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Old 02-04-2015, 08:12 PM   #141
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The thing is with a brand new car your never going to have years of data. You basically have to go by thr brand/ shops reputation.

Although aside from pipes rusting or welds cracking there isn't going to be a night and day difference between these kits with the exception of the type and size of the turbo. What is going to make or break you is how well it is tuned.


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Old 02-04-2015, 09:06 PM   #142
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^^ The devil is usually in the details. Its the small things that add up, fittings, lines, couplers, clamps ... All of these things can be compromised and will easily have a large swing in the price of a kit. Sure, you can get by with the cheap things, and its also very possible to WAY over build something. I'm probably one of the few people here who has actually pieced together a few turbo systems and i can honestly say i will never do it again. The headaches, time, and honestly just having to re-buy things because you cheaped out just get old after a while. You gotta pay to play, just do it right the first time.

Lets say fastening two boards together, you have 3 options:
1. lots and lots of wood glue. Its the cheapest, the easiest, and for most people, will hold their boards together fine.
2. Build a giant mechanical rig of c-clamps that will equally spread the clamp load over both edges of the boards simultaneously, thus ensuring no stress or separation. Obviously over kill, and pointless for 90% of owners, but it will work right?
3. Just put a few nails and call it a day. This is obviously the middle ground, the best of both cheap and practical.


You guys are essentially arguing these points ^^ Not wanting to pay $5,000 for a kit is understandable, its $5,000. That being said, i'd rather spend $5,000 than ... $3,500 - $4,000 or so and be pissed off when i end up having to replace all the little quirky things because they don't work. That also forces you to assume you are GETTING $5,000 worth of kit. Typically companies that sell for quality are known for it, and companies that sell cheap are known for that as well. The $4000 Twin turbo ON3 system for the 5.0 is the perfect example. I've also had some quirks with 3.7 procharger kits i've worked on so ... you just gotta factor in the fact that you're going to be spending more than what you expected regardless.
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:03 AM   #143
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^^ The devil is usually in the details. Its the small things that add up, fittings, lines, couplers, clamps ... All of these things can be compromised and will easily have a large swing in the price of a kit. Sure, you can get by with the cheap things, and its also very possible to WAY over build something. I'm probably one of the few people here who has actually pieced together a few turbo systems and i can honestly say i will never do it again. The headaches, time, and honestly just having to re-buy things because you cheaped out just get old after a while. You gotta pay to play, just do it right the first time.

Lets say fastening two boards together, you have 3 options:
1. lots and lots of wood glue. Its the cheapest, the easiest, and for most people, will hold their boards together fine.
2. Build a giant mechanical rig of c-clamps that will equally spread the clamp load over both edges of the boards simultaneously, thus ensuring no stress or separation. Obviously over kill, and pointless for 90% of owners, but it will work right?
3. Just put a few nails and call it a day. This is obviously the middle ground, the best of both cheap and practical.


You guys are essentially arguing these points ^^ Not wanting to pay $5,000 for a kit is understandable, its $5,000. That being said, i'd rather spend $5,000 than ... $3,500 - $4,000 or so and be pissed off when i end up having to replace all the little quirky things because they don't work. That also forces you to assume you are GETTING $5,000 worth of kit. Typically companies that sell for quality are known for it, and companies that sell cheap are known for that as well. The $4000 Twin turbo ON3 system for the 5.0 is the perfect example. I've also had some quirks with 3.7 procharger kits i've worked on so ... you just gotta factor in the fact that you're going to be spending more than what you expected regardless.
not wanting to pay 5k on a kit is not the issue I see. Its 5k for an unknown kit and builder. Its 5k for unknown quality and years of field testing with thousands of miles on it.
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Old 02-08-2015, 01:58 PM   #144
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not wanting to pay 5k on a kit is not the issue I see. Its 5k for an unknown kit and builder. Its 5k for unknown quality and years of field testing with thousands of miles on it.
Yeah....we're saying that's the risk you take. End of story, no one is forcing people to buy the kits, they know what they're getting into.

