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Old 04-11-2016, 09:27 AM   #36
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Hi guys, just a quick update - used the BG 44 stuff, no difference to the hesitation. I'm guessing there's too much junk built up on the intake valves. I'm going to take apart the intake manifold next and spray things out manually. I'll take some pics and post them for you guys

Hey, do guys know how to turn that motor manually? I'm going to rotate it so I can expose each intake valve and spray it with intake cleaner.

Any thoughts?


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You may have another problem other than intake valve carbon as the 44K should have worked in 1 tank. If you see enough carbon left on all 12 valves to fill a teaspoon or more that's too much.

Easy ways to turn engine over is wrench on crank pulley or turn rear wheel over with manual in high gear. Helps if spark plugs are out but you don't need to open valves. Spraying through ports and soaking overnight will work open or closed as fuel side is soaked.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:38 PM   #37
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You may have another problem other than intake valve carbon as the 44K should have worked in 1 tank. If you see enough carbon left on all 12 valves to fill a teaspoon or more that's too much.

Easy ways to turn engine over is wrench on crank pulley or turn rear wheel over with manual in high gear. Helps if spark plugs are out but you don't need to open valves. Spraying through ports and soaking overnight will work open or closed as fuel side is soaked.
Is there anything else you think I should be looking for? Maybe spark plugs? They're still original but I believe they're supposed to last until 100k miles
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:04 AM   #38
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Is there anything else you think I should be looking for? Maybe spark plugs? They're still original but I believe they're supposed to last until 100k miles
Spark plugs and related ignition parts are usually not a problem for light acceleration if they fire fine when using more power to climb hills in high gear at mid rpm. If they are original with 62k miles it still wouldn't hurt to change them. It's always possible someone already changed them with either the wrong heat range (too cold), wrong part or wrong gap.

It could also be a tune issue. The way I'd approach this is reading all the relevant ECU data like F/A ratio, ignition advance & MAP with my ScanGauge. Otherwise it's keep changing things which can get expensive. At some point a local tuning guru is the best way to go
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:14 AM   #39
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if I was taking the manifold off I'd at least look at the plugs...with 60K+ I'd be planning on putting new ones in esp since you have to take off the manifold to get to them.
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Old 04-12-2016, 06:38 PM   #40
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Yeah, I talked with a ford tech today that had a 2011 GT, he said it could be plugs as well. I'm just going to replace the old ones with new stock ones. That might be the issue. I'll do it this weekend and let you guys know


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Old 04-14-2016, 09:35 AM   #41
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Hi guys, just a quick update - used the BG 44 stuff, no difference to the hesitation. I'm guessing there's too much junk built up on the intake valves. I'm going to take apart the intake manifold next and spray things out manually. I'll take some pics and post them for you guys

Hey, do guys know how to turn that motor manually? I'm going to rotate it so I can expose each intake valve and spray it with intake cleaner.

Any thoughts?

After all that I ended up putting new spark plugs in and the hesitation went away. I guess they really don't last to 100K miles like Ford says. I also took at look at the intake valves after using the seafoam cleaner (the stuff you feed through the throttle body) and they're really clean. I remember looking at them last summer and they weren't anywhere near as clean as they are now, check out the attached pic. So going forward I'll use the seafoam stuff in the throttle body every 30K miles or so, even though I hate the hassle of squirting it in there.


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Old 04-14-2016, 06:53 PM   #42
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:43 AM   #43
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The valves themselves are really clean, this was after the seafoam spray? Do you have any before pics?
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:47 PM   #44
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I only have one from last year when I peeked into there. I can't remember if this was before or after I sprayed the valves manually with carb cleaner. there's a lot more crap at the base of the valve in this picture and that's like 20K miles ago.

I'll try to upload the pic later, it won't upload for some reason
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:44 PM   #45
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Spark plugs and related ignition parts are usually not a problem for light acceleration if they fire fine when using more power to climb hills in high gear at mid rpm. If they are original with 62k miles it still wouldn't hurt to change them. It's always possible someone already changed them with either the wrong heat range (too cold), wrong part or wrong gap.

