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Old 09-23-2015, 01:11 PM   #36
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I'm going to throw in a monkey wrench here (old saying). I have been looking at just the intake tube alone without the rest of the CAI kit. If your interested in the looks alone that's the way to go. I've seen them for $199.00. They will improve the air flow due to the elimination of the turbulence made from the sound resonators in the stock pipe. Don't get an aluminum one the are just big heat absorbers (heat soak). There is nothing wrong with the stock CAI, But it can be improved with the pipe alone. Plus I'm betting your are going to get a nice boost in intake sound. I'm pretty sure that this will be the best of both worlds.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:15 PM   #37
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I'm going to throw in a monkey wrench here (old saying). I have been looking at just the intake tube alone without the rest of the CAI kit. If your interested in the looks alone that's the way to go. I've seen them for $199.00. They will improve the air flow due to the elimination of the turbulence made from the sound resonators in the stock pipe. Don't get an aluminum one the are just big heat absorbers (heat soak). There is nothing wrong with the stock CAI, But it can be improved with the pipe alone. Plus I'm betting your are going to get a nice boost in intake sound. I'm pretty sure that this will be the best of both worlds.
Quite the opposite, that "sound resonator" is actually a Helmholtz resonator, and while eliminating sound is one function, amplifying pressure waves is another more important aspect.
I think the real debate here just comes down to the open element filter vs the airbox, assuming we are not actually changing the ID of the intake pipe.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:20 PM   #38
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I'm going to throw in a monkey wrench here (old saying). I have been looking at just the intake tube alone without the rest of the CAI kit. If your interested in the looks alone that's the way to go. I've seen them for $199.00. They will improve the air flow due to the elimination of the turbulence made from the sound resonators in the stock pipe. Don't get an aluminum one the are just big heat absorbers (heat soak). There is nothing wrong with the stock CAI, But it can be improved with the pipe alone. Plus I'm betting your are going to get a nice boost in intake sound. I'm pretty sure that this will be the best of both worlds.
Were you talking about $199 for just the intake tube? If so....where are you buying yours from? lol

AM sells the Airaid tube for $105. Plus you get 6% off.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:25 PM   #39
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Quite the opposite, that "sound resonator" is actually a Helmholtz resonator, and while eliminating sound is one function, amplifying pressure waves is another more important aspect.
I think the real debate here just comes down to the open element filter vs the airbox, assuming we are not actually changing the ID of the intake pipe.
Wrong... In this application it designed for the sole purpose of eliminating undesirable frequencies. I don't know how you get increasing air pressures out of that, you should do a paper on it. LOL

Kevin, Sound to me like AM is the place to buy it. @ $105.00 of course you don't want one that will transfer heat quickly like aluminum.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:28 PM   #40
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This should get interesting
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:30 PM   #41
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Wrong... In this application it designed for the sole purpose of eliminating undesirable frequencies. I don't know how you get increasing air pressures out of that, you should do a paper on it. LOL

Sound to me like AM is the place to buy it. @ $105.00 of course you don't want one that will transfer heat quickly like aluminum.
Yea the tube is pretty decent. Not feeling the biga** AIRAID word on it but it isn't made out of metal or aluminum so it does not "heat soak".

I have one for both of my Cyclones.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:37 PM   #42
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Wrong... In this application it designed for the sole purpose of eliminating undesirable frequencies. I don't know how you get increasing air pressures out of that, you should do a paper on it. LOL

Sound to me like AM is the place to buy it. @ $105.00 of course you don't want one that will transfer heat quickly like aluminum.
Plenty of other people already have:
Volumetric Efficiency and Helmholtz Resonators in an Air Intake in an IC Engine

FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS

https://www.physicsforums.com/thread...design.546927/

There's more, feel free to google yourself. These pressure waves work in function with harmonics from the intake manifold and cylidner head. Air has momentum, and when it stacks against a closed intake valve, it will start to revert back towards the plenum. The intake helmholtz will basically "revert" these waves back again towards an open intake valve. This process can occur several times, which is how you end up with "Second order" and "third order" harmonics for the intake manifold. It explains the differences in runner length for say, the Boss IM vs the standard GT IM, They are targeting different harmonics.
http://www.v-eight.com/multimedia/li...%20systems.pdf

And that, is how i got increasing pressures out of that.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:38 PM   #43
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Were you talking about $199 for just the intake tube? If so....where are you buying yours from? lol

