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Old 03-29-2015, 05:00 PM   #1
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Switch back to 93 Race tune

So I had been driving for a few months with BAMAs 93 Race tune when I got to Massachusetts. Everything worked great, got some data logs in and everything. I went back to an 87 tune for the winter. Didn't feel the need to have all that power with snow on the ground. So again everything ran fine and good. I even purchased a Mega Air Spacer, added a little bit of down low grunt but it was hard to notice it due to my 17" wheels and snow tires. Anyway fast forward 3 months and today I decided to swap back to the previous 93 race tune had before and now it keeps throwing a code along with a wrench. It's some "Internal Torque Control Module Performance" something like that. Only thing I can come up with is that it doesn't like the mega air spacer i installed. Everything else is the same. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:09 PM   #2
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So I had been driving for a few months with BAMAs 93 Race tune when I got to Massachusetts. Everything worked great, got some data logs in and everything. I went back to an 87 tune for the winter. Didn't feel the need to have all that power with snow on the ground. So again everything ran fine and good. Today I decided to swap back to the previous 93 rave tune in had before and now it keeps throwing a code. It's some "Internal Torque Control Module Performance" something like that. Only thing I can come up with is that it doesn't like the mega air spacer ininstalled. Everything else is the same. Any thoughts?
The gas could also be some crappy poor quality wibterblend that isn't quite as good as normal 93. Not sure how much the spacer would matter

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:12 PM   #3
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Code is P061B
I doubt it....the gas shouldn't make that much difference that the regular 93 Race tune wouldn't work.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:16 PM   #4
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Code is P061B
I doubt it....the gas shouldn't make that much difference that the regular 93 Race tune wouldn't work.
Is the car running rough or anything or just the code?

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:18 PM   #5
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http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum.../topics/391817
Read through that real quick

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:44 PM   #6
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Not rough but after the wrench light goes on I stop, turn it off then restart it. It then goes on again and with the CEL...I switched it back to 87 Street and it's working fine....no idea but I'll try cleaning the TB guess?
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:52 PM   #7
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Not rough but after the wrench light goes on I stop, turn it off then restart it. It then goes on again and with the CEL...I switched it back to 87 Street and it's working fine....no idea but I'll try cleaning the TB guess?
Try that and clean the maf as well and just make sure the spacer and throttle body are nice and snug. Same with the air intake.

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Old 03-29-2015, 07:12 PM   #8
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Ya, they are all clean and everything is snug. Still no go...I think it's the spacer
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:04 PM   #9
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Ya, they are all clean and everything is snug. Still no go...I think it's the spacer
Yeah pull that off and see what happens. Kind of weird that it was fine on the lower octane tune though

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Old 03-30-2015, 08:23 AM   #10
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ya its a bit strange. I just drove to work with everything as is still and it was fine...no wrench no CEL :-/
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:40 AM   #11
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So I had been driving for a few months with BAMAs 93 Race tune when I got to Massachusetts. Everything worked great, got some data logs in and everything. I went back to an 87 tune for the winter. Didn't feel the need to have all that power with snow on the ground. So again everything ran fine and good. I even purchased a Mega Air Spacer, added a little bit of down low grunt but it was hard to notice it due to my 17" wheels and snow tires. Anyway fast forward 3 months and today I decided to swap back to the previous 93 race tune had before and now it keeps throwing a code along with a wrench. It's some "Internal Torque Control Module Performance" something like that. Only thing I can come up with is that it doesn't like the mega air spacer i installed. Everything else is the same. Any thoughts?

Hey Fintile - Sorry to hear about the trouble here but it's looking like Nate beat me to it here and he's getting you some help. If anything I would pull the spacer and then get some fresh fuel - If the issue still persists shoot the Bama Team a call and they can get you some help but based on the code I don't believe there's anything wrong with the tune here - Let me know if you're to have any other questions and I'm here to help!

Alex
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:47 AM   #12
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Hey Fintile - Sorry to hear about the trouble here but it's looking like Nate beat me to it here and he's getting you some help. If anything I would pull the spacer and then get some fresh fuel - If the issue still persists shoot the Bama Team a call and they can get you some help but based on the code I don't believe there's anything wrong with the tune here - Let me know if you're to have any other questions and I'm here to help!

