Cat Delete with Stock Midpipe - Mustang Evolution

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Old 05-27-2015, 09:22 PM   #1
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Cat Delete with Stock Midpipe

I was wondering if I could cut the cats off and replace it with the a 2.25 pipe to match the pipes. I wanna keep the stock mid pipe due to the fact its a hybrid style midpipe and i hear it reduces rasp and some say they get better times. The main question I have is how will the. 02 sensors react? Should I get a tune to disable it or have a pipe with o2 placements in it?
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Old 05-28-2015, 07:54 AM   #2
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So you want it to reduce rasp, but remove the cats? Lol. do you realize how raspy it's going to be without cats? And you would have to get a new tune/mil eliminators to turn the check engine light off.


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Old 05-28-2015, 07:56 AM   #3
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Of course, you run the risk of an exhaust leak by cutting the cats out unless you have the new pieces welded in.


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Old 05-28-2015, 08:05 AM   #4
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Removing the cats will generate all kinds of rasp.
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:36 AM   #5
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Of course, you run the risk of an exhaust leak by cutting the cats out unless you have the new pieces welded in.


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You can actually unbolt the cats from the mid pipe and the headers I believe so it wouldn't require any cutting.

And to the op why do you want to do this? Removing the cats on a stock car isn't going to add any HP and will add rasp so am trying to understand why unless you want to do it just to do it. Unless you have forced induction or n20 from everything I've read the stock cats can support stock like HP without any restrictions


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Old 05-28-2015, 09:36 AM   #6
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You can actually unbolt the cats from the mid pipe and the headers I believe so it wouldn't require any cutting.

And to the op why do you want to do this? Removing the cats on a stock car isn't going to add any HP and will add rasp so am trying to understand why unless you want to do it just to do it. Unless you have forced induction or n20 from everything I've read the stock cats can support stock like HP without any restrictions


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Well the main thing i see in a xpipe isnt really xpipe part but the off road part which is the cat delete. The cats are the most restrictive part of the exhaust. More flow = more power.. Thats why i think people gain power from x pipes.
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Old 05-28-2015, 09:52 AM   #7
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Well the main thing i see in a xpipe isnt really xpipe part but the off road part which is the cat delete. The cats are the most restrictive part of the exhaust. More flow = more power.. Thats why i think people gain power from x pipes.

Bro, are you making a car strictly for the track? If not, removing your cats along with straight pipe mufflers is going to make your car soo loud. Glad I am not in Oklahoma.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:12 AM   #8
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Bro, are you making a car strictly for the track? If not, removing your cats along with straight pipe mufflers is going to make your car soo loud. Glad I am not in Oklahoma.
Haha trust me there is pletty of louder cars here no one cares besides old hags with hearing aids that are affected my loud exhaust noises lol. I go to the drags every weekend i can. I want the best times i can get. It seems most cars in my range are runnjng 12.9-13.5 i wanna get a whoop on this 2015 5.0 i beat HER once but she gets the jump on me near the end.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:16 AM   #9
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Well for your case, you would want the long tube and x pipe setup. This will give you the higher end power you are needing. The shorties only have you set up for 0-60 type deals. This is why you cannot hang with her near the end. Those other 2 cylinders give her more of a high end finish then our V6s can provide unless you specifically mod for higher end power. TBH, I would say a BBK TB would help a tad in the 3k-5k RPM range. I felt my car pull a tad hard near there when I installed mine.

Do you have an aluminum driveshaft? If you are getting in the high end speeds and want to hang with her, I would first get the car to a safe point to handle that. It might even also help very slightly with weight and stuff. Remember, reducing weight can help. Not alot but every little bit is what you need if you are taking on 5.0s. I would be doing every little thing I could do in that case, including the BBK TB. Lol
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by RaceRed3.7 View Post
Well the main thing i see in a xpipe isnt really xpipe part but the off road part which is the cat delete. The cats are the most restrictive part of the exhaust. More flow = more power.. Thats why i think people gain power from x pipes.