AM sells the Airaid tube for $105. Plus you get 6% off.
Just looked at AM didn't see the $105.00 just the Airaid for $135.00. I just noticed them while browsing and researching air intakes a some time ago. Do you think you can send me that link when you get the time? ....Much appreciated.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:41 PM   #44
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Airaid Mustang Modular Intake Tube 450-945 (11-14 V6) - Free Shipping
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:57 PM   #45
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I'm gonna ban Volt for being too smart........
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #46
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I'm gonna ban Volt for being too smart........
I just apparently have more free time to browse the internet than everyone else haha.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:01 PM   #47
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I'm gonna ban Volt for being too smart........
He needs to be teaching at a college with that knowledge.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:06 PM   #48
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****, there are plenty folks here smarter than me. I really wish i had stuck with it and gotten my mechanical engineering degree, but now i just have to resort to getting what i can off google from various articles and papers. I also like buying old cheap books off Amazon, Just got one on performance braking systems that was about $8.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:08 PM   #49
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****, there are plenty folks here smarter than me. I really wish i had stuck with it and gotten my mechanical engineering degree, but now i just have to resort to getting what i can off google from various articles and papers. I also like buying old cheap books off Amazon, Just got one on performance braking systems that was about $8.
Sounds like a lot of untapped potential if you ask me!
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:13 PM   #50
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So, back to the issue at hand ... who wants to grab some datalogs? lol
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:33 PM   #51
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How Intake Resonators improve Volumetric Efficiency

I wonder how many people that have removed the stock intake resonator tube will be tempted to revert back after reading these articles?
I never changed mine for that reason.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:35 PM   #52
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I still won't. That is why they call me Yolo Swaggins
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:40 PM   #53
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I wonder how many people that have removed the stock intake resonator tube will be tempted to revert back after reading these articles?
I never changed mine for that reason.
Were no talking about the resonator tube. We are talking about the intake tube (the big tube). It has big resonators attached to the bottom of fit
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:43 PM   #54
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I forgot I was on the V6 forum. I was talking about the V8 tube but thanks for the link All this talk is actually making me think I may do the change over that I said I wouldn't do. I have an extra $135.00 to piss away. LOL
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:54 PM   #55
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I forgot I was on the V6 forum. I was talking about the V8 tube but thanks for the link All this talk is actually making me think I may do the change over that I said I wouldn't do. I have an extra $135.00 to piss away. LOL
CLOSE! This is the "I wish I had a V8" forum. LMAO!!!!
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:57 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Plenty of other people already have:
Volumetric Efficiency and Helmholtz Resonators in an Air Intake in an IC Engine

FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS

https://www.physicsforums.com/thread...design.546927/

There's more, feel free to google yourself. These pressure waves work in function with harmonics from the intake manifold and cylidner head. Air has momentum, and when it stacks against a closed intake valve, it will start to revert back towards the plenum. The intake helmholtz will basically "revert" these waves back again towards an open intake valve. This process can occur several times, which is how you end up with "Second order" and "third order" harmonics for the intake manifold. It explains the differences in runner length for say, the Boss IM vs the standard GT IM, They are targeting different harmonics.
http://www.v-eight.com/multimedia/li...%20systems.pdf

And that, is how i got increasing pressures out of that.

Rear it again or read it. I understand the principle they are talking about. SPW are unwanted in a closed system. Sound pressure waves interrupt the flow of a fluid or gas.
I learned that my second year I believe, Dowling Aeronautical College, Oakdale, NY Where I received my degree. In 1971.

(I suspect that's why aftermarket CAIs don't have any chambers in them).

Don't make me get out my old text books LOL
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:59 PM   #57
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CLOSE! This is the "I wish I had a V8" forum. LMAO!!!!
Then I'm in the wrong forum!
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:01 PM   #58
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Then I'm in the wrong forum!
We all are! LOL! I need to be in the V8 forum. Darn Ford built my car with the 2 cylinder delete package.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:09 PM   #59
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I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm on the wrong forum LMAO
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:12 PM   #60
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I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm on the wrong forum LMAO
There ya go man! IF all else fails, blame it on the forum!

I work in IT and when crap hits the fan, I just blame it on something random. Like The WiFi or something. LOL!!!!
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:15 PM   #61
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There ya go man! IF all else fails, blame it on the forum!