Alex
Absolutely. I know the tune isnt the issue...however I would like to keep the spacer installed but I cant keep the car running long enough to do a data log before it goes limp...I'll try to figure something out in the next couple weeks with that. But I think taking the spacer out is what I will need to do for now.
Any thoughts you might have about why the 87 Street tune works fine with the spacer but the 93 Race tune throws this code? (just want to play around with ideas...) maybe I can send in my last tune to be revised for the spacer?
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:19 PM   #13
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Ok so I took out the TB spacer and still no go...It took longer this time before the wrench light came on though. Not sure why an older 87 Street tune works but my less than a year old 93 Race tune does not
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:26 PM   #14
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Ok so I took out the TB spacer and still no go...It took longer this time before the wrench light came on though. Not sure why an older 87 Street tune works but my less than a year old 93 Race tune does not
Hmm. I don't know man I'm out of ideas. Maybe give bama a call and see what they say

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Old 03-30-2015, 04:27 PM   #15
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Ok so I took out the TB spacer and still no go...It took longer this time before the wrench light came on though. Not sure why an older 87 Street tune works but my less than a year old 93 Race tune does not
Hey Fin - That's really on the strange side - We along with Bama haven't worked with the spacer before and I don't have too much info on them but I don't believe that it would require a tune revision/update. At this point I would advise setting it back to stock, reloading the tune and if it's still persisting shoot Bama a call directly to see if they're able to help trouble-shoot this with you!

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Old 03-30-2015, 09:38 PM   #16
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Hey guys that KS for the ideas and help so far. So I did something I never thought. I reinstalled my stock airbox along with the last revision of the 93 Race tune and it worked just fine. I need to inspect my CAI for leaks before the MAF sensor. It's the only thing I can come up with at this point but I think it's good to go now!
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:41 PM   #17
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Hey guys that KS for the ideas and help so far. So I did something I never thought. I reinstalled my stock airbox along with the last revision of the 93 Race tune and it worked just fine. I need to inspect my CAI for leaks before the MAF sensor. It's the only thing I can come up with at this point but I think it's good to go now!
What air intake do you have?

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Old 03-30-2015, 09:48 PM   #18
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Mind you in had it on my car for over 4 months before I took it off in November. I had it stuffed in a closet all winter and the filter grommet got a tare.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:00 AM   #19
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So the issue got solved bro?


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Old 04-01-2015, 08:10 AM   #20
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Hey guys that KS for the ideas and help so far. So I did something I never thought. I reinstalled my stock airbox along with the last revision of the 93 Race tune and it worked just fine. I need to inspect my CAI for leaks before the MAF sensor. It's the only thing I can come up with at this point but I think it's good to go now!
Hey Fin - Thanks for the update here I was starting to get worried!!! I just wanted to make sure that you were in good shape! Let me know if there's anything else I can help out with in the meantime!

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Old 04-01-2015, 08:28 AM   #21
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So the issue got solved bro?


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Ya. It was just a hole on the coupling/grommet
that alow the filter to attach to the CAI.




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Hey Fin - Thanks for the update here I was starting to get worried!!! I just wanted to make sure that you were in good shape! Let me know if there's anything else I can help out with in the meantime!

Alex
Thanks, I'll do that.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:23 AM   #22
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Sounds like you're hitting a load cap. "internal torque control" is basically a means of the car measuring how much power it is making at any given point - an indicator measured at the MAF and calculated via load - and there are tables in the tune that cover this.

Basically, it sounds like the car, for whatever reason, is wanting to make more power at some given point than the tune is happy with. The CAI could exacerbate this, which is why going to the stock air box likely helped, but it could be any combination of mods. The really cold weather + CAI + throttle body spacer could be pulling in a larger amount of air down low - registering a larger load value - and triggering the torque tables.

So, not to say the tune is a "problem," the torque tables are there for a number of reasons, safety, traction, power consistency... but i believe this fix lies in a retune to just adjust those torque tables.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:02 PM   #23
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Sounds like you're hitting a load cap. "internal torque control" is basically a means of the car measuring how much power it is making at any given point - an indicator measured at the MAF and calculated via load - and there are tables in the tune that cover this.

Basically, it sounds like the car, for whatever reason, is wanting to make more power at some given point than the tune is happy with. The CAI could exacerbate this, which is why going to the stock air box likely helped, but it could be any combination of mods. The really cold weather + CAI + throttle body spacer could be pulling in a larger amount of air down low - registering a larger load value - and triggering the torque tables.

So, not to say the tune is a "problem," the torque tables are there for a number of reasons, safety, traction, power consistency... but i believe this fix lies in a retune to just adjust those torque tables.
Interesting, well that would make sense seeing as I data-logged this tune 3 different times to get it to where it is currently at and that was around late summer very early Fall and before I installed the spacer. I figure I will need to data-log the tune a bit to get it to work better but in the meantime Im going to try to see if there is something with the CAI.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:58 PM   #24
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Could check your fuel trims with the CAI installed as well. If excess air is getting in, it would (almost) be a safe bet it would be doing so Post-Maf and you should be able to see that in your fuel trims.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:13 AM   #25
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I'll look into it, see what's up.
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Old 04-03-2015, 08:55 AM   #26
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So, after I "FiXed" the CAI i reinstalled it and AGAIN it threw a wrench. Shut it off restatred drove it a bit and yet again a wrench and CEL. Same code...
Volt-
Not sure how air getting in past the MAF sensor would change the trim. I assume there is a second sensor somewhere in the IM?
ANyway. I think I will try it again without the TB Spacer and see if maybe that was throwing off the tune a little. Back to the old drawing board.
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Old 04-03-2015, 09:38 AM   #27
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So, after I "FiXed" the CAI i reinstalled it and AGAIN it threw a wrench. Shut it off restatred drove it a bit and yet again a wrench and CEL. Same code...
Volt-
Not sure how air getting in past the MAF sensor would change the trim. I assume there is a second sensor somewhere in the IM?
ANyway. I think I will try it again without the TB Spacer and see if maybe that was throwing off the tune a little. Back to the old drawing board.

