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Old 11-24-2015, 09:27 AM   #1
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Perfect Shift Points?

So after doing some reading, perfect shift points is what im looking for now. I know I know its a noob question! lol.
I know it all depends on the car. But for me, I have a O/R H pipe, tune, borla ataks, Steeda CAI. Stock 2.73 gears.
Day to day i keep it under 3rpm maybe about 2.5 for daily driving. But for racing?
Up until now Iv been redlining it. Shift around 6 - 6.5.

What are your thoughts on shift points? When do you shift when racing?
Any experience shifting too late?
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:00 AM   #2
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I shift between 7200 - 7500 when drag racing.

Seems to work the best for me.

Only way to know for sure, dyno the car, look at the graph and stay in the area with highest average power.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:13 AM   #3
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The dyno graph of your car, plus knowing your gear ratios is what is going to answer that question for you.

I'm going to assume you have a standard, so here are the 3.7L MT82 ratios:

Stock V6 MT-82 ratios:
4.24
2.54
1.66
1.24
1.00
0.70

i've also attached a pretty generic 3.7L dyno i found on google. If you look at the graph, it appears power holds pretty flat starting at about 6000 until about 6700-6800, then slightly falls of towards 7000.

What we basically want to do is maximize the amount of time you spend in that large flat region. Lets say you're in second gear and shift to 3rd at 6500 rpms. The change in ratio from 2nd to 3rd is a 2.54 to a 1.66, or about 65% of the RPM you were at when you shifted, so that would drop you from 6500 to about 4250. As you can see, that drops you back pretty far into the power band and you have to climb back up to that flat portion. Lets see what happens when we shift from 2nd to 3rd at 7000 instead. a 65% drop from 7000 brings us back to 4550 rpms. Still not where we want to be, but certainly better than shifting at 6500.

So naturally one would be inclined to just keep shifting higher until you get your fall back point where you want it. Aside from potentially damaging the engine, you have to take into account the fact that power is dropping after 7k, so riding out a drop on the big end for the sake of eliminating a drop after the shift really isnt doing you much good. If it were me, i would be shifting at 7000-7200 - discuss what redline your tuner feels safe and has set in your tune, i am making my assumptions purely off the gearing and powerband.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
The dyno graph of your car, plus knowing your gear ratios is what is going to answer that question for you.

I'm going to assume you have a standard, so here are the 3.7L MT82 ratios:

Stock V6 MT-82 ratios:
4.24
2.54
1.66
1.24
1.00
0.70

i've also attached a pretty generic 3.7L dyno i found on google. If you look at the graph, it appears power holds pretty flat starting at about 6000 until about 6700-6800, then slightly falls of towards 7000.

What we basically want to do is maximize the amount of time you spend in that large flat region. Lets say you're in second gear and shift to 3rd at 6500 rpms. The change in ratio from 2nd to 3rd is a 2.54 to a 1.66, or about 65% of the RPM you were at when you shifted, so that would drop you from 6500 to about 4250. As you can see, that drops you back pretty far into the power band and you have to climb back up to that flat portion. Lets see what happens when we shift from 2nd to 3rd at 7000 instead. a 65% drop from 7000 brings us back to 4550 rpms. Still not where we want to be, but certainly better than shifting at 6500.

So naturally one would be inclined to just keep shifting higher until you get your fall back point where you want it. Aside from potentially damaging the engine, you have to take into account the fact that power is dropping after 7k, so riding out a drop on the big end for the sake of eliminating a drop after the shift really isnt doing you much good. If it were me, i would be shifting at 7000-7200 - discuss what redline your tuner feels safe and has set in your tune, i am making my assumptions purely off the gearing and powerband.
Interesting.
So my 6-6.5 shifting is pretty much on point then lol. Well kinda, I dont want to redline it I feel as if it can hurt the car. 7-7.5 rpms never even gone that far
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:52 AM   #5
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Not sure how you came to that conclusion, but shifting at 6000-6500 is too low, i would be shifting at at least 7000.
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Old 11-24-2015, 10:55 AM   #6
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Not sure how you came to that conclusion, but shifting at 6000-6500 is too low, i would be shifting at at least 7000.
Sorry didnt finish the post. Hit submit accidently
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:19 AM   #7
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Sorry didnt finish the post. Hit submit accidently
7k is nothing on these motors, though i'd be slightly more hesitant to go to 7500. I know the 5.0 can take it, and this engine is of similar design, i just dont know for certain.
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:25 AM   #8
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Alright then thanks man! im not gnna be scared to shift at 7 now. Im gonna try em out see how it goes. Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:37 PM   #9
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After you find out where your max torque point is on a dyno you want to shift where your rpms drop to that point. You are speed shifting right? No clutch
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:55 AM   #10
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After you find out where your max torque point is on a dyno you want to shift where your rpms drop to that point. You are speed shifting right? No clutch
No I always punch the clutch. If anything if im really feeling it i might power shift and not take my foot of the gas but even then i have only tried that once. To scared to do damage to the car yeah i know im a scardy cat.
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:28 AM   #11
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No I always punch the clutch. If anything if im really feeling it i might power shift and not take my foot of the gas but even then i have only tried that once. To scared to do damage to the car yeah i know im a scardy cat.
Me to man. I am not a pro with Manual transmissions. But they are much more fun to drive to me then an Auto. Luckily I have both. lol
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:34 AM   #12
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Me to man. I am not a pro with Manual transmissions. But they are much more fun to drive to me then an Auto. Luckily I have both. lol
lol they are! Iv always preferred manual rather than auto.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ALLYDRIVER1 View Post
After you find out where your max torque point is on a dyno you want to shift where your rpms drop to that point. You are speed shifting right? No clutch
Speed shifting using no clutch will kill your transmission in just a few shifts as things are moving at different rates and need the clutch to off load the torque in order to get the next gear.


