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Old 09-23-2015, 05:09 PM   #71
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
Air follows the path of least resistance, so the resonator (stock tube) is going to have the same air flow as any other tube.

The only thing you will gain by replacing is engine volume (noise).

Remember, these companies are looking to make $$$ so they will claim anything they can, but it doesnt make it real.

IMO the only thing Ford didnt do right on our Stangs is the crappy tranny tune. Get an SCT first and go from there. You wont be disappointed.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
Air follows the path of least resistance, so the resonator (stock tube) is going to have the same air flow as any other tube.



The only thing you will gain by replacing is engine volume (noise).



Remember, these companies are looking to make $$$ so they will claim anything they can, but it doesnt make it real.



IMO the only thing Ford didnt do right on our Stangs is the crappy tranny tune. Get an SCT first and go from there. You wont be disappointed.

Placement of cup holders. Ugh.


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Old 09-23-2015, 06:09 PM   #74
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Wasn't all this discussed in another thread?
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:25 PM   #75
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I understand. But on the 13-14s, you can actually see the degrees of the Ambient Air Temp coming in to the intake as well as Engine Temp. Yes, the radiator does its work keeping the engine cool. But at the same time, an open filter intake has a higher chance to draw in hotter air.

This is why I ditched my Airaid. As the Ambient Temps were hitting 150+. Especially after I would go to the drag strip. I would let me car idle for a bit and the air temp that was being sucked in to the intake was horrifying. Now with my stock airbox, it is not as much of a problem. Again, yes the engine stayed cool. But this means the radiator, water pump, etc now has to work harder to keep everything cool when it really should not have to.

I understand you have the Temp gauge, which I assume is the needle that reflects the coolant/engine temp. But it does not tell you how hot that air is when it initially comes in to your intake. Unless you are using your SCT tuner to show the IAT.

So now that I went back with a closed box setup, my air temp during idle normally does not go over 120. When I had the open filter setup, it would easily hit 130-150 during idle.

Also, while the engine temp may be fine, keep in mind the hotter air coming in to the engine is not as dense. So you get less air within the volume your engine is taking in. All of this only matters though if you are trying to squeeze every last hp/tq from the car as I assume it will be minute to the Daily Driver.

I visited Florida not too long ago and while IT IS hot there. I say Texas is more hot. So you might not see the air temp fluctuate AS much as I do here.


And please, no one buy in to Royal Purple's "Purple Ice". It does not keep your engine any cooler. Tried it, showed 0 change.
What Ambient/intake temperature were you getting when you had the Airraid CAI? What ambient temp do you now get with the factory airbox.

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Old 09-23-2015, 07:13 PM   #76
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Well each day has its own variables and such. But i would say at idle, my car would experience 15 degrees or so, of the air being hotter then what it was outside. So say it was 100. At idle i would see my car hitting between 115-125 fairly easily with the Airaid "cai".

With racing and such, i would see about 135-145 degrees when idling right after.

Now with the stock box configuration, my idle air does go up a tad, but not nearly as bad as the full airaid kit. I think the highest I have seen is about 108 to 112 or so degrees. With racing, about 125 being the highest at idle.

These numbers can vary slightly due to temperature that day, amount of driving and idling, as well as other small things.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:15 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
What Ambient/intake temperature were you getting when you had the Airraid CAI? What ambient temp do you now get with the factory airbox.

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I monitored mine closely before and after I had the air raid cai installed (I returned it).

Numbers were virtually identical except for at idle the cai was slightly higher.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

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Huh? Mine came with 3.31
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:21 PM   #78
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I monitored mine closely before and after I had the air raid cai installed (I returned it).

Numbers were virtually identical except for at idle the cai was slightly higher.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------



Huh? Mine came with 3.31
Yours sir came with the V6 Performance Package (like mine). Which includes 3.31s. The base model comes with 2.73s.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
I monitored mine closely before and after I had the air raid cai installed (I returned it).