That being said, I would rather buy a fully well built kit with all the bells and whistles even if it costs a pretty penny, save up, it's a ****ing turbo not a Cold Air Intake.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:16 PM   #145
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Yeah....we're saying that's the risk you take. End of story, no one is forcing people to buy the kits, they know what they're getting into.



That being said, I would rather buy a fully well built kit with all the bells and whistles even if it costs a pretty penny, save up, it's a ****ing turbo not a Cold Air Intake.

Agee 100%. Fact is some people should just not mod their cars to this level without being aware of what they are doing. Modifications like this significant change the whole dynamics of the car. And unless your somewhat knowledgeable on what your doing your better off having a shop do it all. Like you said it's not a cold air intake and can cause harm to your car if not done right. Reminds me in one of the other threads On a v6 turbo where someone asked if they need a tune with the kit and a few other basic install questions. I'm all for people coming to these forums to learn but if you have to seriously ask those questions you should not be installing a turbo on your car at this time.


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Old 02-08-2015, 10:24 PM   #146
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Agee 100%. Fact is some people should just not mod their cars to this level without being aware of what they are doing. Modifications like this significant change the whole dynamics of the car. And unless your somewhat knowledgeable on what your doing your better off having a shop do it all. Like you said it's not a cold air intake and can cause harm to your car if not done right. Reminds me in one of the other threads On a v6 turbo where someone asked if they need a tune with the kit and a few other basic install questions. I'm all for people coming to these forums to learn but if you have to seriously ask those questions you should not be installing a turbo on your car at this time.


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To be honest those people who ask those questions won't ever go through with it anyway lol.

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Old 02-08-2015, 11:28 PM   #147
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To be honest those people who ask those questions won't ever go through with it anyway lol.

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^^ I agree.


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Old 02-09-2015, 03:42 PM   #148
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You guys be the test mules and keep me and the rest of us posted 4 years from now. Lol!
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Old 02-09-2015, 03:50 PM   #149
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You guys have officially convinced me not to get a Turbo. Thanks a lot. Lol However, I just purchased a D1SC Procharger, which seems like the smartest route to go as of right now. Got a killer deal too! Bought it from a guy Basically brand new, never installed it. Got it for $3k with injectors and boost gauge!

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Old 02-09-2015, 03:51 PM   #150
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Post pics as we all love great deals.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:19 PM   #151
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You guys have officially convinced me not to get a Turbo. Thanks a lot. Lol However, I just purchased a D1SC Procharger, which seems like the smartest route to go as of right now. Got a killer deal too! Bought it from a guy Basically brand new, never installed it. Got it for $3k with injectors and boost gauge!

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Dude. Come on man. I need you to test the turbo kit out for me and see if your engine blows up. Ha ha ha.

Congrats on the procharger
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:09 PM   #152
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I've recently picked up a Miata, and i wont lie lol its kinda slow, so i've been browsing turbo kits. I think i've come across something that can easily be applied to this kit, as i'll show below.

Take this turbo kit for example, this company calls it the "shanghai special." Its a cheap, Chinese turbo, the bare minimum of parts, just meant to give you a little extra pep on the road.



However, if you look further down the page, there is a disclaimer:
Stainless Braided Coolant Lines: The BEGi-S comes with rubber coolant and oil lines. It is an economical solution, but you should expect to change them out regularly. They will wear faster from the heat. You can upgrade to stainless oil supply and coolant lines for durability and reliability. The upgrade includes a stainless oil supply line and two stainless coolant lines
plus related fittings.


So basically they tell you they're cutting costs by putting some of it on you, the end user. There are quite a few of these options, so if i end up checking them all, such as including a BOV and means of boost control, an intercooler! stainless steel instead of mild... you end up with the new price of:



And that is what i would call a BARE minimum to keep this kit on the road... i think i've made my point, but i can go on to make this (still with a china turbo) kit cost about $5k. Reliability, is going to be what you pay for, and that was kind of what i was getting at earlier, i just dont think a lot of people actually have an appreciation for how many pieces are involved in a turbo kit, they think they're paying $5k for a turbo and intercooler, and its just not the case...

The fact that i can price a decent turbo kit out for a miata to still be ~5k said and done with a Garrett 2560 turbo means the 3.7 crowd is really getting a steal if that's how much this kit ends up costing.

