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Old 12-19-2015, 08:46 PM   #36
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[QUOTE=Diehard;2320720]I'd say the biggest gain in fuel efficiency for you would be to slow down a bit.
Don't you have state troopers that will slow you down?

Used to race as a hobby on weekends even attended driving schools for defensive driving etc. If it's still in business check out Bertril Roos' school its great) and don't go crazy in traffic so I am careful if that's what you mean.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:59 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=Logan541;2320796]
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I'd say the biggest gain in fuel efficiency for you would be to slow down a bit.
Don't you have state troopers that will slow you down?

Used to race as a hobby on weekends even attended driving schools for defensive driving etc. If it's still in business check out Bertril Roos' school its great) and don't go crazy in traffic so I am careful if that's what you mean.
I just meant the 80 to 100. If I drove at that speed for a few miles around here, I would get pulled over by state troopers, for sure.
And of course you know after about 55 mph the MPG starts dropping off quite fast.
I'm assuming you don't drive at 80 to 100 for any length of time.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:11 PM   #38
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[QUOTE=Diehard;2320803]
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I just meant the 80 to 100. If I drove at that speed for a few miles around here, I would get pulled over by state troopers, for sure.
And of course you know after about 55 mph the MPG starts dropping off quite fast.
I'm assuming you don't drive at 80 to 100 for any length of time.
About 6 -12 miles each way, and have gotten pulled over from time time and warned to slow down a bit. I am getting about 27 on average. See in the old days tunes were non existent you added headers a good exhaust and intake it bumped up mileage and power, wondering if it is the same today. Someone told me just get a tune but that made no sense.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:18 PM   #39
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Also still wondering between shorties or long tubes
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:26 PM   #40
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Also still wondering between shorties or long tubes
I went shorties, they make power where we need it. That and LT's for all practical purposes are not legal by federal law.

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Old 12-19-2015, 09:33 PM   #41
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H pipe, X pipe no pipe, keep cats lose cats? I have no inspections here.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:48 PM   #42
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X pipe will add rasp and some power. H pipe will deepen slightly removing some rasp. Some power but not as much as x pipe.

You might see 2-4hp from an xpipe under certain circumstances as they flow the best.

Mpg wise. I doubt you would see much difference. The only time h and x pipe difference will really help you is a heavy mod turbo or super charge motor. Usually above 500hp is when we've started being careful with the exhaust vs just finding the tone we wanted from the motor. I'm sure some people will disagree with me on that but that's how I've always done it and there's been plenty of my builds run 8s at a track.


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Old 12-22-2015, 09:27 PM   #43
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X pipe will add rasp and some power. H pipe will deepen slightly removing some rasp. Some power but not as much as x pipe.

You might see 2-4hp from an xpipe under certain circumstances as they flow the best.

Mpg wise. I doubt you would see much difference. The only time h and x pipe difference will really help you is a heavy mod turbo or super charge motor. Usually above 500hp is when we've started being careful with the exhaust vs just finding the tone we wanted from the motor. I'm sure some people will disagree with me on that but that's how I've always done it and there's been plenty of my builds run 8s at a track.


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Your pretty much right. Go for sound when modding your exhaust. Not much is needed as you won't gain much power unless you remove the cats. The 2.25 exhaust is good for 400 hp.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:08 PM   #44
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I plan on losing the cat's. No inspections in my area
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:13 PM   #45
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Make sure you keep them, my buddy was written by a NC State Trooper for other than stock Cats on his F150 and still paid a $1500 fine after putting it back to stock.

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Old 12-23-2015, 08:48 AM   #46
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Even with out inspections it is illegal to remove the cats and not replace them. You can put on aftermarket ones which will open up the power a bit and increase the sound levels.

Also if you remove the cats you need to have a tune for this. I would use a tune even if you switch to a performance cat because the exhaust will travel at different temperatures, velocity and the o2 sensors will be thrown off by this.

Like I said before if you want sound the easiest way it's to use shorty headers to make it deeper.
X pipe for more rasp
H pipe for less rasp
And what ever axle back you like.

If you want power.
Use short or long headers
Short with give you more low end grunt (which our cars need)
Long give you more top end Hp
Remove the cats
Use and xpipe for power as it produces a slight bit more
Use any muffler you chose however a straight through like a glass pack will produce the best.
Tune for the cats.
All of that said and money spent. Your looking at maybe 35hp gained and most of which will be due to the new tune. This is a modest gain in power however it's not going to shave a second off the 1/4miles for you. Nor will it allow you to beat the corvette that's next to you.

If your going to be going to fi eventually than I would start here with the power adders and jump to the long tube headers as this is what the turbos will require. (If I'm not mistaken. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here)
Superchargers/pro chargers will perform better on a long tube set up. (This I know from old school motors I have built.) that could be different in these motors but I would doubt it.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:22 AM   #47
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Thanks

Thanks guys this is some good information like I said I am mainly interested in picking up 1-2 mpg but this is all good. If it is going to change the tone I want deeper so I am guessing long tubes and H pipe are the way to go, no sure what I will do with rest of system.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:28 AM   #48
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Long tube will require a tune.

