Oil Catch Can - Oil levels over time - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 06-19-2016, 08:33 AM   #1
Evolution's Finest

Supporter
 
Hampton CIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Williamsburg
Region: Virginia
Posts: 527
Oil Catch Can - Oil levels over time

So with all the talk over the years about oil breakdown, I started measuring how much oil was captured in my oil catch can over time. The logic is as oil life increases it looses viscosity and burns off at a higher rate.

I run Royal Purple 5w-20 in my sixer. Readings weren't shocking but here they are:

1k miles = .3 oz
2k miles = .3 oz
3k miles = .3 oz
4k miles = .3 oz
5k miles = .3 oz

With synthetic, I'm speculating the oil will begin to show an increase of breakdown over the next few thousand miles however, I can't take it. My regular schedule of changes is at 5,500 miles so it's time.
__________________
2016 Premium Eco w/ PP - Roush Quarter Window Scoops, Side Scoops, Rear Spoiler; Modded GT Mesh Grilles; FP Strut Tower Brace; Eibach Pro-Kit Springs; Steeda IRS Bushings; BMR Billet Delrin/Spherical Vertical Links; Mishimoto Oil Separator; MAPerformance CAI; Mishimoto Intercooler/Aluminum Charge Pipes; Turbosmart Kompact Dual Port BOV; Turbosmart IWG75 Wastegate (10 PSI); Mishimoto Coolant Tank; JLT Engine Cover; Mishimoto Downpipe with modded MBRP XP Catbacks for TRUE 3" exhaust from turbo to tips; Drilled/Slotted Brake Rotors
Hampton CIT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-19-2016, 10:22 AM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
king_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Clarksville
Region: Tennessee
Posts: 737
Why don't you just change the oil at 3k miles so you have more peace of mind?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2014 Oxford White 5.0 Premium

2015 Maroon Chevy Cruze LTZ
2011 Performance White V6 Premium SOLD
king_13 is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 11:20 AM   #3
Evolution's Finest
Supporter
 
MustangDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Forest
Region: California
Posts: 725
__________________
2013 V6 Auto Premium | Sterling Gray | Pony/Comfort/Security Packages
Borla S-Type AB, Airaid CAI, SR Performance STB, JLT Oil Separator, MPT Tuned, MMD Classic Louvers, Roush Upper & Lower Grilles, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport Comp-2 A/S Tires, Koni STR.T Shocks & Struts, SR Performance Lowering Springs, J&M Stainless Steel Teflon Brake Lines, BMR LCAs w/Brackets, BMR Panhard Rod Support, Whiteline Adj. Panhard Bar, Ford Racing Differential Finned Cover Plate, Philips X-tremeVision LED Fog Lamps, JMS PedalMax
MustangDawg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-19-2016, 11:53 AM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton CIT View Post
So with all the talk over the years about oil breakdown, I started measuring how much oil was captured in my oil catch can over time. The logic is as oil life increases it looses viscosity and burns off at a higher rate.

I run Royal Purple 5w-20 in my sixer. Readings weren't shocking but here they are:

1k miles = .3 oz
2k miles = .3 oz
3k miles = .3 oz
4k miles = .3 oz
5k miles = .3 oz

With synthetic, I'm speculating the oil will begin to show an increase of breakdown over the next few thousand miles however, I can't take it. My regular schedule of changes is at 5,500 miles so it's time.
I run RP as well and used to go every 5k, but that was when the 5k was all city miles. Now I work out of town and have 50 miles of highway m-f so Im going to monitor it closely and aim for 8k.

So far Im at 6k and have yet to burn a drop plus color is still solid. I also monitor my cyl head temp closely and still running at 205 even in 100 degree heat.

Bottom line is RP is the real deal!
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 12:51 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,439
When oil breaks down, it not only burns off due to being less viscous, but it also doesnt lubricate or protect as well. 8k is a pretty normal interval, but for real peace of mind you could do a blackstone lab test and they can tell you for certain.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

BTW, oil wont impact cylinder head temp, thats measuring coolant


Quote:
Originally Posted by king_13 View Post
Why don't you just change the oil at 3k miles so you have more peace of mind?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because that is a massive waist of money.
Voltwings is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:26 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
When oil breaks down, it not only burns off due to being less viscous, but it also doesnt lubricate or protect as well. 8k is a pretty normal interval, but for real peace of mind you could do a blackstone lab test and they can tell you for certain.

