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Old 10-16-2015, 09:53 AM   #71
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Quote:
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What is this bracket everyone keeps talking about?
Gt bracket to use gt rotors maybe.

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Old 10-16-2015, 09:56 AM   #72
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Correct. The carrier is what bolts the caliper to the hub, and the GT has a larger carrier to clear the larger rotors.
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:57 AM   #73
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Fintile,

I spoke to AM on the phone when I was trying to figure out which way to go and they said it was only sold as a whole caliper/bracket set. So I just went with the rotor swap. Before I had the pad failure I felt like I had all the braking you could ever really use, I think the manual PP cars came with upgraded pads, so maybe that was it. So all in all I'm happy with the 12.4" rotors that came with the car. As I'm writing this I'm remembering though that the larger rotors just give you more heat dispersion thus longer before the brakes fade. If I lived in the mountain I might feel differently.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:06 AM   #74
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Fintile,

I spoke to AM on the phone when I was trying to figure out which way to go and they said it was only sold as a whole caliper/bracket set. So I just went with the rotor swap. Before I had the pad failure I felt like I had all the braking you could ever really use, I think the manual PP cars came with upgraded pads, so maybe that was it. So all in all I'm happy with the 12.4" rotors that came with the car. As I'm writing this I'm remembering though that the larger rotors just give you more heat dispersion thus longer before the brakes fade. If I lived in the mountain I might feel differently.
This is correct, even the 14" Brembos dont stop any harder than standard GT brakes, they just last longer in extreme driving situations.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:24 AM   #75
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This is correct, even the 14" Brembos dont stop any harder than standard GT brakes, they just last longer in extreme driving situations.
What about the piston count in the calipers?
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:30 AM   #76
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The hydraulic force is still the same. The Brembo is a fixed caliper with 4 pistons, 2 for each pad. The standard caliper is a floating caliper (pistons on one side with a fixed opposing side on slides) with 2 pistons only on one side.

The advantage of a fixed caliper is it doesnt flex under hard braking, which leads to more even pad wear. I can flex a floating caliper with my hands.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:34 AM   #77
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My apologies - I meant the 6 piston ones on the newer 5.0s w/ track pack.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:36 AM   #78
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Same deal. You'll get a mechanical advantage with a larger diameter rotor, but its minimal compared to increases in pad friction material. The larger rotors just dictate more pistons for even coverage, a 15" rotor with 1 piston doesnt make sense, and 2 wont quite cover the radius, so 3 (per side) makes sense you know. I'll dig out my brake book tonight and do the math if i remember, but ultimately stopping force comes down to the tires.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:12 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ppkonablue12 View Post
Fintile,

I spoke to AM on the phone when I was trying to figure out which way to go and they said it was only sold as a whole caliper/bracket set. So I just went with the rotor swap. Before I had the pad failure I felt like I had all the braking you could ever really use, I think the manual PP cars came with upgraded pads, so maybe that was it. So all in all I'm happy with the 12.4" rotors that came with the car. As I'm writing this I'm remembering though that the larger rotors just give you more heat dispersion thus longer before the brakes fade. If I lived in the mountain I might feel differently.
Very true however I have done a couple of the new England Cruises and going through some of the windy roads I got some MAJOR brake fade and it got so bad that my brake pedal was practically solid. I couldn't press it down to slow down at all. I had to engine brake the whole last leg of the cruise. It sucked.
Now I dont have the Perf Pack. (Im so tired of ppl using "PP" to designate performance Package. PP also could be Pony Package ya know) I have the Pony Pack so I just have the standard V6 braking system.


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This is correct, even the 14" Brembos dont stop any harder than standard GT brakes, they just last longer in extreme driving situations.
Its what i'm looking for


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Same deal. You'll get a mechanical advantage with a larger diameter rotor, but its minimal compared to increases in pad friction material. The larger rotors just dictate more pistons for even coverage, a 15" rotor with 1 piston doesnt make sense, and 2 wont quite cover the radius, so 3 (per side) makes sense you know. I'll dig out my brake book tonight and do the math if i remember, but ultimately stopping force comes down to the tires.
I hear this a lot and I agree but I dont care about stopping more than i do slowing the car down to take a sudden turn or to not have the brake fade I experience when I do happen to get on the brakes pretty hard...I will say that I am surprised these pads have lasted this long. 4 years and they guys in my service department say the pads have another 25% life before i should even think about replacing them...gotta love the long lasting pads on these cars.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:14 AM   #80
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ultimately stopping force comes down to the tires.
this...even a 15yo Toyota can lock up the tires with ABS not factored in. On track is where you need the larger diameter to dissipate heat and at the parking lot for the cool factor.

Different systems will feel different which on track MAY give pros advantages but it's the tires. My butt dyno can tell between the Nero's and the summer only with the same brakes
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:14 AM   #81
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If your pedal is rock solid and you're not stopping, then you've over heated and glazed the pads. If your pedal drops to the floor and you have no pressure at all, then you have boiled the fluid and need larger rotors with a larger thermal capacity.

