRENCE!

However, SWITZERLAND'S law requires that EVERYONE:
1. Own a gun.
2. Maintain Marksman qualifications ... regularly .

Did you learn anything from this??

I think the message is - loud and clear...

GUN bans and restrictions...

DO NOT work!


Ronnie

Not sure where you are getting that these countries have 100% gun bans -

For example - a basic Wikipedia search on Pakistan shows "Gun politics in Pakistan refers to the wide ownership of firearms in Pakistan. Only tribal areas of the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa permits the ownership of heavy weaponry including the use of rocket-propelled grenades, short, medium, and long-range rockets, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, etc. These heavy weapons may be made in Pakistan."

And again causation does not equal correlation, and so your entire point does not make sense from a logical standpoint. There are factors like poverty, the presence of civil wars, etc. that all impact these numbers. That's one thing people here don't seem to get. I showed you scientific studies linking firearm availability with increased death among children, and a Harvard research summary debunking most of the pro-gun myths.


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Old 12-04-2014, 03:29 PM   #257
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And again causation does not equal correlation, and so your entire point does not make sense from a logical standpoint.
That's right, page 20 from the book I linked to. Screenshot attached. If the pro gun people could point to some data showing the intermediate steps between the increase in firearms and the decrease in murders, their argument would be much stronger. All they have shown is correlation, which does not "prove" anything, logically. Again, I'm not picking a side, just saying what the missing information from the pro-gun people is.


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Old 12-04-2014, 03:52 PM   #258
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#1 Honduras does not have a gun ban. Far from it. Do you have a source saying that all 109 of those countries have a 100% ban on guns, Ronnie? http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/honduras

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Old 12-04-2014, 05:10 PM   #259
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And again causation does not equal correlation, and so your entire point does not make sense from a logical standpoint.

Pretty much what your saying is, people with the ability to defend themselves has No Impact Whatsoever on Violent Crime!..

Perhaps you should take a couple of Psychology Classes!.. Do some research on Who criminals pick as targets, and Why they pick them!..


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Old 12-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #260
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Re-Read the first part and it Plainly states.

From the World Health Organization
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens per year.

If you can comprehend anything at all it say's 'Murders per 100,000 citizens.
It say's nothing about how the murders happened.

Not all murder victims are shot.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
From the World Health Organization
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens per year.

If you can comprehend anything at all it say's 'Murders per 100,000 citizens.
It say's nothing about how the murders happened.

Not all murder victims are shot.
Ronnie
I was asking what is your source for your claim that "ALL (109) of the countries above America HAVE 100% gun bans.", which you put in bold italic letters and was the key, critical part of your argument. We just found that Pakistan and Honduras do not have 100% gun bans. I don't feel like checking the other 107. So.... where did you pull that "fact" from? If you are making such a loud, definitive argument based on that fact, I think you need to defend its validity, or you have lost a lot of credibility.

I'm trying to help you make a stronger argument. If you do the following three things, you will have made a much stronger case against thegreenmachine:

1) back up your claim that the 109 countries that have higher murder rates than the U.S. have 100% gun bans. It seems like that claim is falsified.

2) show data that suggests a causation between increasing firearm sales and decreasing homicides. We have not seen any data like that, although you are repeatedly making this argument.

3) respond to thegreenmachine's polite question a couple days ago asking you why you think repealing the second amendment would lead to us losing all of our rights. The only person who responded to that was Wysh, and he blatantly made the "slippery slope" argument (he called it that himself), which is a poor argument.

There you go. Three simple holes to fill and this debate will no longer be going in circles, as it has been for about 2 weeks now. Maybe then it could become a discussion again, instead of just repeating rhetoric.
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Old 12-04-2014, 09:59 PM   #262
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They just said on the news that on average 24,000 Americans die each year from the flu. Wow! Sick people walking around are killing many of our citizens!


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Old 12-04-2014, 10:19 PM   #263
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I just copied what was written.