The tune is really the only thing that will determine if your motor is going to blow or not, and really just how much you spend on the supporting pieces is what depends on how long those last.
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:39 PM   #153
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You guys be the test mules and keep me and the rest of us posted 4 years from now. Lol!
You're welcome.
I expect my check in the mail XD

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Old 02-10-2015, 06:01 AM   #154
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You're welcome.
I expect my check in the mail XD

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The check is in the mail sir. 😎 lol
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:35 AM   #155
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I completely agree with everything your saying. That's why I would never pay 4-5k for a brand new hardly field tested unknown system. That's some loot to throw down on a real crap shoot. If someone wants to really get their F.I. system out people testing and using it, that company really needs to sell it for a huge reduced rate.

That's the price of doing business. I would not pay top money for a system that doesn't have years testing and company that has no proven name.

I would gladly pay 6k for a procharger system because their proven and so is the F.I. kits. These new turbo kits should be sold for 3k max for now during testing phase and building a name for themselves

Agree 300%...I ain't buying it without a track record...and a track record you have to earn.


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Old 02-10-2015, 07:46 PM   #156
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My procharger came in today! Everything is perfect and still in the original packaging! Still can't believe i got such a good deal! He even sent me extra belts and guages/pods Virtually brand new!

I'm not sure if you could tell; but i'm REALLY friggin' excited 😉😎

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Old 02-10-2015, 09:18 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
I've recently picked up a Miata, and i wont lie lol its kinda slow, so i've been browsing turbo kits. I think i've come across something that can easily be applied to this kit, as i'll show below.

Take this turbo kit for example, this company calls it the "shanghai special." Its a cheap, Chinese turbo, the bare minimum of parts, just meant to give you a little extra pep on the road.



However, if you look further down the page, there is a disclaimer:
Stainless Braided Coolant Lines: The BEGi-S comes with rubber coolant and oil lines. It is an economical solution, but you should expect to change them out regularly. They will wear faster from the heat. You can upgrade to stainless oil supply and coolant lines for durability and reliability. The upgrade includes a stainless oil supply line and two stainless coolant lines
plus related fittings.


So basically they tell you they're cutting costs by putting some of it on you, the end user. There are quite a few of these options, so if i end up checking them all, such as including a BOV and means of boost control, an intercooler! stainless steel instead of mild... you end up with the new price of:



And that is what i would call a BARE minimum to keep this kit on the road... i think i've made my point, but i can go on to make this (still with a china turbo) kit cost about $5k. Reliability, is going to be what you pay for, and that was kind of what i was getting at earlier, i just dont think a lot of people actually have an appreciation for how many pieces are involved in a turbo kit, they think they're paying $5k for a turbo and intercooler, and its just not the case...

The fact that i can price a decent turbo kit out for a miata to still be ~5k said and done with a Garrett 2560 turbo means the 3.7 crowd is really getting a steal if that's how much this kit ends up costing.

The tune is really the only thing that will determine if your motor is going to blow or not, and really just how much you spend on the supporting pieces is what depends on how long those last.
Well if you got the Miata and it is beggin for some power there are a pair of them down here in South Florida a while ago that had a LS1 swap and the other had a 2JZ swap.

Very cute.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:32 AM   #158
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Well if you got the Miata and it is beggin for some power there are a pair of them down here in South Florida a while ago that had a LS1 swap and the other had a 2JZ swap.

Very cute.
How do you fit an ls1 into a Miata?! If you can fit that then why not just drop a 5.0 or GT500 motor in there?
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:35 AM   #159
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How do you fit an ls1 into a Miata?! If you can fit that then why not just drop a 5.0 or GT500 motor in there?

I dont think you've ever seen an LS motor and a Ford modular side by side lol. BTW, V8 miatas are nothing new, its typically some form of LS motor, or the old pushrod 5.0.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:41 PM   #160
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No..but don't the new Camaros have an ls1? That thing is pretty big compared to the 5.0...
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:05 PM   #161
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An LS1 is from a fourth gen camaro and the C5 corvettes. Late 90s to early 2000s.