If you're not interested in running brake ducts, and you're running a good DOT4 brake fluid, you can place titanium shims between the pads and calipers to help keep some heat out of them. Consequently, this will induce more heat into the fluid, but if thats not a problem you're having yet, then its not a big deal.

You can slap some of these bad boys on there to see where your problem is:

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=708
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:22 AM   #82
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If your pedal is rock solid and you're not stopping, then you've over heated and glazed the pads. If your pedal drops to the floor and you have no pressure at all, then you have boiled the fluid and need larger rotors with a larger thermal capacity.

If you're not interested in running brake ducts, and you're running a good DOT4 brake fluid, you can place titanium shims between the pads and calipers to help keep some heat out of them. Consequently, this will induce more heat into the fluid, but if thats not a problem you're having yet, then its not a big deal.
I have had it happen a couple time while getting off the freeways back home in Cali and maybe once or twice out here in Ma. I'll be going 80 and a car just cuts right in front of me and I have to hit the brakes...tires dont lock up or squeal, just the pedal starts to suddenly drop after a good min. and they feel real "mushy". On the cruise is wheni felt them get solid...so that was the glazing...how to help prevent that? better air flow to the calipers?
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:31 AM   #83
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So any time you get mushy pedal the brakes should be bled, because they've boiled and youve now got moisture and air in there.

The solid pedal and not stopping is glazed pads, and there are a few ways around this: Better pads, better airflow to the calipers, titanium shims...

Obviously you dont want to run a track pad on the street because they dust and squeal like hell, but they also dont brake very well UNDER a certain temperature, which could be dangerous on the street. A Performance street pad, or maybe even autocross pad like a carbotech 1521 (street) or AX6 (autox) may be worth looking into.

Brake ducts are always good, but the hoses become a wear item every 10-15k miles because they rub on things down there as the steering wheel turns, and honestly if you're not tracking you shouldnt need them.

Titanium shims. An off the shelf "DOT4" fluid costs about $13 at the autoparts store, but some proper DOT4 (i run motul RBF600) will cost you about $25 a bottle. If you want to keep heat out of the pads, it has to go somewhere, which is often into the caliper, and thus into the fluid. The cause of all your problems is simply heat, you just have to figure out which is the chicken, and which is the egg, the pad or the rotor (boiling fluid).
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:56 AM   #84
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I knew it....ok cool. So for a little while I have been looking into a a different kind of brake solution. I found a brake kit with Street/Track pads SS brake lines and new fluid. However, I wouldn't use the fluid supplied; I will most likely use ATE' Super Blue. I just wasnt sure this was going to help my problem and to be honest i havnt had the issue as much, but i do occasionally get that fadding issue where it slowly doesnt slow me down as quickly as it normally does and it gets a little mushy

LOL Maybe i can re route my windshield washer fluid down toward my brakes so when I hit the brakes hard I can give them a little squirt...
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:14 PM   #85
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Check the price of that vs just getting some quality pads and fluid. The lines help with feel, but wont really help the issue you're having.

BTW, 949 sells miata stuff, dont go try to buy mustang pads there haha.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:00 PM   #86
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How would i use that graph to compare? i can see the XP-16 (if i owned a Miata) would be the one I want. Something to work well while on the street but can also handle a lot of heat.
The ATe' Super Blue is a racing brake fluid (if you were not already aware of it which i would find hard to believe that you didnt already know about it heh heh) and its ratted to have a higher boiling point than most DOT4 fluids out there.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:21 PM   #87
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How would i use that graph to compare? i can see the XP-16 (if i owned a Miata) would be the one I want. Something to work well while on the street but can also handle a lot of heat.
The ATe' Super Blue is a racing brake fluid (if you were not already aware of it which i would find hard to believe that you didnt already know about it heh heh) and its ratted to have a higher boiling point than most DOT4 fluids out there.
no no no no lol the XP16 is a very dedicated track pad, and will chew up rotors, even more so when the pad is cold. I'd look at the 1521, the AX6, or at the most the XP8. That graph is showing their operating range, basically means the XP16 doesnt even work below 250* and could be dangerous on the street due to lack of bite at too low of temps, whereas the others will be at a much more useful operating range.

Also, the ATE is very good fluid, but make sure you're comparing wet boiling points, not dry boiling points. All brake fluid is Hydrophilic (it attracts moisture) so you always want to compare wet boiling points. Some DOT4 folks will claim a dry boiling point in the mid 500s, but a wet boiling point in the high 300s lol ... useless. I've never been able to overheat XP10s on track with brake ducts, i'd be highly surprised if you manage to tax any of the above mention pads more than they could handle on the street.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:40 PM   #88
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I have had it happen a couple time while getting off the freeways back home in Cali and maybe once or twice out here in Ma. I'll be going 80 and a car just cuts right in front of me and I have to hit the brakes...tires dont lock up or squeal, just the pedal starts to suddenly drop after a good min. and they feel real "mushy". On the cruise is wheni felt them get solid...so that was the glazing...how to help prevent that? better air flow to the calipers?
pedal drops after a minute? How long is it taking you to stop? idk (ask Volt) but look up bedding brakes...mayhap that will help. Also, what gear are you running in...in the fun bits I'm normally in 3rd or sometime 2nd.
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Old 10-16-2015, 02:11 PM   #89
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no no no no lol the XP16 is a very dedicated track pad, and will chew up rotors, even more so when the pad is cold. I'd look at the 1521, the AX6, or at the most the XP8. That graph is showing their operating range, basically means the XP16 doesnt even work below 250* and could be dangerous on the street due to lack of bite at too low of temps, whereas the others will be at a much more useful operating range.

