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Old 11-08-2014, 04:27 PM   #1
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Watt's Links

So the only one I've seen so far was the Whiteline kit, which is on my build list. But now I see Steeda came out with one here:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...776210&alt=web

I like how this one clears the diff cover, but you do either have to retain the stock rear sway bar or go to the Steeda one.

By comparison the Whiteline attaches directly to the diff, which seems stronger to me, but I don't like that it puts stress on the diff.

But I like the simplicity of this one. Any thoughts?

Here's a link for comparison:

Whiteline Complete Watts Link Rear Mustang Suspension KDT916 (05-14 Coupe) - Free Shipping - AmericanMuscle


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Old 11-08-2014, 06:32 PM   #2
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The only thing I don't like about the Whiteline is the single shear bolts on the propeller. That and I have heard or 2 or 3 failures on them.
The Steeda with the $400 below list looks like a good deal and I wish I had the $900 to buy it myself.
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Old 11-09-2014, 12:19 PM   #3
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I'm getting their watts link whenever I start suspension

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Old 11-09-2014, 12:25 PM   #4
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Griggsracing
I'm getting their watts link whenever I start suspension

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+1 on Griggs.

There is also Cortex. They are pretty good.


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Old 11-09-2014, 12:45 PM   #5
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I'll have to check those out. I want to plan ahead so I know which ones will or will not clear what rear sway bar and so forth.

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Old 11-09-2014, 03:14 PM   #6
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+1 on Griggs.

There is also Cortex. They are pretty good.


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Agreed!

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Old 11-10-2014, 09:58 AM   #7
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All else being equal, from a physics standpoint I prefer a watts link that mounts the pivot to the chassis for two main reasons. The first being the roll moment between the roll center and the center of gravity. When the pivot is mounted to the axle, the rear roll center is fixed relative to the ground while the front roll center typically moves more closely with the chassis. When the pivot is mounted to the chassis, the roll center moves with the chassis and maintains a constant roll moment that more closely matches the front roll moment. The second being the bump axis. When the pivot is mounted to the axle, the bump axis rolls away from vertical along with the chassis. This means that the chassis moves diagonally with the angle of body roll when encountering bumps in a corner, and that lateral forces combined with body roll in a corner will try to slightly lift the rear suspension. When the pivot is mounted to the chassis, the bump axis stays vertical.

Of course, as the old adage goes, any suspension will work if you don't let it. Thus the less the suspension is allowed to move, the less of an effect either of these will have. These also realistically aren't going to be a major issued on street cars, even if by virtue of the softer suspension rates they also technically are more affected by it. The other consideration is that all else is rarely equal, and a better implemented axle mounted Watts link will probably still be better in the long run than a more poorly implemented chassis mounted Watts link.
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #8
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I'll disagree with my personal "engineering" opinions (i didnt put that in quotes to mock you, i'm just not an actual engineer ).

In my mind i prefer the Diff mounted for 1 (really 2, but i'll get to that later) reason; simplicity. The diff mounted has fewer moving parts, and fewer extra parts, saving both weight, and having to add fewer external parts. Also, the Griggs and cortex kits (it has been quite some time since i looked, dont quote me on this) drill into the Factory diff. Whiteline, as far as i know, is the only company that offers a completely new Diff cover designed to work with their Watts link, so that works for me.

Reason 2 is this guy runs a whiteline, and after reading their build ups and blogs, thats reason enough for me haha. Vorshlag Blog | BMW, Misubishi, Subaru Racing Events, Tech Talk, Parts Specials and more! They're extremely competitive with their 5.0 in the Texas area and honestly win quite often. That to me, sells parts. I actually run their brake ducts on my 5.0, but alas, speaks nothing of the quality of the other kits.
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:33 PM   #9
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If that's disagreement, I need to spend more time around here.

I was simply sharing background and observations about how the Watts link functions in general, while you were offering opinions regarding application specific implementations. I see nothing incompatible between the two. I certainly don't pretend to know enough about these particular cars at this point, to be able to offer my own informed opinion on the ways in which all else is not equal across the available options.
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:47 AM   #10
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One of the huge advantages to the Whiteline system that Vorshlag so successfully uses is that you are not limited on options on sway bar, which is an issue with both the Steeda and Fays2 systems. The Whiteline also has an advantage over the Fays2 for daily driving in that it does not have four very large Heim joints (read as much quieter, and less vibration transmitted), and is significantly easier to set up. However, I am very pleased with my Fays2 watts link, and have been able to very successfully run mine with the Stranoparts rear bar (I was 0.9 seconds behind a very skilled driver in a new 911 GT3 on a very technical 82 second road course). That said, I have a not insignificant amount of noise from the Heim joints, they do not like the combination of salt spray, coal dust, and temperature swings in my area, and need regular lubing. It is a bit more robust than the Whiteline though, mine survived me allowing a friend to drive the first 2014 mustang that I had this watts link mounted to, and he promptly rolled the car. Vorshlag had a slight issue on a single occasion with something shearing when they caught the leading edge of a rather tall rumble strip on a road course at speed (probably not a problem that would be easy to replicate, more likely a freak incident more than anything).

I also run several Vorshlag parts on my car, and have been extremely satisfied with the result.
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
If that's disagreement, I need to spend more time around here.