People think that but on a stock car your going to see very little gains (if any) from taking off the cats. Now if your talking about with a significant power adder you will see more. The whole more flow = more power is taken out of context. An engine is an air pump it can only pump out as much air as it takes in. So on a n/a 3.7 the cats flow fine to support that power level. If that blanket statement were true why not put 4-5 inch exhaust on the car?

Some things we're true at one point in time but are not longer true with current technology. Sure if you have a car from the 80s those cats probable were horrible but with today's technology that's no longer the case. Just like you don't have to change your oil every 3k miles


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Old 05-28-2015, 10:33 AM   #11
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People think that but on a stock car your going to see very little gains (if any) from taking off the cats. Now if your talking about with a significant power adder you will see more. The whole more flow = more power is taken out of context. An engine is an air pump it can only pump out as much air as it takes in. So on a n/a 3.7 the cats flow fine to support that power level. If that blanket statement were true why not put 4-5 inch exhaust on the car?

Some things we're true at one point in time but are not longer true with current technology. Sure if you have a car from the 80s those cats probable were horrible but with today's technology that's no longer the case. Just like you don't have to change your oil every 3k miles


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Yea exactly. People add a CAI or TB on without doing the headers or anything. Then say they never saw any gains. It is because with the extra air the car is getting in, it still has to wait before it can get it all out. This is also why some people said their car feels sluggish after a CAI or TB.

Obviously a tune is needed once you get all the pieces of the puzzle. And that is exactly what we do when we mod our car. We are completing a puzzle. Everything from the TB, to the headers, to the mid-pipe.

I noticed once I got the headers on, the car felt more "in-tune". The power was more smooth and it pulls hard after 3K RPM now. No more choking my car with extra air it cannot get rid of. I can't wait to get my 3.73s so I feel the power a bit all over.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:42 AM   #12
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Yea exactly. People add a CAI or TB on without doing the headers or anything. Then say they never saw any gains. It is because with the extra air the car is getting in, it still has to wait before it can get it all out. This is also why some people said their car feels sluggish after a CAI or TB.

Obviously a tune is needed once you get all the pieces of the puzzle. And that is exactly what we do when we mod our car. We are completing a puzzle. Everything from the TB, to the headers, to the mid-pipe.

I noticed once I got the headers on, the car felt more "in-tune". The power was more smooth and it pulls hard after 3K RPM now. No more choking my car with extra air it cannot get rid of. I can't wait to get my 3.73s so I feel the power a bit all over.
For $400 i feel like the TB is a waste for what it does. Id much rather do a manifold port
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:44 AM   #13
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For $400 i feel like the TB is a waste for what it does. Id much rather do a manifold port

Well you don't HAVE to pay 400 for it. With the Forum discount (if you wanted it new), you can get it for about $380 from AM. I see them go on CL and Ebay at times for ~300. Heck, I even found VIG a link on CL a couple of weeks ago where someone had their TB for 250. I saw one sold in the classifieds here for 250-300.

You just gotta look around.

And a manifold port is good. But would you settle for 1 mod or 2 mods when it comes to more power? People say "Yea I would rather have xxxxxx". But what happens when you get the porting done? You could technically still get the TB. It's not like once you get the other item, the TB is forever off limits. This goes for any mod.

I am not trying to say any 1 mod is wrong and don't do it. I am just trying to open you up to all of the possibilities. For the die hard performance guy who wants EVERYTHING possible to squeeze every hp from his car. This is what you will have to do if you want an N/A V6 to consistently beat these newer 5.0s. Modded or not.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RaceRed3.7 View Post
I was wondering if I could cut the cats off and replace it with the a 2.25 pipe to match the pipes. I wanna keep the stock mid pipe due to the fact its a hybrid style midpipe and i hear it reduces rasp and some say they get better times. The main question I have is how will the. 02 sensors react? Should I get a tune to disable it or have a pipe with o2 placements in it?
Getting back to OP's questions/concerns.
Click image for larger version

