I think I finally figured out how to beat the Adaptive Learning - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 04-18-2016, 09:21 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
I think I finally figured out how to beat the Adaptive Learning

the last couple times I pulled fuse 47 it didn't seem to help at all, so I gave up on that. I've tried driving crazy hard for a couple days and nothing.

Then a couple days last week I drove in sport mode when on my 25 mile highway drive because jerks were lolly gagging in the passing lane and I had enough of that crap.

Today my Stang was like a rocket ship, even in normal D mode. I think if you drive in Sport mode once every 3 days or so it helps that stupid computer figure out that you want you Stang to drive like a Stang.

I can't think of anything else that would have woken it up and driving hard in D never really did it either. So it's sport mode for a short period at least every other day for this guy from now on.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-18-2016, 11:07 PM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
Shadetree43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NE Florida
Region: Florida
Posts: 181
I put a relay on my fuse 47. Think it was about $10.00 in parts. Every time engine shut down for 20-30 minutes it's just like pulling fuse 47 without any wear/tear on fuse or socket.
Works for me with no issues thus far for last 4 to 5 months.
I'm also usually in "S" mode in town anyway often manually (with the +\- button).
Shadetree43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2016, 11:18 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
The fuse 47 pull used to work for me but I think once I drove a couple of 20+ mile hwy trips on cruise it was right back to granny mode. And last couple times fuse 47 did nothing.

I'm telling you, I noticed a night and day difference after a couple days of S driving, so I'm going with that and leaving 47 alone from now on.

Also, S mode is sweet with good axle backs... Get that down-rev growl and pop. Well worth the crappy gas mileage. Lol
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-19-2016, 11:50 AM   #4
Evolution's Finest
Supporter
 
MustangDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Forest
Region: California
Posts: 726
Get a tune and you don't have to ever worry about fuse #47. I verified with MPT and fuse #47 has become a non-issue. I think most other tune companies have this handled as well
__________________
2013 V6 Auto Premium | Sterling Gray | Pony/Comfort/Security Packages
Borla S-Type AB, Airaid CAI, SR Performance STB, JLT Oil Separator, MPT Tuned, MMD Classic Louvers, Roush Upper & Lower Grilles, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport Comp-2 A/S Tires, Koni STR.T Shocks & Struts, SR Performance Lowering Springs, J&M Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Lines, BMR LCAs w/Brackets, BMR Panhard Rod Support, Whiteline Adj. Panhard Bar, Ford Racing Differential Finned Cover Plate, Philips X-tremeVision LED Fog Lamps, JMS PedalMax
MustangDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 12:20 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
I have a tune. The adaptive learning isnt part of the ecu so it still dimbs it down. I asked tuners if their tunes eliminated the adaptive learning and they couldnt answer for sure... Which means no in my book.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 12:34 PM   #6
Evolution's Finest
Supporter
 
MustangDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Forest
Region: California
Posts: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
I have a tune. The adaptive learning isnt part of the ecu so it still dimbs it down. I asked tuners if their tunes eliminated the adaptive learning and they couldnt answer for sure... Which means no in my book.
I got a solid "Yes" from MPT, but they said exactly how they got around it is proprietary which makes sense. Since I've been running this tune for 2 years, the adaptive learning has not been an issue. I don't know what tune you're running, but MPT has been spot on
__________________
2013 V6 Auto Premium | Sterling Gray | Pony/Comfort/Security Packages
Borla S-Type AB, Airaid CAI, SR Performance STB, JLT Oil Separator, MPT Tuned, MMD Classic Louvers, Roush Upper & Lower Grilles, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport Comp-2 A/S Tires, Koni STR.T Shocks & Struts, SR Performance Lowering Springs, J&M Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Lines, BMR LCAs w/Brackets, BMR Panhard Rod Support, Whiteline Adj. Panhard Bar, Ford Racing Differential Finned Cover Plate, Philips X-tremeVision LED Fog Lamps, JMS PedalMax
MustangDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 01:39 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
CyberCarnage12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ocala/Tampa
Region: Florida
Posts: 50
I pretty much drive in Sport mode all the time. What's the point in owning a mustang if you can't have fun every time you drive it.
CyberCarnage12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 02:32 PM   #8
Registered User
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Greensboro
Region: North Carolina
Posts: 7
Must be a AUTO thing ... lol
Jmarrow250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 02:34 PM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
CyberCarnage12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ocala/Tampa
Region: Florida
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmarrow250 View Post
Must be a AUTO thing ... lol
Lol yep, I have had manual mustangs before and loved them, but as much big city traffic as I deal with everyday, an Automatic is nice.
CyberCarnage12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 03:01 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangDawg View Post
I got a solid "Yes" from MPT, but they said exactly how they got around it is proprietary which makes sense. Since I've been running this tune for 2 years, the adaptive learning has not been an issue. I don't know what tune you're running, but MPT has been spot on
Good to know, I will be going MPT if I ever go custom. I dont have anything for performance mods so I just use the SCT can 91 tune, which has very firm shifts and much better compression than stock.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 12:46 PM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
thelastsumurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Region: Florida
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
Good to know, I will be going MPT if I ever go custom. I dont have anything for performance mods so I just use the SCT can 91 tune, which has very firm shifts and much better compression than stock.
What do you mean by compression?
thelastsumurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 12:58 PM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Higher compression ratio in the cumbustion chamber. That's part of how these tunes get you better performance, as I understand it.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 01:05 PM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
king_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Clarksville
Region: Tennessee
Posts: 737
Are you referring to the AF ratio?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2014 Oxford White 5.0 Premium

