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Old 10-22-2014, 08:28 PM   #1
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Virtual Dyno - Compare your tunes

So I realize there is a lot of "which tune is better" on this forum, and sometimes a straight "dyno" isn't always the best way to determine that due to a lot of dynos reading differently, so that got me thinking... A really popular program we used on the Mazda platform was called virtual dyno, which is a program that basically will take a datalog and display your dyno graph from that log (assuming you have logged all the information needed), and could be a very useful tool here.
http://virtualdyno.net/


This program has been very thoroughly tested, and with a good datalog, on a flat, smooth road, we have proven it to be within 3 whp of an actual dyno reading. So, aside from being able to just have a quick pot shot at your dyno numbers, you can also see the most important part; YOUR GRAPH! Also, this tool will allow you to track gains as you go without spending hundreds of dollars on an actual dyno.


To give an example of how this tool can be useful, lets take two cars I am in the process of tuning via email. I am not in the car when these logs are taken, I just have the information they give me to go off.


Lets take a look at this first car for example. Notice anything painfully obvious? The power falls off pretty hard on the top end. This is not something you could likely feel when in the car, but looking at a dyno its plain as day it needs a little more timing up top.



So, now that I have been able to view and study the powerband of this car, along with its datalog, I can now adjust the tune to a proper powerband. Tada







So, that brings me to the point of all this. You can see that it is very possible to track gains for every single mod.


Are shorty headers worth it? Get a datalog from two people and compare.
Is a Throttle body worth it? Get some datalogs
Long tubes vs shortys? We can do that too, get some datalogs. You can see its possible to even compare multiple logs on the same graph.





This can be a very powerful tool for this forum to track gains, not only for yourself, but on controversial parts as a whole. I know several of you have datalogs that you have sent to your tuners, so I'm throwing down a challenge.
Battle your virtual dyno ! So far, it looks like VD only supports the standard v6, but I am working with the developer on getting some support for the autos. Also, it says 19s, but Virtual dyno gives you the ability to adjust your tire height, so you can compensate for 17s or 18s.


I'll start, heres my 5.0 taken from earlier in September.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:20 PM   #2
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I was just looking for something like this. I will need to compare my bama and not tune

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---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

Mpt *

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Old 10-22-2014, 09:49 PM   #3
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Just remember that your outputs are only as good as your inputs. Try to find a smooth road so wheel spin and bumps wont skew the graphs. Once you have a good road its encouraged to always use that same road for the sake of consistency.


Feel free to throw the graphs up here when you're done man, you can never have too much information on things like this.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:58 PM   #4
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I will be sure to do that. Just waiting to get the mpt tune back and for the roads to dry up. It will be a slightly unfair comparison because my Mpt tune has been datalogged a little bit. Where do I find what pids to log for the dyno?
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:47 PM   #5
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I was looking into tuners and was about to go with the sct x4. Do you know if I can use x4 data with this program?

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Old 10-23-2014, 10:48 PM   #6
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It lists sct. The guy who runs it appears to be very open to making it as user friendly as possible.

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Old 10-24-2014, 07:30 AM   #7
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I will be sure to do that. Just waiting to get the mpt tune back and for the roads to dry up. It will be a slightly unfair comparison because my Mpt tune has been datalogged a little bit. Where do I find what pids to log for the dyno?
As far as i know, everything VD needs is something your tuner wants to see anyways:

off the top of my head, it needs:
time
mph
rpm
throttle position

it will also display Boost and/or AFR as you can see with my mazda graphs, although i cant seem to get it to display AFR for my mustang. However, if you try to load a log that is missing information, it will often times tell you what it needs.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:33 PM   #8
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Very nice! By any chance were you able to load my Datalog into the vurtual dyno? (it feels weird calling it VD....)
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:26 PM   #9
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This looks like an awesome program to mess around with.