MAF measures "x" air and adds fuel accordingly.

If there is a leak somewhere in the system, X+1 lets say air is getting in and mixing with X fuel. The system will register as lean (primary o2 sensors) and add more fuel to compensate. This is the change you're looking for in fuel trims to check for a leak, excessively positive trims indicate a leak.

What intake are you running again? For some reason i think i remember it being an ebay one? Just make sure the MAF is actually sealing against whatever sensor housing they're using, could be leaking around there.
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Old 04-03-2015, 03:09 PM   #28
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ya..Ebay Special...again it worked perfectly for 8 months, then I removed it for winter and it was just in my car so something went wrong but I'll double check the seal around the MAF sensor. I understand what you ment now by getting past the MAF sensor. I was thinking a leak AFTER the sensor like I have a sound tube installed. Its rigged up decently but i should check that as well...
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Old 04-03-2015, 04:40 PM   #29
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Or maybe the spacer is the culprit.. Try that without it as well..

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Old 04-04-2015, 08:44 AM   #30
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Or maybe the spacer is the culprit.. Try that without it as well..

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i find it very odd that i didnt get a CEL or Wrench light while driving with the 87 Street tune (although it drove odd...not the smooth accel it had before) yet as soon as i load even the standard 93 Race tune it throws a wrench and then a CEL shortly after. SOMETHING in the 93 tunes is a lot more sensitive to something the intake is doing...maybe i need a 93 tune for a STEEDA CAI (are those the tune required CALs?)
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:48 AM   #31
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i find it very odd that i didnt get a CEL or Wrench light while driving with the 87 Street tune (although it drove odd...not the smooth accel it had before) yet as soon as i load the standard 93 Race tune it throws a wrench and then a CEL shortly after. SOMETHING in the 93 tunes is a lot more sensitive to something the intake is doing...maybe i need a 93 tune for a STEEDA CAI (are those the tune required CALs?)
Yup steeda cai are the way to go for tuned intakes you'll get more from your tune from what iv heared and read on this forum.
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Old 04-06-2015, 07:56 AM   #32
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I'll look into those. too much money IMO but I'll try to look for used if i decide I want one...that or get an Airraid.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:25 AM   #33
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While using different tunes what should the air fuel ratio be. I am driving myself nuts trying to figure out what Cai and tune I want. Some brands are bejng written about saying it's too lean and bad for the engine. Any helpful info for a novice?

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Old 04-06-2015, 09:14 AM   #34
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I think i understand the confusion here, so i'll try to break it down a bit for you.

Cruising AFR should always be about 14.7:1 give or take .2 or so.

WOT AFR will vary based on how conservative your tuner wants to be, typically "Leaner is meaner" and makes more power, but also runs hotter and can lead to engine damage, blah blah blah ... These Ti-VCT motors, at least the Coyote motors, tend to run a little on the fatter side though, so i'd say you're probably looking around a 12.4 AFR WOT.

Now, the Cars measure AFR in lambda, which is basically a percentage of stoich AFR.
Stoichiometry and Balancing Reactions - Chemwiki

Meaning 14.7 = 1, and everything richer will be <1 and everything leaner will be >1, so a 12.4 comes out to be: 12.4 / 14.7 = .84 give or take.

Here's another thread if you want to understand this further:
How to: Understand your datalogs

Now, the reason you may hear some intakes run leaner, probably the steeda one, is because that intake actually changes the diameter of the MAF housing. The MAF calculates airflow based on several factors over a given diameter - if you change that diameter to a larger size, more air will come in that the computer cannot calculate for. For this reason, the steeda (and any other intake that increases the MAF diameter) will absolutely require a tune, and will run lean otherwise. Hopefully that cleared some things up for you.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:46 PM   #35
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I really need to data log whats going on cause even while cruising this setup throws a wrench and code something it never did before Dec. (I swapped back to stack intake and 87 street tune right after Thanksgiving.) I need to know whats causing this. I swear Im loosing sleep over it lol...well not just with this. there are other factors but THIS is adding to it heh heh
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