Short tube does not require a tune and will deepen the tone and help remove some rasp as well.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:49 AM   #49
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Long tube will require a tune.

Short tube does not require a tune and will deepen the tone and help remove some rasp as well.
Ahh, thats good to know I thought long tubes would deepen it more, and short tubes made it raspy. OK short tubes it is then and looks like they will be easier to install too.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:57 AM   #50
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Short Tubes, FRPP Cut and Clamp X-Pipe will deepen whatever you are running for axle backs, no Rasp at all with my Borlas.
You normally are not going to get the rasp until you remove the stock cats and resonators.
I would tell you to come listen to mine but I am over 2 hours away.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:05 AM   #51
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Forgive me but what is FRPP?
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:16 AM   #52
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Forgive me but what is FRPP?
Ford Racing Performance Parts https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/
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Old 12-23-2015, 01:23 PM   #53
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Just a brand. And the rasp all depends on the axle back set up. If your running roush or some of the other raspy mufflers you would want to avoid the xpipe.

I have bby shortys with resonators paired with the roush ab and it sounds mean as hell. It's not raspy unless I'm free revving but who does that in a v6 anyway lol. It's got a nice deep growl to it.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:52 PM   #54
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More Rasp comes from the Mid pipe over the A/B's, you can get a lot of drone and some Rasp but for the most part people complain about the drone from Axle Backs.
And a little FWIW, replacing a Functioning OEM Catalytic Converter is against the law, Relocating an EOM Catalytic Converter is against the law and replacing a non Functional Catalytic Converter with anything but an OEM or OEM replacement is against the law, so high flows are out, the reason they say for off road use only.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:02 PM   #55
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Not worried about the cats. If you don't get emission testing then it isn't a big deal. The performance gain from the catless system is awesome and worth the money. Sounds really mean too. Emissions are a joke....I mean look at how serious vw was about emissions. They got away with it for years on end.

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Old 12-23-2015, 11:08 PM   #56
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Oh i agree and s far as all this global warming I think its a joke, so that's not a concern and if it needs a tune it needs a tune. I just want some better Mpgs without adding a raspy sound, I like more of a low rumble sound
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:11 PM   #57
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Siber express is correct on the legal issues. However. Completely wrong on ab portion. Yes rasp is produced in different mid pipes but each axle back will produce more or less rasp.

The muffler is a huge aid in the tone of the car. For example. If you take the stock mufflers off and put on pypes bombs you will have a lot of rasp because they are a cheaper exhaust with little design in them. There is rasp in a completely stock system. The pypes bombs do not have the baffling that the stock mufflers have so it increases the volume of your exhaust and enhances the rasp.
Now if you compare the pypes to let's say a borla exhaust. The Borla will be just as loud as pypes, will have a deeper tone in comparison, and reduce the rasp.

Those are just two examples. The mufflers are all designed to produce certain tones and sounds to create your own unique sounding muscle car.

Keep in mind now with all of that said that rasp can be produced any where in any exhaust system. This 3.7 motor is a rasp producing machine and can be tricky to make a clean sounding rasp free sound. It's been done by a lot of us it just takes time to find the components that create the sound you like.

Changing to headers of any kind (long or short) will reduce some rasp as it deepens the tone a bit. Rasp is higher pitches noise so the deep you can get the less rasp you'll end up with.
Long tubes will ultimately be deeper than short tubes and also produce more top end while short tubes give more low end torque.

Mid pipes
X pipes will be the biggest rasp producer and the bigger power adder.

H pipes will produce less rasp than an x pipe and also less power.

J pipes will be the least raspy if designed properly and will produce the same power as an h pipe.

Axle backs.

No designs weather round or oval are guaranteed to be less raspy or create power compared to another. All I can say is the more you pay the cleaner sound you'll typically receive.
Round cases do not use baffles and therefore are typically deeper because it slows down the sound waves due to less pressure in the system.
Oval cases will utilize baffles
This will put more back pressure into the exhaust system giving the designer much more control over the tone. They can be deeper or higher pitched than round case designs. That all depends on the packing materials used, the baffle designs and locations, etc.

The length of the muffler case will affect the sound as well.

The longer the case the deeper the tone will be. Prime example. Honda Civic with a fart can on it. Usually 8" long. High pitch annoying sound.
Stock civic muffler. Much longer and much quieter.

You can also use resonators in an exhaust system to reduce rasp and or deepen the tone.