No lift shifting on the other hand ... I've done that .... a lot.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:42 PM   #14
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No clutch will not hurt transmission IF YOU MOVE STICK QUICK ENOUGH,GRANTED YOU NEED TO GET RID OF OEM SLUSH SHIFTER. If you are worried about the senco's take them out. Will be able to shift faster
EVER HEAR OF RONNIE SOX? BEST tranny man in the sport in early 60's
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:36 PM   #15
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No clutch will not hurt transmission IF YOU MOVE STICK QUICK ENOUGH,GRANTED YOU NEED TO GET RID OF OEM SLUSH SHIFTER. If you are worried about the senco's take them out. Will be able to shift faster
EVER HEAR OF RONNIE SOX? BEST tranny man in the sport in early 60's
Good for Ronnie Sox, sadly not even he could shift the MT82 without using the clutch or breaking something.

I'm not an NHRA legend but I have won a few UMTR events. Which I think qualifies me as being able to race a manual transmission car fairly well.

These cars have a synchromesh transmission. You can't just bang the next gear. The shafts and gears are all spinning at different RPM. You have to offload something somewhere, That is where the clutch and synchros and come in.

Even a dog boxed (face plated) transmission still has to have a load taken off of it to get the next gear.

You can shift to the next gear assuming you rev match for that gear. Accelerating would mean letting the rpms fall by themselves in neutral and then tapping the throttle and going into gear. Down shifting would be the opposite, with revving the engine in neutral and then putting it into gear. If the revs aren't close, you will get the grind.


I shift this way when driving around town. It is far from being faster than using the clutch.

If it were a sequential gearbox, then sure, bang away.

Best way to think about it, if you can skip gears, you can't bang them.


Please upload a video to youtube of yourself speed shifting with no clutch in your car.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:43 PM   #16
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Good for Ronnie Sox, sadly not even he could shift the MT82 without using the clutch or breaking something.

I'm not an NHRA legend but I have won a few UMTR events. Which I think qualifies me as being able to race a manual transmission car fairly well.

These cars have a synchromesh transmission. You can't just bang the next gear. The shafts and gears are all spinning at different RPM. You have to offload something somewhere, That is where the clutch and synchros and come in.

Even a dog boxed (face plated) transmission still has to have a load taken off of it to get the next gear.

You can shift to the next gear assuming you rev match for that gear. Accelerating would mean letting the rpms fall by themselves in neutral and then tapping the throttle and going into gear. Down shifting would be the opposite, with revving the engine in neutral and then putting it into gear. If the revs aren't close, you will get the grind.


I shift this way when driving around town. It is far from being faster than using the clutch.

If it were a sequential gearbox, then sure, bang away.

Best way to think about it, if you can skip gears, you can't bang them.


Please upload a video to youtube of yourself speed shifting with no clutch in your car.
+1. Its NOT something you should do! I've done it once and its not pleasant. I'll just power shift thanks.😃

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Old 11-25-2015, 05:10 PM   #17
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Good for Ronnie Sox, sadly not even he could shift the MT82 without using the clutch or breaking something.

I'm not an NHRA legend but I have won a few UMTR events. Which I think qualifies me as being able to race a manual transmission car fairly well.

These cars have a synchromesh transmission. You can't just bang the next gear. The shafts and gears are all spinning at different RPM. You have to offload something somewhere, That is where the clutch and synchros and come in.