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Old 02-12-2015, 01:06 PM   #162
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This little guy:



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Old 02-12-2015, 04:08 PM   #163
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Oh gotcha...
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:50 PM   #164
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bumpity bump, any more progress op???
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:14 PM   #165
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Guys, I see some threads concerning pushing oil out of the PCV valves at boost. This is a real problem that I also experienced and I have never seen any of the kit manufacturers address the problem. The solution is to prevent boosting the crank case but retain the PCV function. I used a series of one way valves on my 3.7 Twin that has worked really well. It took some fabrication using copper tubing and turned out pretty nice. I have not had the oil problem since. Under vacuum conditions it pulls air from my oil catch can (which has a filter) through the crank case into the intake manifold as it did when stock (this is where most of your idle air comes from). When the intake manifold goes to boost the valves close and the crank case goes to atmosphere through the catch can.

Pic 1 - shows three valves. The black ones close when the manifold goes to boost and the red one opens to allow the crank case to remain at atmospheric pressure.

Pic 2 - shows the oil catch can in the distance attached to the radiator shroud.

Pic 3 - shows the hose routing from the catch can to the driver side PCV location and from the catch can to the red valve and intake manifold.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:36 PM   #166
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Voltwings, my father owns a Miata that I drive quite often. Be careful with the turbos. It makes the car super sketchy coming out of corners. If you haven't found out already, they are a BLAST to drive at the track.

Edit: LS1 swaps on Miatas are a waste if you want to track them. They become useless on the track.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:21 PM   #167
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Guys, I see some threads concerning pushing oil out of the PCV valves at boost. This is a real problem that I also experienced and I have never seen any of the kit manufacturers address the problem. The solution is to prevent boosting the crank case but retain the PCV function. I used a series of one way valves on my 3.7 Twin that has worked really well. It took some fabrication using copper tubing and turned out pretty nice. I have not had the oil problem since. Under vacuum conditions it pulls air from my oil catch can (which has a filter) through the crank case into the intake manifold as it did when stock (this is where most of your idle air comes from). When the intake manifold goes to boost the valves close and the crank case goes to atmosphere through the catch can.

Pic 1 - shows three valves. The black ones close when the manifold goes to boost and the red one opens to allow the crank case to remain at atmospheric pressure.

Pic 2 - shows the oil catch can in the distance attached to the radiator shroud.

Pic 3 - shows the hose routing from the catch can to the driver side PCV location and from the catch can to the red valve and intake manifold.

This is the same system we've been using for years on big boost setups and it works fantastically well, although we run two separate cans (assuming you dont and i misunderstood your post). We basically run a sealed can for daily operations, and have the Check valves kick over to the vented can under boost, but the principle is the same. Yours looks pretty damn clean BTW.
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:42 AM   #168
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bumpity bump, any more progress op???
Yeah, so sorry for the lack of updates guys - it's busy season in my line of work, and I'm running back and forth between Miami and Orlando every week or so.

So, mega update.
I've had the kit on for just over a week. Quick stats:

(Tuned conservatively, since it's my daily)
-450 RWHP / 415 TQ @ 10 lbs of boost and 93 octane, and according to MPT there was still a lot of room for more power. Just limited for longevity.
-I'm averaging 24 mpg combined (35/65 city/hwy), with about 34 MPG on hwy (at 55-65mph) and around 18-20 MPG city, and this is on 3.55 gears. So I will say that my MPG's have actually increased overall.
-I did swap my grille out for the open design, which impacts MPG's negatively.

-It's incredibly fun, and the boost comes on predictably. I did a clutch and flywheel upgrade (Spec stage 3) at the same time, so it took me a while to re-learn how to drive. Clutch used to chatter like an addict suffering withdrawals, but it's more broken in now.

-Can't upload pics/vid to the forums at this time; I made an instagram just for the car, which you can check out at @L337v6
I'll upload some pictures later.