It could also be a tune issue. The way I'd approach this is reading all the relevant ECU data like F/A ratio, ignition advance & MAP with my ScanGauge. Otherwise it's keep changing things which can get expensive. At some point a local tuning guru is the best way to go

Hey koryak, still having issues after replacing the spark plugs. Valves are really clean now. Can you fill me in on Ecu data? What to look for? I have a tuner that I can use for data and I also have the service manual. Plus a DVM as well. What should I be looking for on this?


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Old 05-19-2016, 07:43 AM   #46
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Hey koryak, still having issues after replacing the spark plugs. Valves are really clean now. Can you fill me in on Ecu data? What to look for? I have a tuner that I can use for data and I also have the service manual. Plus a DVM as well. What should I be looking for on this?


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The first thing I check is long term fuel trim (LTFT). It should be low single digits, ideally like 3 or - 2. Will run ok with higher deviation up to +15 to - 15 but this will indicate somethings not right like injectors or manifold air leak.

Your valve pics look very clean so no prob there - keep at it, I'm really curious what the fix is going to be
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:12 PM   #47
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Hi korak, I checked the LTFT with my tuner +1/-1, well within tolerances. What's next?


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Old 05-19-2016, 08:16 PM   #48
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In the Chevy world this is called cylinder deactivation. Unfortunately you can't change it.


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Old 05-20-2016, 12:49 AM   #49
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In the Chevy world this is called cylinder deactivation. Unfortunately you can't change it.


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IIRC, cylinder deactivation only occurs when cruising in order to conserve on gas. When accelerating, all cylinders are used.
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Old 05-20-2016, 04:45 PM   #50
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Your fuel trim is perfect! If you're getting that on both banks congrats on all the cleaning work. At light part throttle acceleration you should see the air/fuel ratio staying at 14 - 14.3 running on typical 10% ethanol gas. It will go up and down slightly but definitely not any different from just cruising. You can simulate light acceleration by holding steady speed going slightly uphill while reading A/F and look for any wider swings.

Interesting that for a while new spark plugs seemed to fix it. My gut feeling is something in your tune. Have you tried stock tune and intake recently?
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:23 PM   #51
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It's possible the spark plugs minimized it but didn't go away. It's back for sure though. I don't think it's the tune because I think I tried reverting to it and the issue was more pronounced. I'll try that tomorrow just for grins. Any other ideas?
I don't think it's the intake since its been on the car since 12k miles without issues. Plus I don't have the stock intake, didn't come with it


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Old 05-21-2016, 03:51 PM   #52
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Just throwing something out there, but maybe a bad coil? Does it happen in the same RPM area everytime?
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Old 05-21-2016, 06:23 PM   #53
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Hey Hawkstang, good point, it does happen in the same rpm range all the time. I could test the coil theory by borrowing Strange Mud's coils... You think he'd mind? .

Seriously, I can look at the service manual and see if there's tests for those. Probably some sort of static resistance test


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Old 05-21-2016, 06:29 PM   #54
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Hey Hawkstang, good point, it does happen in the same rpm range all the time. I could test the coil theory by borrowing Strange Mud's coils... You think he'd mind? .

Seriously, I can look at the service manual and see if there's tests for those. Probably some sort of static resistance test


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If it happens at the same point in the power band I think that sounds like a tune issue. You're coils are prob fine but might be worth checking. Usually if a coil is bad you'll get a code though.

You said you had a custom tune correct?
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Old 05-21-2016, 06:35 PM   #55
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Not a custom tune per se but an off the shelf Bama tune. I think I reverted it back to the stock tune in the past to test this but I'll try that again tomorrow to see what happens.


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Old 05-21-2016, 06:42 PM   #56
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Not a custom tune per se but an off the shelf Bama tune. I think I reverted it back to the stock tune in the past to test this but I'll try that again tomorrow to see what happens.


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Try this... return it to stock tune, then unplug your car battery for 20 mins, then test it.

If it still does it, use your SCT tuner and skip the bama tune and use the SCT to tune it. You will answer a serious of questions when you go this route, then it will tune your car. Then test it this way. If it happens on stock, SCT and Bama, you may have a more serious issue.