2015 Maroon Chevy Cruze LTZ
2011 Performance White V6 Premium SOLD
king_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 01:16 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Shadetree43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NE Florida
Region: Florida
Posts: 181
I thought compression was a fixed thing based on size of combustion chamber at TDC and amount of air/fuel in the combustion chamber? How can a tune change that?
With our variable cam timing, could a tune enable the intake valve to remain open a tad longer and take in more air/fuel?
Back in the day we used thinner head gasket, longer rods, taller pistons?. All hard physical stuff.
Shadetree43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 01:37 PM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
I'm fairly certian that the tunes adjust the compression. I higher compression requires a higher octane, so when you select a 93 octane tune, what its really doing is adjusting the compression ratio. It just requires you to use 93 octane as a result so you dont damage your engine.

But a tune expert (a legit one) would have to confirm this.

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

I'm fairly certian that the tunes adjust the compression. I higher compression requires a higher octane, so when you select a 93 octane tune, what its really doing is adjusting the compression ratio. It just requires you to use 93 octane as a result so you dont damage your engine.

But a tune expert (a legit one) would have to confirm this.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 02:04 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
king_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Clarksville
Region: Tennessee
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadetree43 View Post
I thought compression was a fixed thing based on size of combustion chamber at TDC and amount of air/fuel in the combustion chamber? How can a tune change that?
With our variable cam timing, could a tune enable the intake valve to remain open a tad longer and take in more air/fuel?
Back in the day we used thinner head gasket, longer rods, taller pistons?. All hard physical stuff.
I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

He's probably referring to how a tune changes timing and AF ratio, the heads don't magically change their size to change compression.
__________________
2014 Oxford White 5.0 Premium

2015 Maroon Chevy Cruze LTZ
2011 Performance White V6 Premium SOLD
king_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 03:22 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,440
He means dynamic compression, which is a result of playing with the VVT, as opposed to static compression which is a fixed ratio. I do believe there might be some confusion somewhere in there, but he's not technically wrong.

"Technically" however, increases in cylinder pressure, not strictly "compression" are what result in higher horsepower and the need for higher octane.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 03:27 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
"Compression" is the word used by the tuners so that is what I'm going by. I do believe you can tune compression, but I could be wrong... Which I have always stated. So yes, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about.

I do however know that tuners dont use magic or fairy dust to make your car perform different, so there's a chance that you dont know what your talking about either.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 03:29 PM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
He means dynamic compression, which is a result of playing with the VVT, as opposed to static compression which is a fixed ratio. I do believe there might be some confusion somewhere in there, but he's not technically wrong.

"Technically" however, increases in cylinder pressure, not strictly "compression" are what result in higher horsepower and the need for higher octane.
Yes, what he said. I'm not as well versed in science as Volt, sorry.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 04:36 PM   #20
Evolution's Finest
Supporter
 
MustangDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Forest
Region: California
Posts: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
He means dynamic compression, which is a result of playing with the VVT, as opposed to static compression which is a fixed ratio. I do believe there might be some confusion somewhere in there, but he's not technically wrong.

