E85 and other alcohols - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 05-16-2015, 04:34 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
elkoritaNAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Region: California
Posts: 851
E85 and other alcohols

Hi everyone
Just finished watching this documentary on Netflix. It sounds intriguing. There are converter kits to make your car a flex fuel car. Just curious has any one on here tried this or does anybody here run on something else but gasoline? In particular, done these changes to a mustang.


Flowmaster force 2 exhaust, jlt cai, x4 bama tuner, carbon fiber dash overlay kit, modern retro shift knob, mmd hood and side scoops, classic quarter louvers, gt500 spoiler, 3.7 and pony emblems, mustang rocker stripes, eibach anti sway roll bar kit, Bbk shorty ceramic tuned headers
Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
elkoritaNAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-16-2015, 04:36 PM   #2
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
A few guys around here run e85.
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 05:01 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
Rapinator126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 9,246
E85. Simple swap

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Mustang Evolution mobile app
Rapinator126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-16-2015, 05:08 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Topeka
Region: Kansas
Posts: 179
With all the food shortages in this world I find it immoral to put food in our gas tanks. But I suppose it would save you some money to cover the rising cost of beef due to the shortage of corn to feed the cattle. Beyond that you run into the issue of engines running hotter on alcohol therefore running less efficiently and not lasting as long.
BrewGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 05:10 PM   #5
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
........
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 05:10 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
elkoritaNAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Region: California
Posts: 851
According to the doc, there is a by product when burning the corn, there is no actual waste. I'm no expert at it, just curious to the idea. It's an interestingness documentary.


Flowmaster force 2 exhaust, jlt cai, x4 bama tuner, carbon fiber dash overlay kit, modern retro shift knob, mmd hood and side scoops, classic quarter louvers, gt500 spoiler, 3.7 and pony emblems, mustang rocker stripes, eibach anti sway roll bar kit, Bbk shorty ceramic tuned headers
Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
elkoritaNAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 05:11 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
Rapinator126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 9,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
With all the food shortages in this world I find it immoral to put food in our gas tanks. But I suppose it would save you some money to cover the rising cost of beef due to the shortage of corn to feed the cattle. Beyond that you run into the issue of engines running hotter on alcohol therefore running less efficiently and not lasting as long.


And that's why you don't smoke Crack.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Mustang Evolution mobile app
Rapinator126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 08:44 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
With all the food shortages in this world I find it immoral to put food in our gas tanks. But I suppose it would save you some money to cover the rising cost of beef due to the shortage of corn to feed the cattle. Beyond that you run into the issue of engines running hotter on alcohol therefore running less efficiently and not lasting as long.
All the testing and research i have done has proven alcohol to actually run much cooler, but i am interested to hear what your research has to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoritaNAY View Post
According to the doc, there is a by product when burning the corn, there is no actual waste. I'm no expert at it, just curious to the idea. It's an interestingness documentary.


Flowmaster force 2 exhaust, jlt cai, x4 bama tuner, carbon fiber dash overlay kit, modern retro shift knob, mmd hood and side scoops, classic quarter louvers, gt500 spoiler, 3.7 and pony emblems, mustang rocker stripes, eibach anti sway roll bar kit, Bbk shorty ceramic tuned headers
Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
it is possible to have a full catless, mufflerless exhaust and still pass a "sniff" test if the car is running E85.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post


And that's why you don't smoke Crack.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Mustang Evolution mobile app
As soon as i saw you were in this thread i couldnt wait to see your response haha.






We've run E85 in quite a few of our cars and actually race my fiance's V6 on a 50/50 blend (shout out to the guys at MPT). Really there isnt much (if any) horsepower benefit past 50/50, sometimes even as little as 25% E85, you only want enough E85 in the system to combat the knock.

E85 has less BTU (Think power potential) than 93, but obviously has a much higher knock resistance. What this means is you can tune more power into the E85 (due to higher knock resistance) but it takes more to make the same amount of power (hence, the need for extra fuel when switching to E85). I had the math somewhere broken down of a car i had tuned where we compared E85 and 93 blend, 93 spraying meth, and then a blend of e85 and 93 spraying meth and the math proved 93 + meth "made the most power." What i mean is that on paper, that set up had the highest power potential, strictly speaking from a physics and chemistry stand point. ** see disclaimer below.

The reason most tuners will run you on 100% E85 is simple: consistency and convenience. Blending fuels at the pump is somewhat of a pain, and obviously you will never get exactly the same blend every single time, so the tune does need some up keep. Obviously a tuner does not want to, nor can they afford to, deal with people constantly throwing off their blends and screwing up the fuel trims. Therefore, most people just run on 100% E85 for the above reasons. Nothing wrong with that, but given the option to self tune throw some 93 in there.