I've got to find a good smooth stretch of road to try this out!
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:33 PM   #10
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This does look awesome. Now all I need is a tuner

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Old 10-25-2014, 08:34 AM   #11
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Very nice! By any chance were you able to load my Datalog into the vurtual dyno? (it feels weird calling it VD....)
I could not actually, it was giving me some grief, and I haven't gotten back to it. It looks like that log was several minutes long though, so VD might have just not liked the size of the file. Typically start, floor it, end is the best way to get logs since the SCT records dozens of lines per second.
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Old 10-25-2014, 08:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
I could not actually, it was giving me some grief, and I haven't gotten back to it. It looks like that log was several minutes long though, so VD might have just not liked the size of the file. Typically start, floor it, end is the best way to get logs since the SCT records dozens of lines per second.
I was actually just looking at my log practicing freezing colums and rows and trying to look into what you were mentioning about LTFT (.94-.95 across the board while WOT in that log) but ya its huge. It has over 15 mins of data. I did 2-3 mins in idle, 5 mins of normal driving then 2-3 WOT pulls. It's cool to kind of be able to see all that and sort of remember what you did. Im going to be making another log tomorrow. When I get the one for BAMA done I'll make just a quick WOT log for you.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:09 AM   #13
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Will definitely check this one out! Thanks voltwings! 😄

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Old 10-25-2014, 10:21 AM   #14
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I could not actually, it was giving me some grief, and I haven't gotten back to it. It looks like that log was several minutes long though, so VD might have just not liked the size of the file. Typically start, floor it, end is the best way to get logs since the SCT records dozens of lines per second.
When I tried to use SCT logs it wouldn't accept any logs that had more than just the Time, RPM and throttle position PIDs logged. Thus I haven't gotten a chance to actually check this out as I need to run some logs with just that for VD.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:56 AM   #15
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I was actually just looking at my log practicing freezing colums and rows and trying to look into what you were mentioning about LTFT (.94-.95 across the board while WOT in that log) but ya its huge. It has over 15 mins of data. I did 2-3 mins in idle, 5 mins of normal driving then 2-3 WOT pulls. It's cool to kind of be able to see all that and sort of remember what you did. Im going to be making another log tomorrow. When I get the one for BAMA done I'll make just a quick WOT log for you.


Ahh, the multiple pulls is what was messing it up. Just a single 3rd gear will suffice.

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When I tried to use SCT logs it wouldn't accept any logs that had more than just the Time, RPM and throttle position PIDs logged. Thus I haven't gotten a chance to actually check this out as I need to run some logs with just that for VD.


Hmm... its letting me upload my logs just as they are, but you could always just delete the extraneous columns? I remember having to do that on older versions of this software, but I haven't had to do that lately.
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:25 PM   #16
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The logs are just comma separated values, you can trim them in excel then re-save and load in virtual dyno.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:10 AM   #17
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I did a few datalogs for my mpt tune this evening. First one was going wot in gear 3 from about 2400 rpms all the way to 7020. However, virtual dyno could not detect any WOT data. WTF?! Luckily, I also did another datalog (mpt 3 file) to replicate a 1/4 mile run: gear 1-2-3, from dead stop to 7020. Uploaded this data into virtual dyno and it gave me a retarded graph. Possibly because it accounted for drop in rpms while shifting gears.

Volt/Sakib/everyone else: I have attached my datalog files in excel spreadsheet format, else it wouldn't attach. Can you make out anything out of it? Maybe somehow get an actual linear graph using this data?

PS: pay closer attention from 6000- 6400 rpm or so. HP and TQ are on a decline till 6400 and then it starts pulling hard again.

Mods: CAI, Tune, and 80 TB (not yet accounted for in the tune).
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:47 AM   #18
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The logs are just comma separated values, you can trim them in excel then re-save and load in virtual dyno.
Tried that last night and still didn't work
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
I did a few datalogs for my mpt tune this evening. First one was going wot in gear 3 from about 2400 rpms all the way to 7020. However, virtual dyno could not detect any WOT data. WTF?! Luckily, I also did another datalog (mpt 3 file) to replicate a 1/4 mile run: gear 1-2-3, from dead stop to 7020. Uploaded this data into virtual dyno and it gave me a retarded graph. Possibly because it accounted for drop in rpms while shifting gears.

Volt/Sakib/everyone else: I have attached my datalog files in excel spreadsheet format, else it wouldn't attach. Can you make out anything out of it? Maybe somehow get an actual linear graph using this data?

PS: pay closer attention from 6000- 6400 rpm or so. HP and TQ are on a decline till 6400 and then it starts pulling hard again.

Mods: CAI, Tune, and 80 TB (not yet accounted for in the tune).

Lol yes, keep in mind its programmed for a single gear pull, multiple gear pulls will make it all sorts of whacky. When i get home this afternoon i'll try it with one of your logs. Which SCT are you using?
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:55 AM   #20
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Tried that last night and still didn't work
Same. Tried trimming a few logs but still didn't work.