ALWAYS RETURN TO STOCK TUNE BEFORE UPDATING YOUR SCT.
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:04 AM   #57
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Hi koryak,

That sounds like a good idea, I'll try it today and see what happens. Here's a thought I had - there's a potentiometer above the gas pedal that actually operates the throttle. I tried cleaning it with tuner cleaner but couldn't access the brushes very well. It didn't idle well because the potentiometer was dirty, cleared it right up when I sprayed it with tuner cleaner. It's a nice theory but it wouldn't totally explain why it mostly happens when it's cold and only a bit while warm. I think the poor contact would be consistent wether it's cold or hot. If I get desperate I'll pull it out again and measure it with my DVM.

A question regarding the SCT tuner - I didn't know that could walk through steps so I could create my own tune? I thought the bama version was locked out to their versions only?


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Old 05-22-2016, 07:27 AM   #58
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Hi koryak,

That sounds like a good idea, I'll try it today and see what happens. Here's a thought I had - there's a potentiometer above the gas pedal that actually operates the throttle. I tried cleaning it with tuner cleaner but couldn't access the brushes very well. It didn't idle well because the potentiometer was dirty, cleared it right up when I sprayed it with tuner cleaner. It's a nice theory but it wouldn't totally explain why it mostly happens when it's cold and only a bit while warm. I think the poor contact would be consistent wether it's cold or hot. If I get desperate I'll pull it out again and measure it with my DVM.

A question regarding the SCT tuner - I didn't know that could walk through steps so I could create my own tune? I thought the bama version was locked out to their versions only?


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I'm not 100% on that but when I installed my sct tune I believe it gave me the option to pick a custom tune or just use SCT. Ill look into it.
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:14 PM   #59
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Your fuel trim is perfect! If you're getting that on both banks congrats on all the cleaning work. At light part throttle acceleration you should see the air/fuel ratio staying at 14 - 14.3 running on typical 10% ethanol gas. It will go up and down slightly but definitely not any different from just cruising. You can simulate light acceleration by holding steady speed going slightly uphill while reading A/F and look for any wider swings.

Interesting that for a while new spark plugs seemed to fix it. My gut feeling is something in your tune. Have you tried stock tune and intake recently?

Hi koryak,
Ok, tried taking it back to stock as hawkstang mentioned along with disconnecting the battery. Still has that weird surge.
Any other sensors you think should be tested? I can check the ignition coils with a static resistance check, but there's no way for me to test them under load where I wonder if one is failing.
Any other thoughts?
This is sort of fun in a way, the car stills runs so it's not an awful experience. It's like a little mystery or puzzle to solve and I know I'll eventually figure it out with all the guys on this forum


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Old 05-24-2016, 01:53 PM   #60
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Its a vvt issue. The VVT system has its own set of oil pressure regulators, and when oil isnt up to temp (when the car is cold...) there isnt enough pressure to advance the intake cam (which increases torque). My old miata suffered from this heavily, i basically couldnt give it over 1/2 throttle until the car was fully warm or it would buck and hesitate.

I dont know if yours are "defective" or what grade of oil you're running, or how cold it is there, but to me it sounds like a VVT issue.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:15 PM   #61
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Hi voltwing
I'm not sure if that's the problem because this started happening within then past 5 to 10k miles, not the entire life of the car. But I'm gonna look at it today.

Koryak,
Here's a new one - with the stock tune in place it actually bogged down when it was cold this morning. An actual bog like a carbureted motor when it's choking on gas. No codes or anything. Gonna keep looking on this


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Old 05-24-2016, 02:17 PM   #62
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I still am leaning toward a tune issue. Maybe take it to ford and have them reflash it?
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:23 PM   #63
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Again, the VVT has its own oil pressure regulators and solenoids, so if one of those started failing in the past few miles that could explain it.