Numbers were virtually identical except for at idle the cai was slightly higher.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------



Huh? Mine came with 3.31
Most 3.7 stangs came with the horrendous 2.73s.
3.31s should have come stock with 3.55s or 3.73s as an option.
At the very least 3.15s would have been a better option.
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:55 PM   #80
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Since I'm this site's 3.7 defender and in fact the worlds defender of the 3.7 I'm gonna weigh in on this. I have had my Airraid CAI for over 4 years now and I'm very pleased with it. I originally purchased the CAI back then with the hopes of gaining rwhp and rwtq to pair with my tune. Did I actually gain rwhp and rwtq? I have no clue and further have no evidence to show any gains or loss in power. What I know is that the Airraid CAI makes great eye candy and looks better than the factory airbox when doing shows. The CAI also sounds great under WOT and much better than the factory airbox.

In closing, I have no regrets about buying a CAI regardless of power gains or not and regardless of increased Ambiant/intake temps. a big 👍up for CAI



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Old 09-23-2015, 09:26 PM   #81
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If aftermarket CAI's don't work aftermarket CAI's with helmholtz resonators will not work even better.

side note: I've read the chambers are for sound deadening in multiple places. idk if true but I believe it to be. I believe they adjust runner length for differant effects (speed/torque/rpms) but I'm not convinced they put them on my wifes Subi forester for any other reason.
I'm willing to accept i am wrong on this, however, i will debate my viewpoints tooth and nail until thoroughly convinced otherwise .

As far as your first point, in most cases* a CAI makes power by increases the M part of that D=m/v equation. Yes, we're starting to split hairs at this point, but i still stand by it.

Secondly, i know the resonators act as a sound dampening device, but take into consideration the fact that no stock turbo car (that i am aware of) employs one. Mazdaspeed3, Cobalt SS turbo, Neon Srt-4, Subaru WRX ... not a single one has any sort of resonators on their intakes. If you think about it, you're not really as concerned about intake resonance on a motor that is being force fed now are you?

Also, the engine in your wife's forester is not a one-off engine. Subaru really only makes 3 engines, a Na flat 4, a boosted flat 4, and a Na flat 6 lol. There's probably a lot of overlap, and utilization of that engine in multiple platforms.


All that being said though, Sakib and i are going to get together and make a day out of doing some testing for yall. May be a few weeks, but everyone just sit tight, we'll get all the answers soon enough.
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Old 09-23-2015, 10:30 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by FastFord13 View Post
Most 3.7 stangs came with the horrendous 2.73s.
3.31s should have come stock with 3.55s or 3.73s as an option.
At the very least 3.15s would have been a better option.
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Oh duh... Agreed!!!
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
I'm willing to accept i am wrong on this, however, i will debate my viewpoints tooth and nail until thoroughly convinced otherwise .

As far as your first point, in most cases* a CAI makes power by increases the M part of that D=m/v equation. Yes, we're starting to split hairs at this point, but i still stand by it. Agree, but assume you agree that on the Stang it'll be warmer air and the filter is the main restrictor so that may be what to change with it's own risks

Secondly, i know the resonators act as a sound dampening device, but take into consideration the fact that no stock turbo car (that i am aware of) employs one. Mazdaspeed3, Cobalt SS turbo, Neon Srt-4, Subaru WRX ... not a single one has any sort of resonators on their intakes. If you think about it, you're not really as concerned about intake resonance on a motor that is being force fed now are you? idk about resonance on turbos let me think on that, but since adding resonators = $ and performance people enjoy noise (think motor sound effects thru the radio) it may be as simple as cost.

Also, the engine in your wife's forester is not a one-off engine. Subaru really only makes 3 engines, a Na flat 4, a boosted flat 4, and a Na flat 6 lol. There's probably a lot of overlap, and utilization of that engine in multiple platforms. Not really a point but isn't the 3.7 now a one off engine?


All that being said though, Sakib and i are going to get together and make a day out of doing some testing for yall. May be a few weeks, but everyone just sit tight, we'll get all the answers soon enough. This is cool Mud likes science!