I did find this about Pakistan though:
Gun politics in Pakistan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Part of the Politics series
Gun laws by country
Australia Brazil Canada Czech Republic Finland France Germany Honduras Italy Ireland Jamaica Kuwait Mexico New Zealand Norway Pakistan South Africa Switzerland Ukraine United Kingdom United States
Politics portal
v t e
Gun politics in Pakistan refers to the wide ownership of firearms in Pakistan. Only tribal areas of the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa permits the ownership of heavy weaponry including the use of rocket-propelled grenades, short, medium, and long-range rockets, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, etc. These heavy weapons may be made in Pakistan.
The people of the provinces of Punjab and Sindh view the bearing and use of arms as a constitutional right whereas the people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Baluchistan view it as part of their culture. Pakistan is also known for its indigenous gunsmith tradition. A notable centre of gun manufacturing is the town of Darra Adam Khel, near Peshawar, historically known for its Lee Enfield .303 facsimiles. However, the town now produces a broader range of ordnance including AK-47's, mini-Kalashnikovs, and hand-held firearms, including the James Bond pen gun (see Khyber Pass Copy).[1]
Other enduring customs and a strong culture of honor also promote the prevalence and importance of guns. In Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, where the Pashtun residents laud performances of strength and toughness, carrying a Kalashnikov or other gun is a sign of honour and respect. Similarly, much of mainstream Pakistani culture, including Balochi, Sindhi, Punjabi and Kashmiri cultures, is heavily influenced by guns, as evidenced by common practice of aerial firings on special occasions such as weddings. According to Michael Palin, 'For Pakistanis, a gun is a social necessity. Pathans carry guns the way Londoners carry umbrellas.'[2] As such, the broader Pakistani social necessity of portable and displayable wealth takes on an intimidating form among male members of provincial society.

I'm beginning to think you are all right in disarming American citizens and doing away with all firearms. We all will be much safer then and won't have to worry about criminals because they won't have any guns either.
Yep, I'm gonna give up my gun and just keep the police # on my cell phone.
Ronnie
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:36 PM   #264
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I challenge both Sakib and Mr. Green, to prove that the increase in Gun Sales To Law Abiding Citizens, has had Zero Effect on the Decrease in Violent Crimes!..


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Old 12-04-2014, 10:43 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
I did find this about Pakistan though:
Gun politics in Pakistan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Part of the Politics series
Gun laws by country
Australia Brazil Canada Czech Republic Finland France Germany Honduras Italy Ireland Jamaica Kuwait Mexico New Zealand Norway Pakistan South Africa Switzerland Ukraine United Kingdom United States
Politics portal
v t e
Gun politics in Pakistan refers to the wide ownership of firearms in Pakistan. Only tribal areas of the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa permits the ownership of heavy weaponry including the use of rocket-propelled grenades, short, medium, and long-range rockets, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, etc. These heavy weapons may be made in Pakistan.
The people of the provinces of Punjab and Sindh view the bearing and use of arms as a constitutional right whereas the people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Baluchistan view it as part of their culture. Pakistan is also known for its indigenous gunsmith tradition. A notable centre of gun manufacturing is the town of Darra Adam Khel, near Peshawar, historically known for its Lee Enfield .303 facsimiles. However, the town now produces a broader range of ordnance including AK-47's, mini-Kalashnikovs, and hand-held firearms, including the James Bond pen gun (see Khyber Pass Copy).[1]
Other enduring customs and a strong culture of honor also promote the prevalence and importance of guns. In Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, where the Pashtun residents laud performances of strength and toughness, carrying a Kalashnikov or other gun is a sign of honour and respect. Similarly, much of mainstream Pakistani culture, including Balochi, Sindhi, Punjabi and Kashmiri cultures, is heavily influenced by guns, as evidenced by common practice of aerial firings on special occasions such as weddings. According to Michael Palin, 'For Pakistanis, a gun is a social necessity. Pathans carry guns the way Londoners carry umbrellas.'[2] As such, the broader Pakistani social necessity of portable and displayable wealth takes on an intimidating form among male members of provincial society.

