JBA Cat4ward Shorty Headers? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-12-2016, 05:12 PM   #1
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JBA Cat4ward Shorty Headers?

So like the rest of you, I go back and forth until the moment gets close then it's even worse! I had previously decided to go BBK long tubes and catted X-pipe. Now that the moment is here two things are becoming more clear.

1) How much more performance am I really going to see from going with LT over shorties on a V6? Especially as the car will never be tracked unless I find a rich friend.

2) LT and catted midpipes are going to run me about $830 off of Auto Anything. (Sorry Alex, Auto Anything has a 20% thing going on and AM just can't match that.)

I have always just said no way to BBK shorties with all the install PIA remarks I've read. HOWEVER, now I'm seeing these JBA shorties for our sixers. Run about $50 more than the BBK and the design looks a bit different. Anyone out there have any experience with the JBA shorties? Also, does anyone know of any links comparing shorty performance to LT performance. Everything I see always throws a tuner in the mix and I can't find an apples to apples comparison. Shorty's with tune vs LT with tune (or both without tune).

Any input or experience would be greatly appreciated as my "Pay Now" finger is twitching.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:57 PM   #2
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If you live your life on the drag strip long tubes, since most of the gains are from the high mid range and up, Shorties are low to mid range gains and since that is really where are cars need help for normal use I went shorties.
BTW no matter what you do with Long Tubes there are illegal for street use even with a catted mid pipe since federal law says you have to have OEM cats or an OEM replacement mounted in the OEM location.
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Old 03-12-2016, 09:47 PM   #3
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Been looking for shortys as well. Check AA's 20% exclusions. JBA is excluded. Price shown states 15% off sale.

Does anyone know if one (BBK vs JBA) is easier than the other to install? Assuming you do it yourself.

Thank you.
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:09 PM   #4
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I have the BBK'S, not hard to install, just the time it takes.

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Old 03-13-2016, 08:08 AM   #5
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^^This^^
Its a pretty straight forward install but its very time consuming. As for Bbk quality I sent my first set back because of quality issues and rust, and being a welder with over 20 years experience I can say the weld quality was less then decent......

Sent from the future.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:52 AM   #6
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I'd get the jba shorty or the hooker shorty. The jba is 409ss tubing with mild steel flanges. The hookers are 304ss flanges and tubing and will outlast the car.

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Old 03-13-2016, 11:31 AM   #7
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I'd get the jba shorty or the hooker shorty. The jba is 409ss tubing with mild steel flanges. The hookers are 304ss flanges and tubing and will outlast the car.

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Hooker headers for a V6?
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:44 AM   #8
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Looks like the JBAs at Auto Anything aren't part of the 20% off sale. $450 is a lot to swallow for shortys especially as the chrome BBKs are $247. No ceramic BBKs in stock there though.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Hooker headers for a V6?


I agree. Hooker headers for a V6?
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:34 PM   #10
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Thank you for the answers. Think I'll go ahead & give it a try. Don't see Hookers for a V6 Mustang, but did find Hooker Stainless axlebacks for a v6 Mustang. Have plenty of time since mine isn't a DD. Have all necessary tools/equip. Just have to say "git er done"
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:59 PM   #11
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Hooker headers for a V6?
Quote:
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I agree. Hooker headers for a V6?
Yep! I was surprised as well but 304ss definitely makes them,imo, the best option for those of us who DD the car in all conditions including salt.

https://www.holley.com/products/exha.../70303302-RHKR


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Old 03-13-2016, 06:55 PM   #12
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I used to think JBA wasnt any good due to them having the smallest primary size of the available. However, once i went back and did the math you can see that even the small(er) JBA still has more total area than even a 2.5" catback, i figured they're fine. That, plus the fact that the smaller primaries will likely keep exhaust gas velocity up and should show better gains than the other two.

Granted, this is all on paper and in a perfect world, but i wouldnt be opposed to getting the JBAs personally.
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:17 PM   #13
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Thanks Volt. I'm really liking the JBAs.
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Old 03-13-2016, 08:02 PM   #14
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Mariusvt
Thanks for the Hooker link. From pictures, may not be as hard to install as others & have lifetime warranty. You are correct, should last a looong time. Big $$ though. Wonder if I could find a senior discount somewhere?

Another question - do you (or how often) do you have to re-torque header bolts? Seems with being a PITA to install, routine re-torque would make this a questionable mod for a daily driver.

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2016, 05:12 AM   #15
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They definitely are the more expensive option but they are the only all stainless option.