Blackstone Labs

BTW, oil wont impact cylinder head temp, thats measuring coolant




Because that is a massive waist of money.
Btw, you are dead wrong. Before I switched to RP I was averaging 217 degrees, with peak at 225. After RP I am ave 205 degrees with peak at 214. Less friction equal less heat, it's pretty common sense.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I dont put as much faith in your "science" so respectfully do me a favor and refrain from trying to tell me Im wrong. It'll save us both some pain and suffering.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:56 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
king_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Clarksville
Region: Tennessee
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Because that is a massive waist of money.
But changes at 5.5k aren't a waste? Especially running a quality synthetic.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2014 Oxford White 5.0 Premium

2015 Maroon Chevy Cruze LTZ
2011 Performance White V6 Premium SOLD
king_13 is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 01:58 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Also, changing ones oil 2x as often does not equate to a "massive" waste of money. You are talking maybe $100 a year, around the price of Netflix. Is it necessary? Probably not. Is it wrong to want to maximize protection of your engine? Nope.

As far as the "science" goes, can high end syns protect up to 10k miles? Sure... in a lab. BUT that doesn't take into account the amount a dirt and harmful crud that gets into your oil in that amount of real world time, as a filter can only do so much. Personally, I think anyone going 10k or more between oil changes is simply asking for trouble down the road.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 02:03 PM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
Btw, you are dead wrong. Before I switched to RP I was averaging 217 degrees, with peak at 225. After RP I am ave 205 degrees with peak at 214. Less friction equal less heat, it's pretty common sense.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I dont put as much faith in your "science" so respectfully do me a favor and refrain from trying to tell me Im wrong. It'll save us both some pain and suffering.
I try really hard to do a few things on this forum.
1. Be respectful, and quite frankly some of you make that really hard.
2. Not talk out of my *** if i can help it, and i think i've proven that time and time again here, as i always post links and documents to support what i have to say. I dont expect people to take my word for anything, same as i dont take other peoples without being shown first.
3. Debate, not argue. I have admitted, on well more than one occasion when i am wrong, but it goes back to number 2; you have to prove me wrong first.

That being said, i'm going to try real hard to not have words with you right now and keep this thread on track, but for some reason you just enjoy being a jackass (broke my first rule #1, sue me).

Ford removed the water temp sensor from the thermostat and switched to the "cylinder head temperature" sensors instead on the 3.7 and 5.0. You can find information on their function here:
http://www.mustangevolution.com/foru...lipboard01.jpg

I will type out the excerpt in question though: The CHT sensor is installed in the cylinder head and measures the metal temperature.

I was under the impression it was in a water jacket, and i was wrong. However, let's continue: The CHT sensor provides complete engine temperature information, and is used to infer coolant temperature. So i guess i was half right, its main purpose is to more or less measure coolant temp, so that is the displayed value you are seeing when using the display.

We can take it one step further though and use a little "science" you put so little faith in. Since the sensor does in fact just measure the temperature of the metal, we can use a little "common sense" and assume it is some sort of average of oil temps and coolant temps correct? The thermostat (yes, i am assuming yours is stock) is set to open at 188 and is fully open at 204, so i will assume for normal daily driving your coolant is in the 190-205 ball park. To average 217 temps with 204* coolant means your oil was in the 230* ball park range. To then be averaging 205 displayed temps, and us still assuming 204* coolant means your oil temps are now 206*... i don't think royal purple dropped your temps 30*, nor do i think you're cruising oil temps are 206*. But what do i know, all i am doing is assuming your information is 100% correct and crunching some numbers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by king_13 View Post
But changes at 5.5k aren't a waste? Especially running a quality synthetic.
It probably still is, just less so. Amsoil suggests 10k change intervals, but i still dont trust that, so i very well may be wasting money as well. I have seen one or two articles that suggest the majority of the engine's wear occurs right when the oil is changed, so changing too frequently can actually "wear" the engine more. Not sure how much stock i put in that either, but i am following it just to see what comes of it.
Voltwings is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 02:31 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Good lord, just proves "research" can't replace intelligence or common sense.

And the fact that you feel the need to call people names shows your true color, Volt. See every forum has a guy like you. Long (and you take the cake on LONG posts) drawn out posts containing copy and pastes from others research, trying so desperately to be the forum champ. Give it a rest, state your OPINION without making it sound like hard facts and relax. You might find it much less frustrating on here.

That said, I couldn't care less what your predictable long winded reply says... friction leads to heat, heat is displaced throughout the engine block, less friction means less heat. Man, get your nose out of google for 5 seconds and use your brain that God gave you.

As for your comment "quite frankly some of you make that really hard"... get off your high horse. You're no better than any member on here and frankly you get to be pretty unbearable yourself. Nobody likes a know-it-all, something that your parents never taught you apparently.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 02:34 PM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Changing the oil too frequently leads to wear... oh brother. Dude, you are living proof that overusing the internet is NOT a good idea. Apparently there is no "science" to tell someone the obvious... you can find ANYTHING on the internet to stake some claim or another. Common sense, bro... look it up.