Also, the ATE is very good fluid, but make sure you're comparing wet boiling points, not dry boiling points. All brake fluid is Hydrophilic (it attracts moisture) so you always want to compare wet boiling points. Some DOT4 folks will claim a dry boiling point in the mid 500s, but a wet boiling point in the high 300s lol ... useless. I've never been able to overheat XP10s on track with brake ducts, i'd be highly surprised if you manage to tax any of the above mention pads more than they could handle on the street.
Oh wow, did not know that brake fluid is hydrophilic (kind of sounds dirty ) Well for one I should get mine redone pretty soon. its been 4 years! Never changed it out.
I'll look into that Wet boiling point too.


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pedal drops after a minute? How long is it taking you to stop? idk (ask Volt) but look up bedding brakes...mayhap that will help. Also, what gear are you running in...in the fun bits I'm normally in 3rd or sometime 2nd.
Im all over the place with gears...The initial cruise im in 3rd maybe 4th just for the slower pace and then 2nd when i want to romp on it, but i do push it a little bit harder by waiting a bit longer before I brake...it also doesnt help when you have a 20 YO kid with a GT ridding your A$$ on both leggs LOL
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:19 PM   #90
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For what its worth, I switched from the stock Perf Pack brake pads (which were great for panic stops and the cruises without any fade that I could notice) to Hawk HPS (High Perf Street) pads and definitely noticed improved initial stopping. They do groan/squeak a bit more, but performed well over the winter and didn't produce any dust I could see. The stock rotors are mediocre. I "warped" one of my front rotors at around 20k miles of mostly commuter driving. I did replace the fronts with OEM takeoffs (I put the Hawk pads on at the same time)...so far, so good.

I'm thinking for you, pads/rotors/fluid would probably make a huge difference, and if you do the work yourself, be pretty economical vs. replacing tires.
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:30 PM   #91
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Anyone ever heard anything about V6 performance pack manual and auto cars having different sized brakes? Couldn't resist Kevin.

Catching up on this thread as I can see that PowerStop kit in my immediate future; I'm thinking get the GT set for my sixer and all I need are the GT caliper brackets to make it work. Am I understanding correctly?
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:02 PM   #92
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Anyone ever heard anything about V6 performance pack manual and auto cars having different sized brakes? Couldn't resist Kevin.

Catching up on this thread as I can see that PowerStop kit in my immediate future; I'm thinking get the GT set for my sixer and all I need are the GT caliper brackets to make it work. Am I understanding correctly?

Correct.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:54 AM   #93
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Got the front rotors yesterday and got them installed. They look great! Feel about the same as about 5k miles ago when the stock Performance Package ( PP is way easier ) brakes were in their prime. All in all happy with the Power Stop kit. The brake pedal is a bit lighter than before, and if I keep pressure it will go to the floor... so I'm thinking there's some bleeding still to be done. Volt you got an opinion ?
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:06 AM   #94
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Its possible, but it could also be because the pads are fresh, how did you bed them in?

Typically street pads are pretty lenient with what they'll accept, i typically will do 5-8 medium stops from around 35-40 to get some heat in the pad, then another 5-8 harder stops (firm pedal, but not trying to kick ABS on or anything) from around 45-50, and thats typically good. Its not uncommon for the pads to smoke a little doing this, thats basically just creating the transfer layer of pad material onto the rotor.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:27 AM   #95
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I did 5 40mph to 5mph without letting them cool... then 5 25mph to stopped running a 1/2 mile in-between those to let things cool. That's what the pad instructions said to do... but as you well know there's a difference between reading something and actually knowing why you're doing what you're doing- I was just following instructions.
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Old 10-17-2015, 12:16 PM   #96
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If any if you like the islands... Our small resorts is going to be featured in Bravo TV's "Below Decks" show again today at 3pm. Mentiontgis forum and you'll get A 15% discount too
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:13 PM   #97
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I'm not going to quote 100 people, so i'll just hopefully answer everything here:

4. All 05-10 MUSTANGS and 11-14 mustangs use the same 11.8" rear, only the '13-14 GT500 has larger rear rotors.

hopefully thats everything.
Fixed. The rear rotors were all the same, no difference between V6 and V8 for 05-10

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Old 10-18-2015, 09:39 AM   #98
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Fixed. The rear rotors were all the same, no difference between V6 and V8 for 05-10

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Thanks, i knew about the GT but wasnt sure about the 4.0.
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