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Old 07-26-2015, 10:05 PM   #1
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Procharger kit

Does anyone know if the procharger kits come with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to add more pressure as you go on boost? If not what does the kit come with to control the need for fuel pressure increase? Thanks
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:11 AM   #2
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it does not come with anything like that, but iirc our fuel pump runs at like 55psi i've been procharged for 15k and been fine without a FPR but if you're truely worried you can always get a BAP but you dont really need one unless you're trying to make a lot of power
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:14 AM   #3
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I'm not procharged YET, but I'm trying to get everything in place for it beforehand. I have a fuel pressure gauge already installed and yes it does show I'm getting about 56 psi but when I go on boost I'll need to increase at a 1:1 ratio. How does the fuel pump know to pump more fuel when I go on boost? And if the pump is maxed out at 56 psi that won't be enough
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:18 AM   #4
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it's more then enough man, paired with the right injector you'll be fine... you dont need to upgrade unless you're trying to make big power...
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:49 AM   #5
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Adjustable fuel pressure regulators are for when you're boosting like 20+ PSI, not 6-8.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:08 AM   #6
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Ok. So I'll need to upgrade the injectors to higher flow rates because the pump doesn't know to increase fuel flow when on boost I gather. Wouldn't that cause you to run rich everywhere else when NOT ON BOOST?

No I was just asking about the rrfpr because I used to mess with a couple of mid 80's turbocharged cars and they started out with only 7 psi boost and they still came with rrfpr stock then later they were upgraded to 10.5 psi and still used stock rrfpr. Boost is boost whether from a turbocharger or supercharger and fuel has to rise someway to compensate for FI, so that's been my experience
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:48 AM   #7
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Just putting larger injectors in does not mean you're constantly running more fuel, there are fuel injector scalar tables, a base MAF curve ... all larger injectors do is allow the needed fuel to be provided as the fuel demand increases, while the rpm window decreases.

For example, A fuel injection map i have made for a 1000cc car i've tuned has an injector pulse width of 27.91 milliseconds at 500 rpm. The exact same amount of fuel being injected at 8000 rpms has to be done in only 1.73 milliseconds. Eventually, it gets to a point where a small injector cannot physically spray all the fuel it needs to in that small of an rpm window.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:58 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Just putting psi larger injectors in does not mean you're constantly running more fuel, there are fuel injector scalar tables, a base MAF curve ... all larger injectors do is allow the needed fuel to be provided as the fuel demand increases, while the rpm window decreases.

For example, A fuel injection map i have made for a 1000cc car i've tuned has an injector pulse width of 27.91 milliseconds at 500 rpm. The exact same amount of fuel being injected at 8000 rpms has to be done in only 1.73 milliseconds. Eventually, it gets to a point where a small injector cannot physically spray all the fuel it needs to in that small of an rpm window.
Ok got it. I think we had talked before on my fuel pressure gauge thread about our injectors and we thought our injectors were probably around 43 lb injectors. With what your saying here the stock injectors just cant meet the demands at 7k rpm at 10 or 11 psi boost (to stay at 10.5-12 AFR) thus the need for bigger injectors. But not too big or too much fuel will get injected and wash down the cylinders. Does the procharger kit already come with specific sized injectors for certain boost applications? I want stay on stock internals, for now, but will have a meth injection done B4 the procharger kit goes in... So I might be running a little higher boost. Safely. And the fuel pump is ok with this kit and doesn't need upgrading?
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:02 AM   #9
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They come with 50 lb injectors by default. This is the ideal one for 7-8 psi. I think for 10-11 you need 85 lb ones.

I can't wait to procharge mine in a couple of months.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:18 AM   #10
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Ok got it. I think we had talked before on my fuel pressure gauge thread about our injectors and we thought our injectors were probably around 43 lb injectors. With what your saying here the stock injectors just cant meet the demands at 7k rpm at 10 or 11 psi boost (to stay at 10.5-12 AFR) thus the need for bigger injectors. But not too big or too much fuel will get injected and wash down the cylinders. Does the procharger kit already come with specific sized injectors for certain boost applications? I want stay on stock internals, for now, but will have a meth injection done B4 the procharger kit goes in... So I might be running a little higher boost. Safely. And the fuel pump is ok with this kit and doesn't need upgrading?

You can run 1000 cc/min injectors on a 100% stock car. The size of the injector is independent of how much fuel the tune is commanding to spray at any given point. The only time you will run super rich when swapping injectors is if you fail to update the tune to account for the change.

Yeah, as far as i have seen the stock V6 pump is good to ~450 whp or so, maybe more, that's just what i have seen.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Kevin.Cook View Post
They come with 50 lb injectors by default. This is the ideal one for 7-8 psi. I think for 10-11 you need 85 lb ones.

I can't wait to procharge mine in a couple of months.
I know I've been keeping up on your thread and can tell your jazzed up about it. I still have a little ways to go before I'm ready
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:25 PM   #12
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Yup. No updates yet. Just waiting for Davidson to send me the info off the belt so I can order a new one. I want to try and use the least amount of used stuff as possible. As the miles on the kit are unknown.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
You can run 1000 cc/min injectors on a 100% stock car. The size of the injector is independent of how much fuel the tune is commanding to spray at any given point. The only time you will run super rich when swapping injectors is if you fail to update the tune to account for the change.