I am predicting no less than a 2,000 word reply. Odds makers?
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:00 PM   #12
Evolution's Finest

Supporter
 
Hampton CIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Williamsburg
Region: Virginia
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
I try really hard to do a few things on this forum.
1. Be respectful, and quite frankly some of you make that really hard.
2. Not talk out of my *** if i can help it, and i think i've proven that time and time again here, as i always post links and documents to support what i have to say. I dont expect people to take my word for anything, same as i dont take other peoples without being shown first.
3. Debate, not argue. I have admitted, on well more than one occasion when i am wrong, but it goes back to number 2; you have to prove me wrong first.
+1 Volt. For my part, I always appreciate your experience and expertise.
Hampton CIT is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:11 PM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton CIT View Post
+1 Volt. For my part, I always appreciate your experience and expertise.
Voltwings is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:16 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
And the fact that you feel the need to call people names shows your true color, Volt. See every forum has a guy like you. Long (and you take the cake on LONG posts) drawn out posts containing copy and pastes from others research, trying so desperately to be the forum champ. Give it a rest, state your OPINION without making it sound like hard facts and relax. You might find it much less frustrating on here.
During daily driving conditions where rpms rarely exceed 3500 give or take, i am willing to bet the heat from combustion > the heat from friction. Opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
Changing the oil too frequently leads to wear... oh brother. Dude, you are living proof that overusing the internet is NOT a good idea. Apparently there is no "science" to tell someone the obvious... you can find ANYTHING on the internet to stake some claim or another. Common sense, bro... look it up.

I am predicting no less than a 2,000 word reply. Odds makers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
I have seen one or two articles that suggest the majority of the engine's wear occurs right when the oil is changed, so changing too frequently can actually "wear" the engine more. Not sure how much stock i put in that either, but i am following it just to see what comes of it.
Reading is your friend.

Total word count: 31
Voltwings is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton CIT View Post
+1 Volt. For my part, I always appreciate your experience and expertise.
I've got a question for you and this is 100% non confrotational or sarcastic... What in your opinion qualifies him as an "expert"?

I ask because over the last few weeks he has been dead wrong with some of his factual claims. He stated the sct tuner was a "device only capable of transferring a custom tune and has no tuning capability". FALSE. He stated that compression cannot be changed by a tune. FALSE. And now he's saying engine oil doesnt affect cyl head heat. FALSE.

I seriously would have zero problem with the guy if he didnt post as if everything he says is absolute fact. But I get really tired of him telling me Im wrong with a little winky face, when he obviously is clueless on certain subjects.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:19 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
During daily driving conditions where rpms rarely exceed 3500 give or take, i am willing to bet the heat from combustion > the heat from friction. Opinion.





Reading is your friend.

Total word count: 31
You would lose that bet.

And reading can be your enemy, as you have so painfully proven time and time again. Winky, winky.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:27 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
Voltwings's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Houston
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkstang View Post
I've got a question for you and this is 100% non confrotational or sarcastic... What in your opinion qualifies him as an "expert"?

I ask because over the last few weeks he has been dead wrong with some of his factual claims. 1. He stated the sct tuner was a "device only capable of transferring a custom tune and has no tuning capability". FALSE. 2. He stated that compression cannot be changed by a tune. FALSE. 3. And now he's saying engine oil doesnt affect cyl head heat. FALSE.

I seriously would have zero problem with the guy if he didnt post as if everything he says is absolute fact. But I get really tired of him telling me Im wrong with a little winky face, when he obviously is clueless on certain subjects.
1. It doesnt, it is an interface. You can adjust minor things like gear ratio, and if your tuner allows, a degree of timing or so, but for the most part it relies on the actual SCT tuning software... Maybe it offers more than i am aware of or more than i mentioned, but you certainly cant sit there and write a tune from the device...

2. It 100% cannot... cam overlap with VVT can change dynamic compression, but not static. I have been tuning for years and i know that 100% to be a fact.

3. Defiantly did not say that either. You'd know that if you bothered to read my response.

BTW the winky face is meant to be a friendly "BTW," not derogatory. I apologize if you misunderstood that, but if people disagreeing with you ruffles you this much, the internet is no place for you my friend. This is a forum, by its very definition it is a place for discussion. If i disagree with something, i say so, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, we find fact, and that is how questions get answered, opinions are useless.
Voltwings is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:32 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Wow, ignorant and unwilling to admit you are wrong. The ignorance is understandable, but it says a lot about the man that cant admit when they are wrong.

Good luck with that and I hope you are getting whatever it is you need by posing as a expert on forums.