I was simply sharing background and observations about how the Watts link functions in general, while you were offering opinions regarding application specific implementations. I see nothing incompatible between the two. I certainly don't pretend to know enough about these particular cars at this point, to be able to offer my own informed opinion on the ways in which all else is not equal across the available options.

Oh no, i understand your argument completely, i probably should have acknowledged that. Like i said, i just prefer the "more simple" approach. I also have a lot of BMR parts on my car, but looking at their chassis mount Watts link, it just looks ... excessive? I guess is the right word, a lot of it just looks unnecessary (although it surely is necessary).
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Old 11-11-2014, 05:28 PM   #12
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One of the huge advantages to the Whiteline system that Vorshlag so successfully uses is that you are not limited on options on sway bar, which is an issue with both the Steeda and Fays2 systems. The Whiteline also has an advantage over the Fays2 for daily driving in that it does not have four very large Heim joints (read as much quieter, and less vibration transmitted), and is significantly easier to set up. However, I am very pleased with my Fays2 watts link, and have been able to very successfully run mine with the Stranoparts rear bar (I was 0.9 seconds behind a very skilled driver in a new 911 GT3 on a very technical 82 second road course). That said, I have a not insignificant amount of noise from the Heim joints, they do not like the combination of salt spray, coal dust, and temperature swings in my area, and need regular lubing. It is a bit more robust than the Whiteline though, mine survived me allowing a friend to drive the first 2014 mustang that I had this watts link mounted to, and he promptly rolled the car. Vorshlag had a slight issue on a single occasion with something shearing when they caught the leading edge of a rather tall rumble strip on a road course at speed (probably not a problem that would be easy to replicate, more likely a freak incident more than anything).

I also run several Vorshlag parts on my car, and have been extremely satisfied with the result.
That's what I was thinking as far as simplicity on the whiteline. Very streamlined and strong design.

The Steeda I posted at the beginning just looks like a nightmare to work with or diagnose if there are issues.

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Old 11-11-2014, 05:32 PM   #13
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The Cortex does come with a diff cover

http://www.cortexracing.com/shop/xtr...m-street-2005/
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Old 11-11-2014, 05:38 PM   #14
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The Cortex does come with a diff cover

http://www.cortexracing.com/shop/xtr...m-street-2005/
Looks pretty similar to the Whiteline. I wish they had other pictures there.

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Old 11-11-2014, 08:24 PM   #15
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This is one of the Whiteline Failures WWW.S197FORUM.COM
Not something I want to have to worry about going around a corner in the mountains with a 500 foot drop next to me.
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:39 PM   #16
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Interesting.
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:56 PM   #17
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While there is a bit more involved in setting up the Fays2 watts link, and a bit more noise, it did survive an extremely violent crash, and is on the new car (race tested on both cars, and both were also daily driven). However it does limit you to the Strano (Hellwig) sway bar (the factory bar along with the majority of the aftermarket ones will not fit due to clearance issues with the watts link frame, I have heard that the steeda bar fits, but I have no personal experience with that combination, so I have no opinion on that), and also prevents the use of lower control arm relocation brackets due to sway bar clearance issues (I am not allowed relocation brackets on the lowers due to class restrictions, so it is not a problem).
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Old 11-11-2014, 08:59 PM   #18
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Yikes ... the Relos are pretty important for handling in and of themselves... not sure how i feel about that.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:04 PM   #19
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Yikes ... the Relos are pretty important for handling in and of themselves... not sure how i feel about that.
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Here is your answer ^
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:14 PM   #20
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I'll disagree with my personal "engineering" opinions (i didnt put that in quotes to mock you, i'm just not an actual engineer ).

In my mind i prefer the Diff mounted for 1 (really 2, but i'll get to that later) reason; simplicity. The diff mounted has fewer moving parts, and fewer extra parts, saving both weight, and having to add fewer external parts. Also, the Griggs and cortex kits (it has been quite some time since i looked, dont quote me on this) drill into the Factory diff. Whiteline, as far as i know, is the only company that offers a completely new Diff cover designed to work with their Watts link, so that works for me.

Reason 2 is this guy runs a whiteline, and after reading their build ups and blogs, thats reason enough for me haha. Vorshlag Blog | BMW, Misubishi, Subaru Racing Events, Tech Talk, Parts Specials and more! They're extremely competitive with their 5.0 in the Texas area and honestly win quite often. That to me, sells parts. I actually run their brake ducts on my 5.0, but alas, speaks nothing of the quality of the other kits.
Gonna quote you on this, but only to enhance your knowledge :p
The Griggs unit doesn't drill into the factory diff cover, it requires an all new diff cover.

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Old 11-11-2014, 09:17 PM   #21
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Well ****, i work with a guy who i could have sworn said his was drilled in but i couldnt remember if he had Cortex or Griggs. Maybe it was an old kit or im losing my mind, but it appears they all come with new diff covers now.
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:27 PM   #22
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Well ****, i work with a guy who i could have sworn said his was drilled in but i couldnt remember if he had Cortex or Griggs. Maybe it was an old kit or im losing my mind, but it appears they all come with new diff covers now.

That's even better!!!!!!

Well not the losing your mind part, but that's easy to cope with LOL


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Old 11-11-2014, 10:21 PM   #23
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That's even better!!!!!!

Well not the losing your mind part, but that's easy to cope with LOL


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