"Technically" however, increases in cylinder pressure, not strictly "compression" are what result in higher horsepower and the need for higher octane.
Nicely put, thank you.
__________________
2013 V6 Auto Premium | Sterling Gray | Pony/Comfort/Security Packages
Borla S-Type AB, Airaid CAI, SR Performance STB, JLT Oil Separator, MPT Tuned, MMD Classic Louvers, Roush Upper & Lower Grilles, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport Comp-2 A/S Tires, Koni STR.T Shocks & Struts, SR Performance Lowering Springs, J&M Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Lines, BMR LCAs w/Brackets, BMR Panhard Rod Support, Whiteline Adj. Panhard Bar, Ford Racing Differential Finned Cover Plate, Philips X-tremeVision LED Fog Lamps, JMS PedalMax
MustangDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:09 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
Shadetree43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NE Florida
Region: Florida
Posts: 181
Believe a tune will definitely change timing which will drive the required octane change.
Thanks for all the insight.
Shadetree43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 10:30 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Fellas, you can alter the compression ratio via the ECU (a tune)...

"In almost all cases, people are interested in increasing the power output of an engine. Many well tried and tested techniques have been devised to achieve this, but all essentially operate to increase the rate (and to a lesser extent efficiency) of combustion in a given engine. This is achieved by putting more air/fuel mixture into the engine, increasing compression ratio (requires higher octane gas) burning it more rapidly, and getting rid of the waste products more rapidly - this increases volumetric efficiency. "

Now, you can give me all the BS semantics you want, but giving me crap over using the term "compression" was a little ignorant. I don't always know what I'm talking about first-hand, but I do know how to research and read.
Hawkstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 07:57 AM   #23
Evolution's Finest
Supporter
 
MustangDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Forest
Region: California
Posts: 726
This thread has gotten totally off subject, but this should get interesting
__________________
2013 V6 Auto Premium | Sterling Gray | Pony/Comfort/Security Packages
Borla S-Type AB, Airaid CAI, SR Performance STB, JLT Oil Separator, MPT Tuned, MMD Classic Louvers, Roush Upper & Lower Grilles, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport Comp-2 A/S Tires, Koni STR.T Shocks & Struts, SR Performance Lowering Springs, J&M Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Lines, BMR LCAs w/Brackets, BMR Panhard Rod Support, Whiteline Adj. Panhard Bar, Ford Racing Differential Finned Cover Plate, Philips X-tremeVision LED Fog Lamps, JMS PedalMax
MustangDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 09:12 AM   #24
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,440
The below excerpt is taken from: Static Vs Dynamic Compression Ratio | Piston Ratio


Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) is an important concept in high performance engines. Determining what the compression ratio is after the intake valve closes provides valuable information about how the engine will perform with a particular cam and octane.


Definition: The Compression Ratio (CR) of an engine is the ratio of the cylinder volume compared to the combustion chamber volume. A cylinder with 10 units of volume (called the sweep volume) and a chamber with a volume of 1 has a 10:1 compression ratio. Static Compression Ratio (SCR) is the ratio most commonly referred to. It is derived from the sweep volume of the cylinder using the full crank stroke (BDC to TDC). Dynamic Compression Ratio, on the other hand, uses the position of the piston at intake valve closing rather than BDC of the crank stroke to determine the sweep volume of the cylinder.

The difference between the two can be substantial. For example, with a cam that closes the intake valve at 70º ABDC, the piston has risen 0.9053" from BDC in a stock rod 350 at the intake closing point. This decreases the sweep volume of the cylinder considerably, reducing the stroke length by almost an inch. Thereby reducing the compression ratio. This is the only difference between calculating the SCR and the DCR. All other values used in calculating the CR are the same. Note that the DCR is always lower than the SCR.

Dynamic compression ratio should not to be confused with cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressures change almost continuously due to many factors including RPM, intake manifold design, head port volume and efficiency, overlap, exhaust design, valve timing, throttle position, and a number of other factors. DCR is derived from measured or calculated values that are the actual dimensions of the engine. Therefore, unless variable cam timing is used, just like the static compression ratio, the Dynamic Compression Ratio, is fixed when the engine is built and never changes during the operation of the engine.


