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Old 09-04-2015, 02:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Strange Mud View Post
Volt, the last paragraph made me smile. idk how true it is but unless it involves changing direction I don't understand why rotating would be worse.
Yup haha because i said that exact thing earlier in this thread.

Also, the issue doesnt exist when conditions are constant. I dont believe it would take any more effort to rotate a 20 lb driveshaft at a constant speed than a 40 lb driveshaft due to the inertia involved. Like Ronnie said, the car wants to slow down quicker, and thats because there's less inertia keeping the driveshaft rotating. However, ( dont want to sound snarky when i say this) it seems pretty clear that it will take more effort, energy, work, load, what have you, from the engine to get a 40 lb driveshaft up to that speed vs a 20 lb one.

Same thing with light wheels when corner carving. The article says rotating mass stores energy. Its going to take a LOT of braking effort to slow down a car, regardless of the overall vehicle weight, if its got 60-70 lb steam rollers at each corner. The same can be said about accelerating. This is a bit more abstract, because removing rotational weight doesn't directly increase horsepower, but if you reduce the amount of energy that needs to "go into" the wheels, more effort can be used on acceleration.
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:17 PM   #37
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Volt, the last paragraph made me smile. idk how true it is but unless it involves changing direction I don't understand why rotating would be worse.
I think you'd have to run some sample calculations, with different values for the(at least 4) variables, and observe the effect of the changes to more easily see how it could happen.
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:11 PM   #38
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Have you ever regretted that you didn't get a carbon fiber one? After all, for an additional $400, you get something so cool.

I heard the carbon fiber one is a lot better in damping the torque, because cf is more elastic than aluminum.
I got the Dynotech 3 1/2 inch Aluminum Driveshaft..Like everyone else I like what I choose and have not had any problems........On the other hand my buddy got the carbon fiber driveshaft and he seems to be overly concerned with how heat will effect the carbon fiber..He told me he wishes he had gotten the aluminum one like I did..
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:13 PM   #39
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so after thinking about this.....i first got to thinking that the flywheel affect of ________ would only affect you when you were trying to brake, but then thought what magic would happen that made it harder to stop but not start. Flywheels take a good bit of energy to both get going and stop. That may be the root of the popular 4# rotate = 1# stationary.

admit to thinking out loud and wondering how much real life you could prove but thinking of flywheels I understand the theory.

unless of course I'm an idiot (may be true either way)
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Strange Mud View Post
so after thinking about this.....i first got to thinking that the flywheel affect of ________ would only affect you when you were trying to brake, but then thought what magic would happen that made it harder to stop but not start. Flywheels take a good bit of energy to both get going and stop. That may be the root of the popular 4# rotate = 1# stationary.

admit to thinking out loud and wondering how much real life you could prove but thinking of flywheels I understand the theory.

unless of course I'm an idiot (may be true either way)
Hey, at least you didn't say something, then cite an article which literally disproves what you just said haha, and admittedly, only because you didnt fully read the article before posting
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Old 09-04-2015, 04:05 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by liv4spd View Post
Have you ever regretted that you didn't get a carbon fiber one? After all, for an additional $400, you get something so cool.

I heard the carbon fiber one is a lot better in damping the torque, because cf is more elastic than aluminum.
You have that backwards. Carbon fiber is extremely brittle (with most types of epoxy, some will give it a bit of ductility, but it is never what I would consider to be elastic).

Aluminum on the other hand is a very ductile material. It bends before shearing, where carbon will just shear.

Also, if that were a real carbon driveshaft, it would weigh significantly less than this one does, it is likely an aluminum shaft with some carbon laid on it (this is what most "carbon" parts are in the aftermarket, unless they cost thousands more than the aluminum part).

Heat is also an issue with the low grade epoxy that many cheap manufacturers use. A good epoxy can handle more heat than our engines can produce (but that stuff is expensive in a way that mustang owners are not accustomed to).
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:14 PM   #42
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You have that backwards. Carbon fiber is extremely brittle (with most types of epoxy, some will give it a bit of ductility, but it is never what I would consider to be elastic).