Take care bro. I got better things to do. Winky, winky.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:41 PM   #19
Evolution's Finest

Supporter
 
Hampton CIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Williamsburg
Region: Virginia
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton CIT View Post
So with all the talk over the years about oil breakdown, I started measuring how much oil was captured in my oil catch can over time. The logic is as oil life increases it looses viscosity and burns off at a higher rate.

I run Royal Purple 5w-20 in my sixer. Readings weren't shocking but here they are:

1k miles = .3 oz
2k miles = .3 oz
3k miles = .3 oz
4k miles = .3 oz
5k miles = .3 oz

With synthetic, I'm speculating the oil will begin to show an increase of breakdown over the next few thousand miles however, I can't take it. My regular schedule of changes is at 5,500 miles so it's time.
Putting the thread back on track... If anyone has similar data to share, pleaae do.
Hampton CIT is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:16 PM   #20
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
Ok I have a little time to play Volts game. lol

From Greg Raven, internet oil expert:

Keep the Engine Cool

"Because only about 60 percent of the engine cooling is handled by the radiator and coolant, the other 40 percent (more in an air-cooled engine) must be taken care of by the engine oil. The combustion process takes place at about 2000 to 3000 degrees F, which can heat pistons and valves to 1000 degrees F in extreme cases. In pistons, much of this heat travels down the connecting rods and affects the bearings. Since tin and lead, two common bearing materials, soften drastically around 350 degrees F and melt at 450 degrees F and 620 degrees F (respectively), it is important for the oil to transfer excess heat away from the bearings as quickly as possible. In valves, the long, thin valve stem is more easily stretched when hot as the valve spring pulls the valve tight against the seat. Too much stretch, and valve clearances disappear and valves and seats burn."

So darn, I guess I was right that engine oil affects cyl head temps as well as general transferred engine temps. How did I know this without research? Because I monitored my engine temp, switch to RP and immediately noted long term consistent drops in engine temp. But I know Volt will come back with some twist on his statement so that he is "technically" not wrong.

Also, from TheTruthAboutCars.com:

"SCT is one of the larger software and support providers. Their work is suitable for a farrago of fuel-injected American vehicles. Their plug-and-play tuners for 1996 and newer vehicles is ideal for your average horsepower junky seeking a quick fix. Custom packages installed on your race-ready laptop are also yours for the asking. Between these options lies a one shot, custom-tune performed by an SCT licensed dyno tuner specifically for your vehicle. Bingo."

There you go. SCT out of the box can and does TUNE your car. But how did I know this without researching? Because I did it myself. Chose my octane (which is necessary because it adjusts your COMPRESSION ratio - which is what I was referring to), shift firmness, redline, basically everything "custom" tunes ask you to answer. My Mustang's performance was significantly different after just the SCT box tune. Sometimes DOING is your friend as well.

I hope you have found some of this info enlightening, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I've never once seen you admit you were wrong about anything on here, so I'm not expecting any miracles.

Furthermore, this kind of anal retentive posting is too boring and time consuming for me, so in the future I will leave it to Volt. I had to try it at least once before I could confirm that it's a total waste of time.
Hawkstang is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:23 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
king_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Clarksville
Region: Tennessee
Posts: 737
Oil Catch Can - Oil levels over time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampton CIT View Post
Putting the thread back on track... If anyone has similar data to share, pleaae do.
I think you must have missed my question, but why don't you change your oil at 3k instead if you're worried about the oil going bad? It's the tried and true method, and any quick lube shop will provide a sticker to remind you to come in at the 3k mark.

On an unrelated note, tuners don't change compression. Otherwise, show me how so I can lower it on my Coyote and push an ungodly amount of boost. I'd pay you what I'd spend on low compression heads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2014 Oxford White 5.0 Premium

2015 Maroon Chevy Cruze LTZ
2011 Performance White V6 Premium SOLD
king_13 is offline  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:26 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Hawkstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sioux City
Region: Iowa
Posts: 1,273
From what I have read they change the compression ratio. If the sources are wrong I apologize.

And I agree there is nothing wrong with changing oil every 3k, especially if you drive agressive. It may be overkill, but it's a cheap preventative measure so no harm imo.
Hawkstang is offline  
Closed Thread

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 V6 Mustang

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
oil levels brian94gt 1979-1995 Mustang GT 8 10-29-2011 10:41 PM
Sound Levels - Stock Exhaust Vs Roush or Borla mikona 2011-2014 Mustang GT 19 10-28-2011 12:13 PM
Mississippi River Levels Alscobra The Bar 10 05-12-2011 10:13 PM
Wrong on so many levels Monkey The Bar 5 08-05-2003 04:04 PM

» Like Us On Facebook



07:41 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.