Even a dog boxed (face plated) transmission still has to have a load taken off of it to get the next gear.

You can shift to the next gear assuming you rev match for that gear. Accelerating would mean letting the rpms fall by themselves in neutral and then tapping the throttle and going into gear. Down shifting would be the opposite, with revving the engine in neutral and then putting it into gear. If the revs aren't close, you will get the grind.


I shift this way when driving around town. It is far from being faster than using the clutch.

If it were a sequential gearbox, then sure, bang away.

Best way to think about it, if you can skip gears, you can't bang them.


Please upload a video to youtube of yourself speed shifting with no clutch in your car.
Lol, pwned. You gotta love the internet racers.
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:31 PM   #18
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Yea scotty i know what you mean! There's at least one on every site, if you can't shift a manual without a clutch, you need one of two things if you are serious about drag racing
. Learn how or get a slush box
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:51 PM   #19
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Yea scotty i know what you mean! There's at least one on every site, if you can't shift a manual without a clutch, you need one of two things if you are serious about drag racing
. Learn how or get a slush box
And learn how rebuild your mt 82....😛😛😛 These trany's aren't the greatest to begin with. Just use your clutch and power shift.

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Old 11-26-2015, 08:30 PM   #20
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Yea scotty i know what you mean! There's at least one on every site, if you can't shift a manual without a clutch, you need one of two things if you are serious about drag racing
. Learn how or get a slush box
He was talking about you buddy. Everything ish said about these transmissions was on point. I see you have a 96 and a 94. Do you have personal experience with the MT82 that allows you to make the comments you're making?
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:16 PM   #21
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He was talking about you buddy. Everything ish said about these transmissions was on point. I see you have a 96 and a 94. Do you have personal experience with the MT82 that allows you to make the comments you're making?
Lol pwned #2. Only time one should be no lift shifting really is with a faceplated trans setup specifically for that. And at that point unless you need a stick shift for whatever class you are running in just go auto. No human on earth can outshift a properly setup auto and that is a simple fact.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:26 PM   #22
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Lol pwned #2. Only time one should be no lift shifting really is with a faceplated trans setup specifically for that. And at that point unless you need a stick shift for whatever class you are running in just go auto. No human on earth except Ronnie Sox and ALLYDRIVER1 can outshift a properly setup auto and that is a simple fact.
Fixed it for you.

Faceplated Tremecs ftw.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:05 AM   #23
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Lol pwned #2. Only time one should be no lift shifting really is with a faceplated trans setup specifically for that. And at that point unless you need a stick shift for whatever class you are running in just go auto. No human on earth can outshift a properly setup auto and that is a simple fact.
Wonder why the GT 350R only comes in a manual....
Oh wait its because they are "TRACK" ready cars. 😛😛
But then again the 2017 Ford Gt has a dual clutch auto which is the best of both worlds.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:58 AM   #24
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The tune also needs to be set up to handle a Flat foot shift. If you shift at 7000 and leave the pedal to the floor on a tune not set up for flat foot shifting, the RPMS will shoot up to redline and then they will drag back down as the clutch reengages. You can actually hear this happening, and it will cause clutch wear and isn't really all that fast (FFS really doesn't matter on a car that isn't turbo anyways).

The proper way to set up a FFS is to have the FFS rev limiter set low. For example, on a stock turbo mazdaspeed3 we shift at 6000 because that's where the turbo dies off. For that reason, i set the FFS rev limiter to about 5200. That way when you press the clutch in instead of the revs shooting up they actually get pulled back down and it avoids the drag on the clutch.
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:30 PM   #25
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Wonder why the GT 350R only comes in a manual....
Oh wait its because they are "TRACK" ready cars. 😛😛
But then again the 2017 Ford Gt has a dual clutch auto which is the best of both worlds.
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I'm not talking about a road course I'm talking about the 1/4 which is generally what 99% of people are talking about when they say "shift points". But I get what you are saying. Can't heel/toe an auto...
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:37 PM   #26
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Only time I try and shift without the clutch is in rental vehicles 😜. Not to many manuals in rentals anymore though


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Old 11-28-2015, 08:05 PM   #27
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I'm not talking about a road course I'm talking about the 1/4 which is generally what 99% of people are talking about when they say "shift points". But I get what you are saying. Can't heel/toe an auto...
Yep, an auto in the 1/4 will just be more consistent and when set up properly will have an edge. 👍

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Old 11-28-2015, 08:07 PM   #28
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Only time I try and shift without the clutch is in rental vehicles 😜. Not to many manuals in rentals anymore though


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I did it once in my mt 82, Never again!

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