I tend to think the result whatever way it goes will only be repeatable on paper or possibly the dyno but the numbers will be within the tolerance of error of the dyno. The track is the only place you'll possibly see them and the driver will be a bigger factor in any of this.

Oh yeah, so all of us don't have to write it each post, we all know and respect each other this is all good discussion about learning and opinions. Differences in them are allowed.
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:01 AM   #84
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I tend to think the result whatever way it goes will only be repeatable on paper or possibly the dyno but the numbers will be within the tolerance of error of the dyno. The track is the only place you'll possibly see them and the driver will be a bigger factor in any of this.

Oh yeah, so all of us don't have to write it each post, we all know and respect each other this is all good discussion about learning and opinions. Differences in them are allowed.
I agree, i think the results will be marginally different at best. As of now, we plan on testing:

stock air box idle / air raid idle - cold tests measuring intake temp so the intakes arent heat soaked from driving.

Probably 3 3rd gear pulls from 3k to redline with each intake, and averaging the intake temps and MAF g/s, as well as averaging the datalogs in virtual dyno.

Then, a hot idle test with each intake to see if it matters.

I'll also bring my pressure gauge to see if the stock airbox manages to get any "ram air" effect as well.

Testing will be done same day, same car, same tune, same gas, same stretch of road ... Should be about as apples to apples as it can get.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:18 PM   #85
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Sounds like a plan Volt. You know know ive been an Anti CAI person from day one on the forum. i do agree I like the sound it makes, but that's also why i got one off Ebay for $50 lol. I'm surprised no one has tried to use the stock airbox has a heat shield in conjunction with a CAI...essentially fitting a CAI open air filter inside the box, but who knows. keep us posted.
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Old 09-24-2015, 07:20 PM   #86
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Okay so I have been communicating with Volt by email and not reading this thread, and he had some incomplete information from me when he wrote the plan above and so it's not quite right. Here is the real plan.

My car is a 2012 V6 auto. I am currently Steeda tuned with a stock intake. I purchased a Steeda CAI and received a revised Steeda tune for the CAI. Just like Volt, I never really believed in CAIs. But because Steeda has a larger MAF diameter, I thought that if any CAI has a shot, it is Steeda. I bought this primarily to satisfy my engineering/scientific curiosity. Even if my experiment shows that it doesn't make a difference, at least I answered the question for everyone, and I'm left with something that looks and sounds good. I can take it out for drag strip days if we find that it makes a big negative difference.

We will datalog 3 trials of 3rd gear pulls with the follow setups:
1) Stock tune with stock intake,
2) Steeda tune with stock intake (my current setup),
3) Steeda tune with Steeda CAI.

Notice that all CAI and tuning companies report their horsepower increases as the tune and the CAI coupled together. They don't say what is the hp increase with a tune alone, or a CAI intake alone. With the tests I proposed, we can compare how much the tune alone (test #2) affects performance over pure stock (test #1). Then we can compare how much the tune+CAI (test #3) affects performance over just the tune (test #2). Basically this subtracts the effect of the tune from the number. That's something the manufacturers never report, so I think this will be very useful information for consumers (you all).

We will analyze the data and report the follow results as mean and standard deviation of the 3 trials:
1) Intake air temperature,
2) MAF,
3) 0-60mph time,
4) 20-80mph time
5) Horsepower using Virtual Dyno

If we can get on a drag strip, we could do 1/4 time and trap speed, but that might depend on scheduling between me and Voltwings, and availability of drag strips.

We will also measure idle air temperature and pressures for stock and Steeda intakes, as Voltwings mentioned.

We are still in the process of scheduling together, so there is time to edit these methods. Please let us know if you have suggestions for the experiment.
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Old 09-24-2015, 07:27 PM   #87
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Great! I hope you guys can prove us sceptics wrong! I hope for something other than just looks and sound from my Airaid. Thumbs guys!!!!
If there are gains with the steeda can we assume us Airaid guys would have some also? Because if there are gains with the Steeda and not with the Airaid my airaid will be in the classified section lol.
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:43 PM   #88
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1) Stock tune with stock intake,
2) Steeda tune with stock intake (my current setup),
3) Steeda tune with Steeda CAI.