As far as header torque, I'd check them after a few heat cycles, tighten as necessary and you're good to go. Shouldn't need to touch them again.

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Old 03-14-2016, 05:34 AM   #16
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Hooker headers, cool. That's a name i've heard since i was young. If i were looking for shorty headers, i would go with stainless steel. My BBK ceramic coated long tubes are looking a little rusty if you look at them laying under my Mustang with only around 15,000 miles on them
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:34 AM   #17
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The Hookers look and sound very good.
One thing that caught my attention was that they are the only ones that have a simple straight run. Whereas all the others found it necessary to do all those twists and turns. Supposedly for equal length or tuned lengths.
Click image for larger version

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Old 03-14-2016, 10:44 AM   #18
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Hooker and MAC have virtually no merge collector, which is a no go in my book. The merge collector really helps scavenging on the blow down pulse.

Here's an excerpt from a nice article i found explaining merge collectors:

The exhaust systems role in increasing engine performance centers around improving volumetric effi ciency. Volumetric
effi ciency (VE) refers to the ability of an engine to intake and expel gases (i.e.: air/fuel and exhaust gas), in relation to the
actual pumping volume of the engine. Free fl owing intake and exhaust systems help an engine to achieve this. Achieving
greater than 100% VE is done in part by optimizing exhaust gas scavenging to draw out exhaust and bring in air fuel mixture
during valve overlap. As the piston reaches the top of the exhaust stroke, it dwells as the crankshaft sweeps across the top
of its stroke. This is where valve overlap occurs. Before the piston reaches Top Dead Center, the intake valve begins to
open. The trick is to design the exhaust system so that the exhaust pulse (pressure wave) leaves behind a pressure drop
or vacuum to take advantage of the valve overlap. If successful the combustion chamber will exchange residual exhaust
gases for a fresh air/fuel mixture before the piston has any real effect on the intake charge.
To design a successful exhaust system or tuned header, the tube size and length are selected based on a list of engine
specifi cations and application characteristics. The tube size controls the speed of the exhaust pulse, too big and the velocity
(energy) is lost. The tube length is all about timing the pulse to synchronize with the cam in a specifi c RPM range.
At the collector, the timing of the pulses is crucial to scavenging. Imagine a four lane freeway on ramp merging into one
lane. If you get the timing and speed right, the pulses draft each other like stock cars at Daytona, increasing their speed.
This is where the Merge Collector comes in. It makes that transition from primary tube to collector as smooth as possible.
This reduction in turbulence helps maintain velocity through the collector, thus increasing the scavenging power of the
header system.


http://www.spdexhaust.com/pdfs/02-11...Collectors.pdf
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:46 PM   #19
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I've had BBK ceramic shorty's and now have the JBA titanium coated shorty headers. The JBA build quality is better along with there customer support. The titanium ceramic coating is on nice and thick, unlike the thin ceramic coating on the BBK's.
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:08 PM   #20
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Gentlemen one and all, I thank you. My conscience is clear. An extra 200 clams for the JBAs over the chrome BBKs was a tough pill to swallow but Volt, knower of all things good along with the rest of you (in no small measure David Young's rusty hue BBKs) tipped the scale. Titanium ceramic JBA shortys are ordered/ in bound and if my wife gets upset, I can blame each of you! (That never works with her but it's all part of the dance I make with the finance committee.) Details, pics and impressions to follow post 3-5 day delivery from California.

I'm also curious with the slightly smaller diameter tubes of the JBAs if install will be a tad easier (more clearance). Will definitely report on that the everyone.
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:15 PM   #21
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If it makes you feel better, the smaller runners will probably give you a little more back pressure for a bit more low end torque.

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Old 03-14-2016, 04:18 PM   #22
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Siber; yes; that definitely was in the front of my thinking. I'll never track the car so it's all about low and mid range to me. Smaller tubes should mean increased back pressure. The titanium ceramic gray coating is a new one on me. I think I'm going to try and sell it to the wife that they are supposed to match the paint on my car.
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:37 PM   #23
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Hampton CIT,
Will definitely be watching for install info. Thank you.

I spent several hours last night reading numerous comments on install & re-torque info on other forums. Almost talked myself out of them. I did however decide if I do decide to get them it will be JBA Titanium as well.