I work in IT and when crap hits the fan, I just blame it on something random. Like The WiFi or something. LOL!!!!
Hey are you in the Dallas area?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:20 PM   #62
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Crap, I didn't even get my popcorn and soda for this one!
Please carry on lol 😁

Sent from LG G3.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:23 PM   #63
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Hey are you in the Dallas area?
Right outside Austin. I have not been to Dallas. I drove through Houston once....
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:33 PM   #64
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Rear it again or read it. I understand the principle they are talking about. SPW are unwanted in a closed system. Sound pressure waves interrupt the flow of a fluid or gas.
I learned that my second year I believe, Dowling Aeronautical College, Oakdale, NY Where I received my degree. In 1971.

(I suspect that's why aftermarket CAIs don't have any chambers in them).

Don't make me get out my old text books LOL
Those articles say they help, plain as day, so you and i may just have to agree to disagree. Its the exact same principle with header design though.
The Catalyst is actually a "rebound point" for lack of better term, and the pressure waves go between the exhaust valves and the cat in a stock system. Removing the cats and going up in pipe diameter causes fixed cam cars to lose low end torque yes, we know this to be a fact, and that is because you essentially changed the harmonics and the pressure waves are not arriving or leaving the exhaust valves at the proper time. On a VVT car, you can change the timing of events to "reorchestrate" everything, maintain or improve velocity, and increase power. The intake and exhaust system operate nearly identically, you're just after different results.

I would be willing to bet after market CAIs do not have resonators for the simple fact that no one is going to spend the R&D on it. They see what space constraints they have, measure the MAF, slap a filter on it and call it a day.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:39 PM   #65
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Those articles say they help, plain as day, so you and i may just have to agree to disagree. Its the exact same principle with header design though.
The Catalyst is actually a "rebound point" for lack of better term, and the pressure waves go between the exhaust valves and the cat in a stock system. Removing the cats and going up in pipe diameter causes fixed cam cars to lose low end torque yes, we know this to be a fact, and that is because you essentially changed the harmonics and the pressure waves are not arriving or leaving the exhaust valves at the proper time. On a VVT car, you can change the timing of events to "reorchestrate" everything, maintain or improve velocity, and increase power. The intake and exhaust system operate nearly identically, you're just after different results.

I would be willing to bet after market CAIs do not have resonators for the simple fact that no one is going to spend the R&D on it. They see what space constraints they have, measure the MAF, slap a filter on it and call it a day.
See man. You are finding opportunities to capitalize on. Don't let us stand in your way!
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:42 PM   #66
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See man. You are finding opportunities to capitalize on. Don't let us stand in your way!
Maybe we'll just crowd fund the fluid dynamics software lol. Plus, they have no idea what other parts people will be running, so its worth neither the time, nor effort to try to maximize any one thing.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:45 PM   #67
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Maybe we'll just crowd fund the fluid dynamics software lol. Plus, they have no idea what other parts people will be running, so its worth neither the time, nor effort to try to maximize any one thing.
Make a GoFundMe account and spam places asking for donation. I have seen a few people do that for mods....
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:56 PM   #68
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Air follows the path of least resistance, so the resonator (stock tube) is going to have the same air flow as any other tube.

The only thing you will gain by replacing is engine volume (noise).

Remember, these companies are looking to make $$$ so they will claim anything they can, but it doesnt make it real.

IMO the only thing Ford didnt do right on our Stangs is the crappy tranny tune. Get an SCT first and go from there. You wont be disappointed.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:02 PM   #69
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Air follows the path of least resistance, so the resonator (stock tube) is going to have the same air flow as any other tube.

The only thing you will gain by replacing is engine volume (noise).

Remember, these companies are looking to make $$$ so they will claim anything they can, but it doesnt make it real.

IMO the only thing Ford didnt do right on our Stangs is the crappy tranny tune. Get an SCT first and go from there. You wont be disappointed.
*Clears throat*....Driveshaft....
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:09 PM   #70
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If aftermarket CAI's don't work aftermarket CAI's with helmholtz resonators will not work even better.

side note: I've read the chambers are for sound deadening in multiple places. idk if true but I believe it to be. I believe they adjust runner length for differant effects (speed/torque/rpms) but I'm not convinced they put them on my wifes Subi forester for any other reason.
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