It seems you're comfortable datalogging after skimming this thread. The Live link software will let you monitor desired VVT position as well as actual position. If the actuator is in fact failing then they wont match. If they do match then i'm wrong and you're back at square one anyways lol so its at least worth a shot.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:51 PM   #64
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My last car was a vvt too and it never had hesitation on acceleration, cold or otherwise. Until a coil went bad and then the engine light flashed repeatedly and it threw a code. I do notice my mustang shifts poorly on hard accels in the first couple mins of driving though, but never after it warms up

I did get rev hangs on occasion but never since uploading the sct tune.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

My last car was a vvt too and it never had hesitation on acceleration, cold or otherwise. Until a coil went bad and then the engine light flashed repeatedly and it threw a code. I do notice my mustang shifts poorly on hard accels in the first couple mins of driving though, but never after it warms up

I did get rev hangs on occasion but never since uploading the sct tune.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:59 PM   #65
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Again, the VVT has its own oil pressure regulators and solenoids, so if one of those started failing in the past few miles that could explain it.

It seems you're comfortable datalogging after skimming this thread. The Live link software will let you monitor desired VVT position as well as actual position. If the actuator is in fact failing then they wont match. If they do match then i'm wrong and you're back at square one anyways lol so its at least worth a shot.
ok, so I can activate the data logging function from the Bama tuner. I haven't done that before but I can figure it out. How long do I need to drive the car in order to data log it?
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:11 PM   #66
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ok, so I can activate the data logging function from the Bama tuner. I haven't done that before but I can figure it out. How long do I need to drive the car in order to data log it?
Just whenever the car is experiencing the problem.

Since you say you can datalog from the tuner, i am assuming you have an X4? Just make sure you have intake cam actual and intake cam desired selected and i can look at the logs for you, just follow these steps *Assuming the issue happens when the car is cold / first started*

1. from cold start the car.
2. Let the cat warm up finish (the revs start high when the car is first started, once they settle you can start driving).
3. After the cat warm up is complete start the datalog.
4. once the datalogger is rolling, start driving and attempt to replicate the conditions that cause the bucking / hesitation.
5. Once you're satisfied you have captured the event, you can stop the log.

I dont mind sifting through a few minutes of data, but try not to make like a 10 minute log lol. The SCT has a ridiculous record rate and that would be thousands and thousands of lines of data.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:19 AM   #67
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Just whenever the car is experiencing the problem.

Since you say you can datalog from the tuner, i am assuming you have an X4? Just make sure you have intake cam actual and intake cam desired selected and i can look at the logs for you, just follow these steps *Assuming the issue happens when the car is cold / first started*

1. from cold start the car.
2. Let the cat warm up finish (the revs start high when the car is first started, once they settle you can start driving).
3. After the cat warm up is complete start the datalog.
4. once the datalogger is rolling, start driving and attempt to replicate the conditions that cause the bucking / hesitation.
5. Once you're satisfied you have captured the event, you can stop the log.

I dont mind sifting through a few minutes of data, but try not to make like a 10 minute log lol. The SCT has a ridiculous record rate and that would be thousands and thousands of lines of data.

Hi voltwings,

This is perfect, I do have an x4. I'll do the data log Thursday or Friday morning and pm it to you as an attachment. Thanks so much for the help!


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Old 05-25-2016, 04:42 AM   #68
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:00 AM   #69
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Its a vvt issue. The VVT system has its own set of oil pressure regulators, and when oil isnt up to temp (when the car is cold...) there isnt enough pressure to advance the intake cam (which increases torque). My old miata suffered from this heavily, i basically couldnt give it over 1/2 throttle until the car was fully warm or it would buck and hesitate.

I dont know if yours are "defective" or what grade of oil you're running, or how cold it is there, but to me it sounds like a VVT issue.

Hi Voltwing,

One other thing, while driving it today after being warmed up fully it's still got a funny surging issue. It's much more noticeable with the stock tune than the Bama tune. I didn't have time data log it today but I'll try to get to it tomorrow morning. Should require only a few minutes of data logging for you to see the issue; I promise I won't make you slog through a ton of code. This is really interesting, thanks in advance for your detective skills!


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Old 05-25-2016, 11:49 AM   #70
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I am assuming Bama gave you a list of items they would like to see in the datalogs? Load, AFR/lambse, rpm... if you can, when you get that datalog, try to add the VVT PIDs to that list, dont just take a log with only the VVT PIDs selected lol. Thanks.
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