Name:	V6 OEM exhaust Resonators.jpg
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ID:	183565
Assuming the '13's are exactly the same as the '14's cutting is required. Also, the resonators would probably have to go with the cats.
The next thing to decide is, do you disconnect at the header flanges, in which case your replacement pipes will require, at least the upstream sensors. Or alternately the pipes must be cut between the upstream sensors and the cats, to retain the existing upstream sensors. In any case you can't get away with a true straight pipe. And as I see it, I may be wrong, anything purchased would have to be cut to mate with the existing hybrid style H/X pipe.
This is the first I've heard about the existing hybrid H/X pipe possibly getting better times.
It seems to me you are thinking simple and cheap but I believe, if you think it through, you may change your approach.
Some have taken the approach of H-pipe with High flow cats. Much easier install.
Suggest you do more research on your options.
Good luck.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Diehard View Post
Getting back to OP's questions/concerns.
Attachment 183565
Assuming the '13's are exactly the same as the '14's cutting is required. Also, the resonators would probably have to go with the cats.
The next thing to decide is, do you disconnect at the header flanges, in which case your replacement pipes will require, at least the upstream sensors. Or alternately the pipes must be cut between the upstream sensors and the cats, to retain the existing upstream sensors. In any case you can't get away with a true straight pipe. And as I see it, I may be wrong, anything purchased would have to be cut to mate with the existing hybrid style H/X pipe.
This is the first I've heard about the existing hybrid H/X pipe possibly getting better times.
It seems to me you are thinking simple and cheap but I believe, if you think it through, you may change your approach.
Some have taken the approach of H-pipe with High flow cats. Much easier install.
Suggest you do more research on your options.
Good luck.
Im thinking about just cutting them on the car and welding a peice in place. Then keeping the resinators for better sound.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kevin.Cook View Post
Well you don't HAVE to pay 400 for it. With the Forum discount (if you wanted it new), you can get it for about $380 from AM. I see them go on CL and Ebay at times for ~300. Heck, I even found VIG a link on CL a couple of weeks ago where someone had their TB for 250. I saw one sold in the classifieds here for 250-300.

You just gotta look around.

And a manifold port is good. But would you settle for 1 mod or 2 mods when it comes to more power? People say "Yea I would rather have xxxxxx". But what happens when you get the porting done? You could technically still get the TB. It's not like once you get the other item, the TB is forever off limits. This goes for any mod.

I am not trying to say any 1 mod is wrong and don't do it. I am just trying to open you up to all of the possibilities. For the die hard performance guy who wants EVERYTHING possible to squeeze every hp from his car. This is what you will have to do if you want an N/A V6 to consistently beat these newer 5.0s. Modded or not.
What im trying to say is I am a budget preformance upgrader. I am 17 so my pay is ****.. The good news is summer is here and i can work more
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by StarzTA17 View Post
You can actually unbolt the cats from the mid pipe and the headers I believe so it wouldn't require any cutting.

And to the op why do you want to do this? Removing the cats on a stock car isn't going to add any HP and will add rasp so am trying to understand why unless you want to do it just to do it. Unless you have forced induction or n20 from everything I've read the stock cats can support stock like HP without any restrictions

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^^ Neither is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarzTA17 View Post
People think that but on a stock car your going to see very little gains (if any) from taking off the cats. Now if your talking about with a significant power adder you will see more. The whole more flow = more power is taken out of context. An engine is an air pump it can only pump out as much air as it takes in. So on a n/a 3.7 the cats flow fine to support that power level. If that blanket statement were true why not put 4-5 inch exhaust on the car?

Some things we're true at one point in time but are not longer true with current technology. Sure if you have a car from the 80s those cats probable were horrible but with today's technology that's no longer the case. Just like you don't have to change your oil every 3k miles


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Also not true. Yes, an engine is an air pump in essence, but there is much more to it than that. I'm also not going to comment on the 4" exhaust comment, because catback diameter is a topic that i know i personally, as well as many others, have beaten to death on this forum.

Secondly, the engine is an air pump, but unlike most pumps, the inlet and outlet do not act independently of each other. In fact, i would argue the exhaust is probably more involved in pulling fresh air into the cylinder than the entire intake tract of the motor due to cam overlap and reversion.