Almost seems like you should be including "A stock tune with a CAI that doesn't require a tune.(Steeda insert allows you to run your factory tune.)

Also, are we talking the same octane for all test??
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Old 09-25-2015, 01:31 AM   #89
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Those articles say they help, plain as day, so you and i may just have to agree to disagree. Its the exact same principle with header design though.
The Catalyst is actually a "rebound point" for lack of better term, and the pressure waves go between the exhaust valves and the cat in a stock system. Removing the cats and going up in pipe diameter causes fixed cam cars to lose low end torque yes, we know this to be a fact, and that is because you essentially changed the harmonics and the pressure waves are not arriving or leaving the exhaust valves at the proper time. On a VVT car, you can change the timing of events to "reorchestrate" everything, maintain or improve velocity, and increase power. The intake and exhaust system operate nearly identically, you're just after different results.

I would be willing to bet after market CAIs do not have resonators for the simple fact that no one is going to spend the R&D on it. They see what space constraints they have, measure the MAF, slap a filter on it and call it a day.
Maybe your right but I don't know any engineers that would leave efficiency on the table.

I hope your talking about the exhaust valve not the intake valve. It would only effect the intake valve if the cam has a long duration. But you know what, you may be right. I'm so old I may not remember harmonic rebound from the exhaust event as well as I should.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:08 AM   #90
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Ain't no problem here. I Give my thoughts and I recieve others thoughts on things. That is what a forum is. Discussions.
If we were all sitting around in a diner like we did in the old days we would still be hashing out stuff and either agreeing or not agreeing but still remaining friends. This forum is kind of like that.
When I say something really stupid just call me out on it. I really miss the old days of hanging out at the diner, Street Racing, Going to the Drag strip on Saturday night or Sunday and just talking car smack etc.
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I've tried to setup a "Car's & Coffee" no luck yet. I did the Airaid "tube" & aFe Dry-S filter on mine and am happy.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:24 AM   #91
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Since I'm this site's 3.7 defender and in fact the worlds defender of the 3.7 I'm gonna weigh in on this. I have had my Airraid CAI for over 4 years now and I'm very pleased with it. I originally purchased the CAI back then with the hopes of gaining rwhp and rwtq to pair with my tune. Did I actually gain rwhp and rwtq? I have no clue and further have no evidence to show any gains or loss in power. What I know is that the Airraid CAI makes great eye candy and looks better than the factory airbox when doing shows. The CAI also sounds great under WOT and much better than the factory airbox.

In closing, I have no regrets about buying a CAI regardless of power gains or not and regardless of increased Ambiant/intake temps. a big ������up for CAI



Non ������and non ������fed. I $uck!
Most everyone here is a defender of the 3.7, so I see no issues with that.
As to a CAI purchase for performance, I'd agree with those that the money can be better spent on something else that's proven. Nice eye candy? Yes, it is.
Its all in what you see your Mustang as doing for you.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:12 AM   #92
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1) Stock tune with stock intake,
2) Steeda tune with stock intake (my current setup),
3) Steeda tune with Steeda CAI.


Almost seems like you should be including "A stock tune with a CAI that doesn't require a tune.(Steeda insert allows you to run your factory tune.)

Also, are we talking the same octane for all test??
we're talking same car, same day, same tank of gas for all tests. If the steeda comes with an insert so it can be run on the stock tune, then yes, we'll figure out where to work that into the system as well.
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:23 AM   #93
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we're talking same car, same day, same tank of gas for all tests. If the steeda comes with an insert so it can be run on the stock tune, then yes, we'll figure out where to work that into the system as well.
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:37 AM   #94
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No insert on the 3.7 variety.