Hope this helped clear up some confusion.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:16 PM   #58
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All this info is great, Siber you confirmed most of what I had formulated on my own, however I never heard of a j pipe.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:18 PM   #59
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A j pipe is basically a c placed backward in the mid pipe. Works very similar to the h pipe.
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:19 PM   #60
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I cant even find a pic of one
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:19 PM   #61
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Just google j pipe exhaust lol.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:18 AM   #62
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The only reason I start on what is and is not legal is everyone's answer is long tubes and an off road mid pipe.
As I stated my friend in NC was stopped and written with High Flow cats on his F-150, and this was after it had passed smog in NC twice. The law he was wrote up on was a Federal law, not state and he got it a DUI check point by a Smart cop (and knowing James he was being a Smart ). Our Stock Cats flow pretty good also, so unless you are going F/I they will more than likely flow more than you will ever need and removing them is still illegal no matter how many people say it is OK to do it. Impounding your vehicle and crushing it is an option for the Feds also, so I stayed legal because I would be the one that got caught.
Now in regards to the Resonators on our V6 cars, they need them unless you are
just racing, it might look restrictive but it does one more thing there also, it creates back pressure helping on the low end and mid range torque.
I have also read on this and other forums about what to put on after they removed all the Cats and Resonators because of Rasp and drone, too loud ECT. so read up before you do major exhaust changes, what sound's good to me or someone else you might think sounds like crap and Vise Versa, that goes for Rasp, Drone and general over all sound when completed. So removing your Resonators for weight and putting on a set of GT take offs or a set of Vibrant glass packs does nothing, and might actually weight more.
Off my soap box now
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:33 PM   #63
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I actually just put on Long tube headers and an X pipe with hi flow cats myself I did it at an auto skills shop on base it took about 6 hours for the install I had an extra semi helpful pair of hands (girlfriend) careful with the o2 sensor one of mine was kinda friction welded in a bit took some vise grips and a cheater pipe to get it off I'm not a big fan of how raspy the X pipe is
Overall it's loud as hell now, although I used some roofing insulation under my seats and trunk (no it doesn't smell and works great)
It is deep and gurgles from idle to 3k rpm but gets raspy from 3-4 then mellows out, although it's still in the breaking period I hear the rasp does go away time will tell
I didn't get a check engine light or anything and don't have a tune yet (left for thee holidays) although I am getting a dyno tune once I get back

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Old 12-24-2015, 12:36 PM   #64
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I bought some pypes axel backs as well but haven't put them on, right now I'm using the mac exhaust I'll pick the one I like better then sell the other I would not recommend going callers it really isn't a big enough performance gain to risk getting a ticket also I've seen a few guys with the cables setup an personally I think it's just obnoxious, more of a look at me type thing

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Old 12-24-2015, 09:09 PM   #65
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I just bought a scissor lift to make it easier to do this type of stuff
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Old 12-24-2015, 09:36 PM   #66
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A J-pipe is simply a length pipe added before your muffler, as perpendicular to your existing pipe as possible (it should look like a T). It's as simple as that. Although it's often called a j tube, it's actually better if it's straight, as the more it bends the more sound bounces back before reaching the full length. The j shape comes from having to fit it in small spaces.
There is an exact science and formula to determine the exact length required to eliminate drone at a specific RPM. In fact I believe I once saw one that had an adjustable piece to allow you to vary the length for trial and error.
Also referred to as a resonator tube or Helmholtz tubes.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:00 AM   #67
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Removing the cats adds a great deal of power. You don't need f/I to get the gains. Also, with vvt, back pressure is useless and does not help the engine. If it didn't add worthy gains people wouldn't be changing the headers, cats, and mid pipes and companies would be standing by the products with proof if the performance gains.

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Old 12-25-2015, 12:11 AM   #68
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vvt?
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:30 AM   #69
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Removing the cats adds a great deal of power. You don't need f/I to get the gains. Also, with vvt, back pressure is useless and does not help the engine. If it didn't add worthy gains people wouldn't be changing the headers, cats, and mid pipes and companies would be standing by the products with proof if the performance gains.

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So tell me how legal that is again, I was commenting on the fact that it was illegal to do anything to your Cats, period and you just keep talking about the gains without cats. The post was also talking about how everyone says to do this and this no matter how illegal it is and offers no other way that is legal in which there are ways without losing more than a couple of HP doing it.
Also most of the Companies have "For Off Road Use Only/Not for Highway Use" on their Box, but you say nothing about that either.
It just seems strange that most of the Truck sites I am on you can't even go into EGR deletes and stuff like that because it is illegal and on this and most of the Mustang sites you get razed because you do not do it illegal and let others know of a legal ways to do it
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:13 AM   #70
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If your car came with a catalytic converter you're looking at fines of up to $10,000 for removing it. Sort of. Removing the catalytic converter is illegal, but getting caught without one isn't--most states will simply suspend your smog certification until you get a new one installed. Reason being they can't tell if you bought the car without a cat or not
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