I'm beginning to think you are all right in disarming American citizens and doing away with all firearms. We all will be much safer then and won't have to worry about criminals because they won't have any guns either.
Yep, I'm gonna give up my gun and just keep the police # on my cell phone.
Ronnie
This morning you said in giant bold letters that the 109 countries with higher murder rates than the U.S. have 100% gun bans. Then thegreenmachine and I pointed out that Pakistan and Honduras do not have 100% gun bans. We plainly asked you to explain where you got this information about the gun bans. You have totally evaded the question. The World Health Organization is where you got the list of murder rates. Not the claim about the gun bans. Which was the key point of your argument. You have totally evaded this question. I'm not calling you a liar... but I'm questioning where you are getting your information.

I'm seriously not even trying to argue with you. I'm trying to understand you... but you are all over the place. thegreenmachine and I ask you questions to explain yourself, and you fire back with non sequiturs and never answer the original questions directly. I really do respect you and your views, and your wisdom in your age. No disrespect here. But I don't know how I can make my questions any more clear than I did in my previous post where I outlined the three holes in your logic that I am not understanding.

As I have said many many times, I am moderate/undecided on this issue. And as someone who is undecided, just by reading and learning from this thread, thegreenmachine is doing a great job of convincing me that access and availability of guns should be more restricted in the U.S. I can't find a single flaw in his logic. As for the pro-gun logic, I clearly told you guys the three things I don't understand about it, and gave an opportunity to convince me otherwise by explaining those three things. I don't know how much easier I can make it for you. But instead of directly answering those questions, you have come back to the same fallacies, ad hominem attacks, circular reasoning, red herrings, and false dichotomies.

And read this book. Seriously, you'll be done before bedtime. https://bookofbadarguments.com/
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:07 AM   #266
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First off I never said you where a Liberal or anything!..

Secondly, how is me saying every one should have the fundamental right to Self Defense, Idiotic?!?...


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Just to point out another fact Sakib!.. I recall asking you a question that you have yet to answer!.. Let's face it!.. If your going to require others to answer questions, perhaps you should Lead the Way and answer the ones asked of you!..


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Old 12-05-2014, 08:00 AM   #267
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Someone E-Mailed me this information

He or someone else over the course of time probably added their two cents. It happens.
There may even be some other countries that allow gun ownership with or without a permit on that list. I don't know. It is not a list of gun ownership.

The list only gives a murder rate per 100,000 population and not how the murder was committed. It may be knives or poison among any other dreadful tool of extinction.
You can nit-pik anything anyone say's as well as I can.
This is a way of life and all it boils down to is some of us are for gun ownership and some are against gun ownership.

I should have checked the wording that was originally from the World Health Organization but I did not.
Ronnie

PS: I found this, It is not edited by me and just like it is written.
http://badgerlakeobserver.blogspot.c...on-murder.html
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:17 AM   #268
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Okay, thanks Ronnie. The site where you copied that from is somebody's blog. That is not a good source. The words he wrote about the gun bans are his own words, not from the WHO statistics. Also, if you're going to copy somebody else's words verbatim you should attribute it to that person. Of course the WHO would not write "all of these countries have 100% gun bans" in bold italic text, I guarantee you everyone here thought those were your words. In this case, it made you look bad because it was verifiably false. It should have just made the blogger look bad. Not to mention it is spreading misinformation.

Well question #1 turned out to be a lie and no one responded to my other two things that I was trying to understand, so I, a formerly undecided voter, am now for stricter gun control. Congrats, thegreenmachine, you convinced me. ETurner is just trying to argue more, he can't get it through his head that I was asking to understand, not to argue.

Oh. And news flash, people. Being for stricter gun control doesn't mean you are against the second amendment. That is a bad argument, called the "false dichotomy". (Please read the book.) Someone can believe that guns should be harder to obtain legally, with stricter control to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, and not think that the whole country should be totally disarmed.

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Old 12-05-2014, 10:02 AM   #269
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The big problem in America is Guns are easy to obtane

The Criminals will always have guns. When they can't get a gun they use knives or machete's.
There are already laws on the books that call for background checks and waiting periods and these laws work about 90% of the time. They don't stop a crazy lunatic from buying a gun.
Burglars steal guns from peoples houses and cars. A criminal can get a relative or friend to buy them a gun.
Even when they find a convicted felon with a gun all they do is a slap on the wrist, a fine and let them go if the gun was not used in a crime situation.