Subbed for results. I've got a steeda in my car and been in one with the airraid. From a feel perspective the steeda is definitely more raw and responsive feeling. Faster? Hard to know without numbers which this testing will provide. Would be cool if you had access to the airraid MIT as another option between steeda and bone stock.
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Old 09-25-2015, 11:44 AM   #95
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I think its great and cool you guys are doing this comparison. My guess is that if there are any power gains and a big IF, they will be small. Also, my guess is that a CAI would only get its gains with having a full exhaust system to compliment it. Meaning, long tubes and off road X or H pipe.



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Old 09-25-2015, 11:55 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Diehard View Post
1) Stock tune with stock intake,
2) Steeda tune with stock intake (my current setup),
3) Steeda tune with Steeda CAI.


Almost seems like you should be including "A stock tune with a CAI that doesn't require a tune.(Steeda insert allows you to run your factory tune.)

Also, are we talking the same octane for all test??
Voltwings beat me to it (I really don't log on to this forum much anymore, too busy in my new job). Yes, I run 93 octane tunes. Everything is going to be on the same day, same car, same gas, and about the same DA too probably! As for the CAI without tune, I am not aware of this insert you speak of... do you have a link? And money to buy it for me? j/k
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Old 09-25-2015, 01:01 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by FastFord13 View Post
Great! I hope you guys can prove us sceptics wrong! I hope for something other than just looks and sound from my Airaid. Thumbs guys!!!!
If there are gains with the steeda can we assume us Airaid guys would have some also? Because if there are gains with the Steeda and not with the Airaid my airaid will be in the classified section lol.
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No insert on the 3.7 variety.

Subbed for results. I've got a steeda in my car and been in one with the airraid. From a feel perspective the steeda is definitely more raw and responsive feeling. Faster? Hard to know without numbers which this testing will provide. Would be cool if you had access to the airraid MIT as another option between steeda and bone stock.
I can see how there would be interest and benefit for consumers to see the difference between Steeda and Airraid. Maybe we can add that as another test, but I'm not going to buy another intake. Voltwings's fiancee has an Airraid, maybe we can borrow hers. I have Steeda unlimited tunes, so I could ask them if they could send me a tune for Airraid. In fact, if we have time we could perhaps add another test with the Airraid: CAI without the tune. You can't do that with Steeda. Anyway, if we do all these tests it will take a lot of time, so Voltwings and I will discuss and see what we can reasonably work out.
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Old 09-25-2015, 01:22 PM   #98
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Based on other ME members who I personally consider very knowledgable about our mustangs, the aftermarket CAI won't do crap to increase ones performance and acceleration. I would recommend reclassifing a CAI as a sound, visual appearance modification and not a power modification.

If people are looking for a nice eye candy under the hood item then , the CAI is a great addition. If people are wanting a more aggressive sound coming from the engine bay while WOT, then the CAI is a great item. That's really the bottom line at the end of the day. The CAI is a sound enhancing and appearance enhancing mod.

I'm very happy with my Airraid CAI and would buy another one in a heart beat if I had another mustang.

Non 🍼and non 🌽fed. I $uck!
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Old 09-25-2015, 01:31 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Based on other ME members who I personally consider very knowledgable about our mustangs, the aftermarket CAI won't do crap to increase ones performance and acceleration. I would recommend reclassifing a CAI as a sound, visual appearance modification and not a power modification.

If people are looking for a nice eye candy under the hood item then , the CAI is a great addition. If people are wanting a more aggressive sound coming from the engine bay while WOT, then the CAI is a great item. That's really the bottom line at the end of the day. The CAI is a sound enhancing and appearance enhancing mod.

I'm very happy with my Airraid CAI and would buy another one in a heart beat if I had another mustang.