BTW how are the sway bars working out? Is over/under steer pretty much as stock only more roll resistance?
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:46 PM   #24
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Not seeing any real changes in understeer. Car rides stiffer and it seems to let the rear drift out a bit more but still very controlled. Frankly, I'm not sure if that is the bars or me being more aggressive because of the "presence" of the bars. For the money, they give me no complaints or regrets to voice.
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Old 03-14-2016, 05:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Siber; yes; that definitely was in the front of my thinking. I'll never track the car so it's all about low and mid range to me. Smaller tubes should mean increased back pressure. The titanium ceramic gray coating is a new one on me. I think I'm going to try and sell it to the wife that they are supposed to match the paint on my car.
Let me know how that works since I am Sterling Grey also.

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Old 03-14-2016, 09:40 PM   #26
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Hooker and MAC have virtually no merge collector, which is a no go in my book. The merge collector really helps scavenging on the blow down pulse.
Volt...
"The Hookers do have a merge collector. It may not be as large as the others.
They state this in their ad.
"Utilizes true mitered merge collectors designed to maximize exhaust velocity and scavenging resulting in a broad torque curve."
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:57 PM   #27
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Volt...
"The Hookers do have a merge collector. It may not be as large as the others.
They state this in their ad.
"Utilizes true mitered merge collectors designed to maximize exhaust velocity and scavenging resulting in a broad torque curve."
Yeah, anything that has pipes on one end and a common flange on the other is a merge collector, but those Hookers still lack any sort of "plenum" or "transition." Keep in mind that there are pieces inside that collector design of their's that force flow into the mid pipe at an angle. The lack of true plenum and short collector will cause turbulence at that joint.

Maybe i am wrong, they have been doing headers a hell of a lot longer than me, but in my mind they just built those to fit. This is a low HP gain, for a low volume car, that not many people mod to begin with. It seems like they just built something that fits.
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:54 AM   #28
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It also seems all of the shorty headers result in a similar gain. I remember seeing dynos from the Mac and bbk on people's cars and the gains were not drastically different. I think ultimately as long as you're getting rid of the stock cast piece you're moving in the right direction.

For me the only 2 legitimate options are the jba and hooker because they are both stainless. I like the titanium ceramic coating on the jbas but love that the hookers are entirely 304ss. It's a coin toss.

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Old 03-15-2016, 07:23 AM   #29
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It also seems all of the shorty headers result in a similar gain. I remember seeing dynos from the Mac and bbk on people's cars and the gains were not drastically different. I think ultimately as long as you're getting rid of the stock cast piece you're moving in the right direction.

For me the only 2 legitimate options are the jba and hooker because they are both stainless. I like the titanium ceramic coating on the jbas but love that the hookers are entirely 304ss. It's a coin toss.

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I like the fact that the JBAs have the ceramic coating over the stn stl. On the other hand , the Hookers do have a lifetime warranty.
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:59 AM   #30
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Gentlemen one and all, I thank you. My conscience is clear. An extra 200 clams for the JBAs over the chrome BBKs was a tough pill to swallow but Volt, knower of all things good along with the rest of you (in no small measure David Young's rusty hue BBKs) tipped the scale. Titanium ceramic JBA shortys are ordered/ in bound and if my wife gets upset, I can blame each of you! (That never works with her but it's all part of the dance I make with the finance committee.) Details, pics and impressions to follow post 3-5 day delivery from California.

I'm also curious with the slightly smaller diameter tubes of the JBAs if install will be a tad easier (more clearance). Will definitely report on that the everyone.
I'll take the blame. I get blamed for everything around my house that goes wrong anyway. Just tell your wife "David Young said to do it"
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:38 PM   #31
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Kudos to AM here on how they list products and take orders. When I go to order something there, they have a nifty little notation on their respective product pages that says "in stock" or "out of stock". Meanwhile at one of their competitors: Five days after placing my order for the JBAs with Autoanything.com (AM didn't carry the JBAs for our sixers) I get an email from them saying shipping delayed until "estimated April 1st".
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:49 PM   #32
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Mine shipped out immediately from JBA, they were dropped shipped. But I did go through Auto Anything like you did.
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Old 03-20-2016, 04:44 PM   #33
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Autoanything doesn't warehouse anything for the most part. Everything they sell drop ships from the manufacturers.

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Old 04-07-2016, 07:51 PM   #34
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Hi Hampton, it has been a while since you placed your order of the jba shorty headers, how is everything going? Any update?

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Old 04-08-2016, 09:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Hi Hampton, it has been a while since you placed your order of the jba shorty headers, how is everything going? Any update?

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I believe I saw in another thread they still haven't shipped.

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