Aluminum on the other hand is a very ductile material. It bends before shearing, where carbon will just shear.

Also, if that were a real carbon driveshaft, it would weigh significantly less than this one does, it is likely an aluminum shaft with some carbon laid on it (this is what most "carbon" parts are in the aftermarket, unless they cost thousands more than the aluminum part).

Heat is also an issue with the low grade epoxy that many cheap manufacturers use. A good epoxy can handle more heat than our engines can produce (but that stu is expensive in a way that mustang owners are not accustomed to).
That was the most uninformed post that I have read on the subject of carbon fiber drive shafts I've read thus far. . But of course this thread is not done yet.
Give the DSS shop and give them your thoughts. And post their reply.
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:20 PM   #43
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Just a thought.. When I started drag racing in 1972, We had to work real hard for that tenth in the quarter. I made a lot of mistakes and learned a lot about automotive engines. Though my career was as a M.E., A.E., the similarities between aircraft engines and automotive engines are both the same as well as quite different. At one point in my life I felt I pretty confident I could talk to any internal combustion engineer.
Today things are quite different. You can have a 10 second car and not know very much about about cars, all you need is money. Inversely, just because you spend a lot of money to go fast, it does not make you an expert on cars and engines. If this post upsets you, you should reflect on it.
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:46 PM   #44
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Today things are quite different. You can have a 10 second car and not know very much about about cars, all you need is money. Inversely, just because you spend a lot of money to go fast, it does not make you an expert on cars and engines. If this post upsets you, you should reflect on it.
The same could be said in 1972, you could know ***** all about cars but have money to pay someone to make it fast, doesn't make that person an expert either, in fact that can apply to just about anything.




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Old 09-04-2015, 06:53 PM   #45
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The same could be said in 1972, you could know ***** all about cars but have money to pay someone to make it fast, doesn't make that person an expert either, in fact that can apply to just about anything.




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Not quite. Very few people could afford to have a 10 second car built for them
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:00 PM   #46
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Not quite. Very few people could afford to have a 10 second car built for them
Cars are way more technical now then they were 40+ years ago.
Just because someone can make a 10s car today sure as hell doesn't make them less knowledgeable than days past. It still takes a ton of knowledge and $$$.
Ill respect both eras.
And yes you could have the equivalent of today's 10s cars in 1972 with little knowledge and just $$$, just a call to your local speed shop and lots of $$$.

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Old 09-04-2015, 07:03 PM   #47
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It takes zero knowledge. Just a call to american muscle
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:05 PM   #48
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It takes zero knowledge. Just a call to american muscle
Lol, well they do need the knowledge to make the call.

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Old 09-04-2015, 07:35 PM   #49
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Thank you for sharing! Please keep such useful information coming

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You have that backwards. Carbon fiber is extremely brittle (with most types of epoxy, some will give it a bit of ductility, but it is never what I would consider to be elastic).

Aluminum on the other hand is a very ductile material. It bends before shearing, where carbon will just shear.

Also, if that were a real carbon driveshaft, it would weigh significantly less than this one does, it is likely an aluminum shaft with some carbon laid on it (this is what most "carbon" parts are in the aftermarket, unless they cost thousands more than the aluminum part).

Heat is also an issue with the low grade epoxy that many cheap manufacturers use. A good epoxy can handle more heat than our engines can produce (but that stuff is expensive in a way that mustang owners are not accustomed to).
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:43 PM   #50
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Has anyone installed in a 3.7 Mustang a Fidanza lightweight aluminum flywheel (or any other brand aluminum lightweight flywheel)??

I did in a Camaro and a Corvette and it made such a huge night and day difference in instant throttle response, but have not done it in a Mustang.
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:38 PM   #51
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Has anyone installed in a 3.7 Mustang a Fidanza lightweight aluminum flywheel (or any other brand aluminum lightweight flywheel)??