Lastly, all logic aside, Dynos have proven otherwise that deleting the cats - honestly, probably moreso the tiny resonators immediately post cat - has proven to be more than beneficial, on our car and others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diehard View Post
Getting back to OP's questions/concerns.
Attachment 183565
Assuming the '13's are exactly the same as the '14's cutting is required. Also, the resonators would probably have to go with the cats.
The next thing to decide is, do you disconnect at the header flanges, in which case your replacement pipes will require, at least the upstream sensors. Or alternately the pipes must be cut between the upstream sensors and the cats, to retain the existing upstream sensors. In any case you can't get away with a true straight pipe. And as I see it, I may be wrong, anything purchased would have to be cut to mate with the existing hybrid style H/X pipe.
This is the first I've heard about the existing hybrid H/X pipe possibly getting better times.
It seems to me you are thinking simple and cheap but I believe, if you think it through, you may change your approach.
Some have taken the approach of H-pipe with High flow cats. Much easier install.
Suggest you do more research on your options.
Good luck.
I agree with this. In the grand scheme of things, these (offroad) midpipes are like $200 new and bolt right up, well worth the headache trying to go custom will solve, not to mention there really isnt anywhere to remove the cats since they bolt to the header. The 5.0 has cats that can be unbolted because there are ball joints post cat, but the 3.7 mid pipe is all one piece.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:38 PM   #18
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What im trying to say is I am a budget preformance upgrader. I am 17 so my pay is ****.. The good news is summer is here and i can work more

Enjoy the hours! I remember when I first started working I was taking everyone's shifts. LOL

Sorry then about the suggestions. But if you do look around, you can find some killer deals. Sad to say most pop up when you couldn't be more poor.


- Voltwings - You can bag on me to. I know I probably posted something wrong. But I wasn't lying that before the headers, it felt like my engine was struggling with the air. Now it seems to flow/run smoother with the headers.
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #19
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Enjoy the hours! I remember when I first started working I was taking everyone's shifts. LOL

Sorry then about the suggestions. But if you do look around, you can find some killer deals. Sad to say most pop up when you couldn't be more poor.


- Voltwings - You can bag on me to. I know I probably posted something wrong. But I wasn't lying that before the headers, it felt like my engine was struggling with the air. Now it seems to flow/run smoother with the headers.
Just trying to keep things objective I've actually spent the past 20 minutes after i posted that trying to pull up the airflow math i did on the intake tract ages ago, i figured for sure it would be in one of the Throttle body threads or something, but for the life of me i cant find it now.


Also, to the OP, as im only 24 and am just barely out of the "doing it cheap phase" myself, trust me: Buy once, cry one; the cheap man pays twice.
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:08 PM   #20
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Just trying to keep things objective I've actually spent the past 20 minutes after i posted that trying to pull up the airflow math i did on the intake tract ages ago, i figured for sure it would be in one of the Throttle body threads or something, but for the life of me i cant find it now.


Also, to the OP, as im only 24 and am just barely out of the "doing it cheap phase" myself, trust me: Buy once, cry one; the cheap man pays twice.

Exactly right. I cheaped out on my Timing belt change on my 3000GT ages ago because I was just starting out in my career and made peanuts. Safe to say the install went south the first time. So I had to pay a 2nd time for quality parts. I cannot stress enough to people to always go with a good product the first time.

Especially if it is a functioning component. Like gears or TB. If it is just a grille or something, sometimes you can get away with a bargain deal. But this is why I buy most of my stuff brand new. If I buy used from someone, I cannot return it if it breaks. It would be my luck, that after the deal, the person changed their email address or something. LMAO!

and I am 25. XD
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:07 PM   #21
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Just trying to keep things objective I've actually spent the past 20 minutes after i posted that trying to pull up the airflow math i did on the intake tract ages ago, i figured for sure it would be in one of the Throttle body threads or something, but for the life of me i cant find it now.


Also, to the OP, as im only 24 and am just barely out of the "doing it cheap phase" myself, trust me: Buy once, cry one; the cheap man pays twice.
That formula works for tires as well haha! I have a friend whos dad has a tire shop and its sketchy but hey gets the job done for real cheap!
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:11 PM   #22
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You can actually unbolt the cats from the mid pipe and the headers I believe so it wouldn't require any cutting.
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