I do agree that if there were ZERO -0- guns in our country or should I say "WORLD" it would be nice. But that is not the case. They can never ever eliminate all guns in our country so your best protection from home invasions and robbery is to have a gun. You don't have to like owning a gun but it is wise for you to have one and practice using it and also wise to teach your children about it and let them know it is not a toy or to be touched.

Burglary and Home invasion is the absolute worst crime against society anyone can imagine and in my personal opinion the people doing it should be executed for the first offence and not be aloud to live.

Any way you look at it, Having a gun in your home for protection is your best defense if you and your family is at home. If not home your gun should be with you with a concealed carry permit. That way a burglar can not steal it.

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Old 12-05-2014, 10:18 AM   #270
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I do agree that if there were ZERO -0- guns in our country or should I say "WORLD" it would be nice. But that is not the case. They can never ever eliminate all guns in our country so your best protection from home invasions and robbery is to have a gun. You don't have to like owning a gun but it is wise for you to have one and practice using it and also wise to teach your children about it and let them know it is not a toy or to be touched.

Burglary and Home invasion is the absolute worst crime against society anyone can imagine and in my personal opinion the people doing it should be executed for the first offence and not be aloud to live.

Any way you look at it, Having a gun in your home for protection is your best defense if you and your family is at home. If not home your gun should be with you with a concealed carry permit. That way a burglar can not steal it.

Ronnie
I do agree with you on the above points, except about the execution, but overall yes I agree. I would even consider taking your advice and getting a permit to keep a gun in my home to protect against home invasion, since I know I'm capable, mentally stable, and safe. I would not carry it out around with me though. I just think that we should do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of likely criminals, and I also think that assault weapons are unnecessary for home protection, and adding to the problem that the Harvard study pointed to.

Anyway, I do think that I'm finally seeing eye-to-eye with you and understanding you, Ronnie. Of course we don't agree mostly, but I for sure agree with most of your last post.

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Old 12-05-2014, 10:37 AM   #271
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Let's just not fall into the false sense of security that laws stop criminals. They are criminals because they don't follow the law. If laws were followed, we wouldn't have repeat drunk drivers, quite a few with 10 or more convictions.


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Old 12-05-2014, 10:51 AM   #272
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Let's just not fall into the false sense of security that laws stop criminals. They are criminals because they don't follow the law. If laws were followed, we wouldn't have repeat drunk drivers, quite a few with 10 or more convictions.


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Exactly!!! Personally I know a guy who just turned 21 with two DUIs on his record already!..


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Old 12-05-2014, 11:01 AM   #273
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Where do yall store CCWs in this thing?

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Exactly!!! Personally I know a guy who just turned 21 with two DUIs on his record already!..


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Let's see, how many laws were broken here? I'm guessing if he just turned 21, then the violations occurred while he was underage. That's at least two different laws broken for each DUI. We also don't know what he was doing to get pulled over in the first place. Possibly more laws broken?


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Old 12-05-2014, 11:09 AM   #274
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Well question #1 turned out to be a lie and no one responded to my other two things that I was trying to understand, so I, a formerly undecided voter, am now for stricter gun control. Congrats, thegreenmachine, you convinced me. ETurner is just trying to argue more, he can't get it through his head that I was asking to understand, not to argue.

Actually just the opposite!.. I simply pointed out a few facts that you just don't want to look at!.. Then you start Asking another to answer questions asked of that person, yet refuse to answer questions asked of you!.. Sorry but I have very little tolerance for people that expect something of others yet don't hold themselves to the same standard!..

My whole point has always been people should have the right, and ability to defend themselves!.. That is what this thread actually started out as!.. An individual asking for advice as to how and where to conceal in his car!.. Obviously for Self Defense!.. Yet you Keep referring to my argument and points as "Idiotic"!.. So I asked you why you think that?.. Cricket cricket..... No answer.... Lol.


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Old 12-05-2014, 11:12 AM   #275
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Let's see, how many laws were broken here? I'm guessing if he just turned 21, then the violations occurred while he was underage. That's at least two different laws broken for each DUI. We also don't know what he was doing to get pulled over in the first place. Possibly more laws broken?