I did in a Camaro and a Corvette and it made such a huge night and day difference in instant throttle response, but have not done it in a Mustang.
Would definitely like to know the answer to this as well.

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Old 09-05-2015, 04:57 AM   #52
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More thoughts...I assume the wheels will make a bigger change than the DS. Mostly due to the much larger diameter (also 4 of them!)
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:43 PM   #53
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Google can explain better than i can:

A rotating mass does not really consume or dissipate energy. A rotating mass stores energy. The rotating mass eventually either returns energy to the system in a useful way, or something converts the stored energy to some other form of unwanted energy. The conversion might be with a friction, converting to heat. The energy stored might be helpful, like the smoothing of cylinder pulses in an engine flywheel. The energy stored also might not do anything at all, or the stored energy can even be harmful, reducing acceleration or braking.

>>>>>>>>>>Missing pieces>>>>>>>>>
If we cut RPM in half, we would reduce stored energy to 1/4 the original amount. Once again this is a squared change. Change RPM three times, and the stored energy changes nine times. 3*3=9
We should carefully think about what this means when we change things. Some changes are worthwhile, some are not. We also cannot use carte blanche rules, like the silly rumor that reducing a rotating weight is like dropping the vehicle weight four times that amount. As a matter of fact, it is probably never four times. It is more likely closer to one, and might even be less than one!


Cited: Rotating Mass, Available Horsepower, and Acceleration
Damn Volt....damn.
good points though. it sounds like its all relative. Similar to the whole CAI argument. it works if everything after it is changed and adjusted and tuned fior the part. It works as a whole? I think im on the right page here...I feel like Towlie after reading that... :-/
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More thoughts...I assume the wheels will make a bigger change than the DS. Mostly due to the much larger diameter (also 4 of them!)
Wait wait wait...4? I knew we had a dual mass flywheel in these things which accounts for the decell vibrations, but were you refering to Volts 1# ~= 4# comment?
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:05 PM   #54
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Wheels and tires will always make a bigger difference because the mass there is also UNSPRUNG mass, which severely hampers the efficiency of the suspension because this creates unnecessary resistance against the springs and shocks, and causes a slower response time.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:22 PM   #55
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Has anyone installed in a 3.7 Mustang a Fidanza lightweight aluminum flywheel (or any other brand aluminum lightweight flywheel)??

I did in a Camaro and a Corvette and it made such a huge night and day difference in instant throttle response, but have not done it in a Mustang.

It also reved sooo much quicker, for the first day or so it would hit the rev limiter almost immediately until l got used to it.

It is such a fun modification that l would absolutely love to install a lightweight flywheel in the 3.7

It is a modification that is night and day noticeable, and ups the fun factor by a huge percent (wanted to say a zillion percent but didn't want to fend off the flack that percent might bring. LOL).
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:04 PM   #56
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How much is the labor fee to do this?

It's probably a good idea when your clutch burns out?

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It also reved sooo much quicker, for the first day or so it would hit the rev limiter almost immediately until l got used to it.

It is such a fun modification that l would absolutely love to install a lightweight flywheel in the 3.7

It is a modification that is night and day noticeable, and ups the fun factor by a huge percent (wanted to say a zillion percent but didn't want to fend off the flack that percent might bring. LOL).
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:51 PM   #57
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Fintle,

Wheels as in tires and wheels.....


GT1,

Is the flywheel vibration gone?
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:22 PM   #58
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Fintle,

Wheels as in tires and wheels.....


GT1,

Is the flywheel vibration gone?
Yeah, I didnt catch that till later, but Ive heard flywheel replacement should remove the vibration and in turn lessen your chances of blowing out your stock DS (as i have also heard that is the culprit for the sudden blow outs, but thats another thread.)
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:37 PM   #59
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As to wheels, if anyone is going to buy a GT-350R and wants to go aftermarket with their wheels, I'd like to buy your stock carbon fiber ones dirt cheap

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Fintle,

Wheels as in tires and wheels.....


GT1,

Is the flywheel vibration gone?
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