** Despite meth having a higher power potential, it also has a higher failure potential. You can solder in the best controller, pump, what have you, it is a still a stand alone system that can fail. E85 going through your cars stock fuel system really cannot...
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 08:48 PM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,442
I realized i never actually answered the question though. On my fiance's car, ( catless H-pipe + air raid intake) we saw a marginal gain in top end horsepower, maybe 5-7 at best. The real gains were mid range torque, where if i remember correctly it was an easy 10-12 wtq gain in the mid range, it is certainly noticeable. It also will make power a little more consistent when at the drag strip since heat soak is not as much of a factor. Heat soak will obviously be pulling hot air into the engine, but at least you dont need to be worrying about timing pulled as well.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 09:33 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
alrefire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Region: Alabama
Posts: 3,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
With all the food shortages in this world I find it immoral to put food in our gas tanks. But I suppose it would save you some money to cover the rising cost of beef due to the shortage of corn to feed the cattle. Beyond that you run into the issue of engines running hotter on alcohol therefore running less efficiently and not lasting as long.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post


And that's why you don't smoke Crack.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Mustang Evolution mobile app
Took the words out of my mouth.

I guess I should inform you that most of the corn produced is used for animal feed, not human consumption.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
alrefire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 11:19 PM   #11
Road Trip!
Regular
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Phoenix, Az
Region: Arizona
Posts: 1,037
You guys are the reason why his prices are going up
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1431835764813.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	90.0 KB
ID:	182741  
Joser714 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 11:26 PM   #12
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by alrefire View Post
Took the words out of my mouth.

I guess I should inform you that most of the corn produced is used for animal feed, not human consumption.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
9 out of 10 fields here are grain fields. Verrrrrrry few sweet corn fields
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 11:10 AM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
With all the food shortages in this world I find it immoral to put food in our gas tanks. But I suppose it would save you some money to cover the rising cost of beef due to the shortage of corn to feed the cattle. Beyond that you run into the issue of engines running hotter on alcohol therefore running less efficiently and not lasting as long.
Alcohol burns cooler, not hotter....and there is a huge surplus of GMO corn used for fuels.
That corn is not edible by humans.
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 11:11 AM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by natestang07 View Post
A few guys around here run e85.
e85 here...the stuff is awesome.
110 racing fuel 16.75/gal
e85/4 bucks.
Running 20 psi on the street full time/priceless.
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 02:16 PM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
elkoritaNAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Region: California
Posts: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabman View Post
e85 here...the stuff is awesome.
110 racing fuel 16.75/gal
e85/4 bucks.
Running 20 psi on the street full time/priceless.

Fabman so all I need is a converter kit? How did you change it? Is it only beneficial for turbo/supercharger? Do you have to retune?


Flowmaster force 2 exhaust, jlt cai, x4 bama tuner, carbon fiber dash overlay kit, modern retro shift knob, mmd hood and side scoops, classic quarter louvers, gt500 spoiler, 3.7 and pony emblems, mustang rocker stripes, eibach anti sway roll bar kit, Bbk shorty ceramic tuned headers
Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
elkoritaNAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 02:19 PM   #16
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabman View Post
e85 here...the stuff is awesome.
110 racing fuel 16.75/gal
e85/4 bucks.
Running 20 psi on the street full time/priceless.
Yeah I figured you did but didn't want to say for sure just in case you didn't lol
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 02:22 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoritaNAY View Post
Fabman so all I need is a converter kit? How did you change it? Is it only beneficial for turbo/supercharger? Do you have to retune?


Flowmaster force 2 exhaust, jlt cai, x4 bama tuner, carbon fiber dash overlay kit, modern retro shift knob, mmd hood and side scoops, classic quarter louvers, gt500 spoiler, 3.7 and pony emblems, mustang rocker stripes, eibach anti sway roll bar kit, Bbk shorty ceramic tuned headers
Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
Definitely re tune. There are kits out there, mine was done when I installed my big motor so you won't need all the stuff that I did. Basically it runs way cooler allowing you to run more timing/boost than with gasoline. Racing fuel also does this but is hyper expensive. It basically depends on what you want from it. For a daily driver its negligible. Also depends on how available it is in your area.
My F150 Coyote motor was flex fuel and I ran either e85 or gas depending one what was available. My twin turbo F150 Tremor is not flex fuel and I miss that.
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:08 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,442
You dont need a "converter kit," you just need a fuel system that can handle the extra capacity. The stock v6 fuel system will handle 50/50 just fine, but 100% requires a retune.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:32 PM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
You dont need a "converter kit," you just need a fuel system that can handle the extra capacity. The stock v6 fuel system will handle 50/50 just fine, but 100% requires a retune.
A filter change is necessary at minimum as paper elements do not do well with ethanol. I've never ran less that 100% ethanol so I'm not sure how easy it is on components when you run 50/50 but it's still hydrophobic and collects water and rusts parts, or so the story goes. There are some reputable tuners and manufacturers that claim a whole litany of items must be changed....others, say otherwise. Best bet is to talk to a tuner who uses e85 regularly. The web is full of experts who speak from inexperience, and I for one am no expert.
Go to the source.
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:36 PM   #20
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
This is a super good thread....check it out.
E85 What you Need To Know!!
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:40 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Topeka
Region: Kansas
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by alrefire View Post
Took the words out of my mouth.