Yeah, as far as i have seen the stock V6 pump is good to ~450 whp or so, maybe more, that's just what i have seen.
Oh ok. So I can program, or rather the tuner can program the tune for what size injectors are in the car so the tune can change the length of time open and how much to open in that RPM window. Yeah so I just need to find out then how much max boost is safe then with the meth helping to cool things down to ward off detonation and what size injectors to get. Maybe the 50 lb ones would be ok for Erving out 2-3 more psi. And I'm glad I don't have to change out the pump. Shoot I'd be stoked if I was anywhere near 400 - 450 whp.

What is everyone doing with the boost between shifts? Bov or recirculated? I live in CA and bov might not be an option. I kinda like the idea of keeping things moving with recirculation rather than wasting it all out to atmosphere. Bov sounds cool though... On a manual lol
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:37 PM   #14
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Yup. No updates yet. Just waiting for Davidson to send me the info off the belt so I can order a new one. I want to try and use the least amount of used stuff as possible. As the miles on the kit are unknown.
Wise move using all new stuff. Are you installing yourself or having tuner do it? Are going BOV route or recirculating between shifts? You don't want all that boost having nowhere to go and stalling out your compressor. Shortens the life of it
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:49 PM   #15
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Well, "Voltwings" has volunteered to help me on this. So hopefully we can tackle this in a day. Since most of the kit itself is already pieced together. I will be using new spark plugs, check valve, procharger oil, and belt. The rest of the stuff I guess is fine to reuse. I am keeping the stock airbox with the aFe drop in filter.

As far as the BOV or recirculating, whatever the kit comes with by default is what I will be using for now.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:09 PM   #16
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^just trying to find out the package contents for myself but whats the check valve for? My problem will probably finding someone to tune it because dealing with CARB can take awhile so tuners out here might be playing catch up. Don't know for sure haven't checked that out yet
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:46 AM   #17
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^just trying to find out the package contents for myself but whats the check valve for? My problem will probably finding someone to tune it because dealing with CARB can take awhile so tuners out here might be playing catch up. Don't know for sure haven't checked that out yet
The check valve is to prevent the intake manifold from pressurizing the crankcase via the PCV when the system moves into positive pressure. You dont need a check valve in stock form because the intake manifold never sees positive pressure.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:51 AM   #18
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The check valve is to prevent the intake manifold from pressurizing the crankcase via the PCV when the system moves into positive pressure. You dont need a check valve in stock form because the intake manifold never sees positive pressure.
So that lil catch can JLT oil separator I just baught from AM will be useless or can I put the check valve in line? It has a oem style hard plastic tubing with fittings. If I had to I could get silicone tubing instead and ziptie it into the cans fittings and to the engine and intake fittings and put the check valve in that way after the catch can so it'll still catch oil when not on boost but close off before pressuring the can and the crankcase downstream.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:00 AM   #19
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Well, "Voltwings" has volunteered to help me on this. So hopefully we can tackle this in a day. Since most of the kit itself is already pieced together. I will be using new spark plugs, check valve, procharger oil, and belt. The rest of the stuff I guess is fine to reuse. I am keeping the stock airbox with the aFe drop in filter.

As far as the BOV or recirculating, whatever the kit comes with by default is what I will be using for now.
I was watching some YouTube install videos and the kit this one was using on a 05-10 GT came with a recirculating system so maybe that's what they come with? Just FYI Good to know. I'd rather have this type anyways.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #20
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So that lil catch can JLT oil separator I just baught from AM will be useless or can I put the check valve in line? It has a oem style hard plastic tubing with fittings. If I had to I could get silicone tubing instead and ziptie it into the cans fittings and to the engine and intake fittings and put the check valve in that way after the catch can so it'll still catch oil when not on boost but close off before pressuring the can and the crankcase downstream.
You are correct, you can run the PCV system as follows:

Intake manifold - <-Check valve - catch can - valve cover

This will allow vacuum from the intake manifold to pull PCV gases from the crankcase, but not allow boost to pressurize the crankcase or can. It is VERY important the CV go before the can, otherwise the can will explode lol i've seen this several times when people aren't careful.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:47 PM   #21
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You are correct, you can run the PCV system as follows:

Intake manifold - <-Check valve - catch can - valve cover

This will allow vacuum from the intake manifold to pull PCV gases from the crankcase, but not allow boost to pressurize the crankcase or can. It is VERY important the CV go before the can, otherwise the can will explode lol i've seen this several times when people aren't careful.
That is VERY useful info. But since you will be helping me if/when I get the procharger, I shouldn't have to worry.

I say if because I am still waiting for the guy to get back to me D:
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:59 PM   #22
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You are correct, you can run the PCV system as follows:

Intake manifold - <-Check valve - catch can - valve cover

This will allow vacuum from the intake manifold to pull PCV gases from the crankcase, but not allow boost to pressurize the crankcase or can. It is VERY important the CV go before the can, otherwise the can will explode lol i've seen this several times when people aren't careful.
Ya that's what I was thinking too lol. Big oily mess under the hood. Like a dirty grenade lol no bueno
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