Non 🍼and non 🌽fed. I $uck!
You very well may be right, and I've said nearly identical things as you before. But the whole point of this experiment is to quantify it with real evidence. I don't just take people's "word" on things. Not the CAI and tuning companies' word that they add 30+ hp, and not the Ford chief engineer's word that the stock intake is as optimized as can be. I want to see the data for myself, quantify the results, and make it public for everyone to see.
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Old 09-25-2015, 01:44 PM   #100
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Voltwings beat me to it (I really don't log on to this forum much anymore, too busy in my new job). Yes, I run 93 octane tunes. Everything is going to be on the same day, same car, same gas, and about the same DA too probably! As for the CAI without tune, I am not aware of this insert you speak of... do you have a link? And money to buy it for me? j/k
Sorry, jumped the gun on the insert. Didn't see that it was for the GT only.
I "was" thinking the Airaid would have been a good one to use for the no-tune with CAI test option but didn't want to push it.
Here's an interesting video (many of you have probably seen already) that shows no gain from stock to the addition of Steeda CAI and "initial" tune.
Not until the "3rd tune revision" did they see a substantial gain.
All 93 octane
BUT 3rd pull was a week and half later. ???
So another possible variable, to complicate the results, that understandably can't be included. But to keep in the back of our minds.

EDIT: Looks like this is a video by our own Ish416.
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Old 09-25-2015, 02:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue View Post
Based on other ME members who I personally consider very knowledgable about our mustangs, the aftermarket CAI won't do crap to increase ones performance and acceleration. I would recommend reclassifing a CAI as a sound, visual appearance modification and not a power modification.

If people are looking for a nice eye candy under the hood item then , the CAI is a great addition. If people are wanting a more aggressive sound coming from the engine bay while WOT, then the CAI is a great item. That's really the bottom line at the end of the day. The CAI is a sound enhancing and appearance enhancing mod.

I'm very happy with my Airraid CAI and would buy another one in a heart beat if I had another mustang.

Non 🍼and non 🌽fed. I $uck!
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Originally Posted by Sakib View Post
You very well may be right, and I've said nearly identical things as you before. But the whole point of this experiment is to quantify it with real evidence. I don't just take people's "word" on things. Not the CAI and tuning companies' word that they add 30+ hp, and not the Ford chief engineer's word that the stock intake is as optimized as can be. I want to see the data for myself, quantify the results, and make it public for everyone to see.
Several things to test here as well, not just airflow, but temperature and effectiveness of the stock airbox / ram air. I don't think we're trying to defend one view point or the other, just finally putting this debate to rest haha.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:00 PM   #102
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Several things to test here as well, not just airflow, but temperature and effectiveness of the stock airbox / ram air. I don't think we're trying to defend one view point or the other, just finally putting this debate to rest haha.
Along with your efforts to check for ram air effects with the stock air box did you have any plans to compare differential pressures across the different filter element types?
Final results of all this stuff should make for a good white paper.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:15 PM   #103
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I'm definitely approaching this in an objective, scientific manner, and I know Voltwings is as well. I'll conduct these experiments in the same controlled way that I conduct my own experiments in the lab for my job (research scientist and professor at Texas A&M). Doing it because I want to answer the question, not to prove a certain point-of-view.

Diehard - are you aware of how we could get pressure readings after the filter element? I think it is a good idea, but I am personally not aware of how we could do it in conjunction with the trials we have planned for the other tests. It almost sounds like a separate test that would have to be done on a bench-top setup, just looking at the pressure differential before and after the filter element.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:21 PM   #104
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Sorry, jumped the gun on the insert. Didn't see that it was for the GT only.
I "was" thinking the Airaid would have been a good one to use for the no-tune with CAI test option but didn't want to push it.
Here's an interesting video (many of you have probably seen already) that shows no gain from stock to the addition of Steeda CAI and "initial" tune.
Not until the "3rd tune revision" did they see a substantial gain.
All 93 octane
BUT 3rd pull was a week and half later. ???
So another possible variable, to complicate the results, that understandably can't be included. But to keep in the back of our minds.

EDIT: Looks like this is a video by our own Ish416.
Yes, I love that post of Ish416 and it was one of the reasons that I went with Steeda for my tunes in the first place. He had a very good experience with Steeda customer service in that thread. Too bad Ish had such a bad experience with his Mustang after that, though his problems were unrelated to the tune.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:29 PM   #105
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I don't remember my wife's 3.7 being that slow, then again I only drove it a few times. That is horribly depressing


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