In our case, the DCR is not fixed because we do have the ability to adjust when the intake valve opens / closes.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 10:05 AM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
thelastsumurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Region: Florida
Posts: 371
Yea, old/long time drag racers have known this for a long time. that's why we get high lift cams with long duration.
__________________
'16 Eco-Boost Premium, White, Performance Pkg, 6R80 (again), Pwr Ebony Lthr with Nether Region Cooling, Adaptive Cruise Control, Enhanced Security Pkg., Reverse Park Assist., Big Worm OTT Graphix.

2014 GT Premium 200A, Black on black , leather , 6R80, Nav, Security. Pro Cal, HT catback exhaust 12.54@112
thelastsumurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 04:35 PM   #26
Registered Member
Regular
 
Shadetree43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NE Florida
Region: Florida
Posts: 181
Thank you for the explanation of Static Vs Dynamic Compression Ratio | Piston Ratio Voltwings.
VVT is smoke & mirrors to an old guy like me.
Guess I'll just enjoy the result without understanding completely how it works.
Thanks again & I certainly did not mean to offend anyone, was just trying to understand.
Shadetree43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 09:12 AM   #27
Registered Member
Regular
 
iguanaman3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bokeelia
Region: Florida
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
The below excerpt is taken from: Static Vs Dynamic Compression Ratio | Piston Ratio


Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) is an important concept in high performance engines. Determining what the compression ratio is after the intake valve closes provides valuable information about how the engine will perform with a particular cam and octane.


Definition: The Compression Ratio (CR) of an engine is the ratio of the cylinder volume compared to the combustion chamber volume. A cylinder with 10 units of volume (called the sweep volume) and a chamber with a volume of 1 has a 10:1 compression ratio. Static Compression Ratio (SCR) is the ratio most commonly referred to. It is derived from the sweep volume of the cylinder using the full crank stroke (BDC to TDC). Dynamic Compression Ratio, on the other hand, uses the position of the piston at intake valve closing rather than BDC of the crank stroke to determine the sweep volume of the cylinder.

The difference between the two can be substantial. For example, with a cam that closes the intake valve at 70º ABDC, the piston has risen 0.9053" from BDC in a stock rod 350 at the intake closing point. This decreases the sweep volume of the cylinder considerably, reducing the stroke length by almost an inch. Thereby reducing the compression ratio. This is the only difference between calculating the SCR and the DCR. All other values used in calculating the CR are the same. Note that the DCR is always lower than the SCR.

Dynamic compression ratio should not to be confused with cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressures change almost continuously due to many factors including RPM, intake manifold design, head port volume and efficiency, overlap, exhaust design, valve timing, throttle position, and a number of other factors. DCR is derived from measured or calculated values that are the actual dimensions of the engine. Therefore, unless variable cam timing is used, just like the static compression ratio, the Dynamic Compression Ratio, is fixed when the engine is built and never changes during the operation of the engine.


In our case, the DCR is not fixed because we do have the ability to adjust when the intake valve opens / closes.
This may be true but the 10.5 to 1 compression ratio that the cyclone has cannot be increased by valve timing only decreased since that number is derived from the full piston stroke. It is mostly spark timing changes that increase octane requirements in a tune not increases in compression. That is why 3V owners have high octane tunes also. They don't have VVT.
iguanaman3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 11:35 AM   #28
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,440
You're correct about ignition timing being the leading factor in needing higher octane, i was just trying to address where the confusion was coming from earlier in the thread. The 3v does have VVT btw.
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 11:49 AM   #29
Registered Member
Regular
 
iguanaman3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bokeelia
Region: Florida
Posts: 326
Sorry about that. I should have said 2V then. I don't know much about the last generation motors.
iguanaman3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 11:56 AM   #30
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,440
Voltwings is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Finally figured out the problem.. sLbxO143 General Mustang Discussion 2 02-02-2013 10:51 AM
Adaptive learning? Am3gross 2011-2014 Mustang GT 3 08-18-2012 03:58 PM
I think the wife figured it out Gconn007 2011-2014 Mustang GT 33 06-05-2011 05:45 AM
Finally figured out the deal with my car. Zim 1979-1995 Mustang GT 14 09-19-2005 09:49 AM

» Like Us On Facebook



01:21 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.