-There's still a lot of work to be done on the car. In a couple weeks, hood will be painted, glass roof will be replaced, and I'll be installing some Focal Flax (or Kevlar) speakers with plans for a custom center console + iPad install. I'm going to go with a bagged setup (AccuAir with RideTech's TQ shockwaves) in a month or two, and an APR wide-body kit by the end of the year. Wheels and more performance upgrades next year. I've done the research and that's pretty much the best order of the mods.
I've been thinking about making active grille shutters to increase aerodynamics & minimize damage to radiator/rock chips from the amount of time I spend on the highway, but we'll see.

But yeah, the turbo is so much fun. It does chirp the tires even with traction control on, but it's very tame. It makes me feel like I'm already used to the boost (even though I know I'm not), and making me want more - but I need to learn how it is with the traction OFF.

Check out the instagram for the dyno graph, vid and pics. Or wait and I'll post them up here in a day or two.

Sorry again, it's just been really really busy.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:47 PM   #169
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Interesting report. Did you actually calculate the mileage or are the numbers from the car computer? I have found that the car computer calculations are incorrect after doing the turbo tune (6 to 7 mpg). I also have 255 gears and my calculated mileage is around 26 on the highway, which is fine. Your power numbers are interesting as well. I am making 400 RWHP at 7.5 pounds of boost and 450 foot pounds of torque at 3200 rpm. The turbo cars are great fun!


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Old 03-26-2015, 10:52 PM   #170
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"(Tuned conservatively, since it's my daily)
-450 RWHP / 415 TQ @ 10 lbs of boost and 93 octane, and according to MPT there was still a lot of room for more power. Just limited for longevity."

If I'm honest I'm a little surprised you made that much power on 93 even with a concervative tune, I would have guessed a little more but eh. The only reason I say that is because I'm really interested in the kit myself but being in cali we have ****ty 91 and was hoping on making more than 400 hp & tq so I guess we'll see.

with the new found power how is 1st gear? I'm sure with tc off its pretty useless unless you're running bigger tires and if so what size? thanks!
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:40 PM   #171
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As it is with Cali these kit will NOT be legal so unless you plan on paying $300+ under the table for smog I wouldn't look too hard into it. However if its something you decide to do there are many VP stations throughout you can get 100 octane or more. So ****ty 91...its better than 87 and you can always do a 91 street tune with it and mix with 100 octane to get a conservative higher octane tune for it.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:20 PM   #172
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Quote:
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As it is with Cali these kit will NOT be legal so unless you plan on paying $300+ under the table for smog I wouldn't look too hard into it. However if its something you decide to do there are many VP stations throughout you can get 100 octane or more. So ****ty 91...its better than 87 and you can always do a 91 street tune with it and mix with 100 octane to get a conservative higher octane tune for it.

I currently live in cali but from Texas and thats where the car is registered so I go by Texas laws and not cali so no smog being in the military has a few perks. I have played with the idea of going E85 but being that I cant really push it too hard because no one really knows the limit on these stock block and only gaining a bit hp/tq I'd be happy with low 400's on 91 pump
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:28 PM   #173
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Im the same but registered in nebraska i stiil have to get mine smogged for base decals... its just not as scrutinized

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Old 03-29-2015, 07:36 PM   #174
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So over and over when it comes to making a turbo i see i could build one but dont know how to weld? Haha i might be the only person who can tig mig and arc weld but cant build a turbo, always wanted to but theres sooo many parts and details into doing it right plus making me nervous, i personally will end up going with the lpf and aiming for 450rwhp

One question even if it not in the proper thread, on 91octane fuel (im cali) should i go with 60 80 or 90lb injectors? With the lpf kit?
Im hoping those whove been there done that might still be watching this thread

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Old 03-29-2015, 09:09 PM   #175
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1. Your power goals should realistically only use ~80% of your fueling system as a general safety precaution.

2. 87, 91, 93 ... all use the same amount of fuel, only thing that will demand more fuel is E85 ^^ see number one for this.

3. That is a question you need answered by your tuner. Most tuners will only tune injectors they know, have experience with, and trust. They're not going to risk a car blowing up with their tune on it because of something so trivial as an injector. You need to see what injectors they have experience with, and know the 3.7 can handle. Some cars struggle to idle properly with too large of injectors if the ECU does not have adequate control over them.
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