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Old 10-27-2014, 08:58 AM   #21
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Lol yes, keep in mind its programmed for a single gear pull, multiple gear pulls will make it all sorts of whacky. When i get home this afternoon i'll try it with one of your logs. Which SCT are you using?
Datalog 1 is actually a single gear pull from 2400 to 7020, yet virtual dyno couldn't detect any wot data. Could be because I didn't punch right away when I started recording my data, and that I let go gas for a few seconds before clicking stop button?

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Old 10-27-2014, 09:14 AM   #22
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Datalog 1 is actually a single gear pull from 2400 to 7020, yet virtual dyno couldn't detect any wot data. Could be because I didn't punch right away when I started recording my data, and that I let go gas for a few seconds before clicking stop button?

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No, it will trim the data to your WOT sections (thats why it wants throttle position in the log). Its possible your just arent using the right file type... Strange that it would accept the multiple gear log but not the single gear log though.

I just remembered i brought my laptop to work today, so i'll bust it out on my lunch hour and try to see whats going on with these logs for yall. The only thing i can see confusing it in your log would be both Actual throttle angle and Desired throttle angle, since you can actually see they're slightly different at some point. I'll basically try deleting all the data except what VD wants and will go from there.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:00 AM   #23
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Me and Shunc01 datalogged his car and he later tried this several times last night. im not sure whats wrong but he keep Throttle actual, rpm, speed (not sure what else) but he deleted all but the one WOT pull we did in 3rd and it still didnt read it correctly.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:15 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
I did a few datalogs for my mpt tune this evening. First one was going wot in gear 3 from about 2400 rpms all the way to 7020. However, virtual dyno could not detect any WOT data. WTF?! Luckily, I also did another datalog (mpt 3 file) to replicate a 1/4 mile run: gear 1-2-3, from dead stop to 7020. Uploaded this data into virtual dyno and it gave me a retarded graph. Possibly because it accounted for drop in rpms while shifting gears.

Volt/Sakib/everyone else: I have attached my datalog files in excel spreadsheet format, else it wouldn't attach. Can you make out anything out of it? Maybe somehow get an actual linear graph using this data?

PS: pay closer attention from 6000- 6400 rpm or so. HP and TQ are on a decline till 6400 and then it starts pulling hard again.

Mods: CAI, Tune, and 80 TB (not yet accounted for in the tune).




Ok, looking at MPT 1, I notice a few things that are off.
1. It looks like you didn't go WOT at 2400, but instead kind of rolled into the throttle. Your Throttle angle actual doesn't go to 80% until about 3500, so that will mess it up, you basically have to be WOT in order for VD to view it as useful data.


2. Between like 4000 and 5600 your throttle angle actual was only at about 20%, so that kind of messed things up as well. If I go in and hard code (basically delete the Throttle column and just type in 82) It will give you the graph I attached, which obviously does make it look like you came off the throttle during the mid range I listed above.


Were you flat the whole time? Was this log uphill or downhill at all? Basically this software uses MPH, and rpm to see how fast you are accelerating vs time to calculate hp, so you have to give it good data to go off of.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintile View Post
Me and Shunc01 datalogged his car and he later tried this several times last night. im not sure whats wrong but he keep Throttle actual, rpm, speed (not sure what else) but he deleted all but the one WOT pull we did in 3rd and it still didnt read it correctly.

Post the log(s) here and I will see if there are any issues like the above.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:26 AM   #25
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Hey volt.. I'm very curious about this like Fintile said we data log yesterday but for some reason the virtual dyno won't let load the data and I trimmed the file already down to time, rpm and throttle position. Can I just send you my data log through email? If that okay with you.. Thanks volt.

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Old 10-27-2014, 11:30 AM   #26
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Hey volt.. I'm very curious about this like Fintile said we data log yesterday but for some reason the virtual dyno won't let load the data and I trimmed the file already down to time, rpm and throttle position. Can I just send you my data log through email? If that okay with you.. Thanks volt.

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you forgot MPH, the software needs to know how fast you're accelerating VS rpm and time to make it relevant.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:39 AM   #27
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you forgot MPH, the software needs to know how fast you're accelerating VS rpm and time to make it relevant.
Okay I didn't include that I will try it again tonight after work. The only reason why I didn't include it cos when i first loaded the file this is what it asked: if the file does not have time, throttle position and rpm you can't load this file or somewhere along those lines didn't say anything about Mph.