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The second one he got just after his birthday!.. But yes you are right!.. Multiple laws being broken!.. "Funny" thing is, he is once again out on a Work Release kind of program!..

Has he learned yet?.. I don't think so seeing as he keeps joking about it!..


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Old 12-05-2014, 01:44 PM   #276
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I'm not a good debater, so I stepped back on this conversation, but I need to ask why Sakib, and many other anti-gun people, keep saying that assault weapons aren't needed? I know what you are referring to as an assault weapon, but aren't all weapons used for protection or assaulting someone?

According to the FBI, in 2012, there were only 332 deaths caused by a rifle of any kind. They also acknowledged that anti-gun groups have said that there was virtually no difference in statistics during the assault weapon ban of 1994-2004.

Approximately 11,000 people die each year from guns. Between 5000 - 6000 of those are between black males. That equates to inner city crime, gangs, drug dealers, etc. The other 49% include all the other races involved in those same crimes. An "Assault weapon" only shoots one bullet at a time, just like every other semi-automatic weapon. Rapid fire or full automatic weapons are not what the majority of the population own. Based on that, the so-called "assault-weapons" should include every hand gun made if they are using the AR-15 as a definition of "assault weapon".

Just because the weapon looks military grade, doesn't mean it functions identically. However, handguns used by the military are also sold to civilians. What make the military rifle any more dangerous than a military handgun in the possession of law abiding citizens?

I'd like to know why so many anti-gun folks fear the AR-15 style rifle and call it an "assault weapon"? It's a semi-automatic rifle! Look online for that and you'll find that there are hundreds of semi-auto rifles that look nothing like the military M16, but do the exact same thing.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:23 PM   #277
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Hi Eturner

What are your other two questions?

Please make them simple and a little easy to understand what you want to know.

Ronnie
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:15 PM   #278
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I'm not a good debater, so I stepped back on this conversation, but I need to ask why Sakib, and many other anti-gun people, keep saying that assault weapons aren't needed? I know what you are referring to as an assault weapon, but aren't all weapons used for protection or assaulting someone?

According to the FBI, in 2012, there were only 332 deaths caused by a rifle of any kind. They also acknowledged that anti-gun groups have said that there was virtually no difference in statistics during the assault weapon ban of 1994-2004.

Approximately 11,000 people die each year from guns. Between 5000 - 6000 of those are between black males. That equates to inner city crime, gangs, drug dealers, etc. The other 49% include all the other races involved in those same crimes. An "Assault weapon" only shoots one bullet at a time, just like every other semi-automatic weapon. Rapid fire or full automatic weapons are not what the majority of the population own. Based on that, the so-called "assault-weapons" should include every hand gun made if they are using the AR-15 as a definition of "assault weapon".

Just because the weapon looks military grade, doesn't mean it functions identically. However, handguns used by the military are also sold to civilians. What make the military rifle any more dangerous than a military handgun in the possession of law abiding citizens?

I'd like to know why so many anti-gun folks fear the AR-15 style rifle and call it an "assault weapon"? It's a semi-automatic rifle! Look online for that and you'll find that there are hundreds of semi-auto rifles that look nothing like the military M16, but do the exact same thing.

You may or may not be good at debating, I don't know!.. BUT, you did hit on some Solid facts here!..


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Old 12-06-2014, 09:15 AM   #279
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So there was this Mass Stabbing aboard an Amtrak Train!.. How does Less Guns equal Less Violent Crimes?..


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Old 12-06-2014, 01:52 PM   #280
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A major huge big problem all over the whole wide world

There are crazy nuts that will never be recognized until they do something like a mass shooting, Mass stabbings, and just downright mean stupid acts of violence. It is not a new problem and has been going on since Adam & Eve's son killed his brother.

I just watched a news program where teens would go walking up to a stranger and sucker punch them to see if they can knock a person out with one good punch. It don't even make sense to me why someone would want to do anything like that. I guess they think it is fun or something.

If they could ever get these nuts off the street before they do harm it would be wonderful, But it is totally impossible. They have to actually commit a murder or two or three or more before they can be arrested.
Ronnie
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