I guess I should inform you that most of the corn produced is used for animal feed, not human consumption.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
I grew up in Iowa. I understand that the corn they use for ethanol is feed corn, whence my comment on the cost of beef. There is a direct correlation.
BrewGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:42 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
I grew up in Iowa. I understand that the corn they use for ethanol is feed corn, whence my comment on the cost of beef. There is a direct correlation.
Yeah, I caught that....but from what I've read (read-can't swear to this) is that there is a surplus of feed stock that's just wasting away....
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #23
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
I doubt there is a shortage of feed that effects beef
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 03:47 PM   #24
Registered Member
Regular
 
Fabman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pleasanton
Region: California
Posts: 1,173
This is the kit I used plus ID1000injectors:
DivisionX 2005-2010 3V Mustang GT 1000rwhp Return Style Fuel System

Here is an excerpt:
E85 USERS: We recommend using the Walbro F90000267 465lph pumps as these are the only pumps sold by Walbro as a 100% E85/Flex Fuel compatible fuel pump. We also recommend using the DivisionX DX-0010MW fuel filter with wire mesh filter element as paper elements are not compatible with E85.
__________________

Tuned by AED
*694 RWHP/677 RWTQ* 10.22@136mph
Currently Assaulting California's Roadcourses
Fabman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:12 PM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Topeka
Region: Kansas
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by natestang07 View Post
I doubt there is a shortage of feed that effects beef
When E85 became popular there was a major spike in the cost of beef for exactly that reason. More competition for the supply of feed raised the price of it. That is why a cut of fillet mignon is 13 bucks. 90% lean ground beef is $5.99 a pound etc.
BrewGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:20 PM   #26
Registered Member
Regular
 
GrabberMeBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Somewhere
Region: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewGuy View Post
When E85 became popular there was a major spike in the cost of beef for exactly that reason. More competition for the supply of feed raised the price of it. That is why a cut of fillet mignon is 13 bucks. 90% lean ground beef is $5.99 a pound etc.
Shoot deer and don't worry about the cost of beef.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
__________________
2012 Grabber Blue V6 Convertible
1995 Red Trans Am Convertible
1979 Gold Trans Am
GrabberMeBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:20 PM   #27
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabberMeBlue View Post
Shoot deer and don't worry about the cost of beef.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
Back east that is very much possible. Here in Central Washington not so much lol
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:23 PM   #28
Registered Member
Regular
 
GrabberMeBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Somewhere
Region: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by natestang07 View Post
Back east that is very much possible. Here in Central Washington not so much lol
I'm in Wisconsin. Lucky enough to shoot 2 or 3 every year, and that's usually only going out 4 days or so, and on public land.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
__________________
2012 Grabber Blue V6 Convertible
1995 Red Trans Am Convertible
1979 Gold Trans Am
GrabberMeBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 04:24 PM   #29
Registered Member

Regular
 
natestang07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Soap Lake
Region: Washington
Posts: 5,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabberMeBlue View Post
I'm in Wisconsin. Lucky enough to shoot 2 or 3 every year, and that's usually only going out 4 days or so, and on public land.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
I still have yet to be drawn for a double tag in my life. One a year for me lol and the occasional spike elk
natestang07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
e85 and proper oil in coyotes. Rapinator126 2011-2014 Mustang GT 52 01-05-2014 08:43 PM
E85 testing on NA 08 Mustang GT 4.6L 3V justin00stang 1996-2004 Mustang GT 8 07-30-2008 02:49 PM
Anyone heard of E85? Dom The Bar 5 04-27-2006 01:20 PM
Has anyone filled up with E85 105 Octane gas? Vash Pre-2005 V6 Mustang 5 01-05-2006 09:08 AM

» Like Us On Facebook



12:40 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.