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Old 10-27-2014, 03:26 PM   #28
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Ok, looking at MPT 1, I notice a few things that are off.
1. It looks like you didn't go WOT at 2400, but instead kind of rolled into the throttle. Your Throttle angle actual doesn't go to 80% until about 3500, so that will mess it up, you basically have to be WOT in order for VD to view it as useful data.


2. Between like 4000 and 5600 your throttle angle actual was only at about 20%, so that kind of messed things up as well. If I go in and hard code (basically delete the Throttle column and just type in 82) It will give you the graph I attached, which obviously does make it look like you came off the throttle during the mid range I listed above.


Were you flat the whole time? Was this log uphill or downhill at all? Basically this software uses MPH, and rpm to see how fast you are accelerating vs time to calculate hp, so you have to give it good data to go off of.







Post the log(s) here and I will see if there are any issues like the above.
Yeah I didn't go WOT right from the moment I started dataloging it - i was merging onto a closed road, sort of stayed in that range to see I have a clear path to accelerate, and then punched it.

Also If i remember correctly, I might might not have going full wot till redline after I punched it . I looking around for popos lol it was straight 'closed' road though.

Ps: is data from mpt 3 any useful? Like if you can hard code it to come up with a better graph?

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Old 10-27-2014, 04:15 PM   #29
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Yeah I didn't go WOT right from the moment I started dataloging it - i was merging onto a closed road, sort of stayed in that range to see I have a clear path to accelerate, and then punched it.

Also If i remember correctly, I might might not have going full wot till redline after I punched it . I looking around for popos lol it was straight 'closed' road though.

Ps: is data from mpt 3 any useful? Like if you can hard code it to come up with a better graph?

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if MPT 3 is where you did the multiple gear pulls, then no I cannot, because the software will only accept 3rd or 4th gear, and if you shift into 1 of those gears instead of starting at low rpms it will be whacky as well. You basically have to treat this like a dyno pull: Start, WOT, Stop.
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:59 PM   #30
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Submitted the data log to Mpt and got reply already they're reviewing my log in 3 days.. Will see if there is any difference..

Borla touring, airraid Cai, Mac ceramic shorty headers, frrp x pipe, 2010 gt500 rims, 35 % tint and more to come..
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:46 PM   #31
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I emailed MPT last night with my datalogs and such, haven't heard back from them yet. I have to email/call them again tomorrow morning to make sure they received it.

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Old 10-28-2014, 06:56 AM   #32
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I emailed MPT last night with my datalogs and such, haven't heard back from them yet. I have to email/call them again tomorrow morning to make sure they received it.

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Did you attached the last email from them? They usually email right away if you attached the last email if not I would call them or wait later this afternoon. I don't think Ken is there anymore the lead calibrator.

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Old 10-28-2014, 09:41 AM   #33
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Yeah I received an email from mpt this morning, I did write back using their last email to me.

What makes you say Ken ain't their lead calibrator no more? Like did they tell you your tunes will be written by xyz person? Reason being the email I received regarding my datalogs for 80mm throttle body was from Ken, and it was this past friday.

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Old 10-28-2014, 09:48 AM   #34
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Okay I didn't include that I will try it again tonight after work. The only reason why I didn't include it cos when i first loaded the file this is what it asked: if the file does not have time, throttle position and rpm you can't load this file or somewhere along those lines didn't say anything about Mph.

Borla touring, airraid Cai, Mac ceramic shorty headers, frrp x pipe, 2010 gt500 rims, 35 % tint and more to come..
Did you get a chance to do it last night?
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:10 AM   #35
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Did you attached the last email from them? They usually email right away if you attached the last email if not I would call them or wait later this afternoon. I don't think Ken is there anymore the lead calibrator.

Borla touring, airraid Cai, Mac ceramic shorty headers, frrp x pipe, 2010 gt500 rims, 35 % tint and more to come..
Ken is definitely still there. The first log I sent Ken replied and let me know I was in queue. The 2 logs I've sent after that tho I haven't gotten a response, but a couple of days later a revised tune shows up in my inbox so I wouldn't worry.

I'm in the process of dialing in my 93 perf tune. Mike did the V2 update and Ken just did the V3 update himself last week. Just sent him back the logs for the V3 update yesterday, probably just about entirely dialed in. We'll see if Ken comes back with another update.
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